Tenant eviction process

scorn

Hi all,

In a bit of a pickle here. We have some tenants in a property since December 2010. The first month's rent and deposit were paid on the day in cash with no problems.

However, since then we have had to chase the rent every month. The first month was ok - we understand things can be difficult to get used to and we suggested they set up a direct deposit.

The second month was a bit more irritating - numerous phone calls, many excuses but eventually the rent was deposited 2 weeks late.

This month it's already a week overdue - with the excuse that it was put in the quick deposit envelope in the bank a few days ago. A phone call to the bank disproves this (as we also had to do last month).
To top it off, we have now been contacted by Airtricity to say that the electricity is in arrears and will be disconnected if not paid. The tenants assured us that they would change the name (we are unable to put it in a third party name - it has to be done by the third party).

So - we are tired of the stress and constant phoning and checking up on these tenants so want them out. The problem is - what notice do we have to give if the rent is still currently unpaid.

If we have to give notice, we will be chased by the bank for the mortgage while they get to live rent-free until the end of the notice period. We will then have to find new tenants while the property is vacant (and probably have to spend on cleaning etc) and by this stage the deposit money will be more than spent...

Any advice is welcome - unfortunately the property is not near where we live but we will be there on the weekend and would like to know our rights.

Thanks for the help.

JonJoeDali

Worst case scenario, the tenants can simply stop paying rent and it would take you at least a year or two to get them out.

ztoical

With regards to Airtricity I'd call them up and close the account. If the tenants want power they can call and open their own account.

Right now you need to issue then with a 14 day rent arrears notice [I've not clue if it needs to be 14 working days or just 14 days best check with the PRTB or someone else on here might know] If they haven't paid within the 14 days you can issue a Notice of Termination and start the eviction process baring in mind it's going to take sometime.

scorn

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Worst case scenario, the tenants can simply stop paying rent and it would take you at least a year or two to get them out.

Yeah - aren't the PRTB great...

scorn

ztoical wrote: »

If they haven't paid within the 14 days you can issue a Notice of Termination and start the eviction process baring in mind it's going to take sometime.

As far as I'm aware I can issue a Notice of Termination in the first six months without having to explain why.

But as JJD above said, if they stop paying rent completely it could take months to sort out...

I believe that I have to give 28 days notice regardless - there's no quicker route and even then if they don't move out there's not a lot we can do. Will have to be far more picky about who take it on the next time around - the law is definitely in the tenants favour.

ztoical

scorn wrote: »

As far as I'm aware I can issue a Notice of Termination in the first six months without having to explain why.

Thats for a Part 4 tenancy, if you've signed a 12 month fixed term lease that does not have a break clause you can only give notice if they break the lease which by not paying the rent they are doing but a notice of termination may be served only if the rent due has still not been paid 14 days after the tenants gets written notification from the landlord of the amount owing.

scorn

ztoical wrote: »

Thats for a Part 4 tenancy, if you've signed a 12 month fixed term lease that does not have a break clause you can only give notice if they break the lease which by not paying the rent they are doing but a notice of termination may be served only if the rent due has still not been paid 14 days after the tenants gets written notification from the landlord of the amount owing.

Ah - thanks for that clarification. We have a 12 month lease agreement - I'll have to re-read the terms on it to see where we stand (though I think what is being said above are statutory rights, regardless of a lease agreement).

So if I understand you correctly, we have to wait 14 days for the rent, if it's not then paid we have to give written notification that it's not paid. Only 14 days after that can we issue a notice of termination?

Is there somewhere I can read up on these procedures in plain English?

Cathmandooo

scorn wrote: »

Is there somewhere I can read up on these procedures in plain English?

Have a look at this link:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

I realise you're the landlord wanting a tenant out but it gives you the breakdown of the whole process.

scorn

Thanks Cathmandoo - clears that up nicely.

I presume then that the letter can then be sent the first day that rent is late. 14 days later it can be followed up by notice for termination.

So no more phoning every day chasing rent - just send a letter then leave it up to them.

Now - where's my pen...

Zamboni

What happens if the termination notice is served correctly and the tenant still doesn't leave?

ztoical

Zamboni wrote: »

What happens if the termination notice is served correctly and the tenant still doesn't leave?

