Tina Leonard. Pat Kennys DSO Guru

Sponge Bob

This is Tinas advice with SB comments added for the glaringly glaring issues) . If you feel it could be improved then mail the improvement to todaypk@rte.ie

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/

Didn't know Sony and Samsung were through approvals. She is up to date on Triax.

Tina and Pat do not seem to know about the Satellite, if they think that 97% of the population will be covered by the end of May 2011 ( Leaving only 125000 persons with no digital service) we are in a spot of bother methinks.

What is the digital switchover?
We have had the current analogue TV system since 1962 and now EU rules have given the end of 2012 as the final date for analogue TV to be switched to digital across Europe.
Digital TV offers more channels, better picture and sound quality, on screen programme guides and new interactive services.
Saorview is the digital television service, owned and managed by RTÉ, who have been charged with implementing this switch, as per EU rules, by the end of 2012. As the name suggests it is a free-to-air television service.
By this May it will already be accessible to 97% of the population, but by the end of 2012 it will completely replace the current service.
What channels will be provided?
Basically the channels are the same as those currently available for free but because more channels can be carried on a digital service there will be extra.
According to RTE the 2010 viewing statistics show that all of the 100 most watched TV programmes in Ireland are carried on the channels provided.
TV Channels:
RTÉ One
RTÉ Two HD
TV3
TG4
RTÉ News Now – news bulletins (current online news content for broadcast)
3e
RTÉjr – Daytime only for children. No advertising.
RTÉ One + 1 – Evening on same channel as above. RTE 1 programmes one hour later. No advertising.
RTÉ Aertel Digital
Radio Stations:
RTÉ Radio 1
RTÉ 2fm
RTÉ lyric fm
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta
RTÉ Choice
RTÉ Pulse
RTÉ 2XM
RTÉ Gold
RTÉjr
Radio 1 Extra
What do you have to do?
There are 1.6million TV households in Ireland. Some will have to buy a set-top box to get the new services, others will have to do nothing.
1. Subscribers to UPC / Sky
You don’t have to do anything. The majority of TV households in Ireland (around 1 million) subscribe to either Sky or UPC and will continue to receive the Irish channels as now.





(SB what about HD Tina ???)



In fact UPC are obliged to carry the four primary Irish TV channels. Sky, while not obliged, provide this service also. However, it is not confirmed yet if Sky or UPC will provide the additional digital channels provided by Saorview.


(SB Will RTE provide SKY witha HD feed Tina, what about TV3 and TG4)



2. Aerial users
The next biggest group of TV users amounting to 594,000 Irish households (37%), receive some television service through an aerial, with over half of those exclusively using an aerial. If your TV only uses an aerial you will have to buy a Saorview approved set top box (for each TV) to get the new television service.



(SB Your aerial possibly needs a rework Tina, eg no analogue aerials point at Tonabrocky in Galway City and that is Group A not C/D like Maghera, we is not all in fuggin Dublin you know . No mention of the 'TV3 analogue test' which applies to most of our aerials)



Currently the Saorview approved box costs around €100 but as more competition enters the market, the price is likely to come down, so you’d be best advised to wait a while. In addition, there may be a government subvention scheme but details are yet to be announced. Once you have the box, the service is free, as now.
(The two Saorview approved boxes currently available are by Walker and Triax and Samsung and Sony have Saorview approved TVs. More are currently being tested. The Triax box also has a PVR (series link / recording) facility.) Other boxes are available on the market but Saorview recommend choosing one with the Saorview approved sticker).
Warning: If you have a very old aerial you might need a new one or it might be facing the wrong direction:
If you are using an aerial but currently don’t receive TV3 (just RTE1, 2 and TG4), then your aerial may be fine but it may be pointing in the wrong direction. If you don’t get TV3 or TG4 through your aerial then you may need a new UHF aerial to receive Saorview. This will cost approximately €140 - €160.
3. Free-to-air satellite users


(SB Free to air is IRRELEVANT Tina, get out of it )



This is the fastest growing market as consumers seek to avoid paying monthly subscriptions, and users in this category have grown by 39% in one year to 162,000 households or 10% of the market.
With free-to-air you buy a box and a satellite dish for a one off fee and after that have no subscription. Free-to-air doesn’t provide Irish channels but if you are using an aerial currently as well to get the Irish channels you’ll need to buy a Saorview set top box. There are also combination freesat and Saorview compatible set-top boxes available. For free-to-air prices range from €125 upwards and you’ll pay more to have it installed. Bear in mind that if you are currently subscribing to Sky and cancel your contract with them, you can keep your dish so won’t need to buy another if you buy a free-to-air box instead.
4. If you live near the border or in the South East
If you live near the border with Northern Ireland or in the South East (mainly Wexford), most likely you currently receive the UK channels for free as the analogue overspill from UK services.




