Rogue tradesman

newuser1

Hi
I’m having trouble with a tradesman who is looking for more money. In 2009 a price was given for a job and accepted. Terms and conditions stated that the price of materials will go up later in 2010. The job was started well before the price increase came into effect. Also as initial price was accepted he was told to order all material before the deadline. He is threatening to bring the law into this. Surely he doesn’t have a case?
Thanks

P. Breathnach

As you describe it, it looks as if he does not have a case. It might be that his understanding of your agreement was different.

Carpenter

Hi
Have you all this on paper

newuser1

Carpenter wrote: »

Hi
Have you all this on paper

Hi
We have the initial quote on paper with the terms and conditions. He was instructed to get the material before the deadline by phone. The fact that he had started the work well before the deadline would surely mean its his responsibilty to be on top of ordering materials even if we hadnt made the phone call.

Carpenter

Well if you have the paperwork stating the T&C then it sounds like you are in the right

the_syco

newuser1 wrote: »

He was instructed to get the material before the deadline by phone.

I'm going to play the devils advocate here...

Phone call? What phone call? I don't remember any phone call. Look at the T&C. it "stated that the price of materials will go up later in 2010", so it's not like you knew...

You'll have to talk to a solicitor about the T&C, as it seems like the tradesman has this one fairly well covered. Also, unless he had somewhere secure to store all the materials, I can't see him buying all of it at once.

newuser1

the_syco wrote: »

I'm going to play the devils advocate here...

You'll have to talk to a solicitor about the T&C, as it seems like the tradesman has this one fairly well covered. Also, unless he had somewhere secure to store all the materials, I can't see him buying all of it at once.

We cleaned out shed and told him we will store the material for him.

the_syco

newuser1 wrote: »

We cleaned out shed and told him we will store the material for him.

What material is it, what sort of shed do you have, is it insulated, long enough, etc. Check the T&C. Having the "price of materials will go up later in 2010" stated in the contract could mean that he can raise the price. I'd look into the contract with a fine tooth comb and a solicitor to see is the price the only price, or if the price can keep raising. As it stands, it seems like he can ask for more money, as you may have signed for it.

slimjimmc

newuser1 wrote: »

Hi
We have the initial quote on paper with the terms and conditions. He was instructed to get the material before the deadline by phone. The fact that he had started the work well before the deadline would surely mean its his responsibilty to be on top of ordering materials even if we hadnt made the phone call.

Following on the_syco's train of thought...

can you show that
a) ordering materials was his responsibility alone (not shared),
b) that he was required to purchase all materials before the price increase,

because if you can't then it would be difficult to prove it wasn't your job to get the stock in, even if he ordered some stuff previously himself.
A "Sure, the boss said he'd get it himself" argument.

Starting before the deadline proves nothing else other than he started before the deadline, it certainly isn't proof of his responsibilities, that's what contracts are for.

newuser1

"Scope of works;Supply and fit"

"terms & conditions
Goods remain the property of ... until paid for in full."

This surely means that it was his job to order materials

No evidence that we told him to order them only a phone call.

slimjimmc

Thanks, the scope of work would make ordering materials his responsibility.

However you haven't said there's anything in the contract that says he must order all materials before the price increase. If there is, you haven't told us yet.

So, according to the terms you've described so far, he hasn't done anything against the contract. He may have ignored/forgot/not received your instruction but is it a contractual breach or a scam? You agreed to a clause which protected him from price increases without ensuring you had your own clause which ensured he had to buy before the increase kicked in (effectively making his terms obsolete).

He bought the materials at higher price and is passing that on to you, as you agreed to when accepting his terms. I expect he'll be providing full receipts so it's not as if he's ripping you off and pocketing the difference himself. Calling him a rogue is unfair and unjustified imo.

Pkiernan

How much money are we talking about here?

Unless its many thousands it not going to court.

newuser1

slimjimmc wrote: »

Thanks, the scope of work would make ordering materials his responsibility.

However you haven't said there's anything in the contract that says he must order all materials before the price increase. If there is, you haven't told us yet.

So, according to the terms you've described so far, he hasn't done anything against the contract. He may have ignored/forgot/not received your instruction but is it a contractual breach or a scam? You agreed to a clause which protected him from price increases without ensuring you had your own clause which ensured he had to buy before the increase kicked in (effectively making his terms obsolete).

He bought the materials at higher price and is passing that on to you, as you agreed to when accepting his terms. I expect he'll be providing full receipts so it's not as if he's ripping you off and pocketing the difference himself. Calling him a rogue is unfair and unjustified imo.

Thanks
There is nothing on paper that states he was to buy before the deadline but a phonecall was made. He is claiming that he was not told, which is a lie. So i stand by my rogue label.

newuser1

Pkiernan wrote: »

How much money are we talking about here?

Unless its many thousands it not going to court.

400 euro

slimjimmc

newuser1 wrote: »

Thanks
There is nothing on paper that states he was to buy before the deadline but a phonecall was made. He is claiming that he was not told, which is a lie. So i stand by my rogue label.

Maybe he could have simply forgot and honestly believes he wasn't told. Do you know otherwise? It's not a lie if he believes to be true.
Let's look at it from his side, perhaps you are the rogue trying to scam him out of €400 by wriggling out a contract term you signed, after all you have a strong incentive. I'm not claiming you are but I am illustrating there are two perspectives here not just yours.

As you said, the contract makes him responsible for supply which I imagine gives you have little control over when he orders, so long as he gets the job done to spec, and with you guaranteeing to absorbing any price increase.

Tbh, I can't see how you can win this one. The materials were used and you agreed in advance to accept price increases, therefore you owe the extra charge. Either that or return the materials in the condition they were supplied. He probably has more experience and just covered his a55 better, nothing dodgy about that imo.

sotoole1

Hope your not still puting up with this crap .
I'm a builder ,and you owe nothing .a price was given the job was tsarted , end of story.
Buy any chance is this builder a non-national

sotoole1

newuser1 wrote: »

Hi
I’m having trouble with a tradesman who is looking for more money. In 2009 a price was given for a job and accepted. Terms and conditions stated that the price of materials will go up later in 2010. The job was started well before the price increase came into effect. Also as initial price was accepted he was told to order all material before the deadline. He is threatening to bring the law into this. Surely he doesn’t have a case?
Thanks

Hope your not still puting up with this crap .
I'm a builder ,and you owe nothing .a price was given the job was tsarted , end of story.
Buy any chance is this builder a non-national

michael999999

sotoole1 wrote: »

Hope your not still puting up with this crap .
I'm a builder ,and you owe nothing .a price was given the job was tsarted , end of story.
Buy any chance is this builder a non-national

I would bet the non national would have better spelling than you!

sotoole1

michael999999 wrote: »

I would bet the non national would have better spelling than you!

My point is that when you price material you always get a reference number Michael. Not many non-nationals know this.
So maybe when he priced first he made up his final quote .
But not doing the above resulted, when on payment of the material the price was higher.
Now in some cases the price comes in lower on materials but in order to keep within the original price you need a reference number.

This is a case that is very very common at the moment .

dudara

The nationality of the tradesman is not relevant. Do not drag this thread off topic.

dudara