acts, laws, statutes

metrovelvet

Can someone advise as to what the difference in these things are in Irish law?

MagicSean

In a nutshell, Acts are the bodies of legislation. They become statute when passed by the government. A "law" is generally a rule under common law but the term is used by many to mean statute too.

That's how I understand it anyway.

dats_right

Ignore the previous well intentioned poster who is a bit confused themselves. An Act and a Statute are the same thing, which are one of the main sources of
law. Some of the other main other sources of law would include the Constitution, EU and the common law.

Getting back to what an Act or a Statute actually is, well it is a law that is passed by the Legislature. It is also called legislation. The Government is known as the Executive and whilst it may be the main drivers of legislation it does not have the authority to pass it, this is the sole function of the legislature, which in this Jurisdiction is called the Oireachtas and comprises both the Dail and Seanad. Once the Oireachtas passes a Bill (name given to an Act before it is passed into law) it is signed into law by the President.

This is very much just a basic explanation and some of what I have said is overly simplified but will give you a basic understanding of the differences.

MagicSean

I don't think I was incorrect in what I said there. The Act is the main body of the legislation. Often it is not passed in it's entirety but in sections. As these sections are passed they become statute.

metrovelvet

So...is an act the same thing as a law...in other words if you violate something that is written in an act are you breaking the law and vulnerable to prosecution?

MagicSean

If the act makes it an offence and that particular section of the act has been passed into law then you are breaking the law if you act in violation of it.

Wolfe Tone

Lets look at an example to make this clearer....

Lets take the Criminal Justice Act 1990. This is, as the title suggests, an act.


This act was passed through the Oireachtas and implemented. Ie, it was voted on and the president signed it, it became law.


It contains sections such as this...

2.—A person convicted of treason or murder shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

Now that is law, most commonly referred to as statute. This is in order to differentiate between laws enacted by the government and laws built up through case law.


Acts and Statutes are literally the letter of the law. What they say goes.(providing of course they aren't unconstitutional) Convicted of murder? You will be sentenced to life.




I've a splitting migraine atm, but I think that pretty much correct.

I have always thought of it along the lines that k_mac outlined.

Bill: A piece of legislation before it is passed by the Oireachtas.
Act: A piece of legislation as passed by the Oireachtas.
Statute: Provisions of an Act that have been commenced either by commencement date within the Act or by statutory instrument.
Law: A term referring to any rule set down either by statute or judicial pronouncement that is enforceable within the State.

Good example of the Act/Statute difference would be the Multi Units Development Act 2011 which only has 2 commenced sections (now statute) but will come into force in its entirety in a few days.

FreudianSlippers

A statute is written law passed by the legislature, so therefore both bills and acts are statute. Other than that Kayroo's definitions are accurate.

Milk & Honey

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A statute is written law passed by the legislature, so therefore both bills and acts are statute. Other than that Kayroo's definitions are accurate.

Once a Bill is passed it ceases to be a Bill and becomes an Act. Some bills are never passed and never become statutes.
Murder, in fact, is not fully defined by statute and is basically a common law offence.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A statute is written law passed by the legislature, so therefore both bills and acts are statute. Other than that Kayroo's definitions are accurate.

They were working rather than accurate definitions. Jeez! :rolleyes:

FreudianSlippers

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Once a Bill is passed it ceases to be a Bill and becomes an Act. Some bills are never passed and never become statutes.
Murder, in fact, is not fully defined by statute and is basically a common law offence.

Sorry, that's what I meant. I shouldn't have used the word "passed" - proposed may be more appropriate. The point I was trying to make is that both bills and acts are statute.

sammyh

metrovelvet wrote: »

Can someone advise as to what the difference in these things are in Irish law?

As far as I understand, a Law is not the same thing as an act or a statute.

An Act or Statute are not Law, they are written contracts, however, they can be given the force of law when consented to by the goverend (So you must consent for the act / statute to be given the force of law in a nut shell).

Remember that in Ireland, the law society, ie (The court's, Garda, Goverment etc) dont use english like me or you. They have there own language called "legalise" which sound's like english but word's have different meanings. I know it can be very confusing but it's not really when you get your head around that much first.

A quick example, a garda or judge say's to you, "do you understand ?".
Understand in the legalise language is defined as "stand under". So when you say yes I understand, you agree to stand under them and they can do what ever they want to you then !

