"Soft roader" for towing

BrianD3

I need a diesel 4wd with a commercial body for towing a boat and light off roading. For licence reasons, the max gross weight is 2300 kg which rules out Landcruisers, Discoverys and the Hyundai Santa Fe etc.

At the same time 4wd and decent traction are needed for slipways etc. I don't think any of the options have low ratio but I don't think its essential.

I was thinking of the following:

1) Nissan Xtrail - seems best match. 2000 kg tow weight which is more than enough.

2) Ford Kuga

3) Toyota Rav4 - doesn't seem to be available in commerical

4) Honda CRV

5) Landrover Freelander

Anyone got any advice? Do any of them have a significantly better 4wd system than the others? Am I right to favour the Xtrail?

doctorchopper

why do you have a 2300 kg restriction, should be 3500kg should it not?

_Conrad_

How big is the boat?


out of that list avoid the kuga and crv if you want a 4x4 that will behave like one, as they're not anywhere near proper 4x4s, they're cars dressed up as them, you'd be better off getting a 4wd Legacy or forester in that case if you just wanted grip and reasonable power.

I don't know the newest x trail too well but if it's like the older ones then it's probably still among the most rugged of the "softroader" class, and having a big max towing rating is good as you know it should handle weights below that with ease.


the freelander is probably a bit better in the 4x4 side of things but not so much in reliability/hassle stakes


For driving off road, light or not, a "real" offroader like a landcruiser or defender will massively outdo any of the softroaders

colm_mcm

If the OP can afford a Kuga, I'd assume that it's the much better Freelander 2 he's looking at?

BrianD3

_Conrad_ wrote: »

How big is the boat?


out of that list avoid the kuga and crv if you want a 4x4 that will behave like one, as they're not anywhere near proper 4x4s, they're cars dressed up as them, you'd be better off getting a 4wd Legacy or forester in that case if you just wanted grip and reasonable power.

I don't know the newest x trail too well but if it's like the older ones then it's probably still among the most rugged of the "softroader" class, and having a big max towing rating is good as you know it should handle weights below that with ease.


the freelander is probably a bit better in the 4x4 side of things but not so much in reliability/hassle stakes


For driving off road, light or not, a "real" offroader like a landcruiser or defender will massively outdo any of the softroaders

Thanks for that, the Ford Kuga actually has a slightly higher towing capacity than the Xtrail - 2100 kg for the Kuga.

When you say the Kuga and CRV are far from a proper 4x4s can you elaborate - is it the type of 4wd, the transmission settings, the ground clearance, underbody protection etc. In what way is the Xtrail better?

I didn't mention any Subarus as I don't think they are available with a van body.

Yeah I was talking about the Freelander II but I'm not sure if it comes with a van body either.

PS boat trailer is about 1000 kg laden

BrianD3

I just checked some Freelander II specs - its max gross weight is 2505 kg. So that's off the list, too heavy.

colm_mcm

Can you explain the 2300kg thing?
The freelander weighs about 1700kg

BrianD3

Can you explain the 2300kg thing?

Design gross vehicle weight for licence purposes. The freelander weighs ~1750 kg but its DGVW is stated as 2505 kg (although I have also seen its max payload stated as 505 kg which doesn't seem to tally with the unladen weight and DGVW)

Assuming a 2505 kg DGVW, if I then tow a 1000 kg DGVW trailer I'm over the 3500 kg limit for B licences.

I am insisting on max of 2300 kg DGVW so that I'm comfortably within this limit and have some leeway for towing a heavier trailer if necessary.

101sean

This size of 4x4 is a bit of a crossover area with a mixture of proper 4x4s and those that are not much more than a car with all wheel drive and raised suspension. Out of all of those listed, the Freelander 2 is the only fully off roadable 4x4 with the RAV4 and Xtrail hanging on it's coat tails.

Built new as commercial you're probably only going to find the Xtrail and Freelander available. Weight wise you're going to struggle with all of them.

Are you sure you area reading the rules correctly, it's a very confusing area? Earthmovers magazine did a very good article on towing law a couple months ago that still left me scratching my head, it was on UK law but it's very similar here.

BrianD3

Are you sure you area reading the rules correctly, it's a very confusing area? Earthmovers magazine did a very good article on towing law a couple months ago that still left me scratching my head, it was on UK law but it's very similar here.

Yeah I'm confident of my understanding of the rules on licences/towing. They are the same as in the UK and people are pretty informed about them over there. Here, people are only beginning to get a grasp of them. There's a lot of misinformation out there. Many Gardai don't have a clue. Enforcement of the law on trailer towing has been lacking.