( SB There is no overspill from Wales Tina , it is SWITCHED OFF SIINCE 2010...now you belatedly mention it below)



The switchover in the UK has already begun and is happening on a region-by-region basis. In Wales, for example, the digital switchover has already occurred so if you are living in Wexford and can currently receive UK digital overspill through your aerial then the Saorview box should decode it for you.


(SB What about Freeview HD and T2 Tina)



If you live near the border and currently receive analogue overspill UK services from Northern Ireland via an aerial, you may continue to receive digital UK overspill after the analogue signal is turned off in both jurisdictions at the end of 2012. You will still need the Saorview approved box though.


(SB YOu will not need a Saorview approved box Tina, it would be better if you got one but it Saorview is not cross approved for Freeview...do mention that )



5. If you are buying a new TV
You do not need to buy a new TV but if you are planning on buying a new TV set anytime soon, make sure you buy an integrated digital television (iDTV), as then you won’t need to buy a set top box at all. The Irish system is Mpeg 4 compatible (same as Scandinavia).

(SB MOST OF SCANDINAVIA IS STILL Mpeg2, only Norway is Mpeg4 Tina FFS )

The UK’s freeview service operates under Mpeg 2 although their newer TVs are also Mpeg 4 compatible. If in doubt, ask the sales assistant.

Can you get Saorview now?
From the end of May Saorview will be accessible to 97% of the population. To see if Saorview is available in your area now you can log on to their website and input in your address to find out.
For further information: www.saorview.ie / locall 1890 222012

Not very good at this stage of the game, don't see much sign of Tina learning either.

watty

The Triax box is not officially a PVR. It's a manufacturer's Kuldge as it has no 2nd tuner nor dedicated HDD.

We know Pat Kenny is overpaid and any fresh Media Studies person on a fraction of salery could do a better job. I'm not sure why Tina Leonard should be involved at all.

There are TVs with MPEG4 stickers and it actually only refers to DVD PC file playback on the Integral DVD player. I think maybe MPEG4 etc shouldn't be mentioned. A simpler approach for TV & Radio is needed.

Coupled with making it a criminal offence with €5,000 fine per TV to not clearly label all retail TVs. Then the message on TV & Radio is VERY simple.
Don't buy a TV that isn't either Irish Digital Compatible or Saorview Certified with big label.
All Sets without MPEG4, HE-AAC, MHEG5 and HD to have a BIG Sticker by law that says: This TV works in Ireland as Analogue Only, ceasing in 2012. After 2012 it's only a Video Monitor not a TV.

Or "This TV is not Certified, but it works on Irish Digital as it has MPEG4, HE-AAC, MHEG5 and HD".

Or "This TV is Saorview Certified. That means independently guaranteed to be 100% Irish Digital Compatible"

The problem is the shops. They do not want the Public educated. They do not want the public to make informed purchasing decisions. They want to sell incompatible DVD Recorders and (Obsolescent even in UK) TVs as long as they have them. I bet incompatible stock has been imported since October 2010.

The NCA has been asleep since March 2008. All TVs since August 2008 should have been clearly labelled. This is STILL not happening.

http://www.techtir.ie/blog/Reynard/retail-aso-part1

For N.I. Overspill "Freeview HD" certified box or TV is best solution as that gives access to ALL the UK features and HD, as well as Irish Digital. A Saorview box will not get UK HD. Definitely NOT a Saorview or Freeview box if you receive both signals.

John mac

There are also combination freesat and Saorview compatible set-top boxes available.

What are the names and where can we buy this product?

Digital Satellite TV

John mac wrote: »

What are the names and where can we buy this product?

