Your first 15 Non Rugby school players

Tim Robbins

Right here's a challenge. Name your first 15 for players who did not attend a rugby school (or came through the youths system)

15. Mark McCugh (Boyne)
14. Shane Horgan (Boyne)
13. ?
12. Maggs (cheating here as he didn't come through the Irish youths!)
11. Brenden Burke (Barnhall)
10.
9.
8. O'Brien (Tullow)
7. Niall Ronan (Boyne)
6. Trevor Brennan (Barnhall)
5. Mick Galway (Shannon?)
4. Moss Keane (UCC?)
3. John Hayse (Bruff)
2.
1.

durkadurka

Big mal at lock. Templeogue doesn't count!

Tim Robbins

durkadurka wrote: »

Big mal at lock. Templeogue doesn't count!

Actually I phrased the question poorly. I should have said 'Players who came through the youths system'.

That would discount, Galway, Hayse and Moss Keane.

ormond lad

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Right here's a challenge. Name your first 15 for players who did not attend a rugby school (or came through the youths system)

15. Mark McCugh (Boyne)
14. Shane Horgan (Boyne)
13. ?
12. Maggs (cheating here as he didn't come through the Irish youths!)
11. Brenden Burke (Barnhall)
10.
9.
8. O'Brien (Tullow)
7. Niall Ronan (Boyne)
6. Trevor Brennan (Barnhall)
5. Mick Galway (Shannon?)
4. Moss Keane (UCC?)
3. John Hayse (Bruff)
2.
1.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Actually I phrased the question poorly. I should have said 'Players who came through the youths system'.

That would discount, Galway, Hayse and Moss Keane.

durkadurka wrote: »

Big mal at lock. Templeogue doesn't count!

5. trevor hogan(nenagh)
4. donncha ryan(nenagh)
1. ray hogan (nenagh)
you could also put john muldoon(nenagh, portumna,) into the backrow

Cpt_Blackbeard

ormond lad wrote: »

5. trevor hogan(nenagh)
4. donncha ryan(nenagh)
1. ray hogan (nenagh)
you could also put john muldoon(nenagh, portumna,) into the backrow

Ryan went to Munchins for Senior Cup.

ormond lad

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Ryan went to Munchins for Senior Cup.

the year after he had been an irish youth, if you went and asked him the coaches he would thank the most and who did the most to help him become a pro player, they would all be from nenagh. pat whelan, seamus harty, pat fitzpatrick,

Cpt_Blackbeard

ormond lad wrote: »

the year after he had been an irish youth, if you went and asked him the coaches he would thank the most and who did the most to help him become a pro player, they would all be from nenagh. pat whelan, seamus harty, pat fitzpatrick,

Keith Earls would probably say that his father was his biggest influence in becoming a pro, but he still came back to Munchins when the Senior Cup was there to be won in '06.

It still doesn't change the fact that he played Senior Cup (was apparently dropped too) with Munchins.

Danny Barnes is probably a similar story to Ryan actually. Learned his rugby in one place but went to a rugby school when it meant playing Senior Cup and a better chance to stay in the Munster setup.

Ryan probably doesn't matter anyway as he came through the Munster setup anyway.

Tim Robbins

Jamie Hagan - 1. Balbriggan RFC.

Tim Robbins

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Keith Earls would probably say that his father was his biggest influence in becoming a pro, but he still came back to Munchins when the Senior Cup was there to be won in '06.

It still doesn't change the fact that he played Senior Cup (was apparently dropped too) with Munchins.

Danny Barnes is probably a similar story to Ryan actually. Learned his rugby in one place but went to a rugby school when it meant playing Senior Cup and a better chance to stay in the Munster setup.

Ryan probably doesn't matter anyway as he came through the Munster setup anyway.

If they go to a rugby school it doesn't count.

ciarriaithuaidh

Quinnie is a product of Clanwilliam RFC, John Kelly is another who came more through youths system, then played a couple of years with UCC (who he is now involved with I think) and then went to Cork Con.

I know the Schools system is very important, but I still think more attention should be given to the youths system as it is the only net with which to catch those who aren't in the schools system.

Amazotheamazing

Hard to think of an outhalf, Killian Keane maybe? Not sure if he came through the Leinster schools or not?

durkadurka

Where did Elwood go?

