Being bullied by a pupil!?

eirn

I'm an NQT with regular subbing hours in a local school (lucky, I know)
Tough enough school, but overall, I'm pretty settled now and enjoying my work. My only major problem is with one pupil in a Learning Support class that has severe behaviour issues.
He shows no respect for himself or anyone else.
One of my family members died by suicide a few months ago, he makes snide comments, and informs any pupil that didn't already know, about the exact details and circumstances of her death (it's a small town = we were the subject of intense gossip for months, he's from an area close to my homeplace)
He's so difficult to deal with, constantly uses abusive language and completly refuses to do any work, or even take a book out of his bag some days. He is frequently suspended, removed from classrooms, put on detention, etc. it has no impact on him. He's in a junior year in a secondary school.
I feel that I can't take this to the Principal/year head because I don't want them to think that what happened in my family affects my ability to do my job or manage my classes (in general it doesn't) I also can't imagine being able to talk about this without crying. I feel so down and stressed just thinking about my next class with him.

Toto Wolfcastle

He has no right to mention your personal life. If nothing you have done so far has worked and if you are unwilling to take it to the year head or higher, then you will just have to live with it. And I don't think you want to just live with it.

Apart from the comments about your personal life, have you been applying the discipline code consistently with this student when he misbehaves? If the student is particularly difficult it may not work, but if you haven't been doing so start now.

The principal and year head are not going to think that your family life is affecting your ability to do your job. What the student is doing is thoroughly inappropriate and will be dealt with accordingly. As I said, unless you are willing to take it further then it will not stop.

hilloftara

the principal i dont think would feel like that,you will have to go to him/her and tell him whats going on,his parents have to be informed,if that was my child i would prefer to know so i could do something about it,bullying is not to be tolerated no matter who you are and as you probably know a lot of teenagers do commit suicide because of bullying ,you are probably one of many for this young lad.you will have to report him

eirn

thanks for your replies.
I don't think any teacher stricly imposes the school's disciplinary procedeures with this kid! His behaviour is so bad it just wouldn't be possible, he would literally never get through a class without being put on detention.
I also feel that because there's only a few kids in the L.S. class, I'd feel daft having to put him on report every time, and again, I think people would just feel that I couldn't manage a class (no job security at all, don't want to rock the boat).
It just couldn't be more awkward and painful having to bring this up with senior members of staff (especially as I'm not sure if my principal knows my situation).
I assume the student might get yet another suspension, (a few days off in the sunshine) and then the reason why would spread like widfire, and come back to me again. But I suppose I'll have to. It's a horrible situation.

floating voter

You have 2 choices.

1. Go official and implement school disciplinary procedures. you said you are nervous of this route and i understand the reason why you are nervous.

2. Plan B. It is a special class. The principal does not feel you are doing a bad job, You obviously have been managing fairly well, this issue excluded, continue with what you are doing.
Perhaps try to admit defeat with this particular student and look at the bigger picture.
8 weeks max time left. He is frequently suspended, summer exams etc will reduce this time.
Try to flick the switch in your head that controls your response to this student.

Say the alcoholics prayer frequently.
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

spurious

Call in his parents and tell them what is happening.

Give them the old 'I don't want to take this further so hopefully we can sort it out without involving the Principal or Health and Safety legislation'. He is their responsibility. Let them take it.

Possible outcomes:
Decent parents - mortified and will make sure he never speaks to you again.
Other - follow it up with a visit by you and your union rep to the Principal. Mention the magic terms 'Health and Safety at work, safe workplace, right to work without this' and see what happens.

Pwpane

eirn wrote: »

I'm an NQT with regular subbing hours in a local school (lucky, I know)
Tough enough school, but overall, I'm pretty settled now and enjoying my work. My only major problem is with one pupil in a Learning Support class that has severe behaviour issues.
He shows no respect for himself or anyone else.
One of my family members died by suicide a few months ago, he makes snide comments, and informs any pupil that didn't already know, about the exact details and circumstances of her death (it's a small town = we were the subject of intense gossip for months, he's from an area close to my homeplace)
He's so difficult to deal with, constantly uses abusive language and completly refuses to do any work, or even take a book out of his bag some days. He is frequently suspended, removed from classrooms, put on detention, etc. it has no impact on him. He's in a junior year in a secondary school.
I feel that I can't take this to the Principal/year head because I don't want them to think that what happened in my family affects my ability to do my job or manage my classes (in general it doesn't) I also can't imagine being able to talk about this without crying. I feel so down and stressed just thinking about my next class with him.

I'm so sorry, what a tough situation.

If this student is constantly making remarks, and if your family was the subject of intense gossip, then the Principal probably knows all about your family member's suicide but has had the tact to say nothing.

This stress is not affecting your ability to do your job or manage your classes. It is however affecting your health. This is different. This is something you can ask for help with without letting yourself down.