Then starts the long process of bringing them to the PRTB, getting a a determination order from the PRTB and hoping the tenants follow it. If they don't then back to the PRTB to show failure to comply and then get the PRTB to apply to the Circuit Court for an Order directing the party concerned [ie the tenants] to comply. The hope you have is that the tenants will move before going through all that but there are alot of people who are well aware of their rights and will dig their heels in as they know if the LL tries to lock them out or in anyway harass them not only will the tenant not have to move out but they can look for compensation from the LL for an illegal eviction.

Zamboni

ztoical wrote: »

Then starts the long process of bringing them to the PRTB, getting a a determination order from the PRTB and hoping the tenants follow it. If they don't then back to the PRTB to show failure to comply and then get the PRTB to apply to the Circuit Court for an Order directing the party concerned [ie the tenants] to comply. The hope you have is that the tenants will move before going through all that but there are alot of people who are well aware of their rights and will dig their heels in as they know if the LL tries to lock them out or in anyway harass them not only will the tenant not have to move out but they can look for compensation from the LL for an illegal eviction.

I can see why a previous thread seemed to suggest it's better to kick them out and change the locks and deal with any legal proceedings as it works out more efficient in both time and cost.

Dymo

Zamboni wrote: »

I can see why a previous thread seemed to suggest it's better to kick them out and change the locks and deal with any legal proceedings as it works out more efficient in both time and cost.

Maybe in the short term but by looking at any of the court cases where this has happened the landlord have always being sued successfully for between €5,000-€15,000. Maybe its a chance you want to take.

ztoical

Dymo wrote: »

Maybe in the short term but by looking at any of the court cases where this has happened the landlord have always being sued successfully for between €5,000-€15,000. Maybe its a chance you want to take.

+ 1 not only can they sue but they can go to the PRTB and get a ruling to be let back into the property and your right back were you started.

antoinolachtnai

I would really speak to a solicitor at this stage if you're not familiar with the whole process.

The airtricity thing is an extra kink. If you were to cut off the power, that would be a big problem, it would amount to an unlawful eviction. If airtricity cut it off, it's a less clear-cut situation. It is very important that the tenant can not say they did not know about the electricity bill.

I would ask the solicitor about this.

djmcr

Dymo wrote: »

Maybe in the short term but by looking at any of the court cases where this has happened the landlord have always being sued successfully for between €5,000-€15,000. Maybe its a chance you want to take.

You got to love this country, don't pay your rent and get compensated for it if the LL doesn't dot every i and cross every t correctly in getting his property back

scorn

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The airtricity thing is an extra kink. If you were to cut off the power, that would be a big problem, it would amount to an unlawful eviction. If airtricity cut it off, it's a less clear-cut situation. It is very important that the tenant can not say they did not know about the electricity bill.

They are well aware that they are responsible for the Airtricity bill. Airtricity have a record of them being contacted by the tenants in December but for some reason the name wasn't changed on the bill.

The bill has had to have been arriving at the house but under our name. The tenants have not told us there is mail there, and must have 'assumed' that electricity was suddenly free...

I have just read under the rules for terminating a fixed term contract:

Once a tenant has remained in occupation of a dwelling for a period of 6 months, he or she acquires
the benefit of a Part 4 tenancy under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (the “Act”).

I presume that because they have only been there 3 months that I then don't have to follow this Part 4 protocol? I'm still looking to see what I can do lawfully then if it's less than 6 months. Any ideas?

antoinolachtnai

The issue is really whether you can prove to the Tribunal that they understood the situation. There is little or no discovery at the Tribunal, you cannot compel the production of documents by the other party or a third party. Airtricity might be helpful on the phone but not want to get involved later on.

You still have to give proper notice and if they don't leave, you still have to go to the PRTB.

If you do not know the law on this area, you really need advice from someone experienced and/or a solicitor.

scorn

Thanks for that antoinolachtnai.

I really don't think that the fact that I am looking for a bit of advice here should warrant that I seek the advice (and expense) of a solicitor. All I'm after is a basic understanding of landlord rights with regards to non-payment of rent. You and other posters have been helpful and I understand the course of action open to me at this point.