GerM

Tommy O'Donnell, Shane Monahan, Stephen Ferris, David McGowan, Eamon Sheridan.

kerrysdad

Mike Galwey came through Castleisland RFC U17's,U18's and U20's,then Munster U18's,then Shannon RFC,then Munster Seniors,then his Ireland debut v France in Lansdowne Road in 1991 after attending Castleisland Community College (deffo not a rugby school !)

ormond lad

outhalf, played for leinster,london irish after starting to play in nenagh

Gelio

ormond lad wrote: »

outhalf, played for leinster,london irish after starting to play in nenagh

Did he not go to a rugby school?

ormond lad

ajeffares wrote: »

Did he not go to a rugby school?

Went to that fine academy of excellence Nenagh CBS.

[Jackass]

To dispess the Leinster D4 myth, here's current squad members who didn't got to the famous private rugby schools Belvedere, Blackrock, St. Marys, Clongowes, Terenure, St. Michales etc...

1.
2.
3. Hagan (Gormanstown)
4. Flanagan (St. Finians)
5.Toner (Castleknock) / Flanagan (St. Andrews)
6. O'Brien (Tullow)
7. Ryan (Gonzaga)
8. Heaslip (Newbridge)

9. Cooney (Gonzaga)
10. McKinley (St. Columba's)
11.
12. Sheridan (St. Pats, Navan)
13.
14. Horgan (St. Mary's - Drogheda)
15. Coughlin-Murray (Newbridge)

I'd say ya'd have a touher time putting together a team of Ulster or Munster natives in the current squads who didn't go to the famous private rugby schools!

Although some of the best rugby schools in the country are in Leinster, so there are plenty of players from the like of Blackrock, Belvedere, Clongowes etc. in the squad...they're almost academies in themselves for Leinster.
(feel free to add to team if you think of someone past or present - Jackman to hooker perhpaps..)

Tim Robbins

[Jackass] wrote: »

To dispess the Leinster D4 myth, here's current squad members who didn't got to the famous private rugby schools Belvedere, Blackrock, St. Marys, Clongowes, Terenure, St. Michales etc...

1.
2.
3. Hagan (Gormanstown)
4. Flanagan (St. Finians)
5.Toner (Castleknock) / Flanagan (St. Andrews)
6. O'Brien (Tullow)
7. Ryan (Gonzaga)
8. Heaslip (Newbridge)

9. Cooney (Gonzaga)
10. McKinley (St. Columba's)
11.
12. Sheridan (St. Pats, Navan)
13.
14. Horgan (St. Mary's - Drogheda)
15. Coughlin-Murray (Newbridge)

I'd say ya'd have a touher time putting together a team of Ulster or Munster natives in the current squads who didn't go to the famous private rugby schools!

Although some of the best rugby schools in the country are in Leinster, so there are plenty of players from the like of Blackrock, Belvedere, Clongowes etc. in the squad...they're almost academies in themselves for Leinster.
(feel free to add to team if you think of someone past or present - Jackman to hooker perhpaps..)

In case it wasn't obvious, the thread is looking for players who played their rugby growing up in the youths system.

[Jackass]

Didn't all of them bar the Gonzaga and Newbridge players?

Tim Robbins

[Jackass] wrote: »

Didn't all of them bar the Gonzaga and Newbridge players?

If that's the case, you should be naming the club not the schools.

Amazotheamazing

[QUOTE='[Jackass]
I'd say ya'd have a touher time putting together a team of Ulster or Munster natives in the current squads who didn't go to the famous private rugby schools!

[/QUOTE]

Easily done. All the schools in Limerick city are fairly much open to anyone. Ardscoil is a CBS, Castletroy and Crescent are comprehensives and Munchins is the Diocesan school. Ardscoil must the biggest overachievers in Irish sport, won back to back Harty Cups and lost the Junior Cup final this year and the school only has one pitch.

So
Horan, Sherry, Hayes
POC, Ryan
Quinlan, TOD, Varley (backrower in his youth, iirc....)
Murray
Cusack
Kuntz
Earls
Murphy
O'Mahony
Jones (seemingly St. Andrews somehow counts?)

bamboozle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Hard to think of an outhalf, Killian Keane maybe? Not sure if he came through the Leinster schools or not?

he went to skerries, his younger brother also went to skerries and is now playing with Old Belvo in the AIL.

myflipflops

[Jackass] wrote: »

the famous private rugby schools!

