The Media and the Gaming Industry

ttmd

Should the industry receive more scrutiny? Gambling seems to be everywhere, but no one seems to know much about the problems it causes.

FYI, I do not want to see it banned, but I am concerned about the amount of gambling in Irish society.

Yet Paddy Power's commercial success is celebrated - could anyone imagine this with say, a tobacco company.

I have a small conspiracy theory that the print media is afraid to criticise the industry due to its dependence on advertising from gaming companies. I cannot look at any sports section without being offered odds.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

Or should we just ignore it?

Duggy747

Aw, I thought this was going to be about Mortal Kombat

Saadyst

ttmd wrote: »

Does anyone else feel the same way?

Or should we just ignore it?

Those are the only two options?

emo72

good thread btw, but i think its in the wrong place.

Hank Scorpio

Many forms of "gambling" are profitable if you take the time to learn the game, e.g. online poker


Some people may have gambling problems, most people dont from my experience

biko

Gaming and gambling are two different things.

OP, can you add some sources of the gambling problem in Ireland and also to support your claim about a media blackout?

ttmd

emo72 wrote: »

good thread btw, but i think its in the wrong place.

Where then?

Rjd2

nuxxx wrote: »

Many forms of "gambling" are profitable if you take the time to learn the game, e.g. online poker

The gambling industry also is one of the biggest employers in this country as well.

biko

ttmd wrote: »

Where then?

There is a boards Gambling forum, would that suit?

ttmd

biko wrote: »

Gaming and gambling are two different things.

OP, can you add some sources of the gambling problem in Ireland and also to support your claim about a media blackout?

Look, I do not mean this to a be cop out - I understand the quote 'What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'

I have tried to search on the websites of the Irish Times and Irish Independent a few months ago, but I could see many pieces commentating on the role of the industry in Irish society, either positive or negative.

In a terms of a gambling problems, I lack statistics. But I just have a suspicion that there may be large problems out there, and to tell you the truth, I am a bit curious.

smokedeels

Odd that sky are permitted to operate a sports broadcaster and a gambling division, I don't think there should be laws against it... but I'm surprised it's not criticised more.

ttmd

biko wrote: »

There is a boards Gambling forum, would that suit?

Id rather not. I would rather get a wider perception of the industry, whereas that forum is likely to have a higher proportion of people who have a positive view of the hobby. If you feel you cannot host here though fair enough.

kfallon

Drinking is everywhere too, are you concerned about that in Irish society and the problems that it causes??

Dont be at yourself

What's the problem? It's recreation. Nobody cares if some fool spends 200e on a DVD boxset, so why should anyone care if someone drops 200e on the 2:15 at Doncaster?

No need for the government to stick their oar into every single facet of people's lives. Let people spend their money as they want.

kfallon

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

so why should anyone care if someone drops 200e on the 2:15 at Doncaster?

Wonder what they backed in the race? :pac:

Yakult

Theirs a serious amount of gambling ad's on tv. At one stage nearly every second ad on tv was for a gambling site, each time it would be a different website or something..
Why all of a sudden do hundreads of websites start appearing and loads of adverts on tv?

Might aswell start advertising Heroin on tv.

kfallon wrote: »

Drinking is everywhere too, are you concerned about that in Irish society and the problems that it causes??

Very much so.

ttmd

nuxxx wrote: »

Many forms of "gambling" are profitable if you take the time to learn the game, e.g. online poker


Some people may have gambling problems, most people dont from my experience

These things are relative. Most people who drink are not alcoholics, but that is not to say that it does not have an adverse affect on their health, or that a significant minority of people are not alcoholics.

On the poker example, I met a lad who did that for six months. He lived with his mother and came out evens. Not exactly a productive use of time.

ttmd

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What's the problem? It's recreation. Nobody cares if some fool spends 200e on a DVD boxset, so why should anyone care if someone drops 200e on the 2:15 at Doncaster?

No need for the government to stick their oar into every single facet of people's lives. Let people spend their money as they want.

Look I said in the post I am not advocating a ban. But I would think its relevant to estimate how many people are doing this, and if its causing problems.

kfallon

Yakult wrote: »

Theirs a serious amount of gambling ad's on tv. At one stage nearly every second ad on tv was for a gambling site, each time it would be a different website or something..
Why all of a sudden do hundreads of websites start appearing and loads of adverts on tv?

Stop watching ATR or RUK all the time so :pac:

prinz

Yakult wrote: »

Theirs a serious amount of gambling ad's on tv. At one stage nearly every second ad on tv was for a gambling site, each time it would be a different website or something...

A few weeks ago around Cheltenham time?

ttmd

Rjd2 wrote: »

The gambling industry also is one of the biggest employers in this country as well.