But things are changing - and at least the RSA now have clear information on their website.
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-Legislation/Vehicle-Standards/Trailers/

fits

BrianD3 wrote: »

Design gross vehicle weight for licence purposes. The freelander weighs ~1750 kg but its DGVW is stated as 2505 kg (although I have also seen its max payload stated as 505 kg which doesn't seem to tally with the unladen weight and DGVW)

Assuming a 2505 kg DGVW, if I then tow a 1000 kg DGVW trailer I'm over the 3500 kg limit for B licences.

I am insisting on max of 2300 kg DGVW so that I'm comfortably within this limit and have some leeway for towing a heavier trailer if necessary.

1000kg DGVW trailer is still very small though... Most decent trailers would surely have a DGVW of higher than that?

I've just applied for EB test.

doctorchopper

B license will only allow you to tow 750kg gvw according to rsa
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/About-your-license/Driving-license-categories/
Might be easier to get your EB class and then get a proper jeep for towing.

BrianD3

fits wrote: »

1000kg DGVW trailer is still very small though... Most decent trailers would surely have a DGVW of higher than that?

Boats/boat trailer are generally light for their size and have light DGVW.

doctorchopper wrote:

B license will only allow you to tow 750kg gvw according to rsahttp://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drive...se-categories/

See the other RSA link I posted. The info on driving licence categories in your link is open to misunderstanding. Where it says:

Category B Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (includes pulling a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

It could be argued that they are talking about the 4250 kg rule for trailers <750kg.

Top Dog

doctorchopper wrote: »

B license will only allow you to tow 750kg gvw according to rsa
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/About-your-license/Driving-license-categories/
Might be easier to get your EB class and then get a proper jeep for towing.

Not true - and another contributing factor in the confusion.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-Legislation/Vehicle-Standards/Trailers/

With an ordinary category B licence, a person can

• tow a trailer of up to 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to eight passengers (apart from the driver). The combination weight cannot exceed 4.25 tonnes.
• tow a trailer exceeding 0.75 tonnes DGVW, provided that the DGVW of the trailer does not exceed the un-laden weight of the towing vehicle, and the maximum combination weight does not exceed a total of 3.5 tonnes.

GERMAN ROCKS

have a look at the santa fes and peugeot 4007/citroen crossover aswell

doctorchopper

what a crazy system, if the trailer's gvw is more than .75 ton you have 750 kg less capacity, am i reading his correctly?????

shogunpower

yup crazy laws. what makes it worse is that any 16 year old could hop into a 5-6000 kg tractor and tow +30,000 kg up the road at 50kph.

Johro

BrianD3 wrote: »

Design gross vehicle weight for licence purposes. The freelander weighs ~1750 kg but its DGVW is stated as 2505 kg (although I have also seen its max payload stated as 505 kg which doesn't seem to tally with the unladen weight and DGVW)

Assuming a 2505 kg DGVW, if I then tow a 1000 kg DGVW trailer I'm over the 3500 kg limit for B licences.

I am insisting on max of 2300 kg DGVW so that I'm comfortably within this limit and have some leeway for towing a heavier trailer if necessary.

By 5 kg's? Maybe if ya take up jogging, that'll sort it.
Seriously though, I've never actually considered weight restrictions in that way. I have a Mk 1 Pajero, auto gearbox, great for towing, commercial body, I must admit the thought of the added trailer weight never entered my head, not for licence considerations anyway.

_Conrad_

shogunpower wrote: »

yup crazy laws. what makes it worse is that any 16 year old could hop into a 5-6000 kg tractor and tow +30,000 kg up the road at 50kph.

and they regularly do near me at least.
I worked for one particular contractor for a while and i actually quit because it was near impossible to work with some of the other lads he'd hire during busier times, they were stone mad in a bad way and treated the machines like toys. Didn't give a crap whose property they damaged and had no respect for other people or the tractors and implements.

ralc

Hiya,
Did you ever decide which car to go for?
I've had an X-trail for the last 5 years (the older type) and she's a great car for towing. She's come to the end of her days now and I'm looking to change.
SUV's are getting expensive now but I need something for pulling a 1.7tonne boat and some country site work so I'm looking at a crossover.

The best one I can come across is the new Mazda CX-5 for running costs and performance but I'm worried about the AWD system for say slipway and other slippery surface towing as opposed to the lock 4WD option on the x-trail.

Does anybody have any views?