Love one of those if you find one lying around:rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Only on planet Tina. Is there nobody in RTE itself like that Digital Woman they appointed last summer who could talk sensibly about the subject or is that too much to expect from an RTE insider ???

watty

Ray Maguire from RTE was good. Of course that was a presentation for Technical people so no "lies for children" in it. Apart from the "Digitial Dividend = €500Million". Which he claimed he had to quote the "official" Ministerial figure.

Ray of course takes the line that the ONLY Irish Compatible stuff is Saorview, on the basis of how can you trust a manufacturer or retailer without 3rd part expert testing. I have to admit that if I was selling TVs and there was a serious penalty for selling uncertified TV, claiming it was compatible and later it transpires it's not 100% happy, I'd only sell certified products as Compatible. I'd stick a notice on the rest saying: Might turn out to be a Monitor. Seems to work today, buy at own risk.

How many non-Freeview or non-Freeview HD approved models are sold as Fully UK Digital Compatible in the UK?

Or non-ASTC models in USA?
Or non-ISDB in Japan?

liamtech

This is the fastest growing market as consumers seek to avoid paying monthly subscriptions, and users in this category have grown by 39% in one year to 162,000 households or 10% of the market.

MY GOD! Are those figures accurate? I Long for the day when more users come over to free to air - brilliant! If a proper combo box becomes available and is marketed correctly then it should make savage inroads!

(SB what about HD Tina ???)

In fact UPC are obliged to carry the four primary Irish TV channels. Sky, while not obliged, provide this service also. However, it is not confirmed yet if Sky or UPC will provide the additional digital channels provided by Saorview.

(SB Will RTE provide SKY witha HD feed Tina, what about TV3 and TG4)

To be honest Spongebob i would speculate that they will eventually carry the full saorview roundup on both UPC and SKY - MUCH AS IT PAINS ME TO SAY IT- (only my opinion)

3. Free-to-air satellite users

(SB Free to air is IRRELEVANT Tina, get out of it )

I disagree with this comment 100% Spongebob and dont know exactly what your getting at - -

As i have stated previously on many threads, its a terrible lack of knowledge that is preventing more users from going Free To Air or Freesat - Shops like currys & the Sony Center will barely admit that there are FTA stations available via satellite - they would much prefer to sign users up to UPC or SKY - For that reason most people dont know about the freesat channel line-up - I countryside relative of mine recently told me there was no point in him getting a satellite dish as there was only a couple of english language channels available . . . OR SO HE HAD BEEN TOLD...

It is MASSIVELY RELEVANT that FTA satellite TV gets hyped up as much as possible during the next 2 years - so that many Digital switch-over customers consider getting a combi box instead of a simple Saorview box -

Of Course a saorview certified Combi box would be the preferred item -

OFF TOPIC

Since Triax's disastrous ST-HD537 was removed, there has been little movement in the direction of compatable combi boxes - anyone have any ideas on the timescale for a truely compatable box, even if UN-certified - Are walker making any plans to move in this direction -

It would have been truely advisable for at least one saorview certified/compatible SAT/DTT box to be available for the may launch -

I have "liberated" several friends, family members and acquaintances from subscription TV and this type of equipment would be seriously useful -

Tony

Its not that surprising in my opinion given the 20K cost of certification and the relatively small size of the Irish market. I've just heard the trade asking price of the Triax approved box and its seriously overpriced in my opinion.

I know RTE have said thats prices will come down in the future but I see no evidence or reason why that would happen at present.

liamtech wrote: »

It would have been truely advisable for at least one saorview certified/compatible SAT/DTT box to be available for the may launch -

FionaTilly

liamtech wrote: »

Since Triax's disastrous ST-HD537 was removed, there has been little movement in the direction of compatable combi boxes - anyone have any ideas on the timescale for a truely compatable box, even if UN-certified - Are walker making any plans to move in this direction -

It would have been truely advisable for at least one saorview certified/compatible SAT/DTT box to be available for the may launch -

I have "liberated" several friends, family members and acquaintances from subscription TV and this type of equipment would be seriously useful -

MVision HD300 Combo DTT / Satellite Receiver does exactly what it says on the tin

Tony

FionaTilly wrote: »

MVision HD300 Combo DTT / Satellite Receiver does exactly what it says on the tin

Its not cerified and does not have MHEG 5.

watty

FionaTilly wrote: »

MVision HD300 Combo DTT / Satellite Receiver does exactly what it says on the tin

No Freesat Compatibility
No Autotune (250 channels of junk appear when you manually scan, you even have to add transponders)
No BBC Interactive multiscreen
No MHEG Text
No official EPG support
No OTA Firmware

Not Saorview Compatible
No MHEG Applications (we can't know what will be released)
No MHEG text
No OTA Firmware
Who knows what other lack?