No industry should be able to deflect criticism by wrapping itself in the tricolor.

ttmd

Yakult wrote: »

Might aswell start advertising Heroin on tv.

A bit hyperbolic.

Hank Scorpio

ttmd wrote: »

On the poker example, I met a lad who did that for six months. He lived with his mother and came out evens. Not exactly a productive use of time.

Poker is profitable if your able to play the game and stick by bankroll guidelines, if your buddy came out break even after 6 months, that says nothing, obviously he is inexperienced and not a good player.

I could link thousands upon thousands of graphs of consistently winning poker players, including my own, so please do not get into the "poker has no skill" debate, because it does.

Im sure there are people out there with serious gambling problems, just like you quoted with the alcohol problems, albeit be it a minority

ejmaztec

I got so pissed off with having Sky blasting me with piss-gambling ads and channels, I decided to contact Gamblers Anonymous, thinking they might want to involve themselves in getting the advertising campaign toned down. I was very surprised to get the reply that I got from them. They weren't interested in the saturation gambling ads, as it wasn't their remit to get involved in stopping anything like that, and they were just there to pick up the pieces for the ones with the gambling problems.

I only tried stirring the sh1t up because I hate paying Sky anyway, but it didn't work.:(

ttmd

There we go, they are advertising horse racing in the banner on boards right now!:D

Aoifey!

One of the cery few articles I found on this subject.

From The Irish Times:

The astonishing rise of gambling

BYLINE: BRIAN OCONNELL

SECTION: FEATURES; Pg. 15

LENGTH: 1681 words

Around EUR 3.6 billion was gambled in betting shops in Ireland last year, up EUR 300 million on the previous year. What is fuelling this rise and just how worried should we be?
IT USED TO be that betting in Ireland was straightforward. You picked a horse. It won or lost. You tore up your betting slip or put an extra few bob in your pocket depending on the outcome. It was a sporting endeavour, mainly the preserve of certain social classes and conducted through bookmaker offices or numerically-minded pub landlords. Not many people lost a lot of money because not many people had a lot of money to lose.
And then everything changed, as technology and economic expansion combined to create a perfect storm for gambling in Ireland. Last year alone the provisional revenue figures indicate that in excess of EUR 3.6 billion was gambled in 1,093 betting shops nationwide a rise of almost EUR 300 million since the previous year. Incredibly, this figure does not include on-course bets, National Lottery or online gambling.
The ubiquitous nature of gambling in Ireland is evident by just what is available to bet on at any given time. For example, at 4pm last Monday afternoon Paddypower.ie had a choice of women s golf or the men s tennis, the financial markets or Swedish U-21 soccer. Customers could bet on the name of Colin Farrell s expected child, which of London s three female gorillas would be the first to become pregnant, and who will become the next James Bond. You could also join an online casino, play bingo or play the lottery in several different countries.
Journalist and author Declan Lynch, whose book Free Money attempts to explore the world of online gambling, says that the sheer scale and expansion of gambling in the last decade has been extraordinary. The shoeshine moment happened for me about nine years ago, explains Lynch. I used to live in Rathfarnham and there was a betting office on the main street. Another one opened and I remember thinking, there ll be a fight to the death here, the village will never sustain the two of them. While I was waiting to see which one would go out of business another one opened. I thought to myself, hang on, there s something going on here.
Lynch points out the integral role technology has played in fuelling the gambling rise in Ireland. Some digital television stations, such as Sky Sports, now allow viewers to bet on events by accessing buttons on their remote control.
Other sporting events, such as Gaelic Games coverage, have presenters who talk about betting odds before matches as a matter of routine. The internet has driven gambling in Ireland to a whole new level. It s why I felt I had to write about it, Lynch says, There is no other addiction I know of which has been boosted so much by technology. There is now a synchronicity between the internet, television and gambling. Betting companies will sponsor sports on television, and you can, at an extreme level, press the red button on your remote and start betting. You can watch a match and bet on the most corner kicks, on who will receive a yellow card first. The range and scale of gambling nowadays is astonishing.
For those who enjoy the occasional gamble, especially on weekly sports events, there is little wrong with adding some extra interest in an event, by placing a wager. Greg Canty, a partner with Fuzion PR in Cork, says he has the odd bet, mostly on weekend premiership matches. I think I have been in a betting shop once ever in my life. I d watch the Premiership soccer on a Saturday and a few years back I betted on it for about six weeks and won three times, he says. I thought to myself, this is dead easy and kept it up. To be honest I didn t have too much success after that. I found also that Saturday wasn t the same if I didn t have a bet on. We re talking small bets, about a tenner. It added a bit of spice to results on a day.
Canty says the manner in which bets can be placed online made it effortless. He was watching the matches on Saturday regardless, so having a bet just added to the experience. A few clicks and the job is done, it is so easy to wager. The software will tell you what you could win should the results come in and topping up your account is also effortless. I lost interest in it though. It was more a personal choice. It got to the stage where if I didn t have a bet on a Saturday, I felt something was missing.
WHILE THE RECESSION HAS inevitably taken effect on gambling revenue in Ireland, some of the major operators appear to be holding their own and continue to expand aspects of their operations. Last month Paddy Power reported a pre-tax profit of EUR 34 million for the first six months of the year, down 26 per cent on the previous six months. The bookmaker put this drop in revenue in part down to the success of Irish rugby, the predictable nature of the Premiership and Ruby Walsh s seven wins at last year s Cheltenham Festival.
Despite these series of unfortunate (or fortunate, depending on your perspective) series of wins, the company continued to increase its online activity and customer base.
The company says the average bet is about EUR 20 per customer, and that this has been falling by about 6 per cent in the current economic climate. They have responded by attempting to offer customers more choice and better odds, in an effort to trade their way out of the recession. But is the nature and level of gambling in Ireland just harmless weekend fun and an inevitable outcome of greater dialogue between the online revolution and consumer culture? Or is there a deeper malaise?
For some, not enough is being done to both regulate and account for problem gambling and its effects. When asked if problem gambling was a cause for concern, a spokesman for Paddy Power says: Problem gamblers represent a very small number of our customers perhaps 1 per cent. We have a host of measures to help those in difficulty, including a facility where they can exclude themselves or which allows them put limits on their accounts and so on.
Yet, so far, the industry much like the drinks industry is pushing for self-regulation as the way to address problem gambling. In recent months a greater sense of urgency is being brought to this issue, as online activity continues to increase and problem gambling rises. In the past six months alone Gamblers Anonymous have announced that the number of people attending their meetings has doubled in many places and tripled in others around the country.
John Farrelly, director of counselling with marriage counselling service Accord, says that their centres are seeing a marked rise in gambling problems leading to marital difficulties. In the first six months of 2009, internet use was a problem in 7 per cent of marriages. Of that percentage, something like 34 per cent was due to gambling. Now, in previous years the overall figure was between 2 to 5 per cent saying that the internet was causing problems so this year has seen a huge rise, he says.
Perhaps recognising this, the Irish Bookmakers Association is funding the roll out of Gamcare a UK based gambling counselling and advice service here over the coming months. A spokeswoman for Gamcare said, The specialist provision doesn t seem to be available in Ireland the way it is in the UK. Last year we provided 13,000 counselling sessions there. At present we offer Gamcare counselling in the Dublin and Westmeath areas and are looking at expanding the service to cover further west and south as a priority.
For author Declan Lynch, despite this, not enough is being done to address the problem, especially given the ongoing technological developments.
We are a nation of punters, he says. If you are addicted to gambling and have the internet, then you can pursue your addiction. It s the equivalent of an alcoholic having a pub in his house 24 hours a day, with a great atmosphere and a nice band playing. It s that powerful.
Two Sides: The Problem Gambler Over the last 20 years I ve probably lost somewhere in the region of EUR 250,000. That might sound like a huge figure, but if a problem drinker were to add up the number of drinks they ve had over their life, then it would be comparable. The difference between problem drinkers and problem gamblers is that I could lose EUR 50,000 and no one would know. The longest I stayed off it was almost a year, over a decade ago. The urges come and go over time but I would say that I m a problem gambler. I have never bet on a slot machine though and frown on people who put money into them. I suppose there s always someone worse than you, like the alcoholic looking at someone on the street and saying Im not like him yet. Gambling is everywhere in society now. If people are talking about an upcoming football match, they will talk odds. That was never part of the game 20 years ago. In 2004, I went to Gamblers Anonymous for a while and I found that I was the only internet player in a room of about 10 people. But nowadays I imagine it is very different.
Two Sides: The Bookmaker
Bookie shops are cynical places. They are dressed up nicely with carpets and air conditioning and all that, but at the end of the day they are cynical places, full of hopeless desperados. During the boom we had a lot of spontaneous cash bets, like builders coming in on Friday afternoon or Saturday and betting on anything. I work in a small bookmakers, based in Munster, and our turnover has gone up a small bit or pretty much remained the same during the recession. There are not as many big bets.
People have come in here to this outlet and asked me not to take any more bets. A guy came in a month ago, and said don t take any more from me, I m trying to stop it. I said fine. He came in one day after that and I didn t take the bet from him. I very rarely experience that though.
The notion that bookmakers are helping problem gamblers is nonsense. This line that we can allow customers exclude themselves is a bit like the drinks company asking people to drink responsibly at the end of a massive glittery drink advertisement.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2009/0909/1224254121453.html