Cork - Playground photography prohibited

Paulw

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfeysnkfgbsn/rss2/

Any thoughts??

Seems like a very sad state of affair.

City-Exile

Paulw wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfeysnkfgbsn/rss2/

Any thoughts??

Seems like a very sad state of affair.

Can't see such a big problem.
There are plenty places you can take pictures of your kids, so not using your camera in a playground shouldn't be such a hindrance.

sheesh

Surely that would inconvenience every parent that wanted to take a picture of their child enjoying the swings.

Surely you would need to demonstrate that something like this happens alot to pass an actual law against it (yes I know you don't. you just have to be a parent and irrationally shout "I LOVE MY CHILDREN AND WANT TO PROTECT THEM!").

tororosso

Paulw wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfeysnkfgbsn/rss2/

Any thoughts??

Seems like a very sad state of affair.

A pathetic response to sensationalised fears. However the other bye laws in that article are also very ott and controlling! So you can't take photos in the playground but outside the gate you can?! Strange really but I see this thing happening more and more...

gbee

To stop older teenagers from taking over playgrounds, the bylaws stipulate that no children over 12 years of age will be allowed to use the play equipment and nobody will be allowed to cycle or skateboard. Ball playing will be outlawed.

You know, you might as well just close the 'playground' outright.

Paulw

Interesting wording though -

The draft document states "no person, unless they are a member of a family, shall operate, or use a camera, camera phone, video or any other media device in a playground without authorisation from the council".

Now, to me, everyone is a "member of a family", since every person has a mother/father, etc.

It doesn't seem to state that you have to be a member of a family member playing in the playground. Grounds for a legal challenge??? :rolleyes:

smelltheglove

The draft document states "no person, unless they are a member of a family, shall operate, or use a camera, camera phone, video or any other media device in a playground without authorisation from the council".


Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfeysnkfgbsn/rss2/#ixzz1HcDpvG9Y

Now thats a bit of a silly draft in all honesty. Come on, Im not the smartest person in the world but even I can see someone arguing around this saying, well it says only members of a family can photograph, but sure Im a member of a family! Its tiny little details and technicalitys like this that get people off the hook! If they are going to be so over the top and sensationalist they could sure as hell at least write a law which cannot be gotten past! When it comes to the law it has to be word for word and even though common sense says member of the childs family, this draft law does not.

komodosp

Now, to me, everyone is a "member of a family", since every person has a mother/father, etc.

Orphans not allowed take photos then?

DaireQuinlan

komodosp wrote: »

Orphans not allowed take photos then?

Naturally not, to lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness. You can't have careless people wandering around playgrounds in the first place, they might fall over and injure the children. Because, you know WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

It's a stupid ridiculous kneejerk proposal. I'd say reactionary but I'm not sure they're reacting against anything, I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a rash of paedophiles leering at kids in playgrounds recently in cork, accompanied by their cameras to take pictures ...

Here's a picture I took in a playground when my kid wasn't around. OH NO I'M OBVIOUSLY SOME SORT OF PERVERT !

johnmcdnl

"no person, unless they are a member of a family, shall operate, or use a camera, camera phone, video or any other media device in a playground without authorisation from the council"

No other media device means no more Ipod, no more laptop. as well as no more camera...

DaireQuinlan

gbee wrote: »

You know, you might as well just close the 'playground' outright.

Actually, as a parent of two young kids, It's actually really annoying when you have groups of 14/15/16 yr olds hanging around in the playgrounds. Normally they're pretty courteous , if you ask them to leave a swing for example because your 3 year old wants to use it they will, or stop booting a football about the place, but there are always a few ***holes.

komodosp

No other media device means no more Ipod, no more laptop. as well as no more camera...

..or magazine or newspaper!

baby and crumble

I guess if there's an injury no-one can call an ambulance, since a phone is a media device?

It's just really poorly worded. I'm no legal expert, but c'mon, there's holes the size of the moon in that!!

Paparazzo

This is like something from a comedy sketch. Do paedos go out to playgrounds to take photos of kids or something? Will paedophilia rates drop in cork? Sounds like a rule a councillor had made up, but no one will question it because no one wants to be against a law that "protects children".

Obviously the council have never heard of zoom lenses, and think that kids are teleported from their houses, to the playground, and back to their houses again.

Thecageyone

Ah, good Ol' cameranoia.

As someone who really has no interest in taking photos of anyone in a playground either way, what strikes me most about this, is that it's such a generalisation.