If, however, (and as you point out) they refuse to leave then that is probably the time that I will seek legal counsel.

Thanks again.

Ciara22

Just on the Electricity issue, I would advise that you close your account with Airtricity. Then call ESB and set up a new account in the tenants names. ESB are not so strict on who opens the account so you will have no problems doing this.

The ESB say it will take roughly 10-20 days to complete the transfer but the power wont be cut off in the meantime. They will contact Airtricity directly also to verify that they are taking back the account.

Just a note of advice, never move a tenant in without getting all the utilities in their name. This means that if they are ever in arrears, the bill follows them and doesnt stay with the property.

With regard to the notice of termination, you need to give a written notification that the rent is late (could be served when the rent is at least 1 day late), then you can send a 14 day notice letter on the same day, and on the 15th day, you need to send a further 28day notice letter.

However, if the tenants just decide they dont want to leave, then yes, you need to take the PRTB dispute route. They process these claims faster than any others but still takes time.

antoinolachtnai

The problem is to do with time. If you don't serve your notices correctly, you may find yourself having to re-serve after a month. If you are not careful you will find yourself in a position where a month or six weeks has elapsed and notice has not been served. you would then face a further delay before you could even begin action at PRTB. In the meantime you could see your property, which may be the most valuable thing you own, destroyed.

You are right that this will probably pan out ok and they will just leave. However there is always a risk that a tenant will take advantage, especially if you do not seem to have a firm grip of the legal situation.

If you don't know the business yourself, then it would help to get advice from someone more experienced about the human side of dealing with things. (not necessarily a solicitor).

Remember this is a business you are running and if you need advice you should look for it. Money is tight for everybody but a few hundred euro is very little compared to the value of your investment.

That is why I say to get advice. It could be a solicitor, another landlord or an organisation like the IPOA. Or you could put in the hours to research everything yourself. But just remember, this is a serious business with big pitfalls so be careful.

I would be reticent about previous poster's advice on electricity. Just a judgement call but switching it to a new supplier without tenant's consent does not seem a good idea in circumstance and there is almost no benefit to be had from it from landlord's point of view.

ztoical

scorn wrote: »

I presume that because they have only been there 3 months that I then don't have to follow this Part 4 protocol? I'm still looking to see what I can do lawfully then if it's less than 6 months. Any ideas?

You said you signed a fixed term lease with them therefore they can't avail of a 4 part tenancy until the terms of the lease is up regardless of wither they pay the rent or not.

Ciara22

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The problem is to do with time. If you don't serve your notices correctly, you may find yourself having to re-serve after a month. If you are not careful you will find yourself in a position where a month or six weeks has elapsed and notice has not been served. you would then face a further delay before you could even begin action at PRTB. In the meantime you could see your property, which may be the most valuable thing you own, destroyed.

You are right that this will probably pan out ok and they will just leave. However there is always a risk that a tenant will take advantage, especially if you do not seem to have a firm grip of the legal situation.

If you don't know the business yourself, then it would help to get advice from someone more experienced about the human side of dealing with things. (not necessarily a solicitor).

Remember this is a business you are running and if you need advice you should look for it. Money is tight for everybody but a few hundred euro is very little compared to the value of your investment.

That is why I say to get advice. It could be a solicitor, another landlord or an organisation like the IPOA. Or you could put in the hours to research everything yourself. But just remember, this is a serious business with big pitfalls so be careful.

I would be reticent about previous poster's advice on electricity. Just a judgement call but switching it to a new supplier without tenant's consent does not seem a good idea in circumstance and there is almost no benefit to be had from it from landlord's point of view.

How is there no benefit to the landlord here? If it stays in his name, he is liable to pay it and all the arrears. He has given the tenants ample chance to change it with the current supplier and they havent availed of it. The only way to put the supply in their name is by using a different supplier. Its not illegal by any means and if the tenants wish to switch back to a cheaper supplier they are free to do so.

antoinolachtnai

Because it may be to the advantage of the OP if the power is cut off for non payment.