But it doesn't in fact claim these, so it does do what is it says.

liamtech wrote: »

3. Free-to-air satellite users

(SB Free to air is IRRELEVANT Tina, get out of it )

I disagree with this comment 100% Spongebob and dont know exactly what your getting at - -

FTA Satellite is irrelevant as you can't get Irish TV on it. That's what Sponge Bob means.

It May be relevant (and solve the combo box issue) if you have a suitable "Freesat HD" box that supports Diseqc and a Dual Feed or 2nd dish for Freesat + Saorsat. But we have no date for Saorsat. Nor can we address the issues of Saorsat on "Freesat HD" box (three routes to solve the Other channels issue) till then.

The Triax 537 is unlikely to support Freesat EPG directly nor Full Red button video services, only BBC text. It's not a proper Combo solution

No Combo PVR will ever be as good and cheap as "Freesat HD" PVR.
No non-PVR Combo will ever be as as good and cheap as a "Freesat HD" box.

DTT only boxes are to convert existing TVs that use an aerial. New TVs won't need them so the non-PVR DTT box market is 3 years max.

The big PVR market is for Freesat HD. The best solution if you want UK TV and Irish TV PVR is Dual Feed and a "Freesat+ HD" PVR.

If you have a Compatible TV and not fussed about PVR then best is "Freesat HD" only box.

There is no long term market for a Combo. There is no long term market for a DTT box that is a basic box.

You will see Home Cinema Amp with "Freesat+ HD" PVR and Bluray Record with BD/DVD playback. You will Home Cinema Amp with "Freeview+ HD" PVR and Bluray Record with BD/DVD playback. You will never see a decent well priced Combo of similar spec.

liamtech

watty wrote: »

No Freesat Compatibility
No Autotune (250 channels of junk appear when you manually scan, you even have to add transponders)
No BBC Interactive multiscreen
No MHEG Text
No official EPG support
No OTA Firmware

Not Saorview Compatible
No MHEG Applications (we can't know what will be released)
No MHEG text
No OTA Firmware
Who knows what other lack?

But it doesn't in fact claim these, so it does do what is it says.




FTA Satellite is irrelevant as you can't get Irish TV on it. That's what Sponge Bob means.

It May be relevant (and solve the combo box issue) if you have a suitable "Freesat HD" box that supports Diseqc and a Dual Feed or 2nd dish for Freesat + Saorsat. But we have no date for Saorsat. Nor can we address the issues of Saorsat on "Freesat HD" box (three routes to solve the Other channels issue) till then.

The Triax 537 is unlikely to support Freesat EPG directly nor Full Red button video services, only BBC text. It's not a proper Combo solution

No Combo PVR will ever be as good and cheap as "Freesat HD" PVR.
No non-PVR Combo will ever be as as good and cheap as a "Freesat HD" box.

DTT only boxes are to convert existing TVs that use an aerial. New TVs won't need them so the non-PVR DTT box market is 3 years max.

The big PVR market is for Freesat HD. The best solution if you want UK TV and Irish TV PVR is Dual Feed and a "Freesat+ HD" PVR.

If you have a Compatible TV and not fussed about PVR then best is "Freesat HD" only box.

There is no long term market for a Combo. There is no long term market for a DTT box that is a basic box.

You will see Home Cinema Amp with "Freesat+ HD" PVR and Bluray Record with BD/DVD playback. You will Home Cinema Amp with "Freeview+ HD" PVR and Bluray Record with BD/DVD playback. You will never see a decent well priced Combo of similar spec.