A paedophile taking photos of kids in a playground? It has to be the most ridiculous stereotype of paedophiles out there.

Paedophiles aren't exactly the most loved people in the world, so why in the name of god would they be running around taking photos of children in a playground (where parents are, 90% of the time, present)?


Why can't it just be "it is unlawful to photograph minors in a playrgound without prior permission or consent from the child's parent or guardian"? But even then, it doesn't make any sense, as most paedophiles don't go around with model releases anyway. They usually work away quietly enough, don't they?

Paulw

I guess with this, even a childminder, employed to mind the kids, would be breaking this by-law, if they took photos of the kids.

sineadw

Ugh.. this is just wrong on so many levels. Feckin eejits is about all I can articulate.

Paparazzo

People will go along with anything, no matter how stupid, if they're told it's against pedophiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NesjvRihbEg

CabanSail

Personally I think this is a very positive and responsible move by Cork County Council. It is a well established fact that most peaodophiles have taken at least one photograph in their lives, often with a child in it. So this is a logical move that CCC can take to protect chidren. Let's face it, sales of cameras today cannot be accounted for by terrorists alone, so there must be another group that uses them. The only problem I can see is that they are not going far enough.

Do you realise that when questioned, nearly every paedophile has a habit of drinking Tea or Coffee. They indulge in this habit while thinking about children in unacceptable ways. Cork County Council should thus ban the consumption of these drinks within a kilometre of a child.

You do know that peadophiles wear shoes? Well what we should do is ........

cnocbui

I'm all for it - IF - the proponents of the legislation can show that an unacceptable number of children have come to harm as a result of them being photographed in a playground.

In other words, legislation should not be used to attempt to fix problems thet don't exist.

Shulgin

Brass eye is more real than ever

OldGoat

PhotoWalkChallange - Cork.
Theme: Playground and children.
To the nearest CCC playground but remembering to stay outside the boundary fence.

Bag of lollipops for the most thanked picture.

DeVore

This law will work so long as paedo's dont know about zoom lenses.


D'OH!!! >.<

DeV.

K_user

You all know where this is going don’t you?

A mother takes out her phone and takes a snap shot of her kids, no problems, no one says a word.

A father walks through the park carrying his DSLR, but not actually using it, and the police get called because photography isn’t allowed…

Now I can understand what this law is trying to say, but the application seems a little nanny state.

Besides are pedo’s really going to walk into the middle of a play park and start snapping away at random kids with their massive DSLR and 300mm lens?

Here is a tip, if you see a man playing with one kid, laughing, calling him/her by name, the child is calling him “dad”, chances are he’s the parent. But if you see a guy sitting on a bench, talking to no one, camera out and photographing any kid that walks by…

opti76

what if im taking a photo of my child and another persons child is in the background .. does this mean im not allowed to photograph my child...

a nonsense law ... pure nonsense.

what if a paedophile is working for the council monitioring the cameras ... what then .. or if a paedophile brings his/her own kids to a park .. surely the paedophile law is mute then because a family member is allowed to photograph in the park ..

Freddie59

Sigh. A sad state of affairs. But a sign of the times, unfortunately. Our children are all now adult, but we took loads of photos (P&S sadly:() of them in the park, at the beach, in the bath, etc.

As one other poster has pointed out, where does it end - especially if someone else's child is accidentally in the background. "shall not operate a camera phone". Very badly worded. This could be interpreted by some denso as being that you cannot evenBRING the phone into the playground. Sigh again. A silly law. Even for Ireland.

thebaz

sad state of affairs alright - personally , i have pretty much stopped taking photos of kids - then you look at the law for actual paedophiles - a judge is caught red handed with abusive sick images, and gets off on a technicality -

are all swimming instructors and internet users, paedophiles as well ???

lets promote hysterical paranoid, and focus less on rooting out the actual sick behaviour

CabanSail

I am not affected by these particular laws, being a long way from Cork, but it had me thinking.

Let's say a Photographer who is also a Paedophile goes into a playground and takes some photo's of children at play. The images will be of fully clothed children having fun. If there is any sexulisation it will only be inside the head of a viewer who thinks that way. There has not been any harm done to anyone at this stage.

If to obtain images of something that is desirable and then have corrupt thoughts is a crime, then I am guilty of stealing loads of lenses, cameras, cars and aircraft. If it's only sexual thoughts then those who look at blatantly sexual advertising must surely be guilty of rape?