Another good one is the word "Must" which in legalise term's is synominis with the word "May". So when something says you must do this, or you must pay that or whatever, they are given you a choice. You dont have to contract with them but they want to.

MagicSean

sammyh wrote: »

As far as I understand, a Law is not the same thing as an act or a statute.

An Act or Statute are not Law, they are written contracts, however, they can be given the force of law when consented to by the goverend (So you must consent for the act / statute to be given the force of law in a nut shell).

Remember that in Ireland, the law society, ie (The court's, Garda, Goverment etc) dont use english like me or you. They have there own language called "legalise" which sound's like english but word's have different meanings. I know it can be very confusing but it's not really when you get your head around that much first.

A quick example, a garda or judge say's to you, "do you understand ?".
Understand in the legalise language is defined as "stand under". So when you say yes I understand, you agree to stand under them and they can do what ever they want to you then !

Another good one is the word "Must" which in legalise term's is synominis with the word "May". So when something says you must do this, or you must pay that or whatever, they are given you a choice. You dont have to contract with them but they want to.

This post should not be taken as factual in any way. You are bound by all statute passed. You are also bound by the Constitution. By remaining in Ireland you have consented to be bound by these.

sammyh

That's not true.
Act's & Statutes can only be applied to PERSON or PERSONS.

If you dont agree to represent your person, ie, your legal fictional identity, nothing can be done but trust me the law society will kick and scream to get you to represent your person.

Remember, your not a person. Your a human being.
Human being's have are only bound by god's law, common law and in Ireland, Brehan's law.
Person's however are bound by all law and acts and statutes if the governed consent to it.

In the law society, by simply stating your person name, ie, the name on your birth cert, you have unknowningly consented to representing your person!

No Consent = No rule

blueythebear

sammyh wrote: »

That's not true.
Act's & Statutes can only be applied to PERSON or PERSONS.

If you dont agree to represent your person, ie, your legal fictional identity, nothing can be done but trust me the law society will kick and scream to get you to represent your person.

Remember, your not a person. Your a human being.
Human being's have are only bound by god's law, common law and in Ireland, Brehan's law.
Person's however are bound by all law and acts and statutes if the governed consent to it.

In the law society, by simply stating your person name, ie, the name on your birth cert, you have unknowningly consented to representing your person!

No Consent = No rule

Can you please clarify what God's law is and if this applies if a person is of no religion or of no faith such as buddhism?

This freeman nonsense really annoys me. It's people using word games to get out of paying fines etc and doesn't serve any purpose other than to further clog up an already clogged court system.

MagicSean

sammyh wrote: »

That's not true.
Act's & Statutes can only be applied to PERSON or PERSONS.

If you dont agree to represent your person, ie, your legal fictional identity, nothing can be done but trust me the law society will kick and scream to get you to represent your person.

Remember, your not a person. Your a human being.
Human being's have are only bound by god's law, common law and in Ireland, Brehan's law.
Person's however are bound by all law and acts and statutes if the governed consent to it.

In the law society, by simply stating your person name, ie, the name on your birth cert, you have unknowningly consented to representing your person!

No Consent = No rule

By that logic you can't retain any licence, deed or employment within the state nor can you receive any benefits. I would be interested to see someone stick to this at all times rather than when it suits them to get out of a parking ticket.

MinnyMinor

sammyh wrote: »

That's not true.
Act's & Statutes can only be applied to PERSON or PERSONS.

If you dont agree to represent your person, ie, your legal fictional identity, nothing can be done but trust me the law society will kick and scream to get you to represent your person.

Remember, your not a person. Your a human being.
Human being's have are only bound by god's law, common law and in Ireland, Brehan's law.
Person's however are bound by all law and acts and statutes if the governed consent to it.

In the law society, by simply stating your person name, ie, the name on your birth cert, you have unknowningly consented to representing your person!

No Consent = No rule

nonsense

sammyh

sammyh wrote: »

As far as I understand, a Law is not the same thing as an act or a statute.

An Act or Statute are not Law, they are written contracts, however, they can be given the force of law when consented to by the goverend (So you must consent for the act / statute to be given the force of law in a nut shell).

Remember that in Ireland, the law society, ie (The court's, Garda, Goverment etc) dont use english like me or you. They have there own language called "legalise" which sound's like english but word's have different meanings. I know it can be very confusing but it's not really when you get your head around that much first.

A quick example, a garda or judge say's to you, "do you understand ?".
Understand in the legalise language is defined as "stand under". So when you say yes I understand, you agree to stand under them and they can do what ever they want to you then !

