Enumerators instruct religious background rather than current religion

Zombrex

According to the Irish Times census enumerators have been instructed to tell people when filling out the form to put the religion they were raised in if they don't have a religion.

If that it is true I find it rather shocking and a complete disgrace. Anyone know if this is true or not, the article has very little details.

Beruthiel

This would be the place to get an answer to your question.

MagicMarker

I really wouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes:

The Mad Hatter

From the comments in Wicknight's linked article:

I [spoke] with a census enumerator last night when she dropped the form around to my mother's house in Galway. I asked her about the religion question, as I am an atheist. She told me that since I was baptised as a Catholic, I should put down Catholic - even though I stopped being a Catholic 25 years ago. I asked her how any statistics taken from that approach could be of any use to planning for Ireland's future, she said she had no idea, but those were the instructions she was told to give.

In other words, as far as the CSO is concerned, atheists either do not exist, or should not exist.

Yikes.

Beruthiel

If that is true then I have never heard anything so utterly ridiculous and makes a joke of the whole question.

Tin Foil Hat

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. In fact, if you examine the census website, you will find the following instruction for the religion question:-

Religion is an important demographic variable and will be analysed closely along with other demographic variables in the context of diversity including nationality, ethnicity, and foreign languages. The religions listed have been chosen to cover the most frequent responses given in the 2006 census. This question does not refer to frequency of attendance at church.

http://www.census.ie/The-Census-Form/Each-question-in-detail.109.1.aspx

Tin Foil Hat

The simple fact is that, even though the younger generations are hugely unreligious, this country is still run by the middle aged and elderly generations who are still slaves to the catholic church. They have no interest in a cansus which returns a realistic value for the catholic population, as this would undermine the power given to their own church.

Dades

There's always the possibility that that particular enumerator has their own agenda.

I used to be 16. Can I put that down as my age?

krudler

Beruthiel wrote: »

If that is true then I have never heard anything so utterly ridiculous and makes a joke of the whole question.

indeed, "oh baptised as a non consenting infant were you? mwahahahaha you're still ours!!!"

the church trying to clutch onto whatever semblance of power and numbers they have left in this country, no matter how many people dont want to be part of their crazy old farts in funny hats club.

Deedsie

That's absolute BS. I'm an enumerator, i have never had any discussion or instruction in relation to religion. I couldn't care less either way. Just answer your doors so I can be done with this nightmare of a job.

magicbastarder

all it would take would be an email to the CSO to get the official answer.
i have an email at home about the census (i queried the claim the census is confidential, given they made public the 1911 returns, which is within the lifetime of some people detailed on those returns). i may pop them off a mail about this issue.

Penn

When I write down my age, should I write down the age I used to be too?

sickle

I'm an enumerator too and have been give no guidance on the religion question.
I wouldn't be surprised if the enumerator in question was just giving her own opinion on how it should be answered.
I wouldn't dream of telling anyone they should put down catholic if they were non-practising.

keppler

^^ +1
I'm working as an enumerator at the moment and this nonsense was never raised in training.
If certain cso members were instructing enumerators to advise people to do this, then its certainly not part of the official cso's protocol..............just for the record there's 5 days training in total on how to hand out and collect a form:rolleyes: and as you can imagine theres going to be alot of spare time for Q & A, so it could be likely that some moron did instruct a few people to say this.

Dades

keppler wrote: »

there's 5 days training in total on how to hand out and collect a form:rolleyes: and as you can imagine theres going to be alot of spare time for Q & A, so it could be likely that some moron did instruct a few people to say this.

I'm going with the moron theory.

liamw

Conversely, it would appear that enumerators should teach people how to answer the question properly. There are too many people ticking Catholic box when they are completely non-practicing.

old hippy

The sheer desperation of some of these religious folk :rolleyes:

Improbable

What is this... I dont even..

Galvasean

Tick Catholic.. even though you aren't Catholic?

Dave!

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

Tick Catholic.. even though you aren't Catholic?

meh,works for most supposed catholics in this country.

krudler

krudler wrote: »

meh,works for most supposed catholics in this country.

Especially when you think half of the catholic beliefs are ridiculous - that definitely makes you a catholic

krudler

bluewolf wrote: »

Especially when you think half of the catholic beliefs are ridiculous - that definitely makes you a catholic

Yup, sure I dont think Mary wasnt even a virgin, that still makes me a catholic though, cos I can interpret it as I like.

just...no.

Galvasean

The modern Irish 'Catholic':
Likes pre marital sex.
Uses condoms.
Doesn't believe in transubstanciation.
Attends mass once in a blue moon.
Doesn't believe the Pope has a direct line to God.
Thinks the virgin birth is unlikely.
Isn't sure God exists.
Prefers Celtic to Rangers.

krudler

krudler wrote: »

Yup, sure I dont think Mary wasnt even a virgin, that still makes me a catholic though, cos I can interpret it as I like.

just...no.

"What do you mean I'm not supposed to read the bible for myself stop insulting me, no that isnt catholicism im not a sheep"
You missed out on the whole part of jesus' flock thing then did you? :rolleyes:

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

The modern Irish 'Catholic':
Likes pre marital sex.
Uses condoms.
Doesn't believe in transubstanciation.
Attends mass once in a blue moon.
Doesn't believe the Pope has a direct line to God.
Thinks the virgin birth is unlikely.
Isn't sure God exists.
Prefers Celtic to Rangers.

That sums up pretty much every Catholic I know.

Galvasean

I bet a lot of trouble could have been saved if the Census had a "Don't know" option.

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

I bet a lot of trouble could have been saved if the Census had a "Don't know" option.