I really do fail to see how photography in a public space like this is doing any harm, no matter who takes the images.

humberklog

Once they balance it up by banning kids taking pics of grown ups in pubs.

minikin

This is completely unworkable... only commonsense thing to do is to ban children from playgrounds - thereby completely removing all risk.

dakar

minikin wrote: »

This is completely unworkable... only commonsense thing to do is to ban children from playgrounds - thereby completely removing all risk.

Actually, we could completely put those nasty paedophiles out of business once and for all in one simple step. Ban children.

Can't believe no-one's thought of this before...

professore

I personally think you should not be allowed to take a picture of anyone, especially children, without they (in the case of adults) or their parents permission.

My son died of a serious illness last year and my wife recently put his name into Google. Pictures of him appeared in hospital which we were never asked to consent to along with other seriously ill children, many of whom may also have passed away, due to the nature of the ward he was in. The site in question was selling these pictures for profit.

As you might imagine it was extremely upsetting for us. I am sure it was an oversight on behalf of the photographer, but it would be a simple thing to sign a consent form clearly explaining what the pictures were to be used for. I would have no issues with photos in which people are not clearly identifiable or anything else.

charybdis

professore wrote: »

I personally think you should not be allowed to take a picture of anyone, especially children, without they (in the case of adults) or their parents permission.

The law is quite clear in this area. You don't need permission to take photographs of people. I can understand why people might think otherwise, but it's not the case for some very good reasons.

professore wrote: »

My son died of a serious illness last year and my wife recently put his name into Google. Pictures of him appeared in hospital which we were never asked to consent to along with other seriously ill children, many of whom may also have passed away, due to the nature of the ward he was in. The site in question was selling these pictures for profit.

As you might imagine it was extremely upsetting for us. I am sure it was an oversight on behalf of the photographer, but it would be a simple thing to sign a consent form clearly explaining what the pictures were to be used for. I would have no issues with photos in which people are not clearly identifiable or anything else.

This, on the other hand, sounds quite illegal indeed. Did you consult a solicitor or the hospital on this issue? It may be a slightly grey area if the site is affiliated with the hospital, but I still think you'd have good grounds to stop them selling pictures of your son.

I'm also at a loss to see the purpose of a site selling images of children in hospitals. Are trying to sell images to the patient and their family, or the images as stock photography, or just general pictures of sick kids as art?

thebaz

charybdis wrote: »

The law is quite clear in this area. You don't need permission to take photographs of people. I can understand why people might think otherwise, but it's not the case for some very good reasons.

there are many places where you are prohibited from taking photographs, only with permission , and a pass - e.g. prisons - and this is only right - I would have thought all hospitals were the same - i know some definitly are, and for a good reason, as per professore sad experience.

bizarely you are not allowed take pics around Dublin port , the reasons are vague, someone told me a threat of terrorism , and an irate security guard told me i risked causing an explosion , by merely pressing the shutter - God knows what is in those tanks that would be so sensitive

sineadw

jesus professore that's awful. And i'd have serious concerns even if it *was* the hospital's website - the fact that you came to the image by typing in your son's name sounds like a very serious breach of the data protection act.

I know (all too well unfortunately) that it's emotionally hard sometimes to press issues around the death of your child, but l'd urge you to get in contact with the hospital administration about this. It just sounds wrong.

IPWS

Some of you may be aware of the proposed Playground Bye Law going through public consultation at Cork County Council.

Item 24 reads:
“No person, unless they are a member of a family, shall operate or use a camera, camera phone, video or any other media device in a playground without authorization from the Council. However CCTV may be utilized by the Council and / or An Garda Siochana in an approved manner.”

I believe photography and photographers are good for society and that if this law is passed it will lead to more and more restrictions on photographers - it is time to nip this in the bud. Join The Photography is Good for Society Cause and voice your opinion to the lawmakers before it is too late.

In addition please do spread the word about this campaign - do it the old fashioned way by talking in the pub, if you are a geek - blog it, tweet it and Facebook it - whatever you do please spread the word.

Paulw

Already being discussed here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056219271

I was thinking, if this law were to brought to Drogheda, would I care? Then I realised I would. But I'd do something useful, like pester the local government types about it, and write to the council and local radio station that has a show on this kinda thing.

An online poll is a waste of time.

magicbastarder

why would a kiddy fiddler take photos of kids in public anyway?
i doubt they sit at home banging themselves off to imagery which is freely available on nickelodeon or on the internet already, in vast quantities, without any risk of being caught.

IPWS

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking, if this law were to brought to Drogheda, would I care? Then I realised I would. But I'd do something useful, like pester the local government types about it, and write to the council and local radio station that has a show on this kinda thing.