Another good one is the word "Must" which in legalise term's is synominis with the word "May". So when something says you must do this, or you must pay that or whatever, they are given you a choice. You dont have to contract with them but they want to.

This is that pathetic freeman argument isn't it?

Anyone reading the above post should be aware it is both untrue and complete gibberish.

Wolfe Tone

While the freeman stuff is interesting in its own right, I dont think the legal discussion forum is the place for it.

MinnyMinor

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

While the freeman stuff is interesting in its own right, I dont think the legal discussion forum is the place for it.

why not it is about law?

darragh666

MinnyMinor wrote: »

why not it is about law?

Cause threads keep getting hijacked.

mcgarrett

Deleted User wrote: »

This is that pathetic freeman argument isn't it?

Anyone reading the above post should be aware it is both untrue and complete gibberish.

And the freemen can never do anything "illegal" because thats really just a big sick bird.



Sorry :o:o

MinnyMinor

MinnyMinor wrote: »

why not it is about law?

No it's not. It's about a fairy land where nobody ever has to obey regulatory laws like speeding fines or parking meters and we are all legal fictions who only walk upon the land as free men and never as persons unless we want to.

MinnyMinor

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not. It's about a fairy land where nobody ever has to obey regulatory laws like speeding fines or parking meters and we are all legal fictions who only walk upon the land as free men and never as persons unless we want to.

where do
you suggest it is discussed?

MinnyMinor

MinnyMinor wrote: »

where do
you suggest it is discussed?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=234

MinnyMinor

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=234

why take it to fantasy cos you say so. it has interesting points

MinnyMinor

MinnyMinor wrote: »

why take it to fantasy cos you say so. it has interesting points

So does the Lord of the Rings.

It's still fantasy.

blueythebear

MinnyMinor wrote: »

why take it to fantasy cos you say so. it has interesting points

It should be in fantasy as it has no basis in the real world. It's only a means to an end, i.e. people with too much time on their hands trying to avoid paying fines and the like. As said before, if freemen truly believed in their "movement", they would not avail of social welfare or any other form of gainful employment.

dats_right

Deleted User wrote: »

I have always thought of it along the lines that k_mac outlined.

Well then you have also always thought wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

Bill: A piece of legislation before it is passed by the Oireachtas.

Correct

Deleted User wrote: »

Act: A piece of legislation as passed by the Oireachtas.

Nearly, but not quite. An Act is a Bill that has been passed by the Oireachtas and signed into law by the President. Sometimes the Ac will provide for the Minister to commence various sections of the Act at different times, your example below of the Muli-Unit Devolopment Act is a good example of this.

Deleted User wrote: »

Statute: Provisions of an Act that have been commenced either by commencement date within the Act or by statutory instrument.

No, this is wrong. A Statute as I have already pointed out is essentially the same thing as an Act i.e. a written law passed by the Legislature. There is absolutely no requirement that the specific part of the legislation or Act be commenced in order for it to be categorised as a Statute.

Deleted User wrote: »

Law: A term referring to any rule set down either by statute or judicial pronouncement that is enforceable within the State.

Very narrow interpretation, my albeit far from all encompassing definition is better i.e. including the Constitution, EU and common law too.

Deleted User wrote: »

Good example of the Act/Statute difference would be the Multi Units Development Act 2011 which only has 2 commenced sections (now statute) but will come into force, its entirety in a few days.

No, what this is, is an example of an Act or Statute which has sections commencing into law at different dates. The mere fact of the sections commencing at different dates does not mean they are categorised any differently, save that obviously the rights and obligations contained in the uncommenced sections of the relevant act or statute have no legal force until commenced into law.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it is important to get these things right.

johnnyskeleton

Isn't Statute just an old timey way of describing an Act or Legislation?

There might possibly be a slight distinction in that while all Acts are Statutes, not all Statutes are Acts. An "Act" is an Act of a Parliament whereas a Statute could be passed by a monarch, regional governor or some other despotic ruler.

So Statute as a group could include Statutory Instruments or regulations passed by Dublin City Council etc, but to be an Act it must be passed by the Oireachtas and signed by the President in accordance with Bunreacht na hÉireann.

dats_right

dats_right wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic, but it is important to get these things right.

No need to be sorry. You've seen my sig right?

Like I said I wasn't saying they were definitive explanations, just working ones.

I was wrong. Happens.