I disagree with FTA satellite being called irrelevant, just because RTE is not included - The fact is that more air time needs to be given to highlight the many English stations are available-

Those 594,000 Aerial users currently have analogue via aerial are potential FTA Satellite and Saorview customers - They could buy a saorview box for around 100euro -

OR

A combi box for as little as 160 - a sky dish for around 40 quid extra and low and behold they have gone from 4 Channels to 140+ channels - Ive seen fairly decent deals on full satellite installations on the net for such customers-

Saying FTA satellite at 28.2 is irrelevant to the Terrestrial DSO is technically true, but incredibly misguided - I commend this lady for mentioning it -

Not mentioning it and explaining the benefits, leaves many with the option of getting $ky for 20 a month, and a PVR free - for many aerial only users this may seem preferable to paying 100euro for saorview alone (5 channels, a repeating news station, a timeshift and one for the kids)

watty

liamtech wrote: »

I disagree with FTA satellite being called irrelevant, just because RTE is not included - The fact is that more air time needs to be given to highlight the many English stations are available-

You missing the point. In the origin Context. FTA satellite on it's own isn't enough. You need to Aerial (Saorview) or 2nd feed (Saorsat).

It's also unlikely there will ever be a decent combo box. RTE themselves suggested to Oireachtas committee that people get Freesat for UK channels. We need the Saorsat also for people that want Freesat, so as to have a single decent PVR.

I can tell you apart from a PVR feature, a Saorview compatible TV + Freesat HD box (or out of contract Sky HD) is far better than any Combo box on the market.

For the real PVR there are ZERO decent combos. I Don't believe that they will ever compete with "Freesat+ HD" PVR or "Freeview+ HD" PVR on price + features.

liamtech

Freesat and the Free To Air channels of Astra 28.2E should always be mentioned when talking about subscription options and the digital switchover -
We realize that RTE isn't available FTA from this location and that's unfortunate - But as the lady pointed out it is available via an aerial - Put your dish and aerial together and you get a TV Package that puts many subscription services to shame in terms of channel line-up and above all... COST.

Those 594, 000 thousand users need to be aware of the fact that if they want more channel selection, $ky and Cable $ubscriptiuons are by no means the only option - Take UPC/Analogue Customers - They should be aware that Saorview+Freesat/FTA-28E will offer them 10 times as many channels - and not for 60odd euro every three months... but for a once off cost of around 200 odd euro - and then its free.

Before DTT even began testing over here, and before freesat existed, i had 28.2E via an old sky dish coming through my computer(Technisat Skystar) -

One thing is for certain - SKY & UPC will both be first in line to take advantage of the lack of proper information flying around about the DSO - I promise you they will have free Multiroom for all those poor aerial TVS a perspective user might have!

ALl of this can be finalized in 3 VERY PRUDENT AND RELEVANT QUESTIONS IN RELATION TO DSO:

• Q1. What is available from Saorview?
• Q2. Are there any BBC or English stations available?
• Q3. Is there anyway to get these stations free of charge?

The problem is that Most people believe the answer to Q3 is "NO".

Apogee

watty wrote: »

I can tell you apart from a PVR feature, a Saorview compatible TV + Freesat HD box (or out of contract Sky HD) is far better than any Combo box on the market.

That is a matter of personal opinion.

watty

How does my wife watch her wimbleton on a Combo box? None work for Interactive video.
How many combo boxes never need a rescan or retune on 28.2E?
How many support MHEG5 services?

The combo boxes are either basic zappers for people that want the minimum, or a fiddler's dream for folk that want strange non-Sky pay TV.

They are not a Compatible Mass market product.

esquilax

watty wrote: »

How does my wife watch her wimbleton on a Combo box? None work for Interactive video.
How many combo boxes never need a rescan or retune on 28.2E?
How many support MHEG5 services?

The combo boxes are either basic zappers for people that want the minimum, or a fiddler's dream for folk that want strange non-Sky pay TV.

They are not a Compatible Mass market product.

My mother, not the most technically savvy of people, knows the BBCi streams are tuned in on our box somewhere in the higher numbers and I have found her watching them on occasion.

However I have come to the conclusion that auto-retuning is an essential feature of any mass market satellite product. Very few people outside this forum want to know what a transponder or a symbol rate is. If I weren't here to look up what's happened on the internet and retune the channel, the folks would be missing half of them by now.

The EPG that only populates when you tune to the channel is another massive turn off. How you do even explain that kludgy piece of awfulness to anyone who's ever seen Sky?