Then you'd get people sitting there going "well I know god exists, but all this gays are evil stuff? hhmmm"

"I dont agree with his Bart killing policy, but I do agree with his Selma killing policy"

Lawrence1895

I will tick the box according to what I am now, no matter, what I'm told. Or do I have a choice in what religion I'm born in? :mad:

ShooterSF

Galvasean wrote: »

The modern Irish 'Catholic':
Likes pre marital sex.
Uses condoms.
Doesn't believe in transubstanciation.
Attends mass once in a blue moon.
Doesn't believe the Pope has a direct line to God.
Thinks the virgin birth is unlikely.
Isn't sure God exists.
Prefers Celtic to Rangers.

What we need is:

[] No Religion (But am a Nationalist and support Celtic)

That would get a higher percentage, Im sure of it.

liamw

ShooterSF wrote: »

What we need is:

[] No Religion (But am a Nationalist and support Celtic)

That would get a higher percentage, Im sure of it.

Nah what you really need is:
[] Catholic (Deduction will be made from your salary towards the Catholic Church)
[] No Religion

goose2005

If you're married, should you tick "Single"?

Also, I note how well hidden the "No religion" box is, below the "Other" section even though it's the second biggest group.

Galvasean

goose2005 wrote: »

If you're married, should you tick "Single"?

Also, I note how well hidden the "No religion" box is, below the "Other" section even though it's the second biggest group.

Agreed.
It really should be along the lines of "Do you have a religion?" or "Are you religious" with two options, 'yes' and 'no'.
If you pick 'yes' you get to pick a religion.

Tin Foil Hat

Galvasean wrote: »

Agreed.
It really should be along the lines of "Do you have a religion?" or "Are you religious" with two options, 'yes' and 'no'.
If you pick 'yes' you get to pick a religion.

Or, even better:-

Do you currently practice any religion? Y[] N[]
Details:-
.
.
.

pinkypinky

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have an email at home about the census (i queried the claim the census is confidential, given they made public the 1911 returns, which is within the lifetime of some people detailed on those returns). i may pop them off a mail about this issue.

You know that 1911 and 1901 were released in the 1960s under a special rule. It's only since 2007 that they started putting them online.

seamus

The information submitted in the Censuseseses is held private for 100 years.

This law was only enacted in 1993 and only applies to census submitted since the establishment of the Irish Free State (first one in 1926). The 1901 and 1911 censuses were carried out under UK jurisdiction and were not subject to any privacy legislation when they were collected. Though they were published in 1960 anyway, as pointed out.

http://www.cso.ie/census/Access_to_Records.htm

Unfortunate that we have to wait another 15 years for the next online census archive.

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

The modern Irish 'Catholic':
Likes pre marital sex.
Uses condoms.
Doesn't believe in transubstanciation.
Attends mass once in a blue moon.
Doesn't believe the Pope has a direct line to God.
Thinks the virgin birth is unlikely.
Isn't sure God exists.
Prefers Celtic to Rangers.

Sounds like Church of Ireland. Perhaps they should tick that box instead as a more accurate reflection of their religious beliefs.
Not that I care - I opted out before they changed the rules and I always tick the no religion box.

PeterIanStaker

Wicknight wrote: »

According to the Irish Times census enumerators have been instructed to tell people when filling out the form to put the religion they were raised in if they don't have a religion.

If that it is true I find it rather shocking and a complete disgrace. Anyone know if this is true or not, the article has very little details.

So I'm supposed to put down RC because I had some water poured over me as a babby to please my grandparents?
I will in my bollox.

magicbastarder

pinkypinky wrote: »

You know that 1911 and 1901 were released in the 1960s under a special rule. It's only since 2007 that they started putting them online.

the response i got:

Thank you for your email query.

The 1911 Census was taken prior to Ireland becoming a free state. The
censuses of 1901 and 1911 were taken under the direction of the Registrar
General of Births, Marriages and Deaths and were deposited in the Public
Record Office in 1929, but remained under the jurisdiction of the Registrar
General. By the 1950s the General Register Office was receiving a steady
stream of requests from solicitors for searches in the returns in order to
prove age or to establish family relationships. The practice of the
General Register Office was not to refuse any bona fide enquirer. In 1961
the Registrar General decided that the returns for 1901 and 1911 should be
formally transferred to the Public Record Office. Accordingly the Minister
for Justice signed a warrant under the Public Records (Ireland) Act, 1867,
ordering the Registrar General to allow the records to be transferred. The
returns for 1901 and 1911 thereby became public records available for
public inspection in the Public Record Office. They became the most
frequently used archives in the National Archives and as you are aware the
National Archives recently digitised those records for online use.

The first Census of the free state was in 1926 and it and all subsequent
Censuses in Ireland were taken under the Statistics Act 1926, superseded by
the Statistics Act 1993. The 1993 Act allows for release of the census
returns only after 100 years have elapsed. In fact we have frequently
been requested to release the 1926 Census records by genealogists and
historians. All requests have been refused as they are protected by the
confidentiality clause of the Act. The will be available for public record
in 2026 as the 100 years will have elapsed as is the same for all the
Censuses held since.

Regards

antiskeptic

Galvasean wrote: »

Tick Catholic.. even though you aren't Catholic?

That would make you a thick Catholic.

expectationlost

to the enumerators replying here, how was it that this issue _didn't_ come up in your core training?


it seems to be more then one enumerator going by the article and the commenter.

so the question is what area are these enumerators from and who trained them and how many get trained together? a misguided manager or managers could have instructed many many enumerators to do this

this would be consistent though with the CSO whole approach to this issue, refusing to change the question because it would show up how wrong they are, the census has never had any self checking, i think they may be only introducing it this time.

from census.ie Question 12 – What is your religion?
http://www.census.ie/The-Census-Form/Each-question-in-detail.109.1.aspx
..People should respond to this question according to how they feel now about their religious beliefs or lack thereof