An online poll is a waste of time.

Thanks for your feedback - please do get on the radio because if it gets thru in Cork then it will spread. This is going through public consultation and if we have enough people supporting the cause then we can present that to the council. It is all about steps. So please so Join the cause

IPWS

You may be interested

This story is the subject of todays The Journal.ie Poll.

Many thought it was an April Fool Joke.

Please vote and have your say.

Then join the cause

Have a good weekend and keep taking pictures.

sineadw

IPWS wrote: »

You may be interested

This story is the subject of todays The Journal.ie Poll.

Many thought it was an April Fool Joke.

Please vote and have your say.

Then join the cause

Have a good weekend and keep taking pictures.

I'm currently writing about this very story for my dissertation, and a few things have struck me that I wouldn't mind some clarification on:

In the Journal.ie article, it says the by-law will ban photography in playgrounds. It won't - it'll ban people who aren't a member of a family from taking photographs. Whilst I agree that both the law and its wording are infinitely ridiculous, I'm not sure muddying the waters like that will particularly help. If people see that and then realise that it'll still be ok for *them* to take photos of their kids, you're gonna shoot yourself in the foot somewhat. Even if we all here agree that this will most likely lead to an outright ban in all practicality.

Secondly, public parks are *not* public spaces as far as I understand it, and are therefore governed by the same rule that you need to ask permission anyway, so technically this changes nothing. What it *does* do is further marginalise the camera by a weird double-legislation of the issue. Am I wrong in my reading of that?

On a final, personal note, PLEASE make something other than a Facebook 'causes' page. It reduces the subject to something of a game, with cutesy graphics and 'levels', and also most sane people I know blocked that app (along with every other one on Facebook) because of the stupid amount of spam they generate. You don't need anything fancy - even a facebook page for people to 'like' would be far more effective.

jcf

This is f**cking ridicolous !!! ???

Why would photos of kids anyway be banned as a protection for them ?
Privacy really isn't being infringed upon ...

It's not like it's a beach or a swimming pool where they will be in togs ??

Ridicolous - IDIOTS who worry about this sensationalised media crap and then
they won't think twice about feeding their kids processed junk.

Which is more dangerous to kids???


what a JOKE Ireland has become.

IPWS

Hi Sinead, My campaign is simply Photography is Good for Society - I am not qualified to comment on the specifics of the law. Regarding the campaign on Cause - that is simply the platform I choose. My worry would be changing now will dilute the campaign. We have a limited time as the public consultation ends April 20th. Please do call me on 086 2666 260 if you want to chat more

IPWS

Hi Sinead, My campaign is simply Photography is Good for Society - I am not qualified to comment on the specifics of the law. Regarding the campaign on Cause - that is simply the platform I choose. My worry would be changing now will dilute the campaign. We have a limited time as the public consultation ends April 20th. Please do call me on 086 2666 260 if you want to chat more

gbee

Doing some Confirmation photographs today at a church and was asked to sign a form as part of the new rules & regs.

Paulw

gbee wrote: »

Doing some Confirmation photographs today at a church and was asked to sign a form as part of the new rules & regs.

Who asked you to sign? What did it say? Did you sign it?

jaybeeveedub

CabanSail wrote: »

Personally I think this is a very positive and responsible move by Cork County Council. It is a well established fact that most peaodophiles have taken at least one photograph in their lives, often with a child in it. So this is a logical move that CCC can take to protect chidren. Let's face it, sales of cameras today cannot be accounted for by terrorists alone, so there must be another group that uses them. The only problem I can see is that they are not going far enough.

Do you realise that when questioned, nearly every paedophile has a habit of drinking Tea or Coffee. They indulge in this habit while thinking about children in unacceptable ways. Cork County Council should thus ban the consumption of these drinks within a kilometre of a child.

You do know that peadophiles wear shoes? Well what we should do is ........

couldn't have put it better....

good old inductive reasoning.... David Hume is spinning in his grave... and probably making indecent sketches of underage worms...

gbee

Paulw wrote: »

Who asked you to sign? What did it say? Did you sign it?

The PP, forms were in his office and it will be posted out to me, has not arrived yet, so I don't know what it says, but it must be done before next Confirmation or Communion.

K_user

So due to new regulations images like this are illegal:



Just in case the photographer is a paedo…

Yet pictures like this are hanging in peoples bedrooms, bathrooms, on cards and on posters across the world and no one look twice at someone buying one in a shop…

http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=36365

Go figure...