Though most people on here like the technical elegance of a combo box, when it comes to the average man on the street, there's a lot to be said for a Saorview TV and Freesat box (as you suggest) or even an old Sky box with no card in it.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

How does my wife watch her wimbleton on a Combo box? None work for Interactive video.
How many combo boxes never need a rescan or retune on 28.2E?
How many support MHEG5 services?

The combo boxes are either basic zappers for people that want the minimum, or a fiddler's dream for folk that want strange non-Sky pay TV.

They are not a Compatible Mass market product.

This is why in my opinion,why we need more Freesat boxes to have diseqc
switch capability.

The only ones that have this is the Humax + box and the Technisat Hd
box. Both are excellent boxes but have a very convoluted way of going
between Freesat and non Freesat, not great for mass market.

So if manufacturers of Freesat boxes make the boxes with a bit more thought
for us Irish , maybe even let us record non Freesat channels, who knows
we could end up with the perfect Freesat box:D

Oh! and rf2 9 volt out same as sky ,while their at it

Apogee

watty wrote: »

How does my wife watch her wimbleton on a Combo box?

Have you tried a different model of wife?

The Cush

Just listened back to the programme on the website, didn't get a chance to listen to it earlier.

What a difference 18 months makes, I was impressed with the discussion - MPEG-4/2, iDTVs, overspill, even Saorstat (:D) got a mention, free-to-air satellite etc.

Not a huge amount of detail but not bad for a 13 min. discussion. No mention of overspill or coverage into NI for example.

Pat Kenny mentioned Boxer who would have provided all the extra channels / all the channels that you wanted :rolleyes: but no mention of the far longer OneVision failed process or the non-starter RTÉ EasyTV consortum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNvaekmyBJI

mossym

watty wrote: »

There are TVs with MPEG4 stickers and it actually only refers to DVD PC file playback on the Integral DVD player. I think maybe MPEG4 etc shouldn't be mentioned. A simpler approach for TV & Radio is needed.

DVD is mpeg2. if a tv is described as mpeg4 capable and the manufacturer isn't referring to the tuner then it's more than likely talking about ability to play mpeg4 material in something like divx/xvid format from a USB connected memory device, or over a home network if the tv has a network port

just before people get scared off buying any tv with a dvd player:D

watty

No. They are talking about PC files (divX as you say) on a DVD. DVD Video is MPEG2 only. But DVD with files can be "MPEG4". But these integral DVD player TVs ARE "officially" labelled MPEG, do not have MPEG4 for reception and they do play regular DVD videos and the PC file that are "MPEG4" type (usually divx/xvid format in MP4, AVI etc). They rarely support HD or H.264 MPEG4, but often H.263.

Some may have USB playback also. But virtually all integral DVD players I have seen the TV is Clearly and in large type described as MPEG4. It is just file playback.

mossym

watty wrote: »

No. They are talking about PC files (divX as you say) on a DVD. DVD Video is MPEG2 only. But DVD with files can be "MPEG4". But these integral DVD player TVs ARE "officially" labelled MPEG, do not have MPEG4 for reception and they do play regular DVD videos and the PC file that are "MPEG4" type (usually divx/xvid format in MP4, AVI etc). They rarely support HD or H.264 MPEG4, but often H.263.

Some may have USB playback also. But virtually all integral DVD players I have seen the TV is Clearly and in large type described as MPEG4. It is just file playback.

NO right back at you. agree with the file playback, but the number of tv's supporting file playback from usb on the market dwarfs the number with integrated dvd player. both will claim mpeg 4 support.

claiming this is a problem for tvs with integrated dvd players while correct in as far as it goes only confuses the matter further, as there are a far greater number of tvs out there with no dvd player labelled mepg4 where the mpeg 4 is only for file playback.

what you're saying is right, but limits the problem to a tiny part of the market, when the reality is that mpeg4 playback form external storage is almost mainstream in newer tv's(not counting the bargain bin 19 to 26" models) so saying the mpeg4 labelling problem exists in tvs with integrated dvd players only is saying the rest are fine, when they're far from it.

and all the new Samsung will gladly playback h264 encoded material, as will many of the new Sony's. Which makes things even more confusing cause certain models from those manufacturers have been approved, and a buyer could walk into a shop, see a Sony labelled mpeg4 and assume it is one of the certified models.

ftakeith

The Cush wrote: »

Just listened back to the programme on the website, didn't get a chance to listen to it earlier.