The arrears have already been run up and the ESB will not be in a position to move the arrears to the tenant's account.

The landlord has no righ that I can seet to make the switch for the tenant. Switching is a matter for the tenant. Just because the ESB permits it does not mean it is legally ok. The landlord may have a duty of care to the ESB To disclose the full circumstances. If the OP does this I do not think ESB will accept the customer.

syklops

OP, you keep referring to them as 'They' so it is obviously not an individual. Is ts a couple? Or is it 2 or more individuals?

I ask for a reason btw.

scorn

There is a couple in there, plus one other. The lease is in the name of the male partner of the married couple...

We went over there today and spoke to the wife. She gave us the cash and we told her that if it's one day late again, they will get their notice of termination. That, and the fact that they stuck a dirty great satellite dish on the front face of the house without asking us first.

syklops

scorn wrote: »

There is a couple in there, plus one other. The lease is in the name of the male partner of the married couple...

We went over there today and spoke to the wife. She gave us the cash and we told her that if it's one day late again, they will get their notice of termination. That, and the fact that they stuck a dirty great satellite dish on the front face of the house without asking us first.

Well there are a few things that come to mind. First off, "we told her that if it's one day late again, they will get their notice of termination", if you go into this with that kind of attitude this is going to be a lot more painful than necessary. Also, if it is the male partner whose name is on the lease it is him you should be dealing with.

With regard to the satellite dish, what was does the lease say in that regard? I am guessing it doesn't say anything, and if you are going to go the legal route, you need to stick to clear and recorded facts. Otherwise it will sound like you are looking for problems. While they may be an eye sore, satellite dishes are considered to be a part of modern living, and unless its a listed building, or there is a proviso in the lease that the installation of a dish is forbidden, it will not be considered as a reason to evict them.

The issue is really whether you can prove to the Tribunal that they understood the situation.

Thats why I asked how many were in the house. All you need is for the individual, to stand in front of the Tribunal and say "I did not realise the situation was so bad. The first I heard of it was when we got served with the eviction notice", and your case weakens.

Do you normally get the rent in cash? If so, I would highly recommend getting them to do a bank transfer. That way you can have documentary proof that they paid the rent late, where as in cash there is less of a paper trail.

If I were you, I would document everything, in a journal, e.g.
March 24th Rent late again
March 30th Letter from Airtricity - Bill remains unpaid. etc etc.

That way it will be clear to anyone reading it, that they are troublesome.

BostonB

Personally I'd let them be late, then give them notice, and then let the airtricity
be cut off. You'll have nothing but trouble from these tenants.

scorn

Thanks syklops, all very true but sometimes some things are unavoidable...

syklops wrote: »

Also, if it is the male partner whose name is on the lease it is him you should be dealing with.

We have to make a trip across country to get to the house, so if there's only one person there that's all you can talk to...

syklops wrote: »

With regard to the satellite dish, what was does the lease say in that regard? I am guessing it doesn't say anything...

Actually, the lease is very particular about modifications and even singles out aerials etc. Written permission has to be obtained from the landlord before such modifications are made. I would not deny them the dish, but I would have stipulated it be attached to the side of the house with an h-shaped pole (about a tenner). I would also have made sure that the wire feed into the house is not through the window which is now clamped shut against the wire - probably not the best for the window frame.

syklops wrote: »

Do you normally get the rent in cash? If so, I would highly recommend getting them to do a bank transfer. That way you can have documentary proof that they paid the rent late, where as in cash there is less of a paper trail.

If I were you, I would document everything, in a journal, e.g.
March 24th Rent late again
March 30th Letter from Airtricity - Bill remains unpaid. etc etc.

That way it will be clear to anyone reading it, that they are troublesome.

We keep asking them to arrange a bank transfer, but you can't force this. It might be an idea to do so in future lease agreements (if that's legal).

We are documenting all our dealings with them - and generally we don't take the cash personally (due to the distance involved) so we have a record of the late payments.

We will see how the next month or two goes and decide from there. Our previous tenants were a dream - I guess we were lucky!

antoinolachtnai

If you or your agent are accepting rent in cash, be sure the tenant has a rent book. If they don't, get them one without delay.