..)

Define 'famous private rugby schools'.

Gonzaga, Castleknock, St Andrews and Newbridge are all private, fee paying schools whose main sport is rugby. It just so happens they are less successful than the likes of Blackrock, Belvedere, St Michaels for various reasons.

Risteard

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Easily done. All the schools in Limerick city are fairly much open to anyone. Ardscoil is a CBS, Castletroy and Crescent are comprehensives and Munchins is the Diocesan school. Ardscoil must the biggest overachievers in Irish sport, won back to back Harty Cups and lost the Junior Cup final this year and the school only has one pitch.

So
Horan, Sherry, Hayes
POC, Ryan
Quinlan, TOD, Varley (backrower in his youth, iirc....)
Murray
Cusack
Kuntz
Earls
Murphy
O'Mahony
Jones (seemingly St. Andrews somehow counts?)

Stick Wallace in the back row.

JustinDee

myflipflops wrote: »

Define 'famous private rugby schools'.

Gonzaga, Castleknock, St Andrews and Newbridge are all private, fee paying schools whose main sport is rugby. It just so happens they are less successful than the likes of Blackrock, Belvedere, St Michaels for various reasons.

Rugby is the main sport at St Andrews? Would have thought it was a split between rugby and hockey myself, like King's Hospital and Wesley College.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Easily done. All the schools in Limerick city are fairly much open to anyone. Ardscoil is a CBS, Castletroy and Crescent are comprehensives and Munchins is the Diocesan school. Ardscoil must the biggest overachievers in Irish sport, won back to back Harty Cups and lost the Junior Cup final this year and the school only has one pitch.

So
Horan, Sherry, Hayes
POC, Ryan
Quinlan, TOD, Varley (backrower in his youth, iirc....)
Murray
Cusack
Kuntz
Earls
Murphy
O'Mahony
Jones (seemingly St. Andrews somehow counts?)

I'd go for:

Horan, Flannery/Cronin, Hayes
Ryan, POC
Quinlan (Not Limerick, but can't think of anyone else), Wallace, TOD
Reddan/ Murray
Jeremy Staunton
Barnes
Murphy
Earls
O'Mahony
Dennis Hurley

9 Munchins lads ain't bad

thebaz

[Jackass] wrote: »

To dispess the Leinster D4 myth, here's current squad members who didn't got to the famous private rugby schools Belvedere, Blackrock, St. Marys, Clongowes, Terenure, St. Michales etc...

1.
2.
3. Hagan (Gormanstown)
4. Flanagan (St. Finians)
5.Toner (Castleknock) / Flanagan (St. Andrews)
6. O'Brien (Tullow)
7. Ryan (Gonzaga)
8. Heaslip (Newbridge)

9. Cooney (Gonzaga)
10. McKinley (St. Columba's)
11.
12. Sheridan (St. Pats, Navan)
13.
14. Horgan (St. Mary's - Drogheda)
15. Coughlin-Murray (Newbridge)

I'd say ya'd have a touher time putting together a team of Ulster or Munster natives in the current squads who didn't go to the famous private rugby schools!

Although some of the best rugby schools in the country are in Leinster, so there are plenty of players from the like of Blackrock, Belvedere, Clongowes etc. in the squad...they're almost academies in themselves for Leinster.
(feel free to add to team if you think of someone past or present - Jackman to hooker perhpaps..)

i'd have buckley at 3 (newbridge)
murphy at 11 (newbridge)
mcloughlin at 4 (gonzaga)
doyle (gonzaga) at hooker

newbridge and gonzaga produce as many good players as some of the supposed big 6 - so they should be included as rugby schools i would think

Tim Robbins

thebaz wrote: »

i'd have buckley at 3 (newbridge)
murphy at 11 (newbridge)
mcloughlin at 4 (gonzaga)
doyle (gonzaga) at hooker

newbridge and gonzaga produce as many good players as some of the supposed big 6 - so they should be included as rugby schools i would think

Unfortunately this was supposed to be a thread about players who came through the youths system not players who came from outside the big six in Leinster.

There are youth leagues and cups, you know with some pretty handy teams and players. Even though they only train once a week on average.

thebaz

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Unfortunately this was supposed to be a thread about players who came through the youths system not players who came from outside the big six in Leinster.