What a difference 18 months makes, I was impressed with the discussion - MPEG-4/2, iDTVs, overspill, even Saorstat (:D) got a mention, free-to-air satellite etc.

Not a huge amount of detail but not bad for a 13 min. discussion. No mention of overspill or coverage into NI for example.

Pat Kenny mentioned Boxer who would have provided all the extra channels / all the channels that you wanted :rolleyes: but no mention of the far longer OneVision failed process or the non-starter RTÉ EasyTV consortum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNvaekmyBJI

a good discussion, kept it simple

zanardi

scruffy66 wrote: »

This is why in my opinion,why we need more Freesat boxes to have diseqc
switch capability.

The only ones that have this is the Humax + box and the Technisat Hd
box. Both are excellent boxes but have a very convoluted way of going
between Freesat and non Freesat, not great for mass market.

So if manufacturers of Freesat boxes make the boxes with a bit more thought
for us Irish , maybe even let us record non Freesat channels, who knows
we could end up with the perfect Freesat box:D

Oh! and rf2 9 volt out same as sky ,while their at it

Have you seen mogies work on avforums? He has developed a channel editor for the humax - allows you to mix freesat and non freesat channels up into any order you like on the epg.

It will be very useful when saorsat goes live, although I accept that it's not for the mass market.

I'll ask him about getting an rf socket with DC added

watty

RF out + DC is going to be history
* Better to have each TV independent
* No Stereo
* No HD
* Uses up minimum 2 channels often 4, interfering with DTT.
* Poor quality
* Extra cost

Badgermonkey

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Didn't know Sony and Samsung were through approvals. She is up to date on Triax.
(

Number of Sony & Sammy iDTV's up on Saorview.ie

http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

watty

Mirrored here too since announced
http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/saorview-reception/
http://www.saortv.info/2011/03/16/information-live/

Originally http://www.saorview.ie/ was far worse than saortv.info but now it's far better. So the saortv.info will be revamped to have clear HowTo/DIY on getting Freesat HD and Freeview HD (depending on area) in Ireland, recycling Sky boxes for FTA and adding Saorview (later Saorsat) to cancelled Sky and/or Freesat setups.

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

What a difference 18 months makes, I was impressed with the discussion - MPEG-4/2, iDTVs, overspill, even Saorstat (:D) got a mention, free-to-air satellite etc.

Yes, a considerable improvement. Perhaps all the complaints from last time made an impression. Although her previous effort was so bad, it wouldn't be that difficult to improve upon it. Probably helped too that Kenny had some notion as to what was going on as compared to Dungan.

Macy0161

liamtech wrote: »

We realize that RTE isn't available FTA from this location and that's unfortunate

RTE Radio is FTA from that location - never got why they don't publicise this more on the Radio and features such as this.

On the general front, we have a combo and don't have any major issues with it - the interactive content is on the streams. My father in law has had a FTA receiver for years too. However, I'm not convinced if I wasn't next door I'd be recommending either because of the updating that has to be done. I got me mam a freesat receiver, for the automatic updates as it wouldn't be so easy to get to her.

btw is there any update on the proposed Saorview certified combo, that was talked about a few months ago?

Antenna

watty wrote: »

RF out + DC is going to be history
* Better to have each TV independent
* No Stereo
* No HD
* Uses up minimum 2 channels often 4, interfering with DTT.
* Poor quality
* Extra cost

Viewers often have 4 or more TVs around the house, some not in very much use. Its unlikely that they will splash out on a receiver for every single TV, and its not a bad arrangement to have a modulator in the main receiver feeding other TVs, and its also a backup if another TV's STB were to fail! Ordinary people are not too pushed about stereo sound on TVs in kitchens etc (if these TVs have stereo sound in the first place).

Video senders in ideal conditions are better quality than modulators but usually have poorer quality results due to thick walls/interference/multipath etc.

watty wrote: »

interfering with DTT.

It should usually be possible to pick a channel for a modulator that does not affect their DTT/analogue by someone who knows what they are doing. There are 48 RF channels to choose from. There could be issues if UK DTT and/or analogue is being received as well, but this is a non issue for the majority of people here.
Any interference will only affect TVs in the household not the neighbours or anyone else. (some non-technical people reading this might misunderstand the above to mean other people could be affected!)

Apogee

She mentioned a "growth of almost 40%" in the number of people on FTA satellite in the past year, accounting for "10% of TV household market".

Anyone know the basis for this figure - Comreg??

watty

There was supposed to be a DCENR survey.

Comreg would know nothing about FTA satellite receiver usage.

Also I suppose a high percentage of Sky Churn (not all as some MMDS and Cable installers illegally cut the cable to dish/LNB) is FTA watching.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

There was supposed to be a DCENR survey.

In the past year? Is it online?

Sponge Bob

Apogee wrote: »

In the past year? Is it online?

comreg do NOT survey FTA satellite deployment, counting only Sky subs so that is unreported in Ireland. I estimate up to 25% of households have an unsurveyed sat feed be it FTA Astra2 or Foreign like Cyfra+

watty

Apogee wrote: »

In the past year? Is it online?

There was tender for it. I've not seen it anywhere.

I'd also guess they didn't ask enough people or ask the right questions.

Apogee

Pretty unlikely to be the source of her figures then. Anyone know where she got the 40% growth from?

Apogee

10% figure seems to come from Comreg/Nielsen - 'other satellite' which incorporates foreign/freesat/fta. I guess an increase from 7% of TV homes in Feb 2010 to 10% in Jan 2011 corresponds to 40% increase.



http://www.comreg.ie/publications/comreg_quarterly_report_q4_2010.583.103833.p.html

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

In the past year? Is it online?

Dept of Communications "Report On the Current Television Viewing Mechanisms in Ireland". Discussed here from last August - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998608

I posted this earlier this month

The Cush wrote: »

The results of the survey haven't been published yet but some details appeared recently the Ministerial Decision on the new RTÉ channels.

Behaviour and Attitudes carried out the survey for the Dept.

This from the Ministerial Decision

With a view to informing the Minister on how best to navigate towards analogue
switch off, Behaviour and Attitudes was requested to conduct a survey on TV viewing
mechanisms in Ireland. This survey represents an independent view of TV viewing
mechanisms in Ireland as of November 2010.

Some of the results of this analysis are particularly useful in informing the
determination of the public value of the RTÉ proposals.

In particular, the value of some of the channels (RTÉ Aertel Digital, RTÉ Plus) was
questioned by respondents to the public consultation on new RTÉ Services who
considered that they may be obsolete given the availability and take up of internet
services nationally.

As part of the survey, B&A assessed the level of internet penetration in terrestrial TV
households. The survey found that the take up of internet services amongst terrestrial
TV households was well below the national average (65% take up). In fact, the
survey found that almost 70% of Irish terrestrial only and about 55% of multiterrestrial
TV households do not have internet access;

The survey also highlighted that:

1. 16% of TV homes (c.254k households) rely on terrestrial television. 10%
have access to the Irish TV channels (Irish terrestrial) only, with 6% having
access to the UK channels (multi-terrestrial) also.
2. In addition, about 32% of TV homes (511k) have an outdoor aerial of some
type highlighting that many more TV viewers use the terrestrial services on
secondary TV sets in the home.
3. Rural areas throughout the country are most reliant on terrestrial TV with over
two thirds of terrestrial TV households in rural areas.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres...rsDecision.pdf

Annex 2, page 34 indicates the full report is available on the DCMNR website, it is expected to be published in due course.

Apogee

Can't find it anywhere. Unlikely she has a 'secret' copy of it.

watty

about 32% of TV homes have an outdoor aerial

I wonder how this compares to Wales, Scotland and NI?

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

Can't find it anywhere. Unlikely she has a 'secret' copy of it.

Highly likely she has but I don't think its secret, it just hasn't been released into the public domain yet. An email to the Dept would clarify the situation.

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

Highly likely she has but I don't think its secret, it just hasn't been released into the public domain yet. An email to the Dept would clarify the situation.

In the interview, she quotes a figure of 37% of households with an aerial - same as Comreg figures - as opposed extracts from survey in #39 showing a figure of 32%.