There are youth leagues and cups, you know with some pretty handy teams and players. Even though they only train once a week on average.

gretstones i know have a few handy players - some i think going into academy - they won the u17 last year

Tim Robbins

thebaz wrote: »

gretstones i know have a few handy players - some i think going into academy - they won the u17 last year

That's right. They are very good. There are more clubs in Leinster than schools so it's not against the laws of probability that you'll get a few handy players. One huge problem is the mismatches you get. You get plenty of 70 - 0 matches. Schools is more streamlined.

Youths is more regionalised. So you might have a very strong New Ross team walking the south east, a very strong Boyne team walking the North East and very strong Barnhall team walking the metro.

In an ideal system, you'd have them streamlined - the way the schools is.
So Blackrock play Clongows instead of Newpark. It would be better if the strongest youth teams met each other regularly.

marknjb

where did the claw start

ormond lad

1. ray hogan (nenagh)
2.
3. jamie Hagan (balbriggan)
4. trevor hogan (nenagh)
5. trevor brennan (barnhall)
6. Donncha Ryan (nenagh)
7. john muldoon (nenagh,portumna)
8. Sean O'Brien (Tullow)
9.
10. declan cusack (thomond)
11. danny barnes (tralee)
12. Eamon Sheridan (Navan)
13.
14. Shane Horgan (boyne)
15.

16.
17.
18. tommy o donnell (clanwilliam)
19. dave foley (clonmel)

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

1. Ray Hogan (nenagh)
2. ????
3. Jamie Hagan (balbriggan)
4. Trevor Hogan (nenagh)
5. Trevor Brennan (barnhall)
6. Donncha Ryan (nenagh)
7. John Muldoon (nenagh,portumna)
8. Sean O'Brien (Tullow)
9. Tom Tierney (Richmond)
10. Barry Everitt(Nenagh)
11. Danny Barnes (Tralee)
12. Eamon Sheridan (Navan)
13. Declan Cusack (Thomond)
14. Shane Horgan (Boyne)
15. Mark McHugh(Boyne)

16.
17.
18. tommy o donnell (clanwilliam)
19. dave foley (clonmel)

that id bump this thread
Tom Tierney was a youths player, he can go scrum half
Mark mcHugh(Boyne) at full back
Hooker is the only position that im struggling to find at least 1 player

Risteard

Sean Henry? Says in an interview with Munster he was with Connacht Youths.

GerM

Henry would have played for Connacht Schools. Similar situation for Connacht hooker Dermot Murphy who played for Irish youths but won the Connacht Schools Cup with Coláiste Iognaid.

Gordon Gecko

myflipflops wrote: »

Define 'famous private rugby schools'.

Gonzaga, Castleknock, St Andrews and Newbridge are all private, fee paying schools whose main sport is rugby. It just so happens they are less successful than the likes of Blackrock, Belvedere, St Michaels for various reasons.

In modern parlance "rugby school" is a term to describe schools that are consistently excellent at Junior and Senior cup level, e.g. Blackrock. In Leinster, for example, the term "rugby schools" is synonymous with the Big 6. Hence neither of the 4 schools mentioned above can be considered "famous private rugby schools" as the cup has not been won by one of them in 41 years (Newbridge) and in Gonzaga's case they have yet to progress past the quarter final stage of the competition.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to define "rugby schools" like this but it's the norm in rugby circles.

thebaz

[QUOTE=Gordon Gecko;74937381 in Gonzaga's case they have yet to progress past the quarter final stage of the competition.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to define "rugby schools" like this but it's the norm in rugby circles.[/QUOTE]

as someone who played in one of the many quarter final defeats - what is it about green jerseys and quarter final defeats - still havnt got over last saturday - on the football buzz now

handsomecake

elitest game is elitest

handsomecake

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

In modern parlance "rugby school" is a term to describe schools that are consistently excellent at Junior and Senior cup level, e.g. Blackrock. In Leinster, for example, the term "rugby schools" is synonymous with the Big 6. Hence neither of the 4 schools mentioned above can be considered "famous private rugby schools" as the cup has not been won by one of them in 41 years (Newbridge) and in Gonzaga's case they have yet to progress past the quarter final stage of the competition.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to define "rugby schools" like this but it's the norm in rugby circles.

rightly or wrongly i always see rugby schools as rich people who" get ahead" of their proletariat brethren.im harking back to the 90's though