Is there any other place this student could possibly go besides your class? Maybe another teacher would agree to take him temporarily. If there is, then talk to someone who can help - the chaplain, the deputy principal, the principal, and ask for him to be moved for a week to give you a break and to give him a chance to break the cycle. Make an appointment and talk privately. Don't worry about crying if it happens. It shows concern and grief about family, not weakness about your job. In a situation like this, it's ok.

I do understand your dilemma, though, of worrying if it would possibly make the situation worse.

If so, then go the other route.

It is nearly the end of the year. Hold on, and it'll soon be over.

eirn

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I decided this morning that I would take it to his year head. It’s too serious an issue to let go, and I shouldn’t have to put up with it. I filled in a report on the problem in vague enough terms. The year head was great about it, as was the principal. The pupil was hauled in, got a severe telling off, and was made to apologise to me. He was told that his parents would be brought in if his behaviour towards me continued to be an issue. Have another class with him later, will see if it makes a difference.

cucbuc

eirn wrote: »

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I decided this morning that I would take it to his year head. It’s too serious an issue to let go, and I shouldn’t have to put up with it. I filled in a report on the problem in vague enough terms. The year head was great about it, as was the principal. The pupil was hauled in, got a severe telling off, and was made to apologise to me. He was told that his parents would be brought in if his behaviour towards me continued to be an issue. Have another class with him later, will see if it makes a difference.

Thats good, well done. It cant have been easy for you.I'm teaching a long time, (24 yrs)and it might sound obvious, but if you don't do something to change a situation like this, it only gets worse.
The effect of the telling off etc may not last too long but if/when the situation deteriorates again (and it may well do, judging by the sound of things) you need to make sure the student gets pulled up on it again, and again, if need be.
There is nothing wrong with asking for support, especially when you are an NQT. You sound like a teacher who is good at their job, so don't let it get you down when one pupil makes life in the class difficult. Unfortunetly, theres (almost)always another to fill their shoes when they have moved on. This situation, though, sounds like it was possibly the toughest and most distressing one you may ever have to deal with in your career,because of the personal nature of it. Even so, its all experience, it all makes you a bit stronger and more resilient for the following year.
Sorry if I sound a bit like ye olde granny teacher, but anyway, hope it helps a little, and I wish you well.:)

Dionysus

eirn wrote: »

My only major problem is with one pupil in a Learning Support class that has severe behaviour issues.
He shows no respect for himself or anyone else.
One of my family members died by suicide a few months ago, he makes snide comments, and informs any pupil that didn't already know, about the exact details and circumstances of her death (it's a small town = we were the subject of intense gossip for months, he's from an area close to my homeplace)
He's so difficult to deal with, constantly uses abusive language and completly refuses to do any work, or even take a book out of his bag some days. He is frequently suspended, removed from classrooms, put on detention, etc. it has no impact on him. He's in a junior year in a secondary school.
I feel that I can't take this to the Principal/year head because I don't want them to think that what happened in my family affects my ability to do my job or manage my classes (in general it doesn't) I also can't imagine being able to talk about this without crying. I feel so down and stressed just thinking about my next class with him.

1. This has nothing to do with you. The sooner you accept this fact the better.

2. I was just called a "big thick" today by a student who sounds strikingly like your own. He previously called me "a thick" and, as I said to the principal (after I removed him from the class, of course): "I got a promotion". Kids like this cannot see beyond themselves. They cannot, of course, be seen to get away with this stuff. They must be seen to be punished. Long-term, however, there is other stuff going on there and in the case of my student above it's ADHD and his huge frustration at himself for falling behind the rest of the class and desire to bring them down with him. In short, he shouldn't be in the school. The same seems to be the case with your student.

3. You must bring it to the principal's attention immediately. If you don't you can expect to be walked on in that school. It may be just him now, but watch it spread if other kids see you not asserting your authority. Furthermore, you must be entirely honest with the principal. The sooner you lay your cards on the table the better for you. Everybody concerned will appreciate it. Keeping aspects of this situation secret is a recipe for the continuation of your current treatment. Be confident in yourself and direct to the principal. No principal wants a member of staff to be going through this sort of stuff. Your mental health is most important here. Tell him/her first thing tomorrow morning. Put an end to this now!

All the best.

Dionysus

eirn wrote: »

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I decided this morning that I would take it to his year head. It’s too serious an issue to let go, and I shouldn’t have to put up with it. I filled in a report on the problem in vague enough terms. The year head was great about it, as was the principal. The pupil was hauled in, got a severe telling off, and was made to apologise to me. He was told that his parents would be brought in if his behaviour towards me continued to be an issue. Have another class with him later, will see if it makes a difference.

Good. But, you should know that ringing his parents directly is one of the first steps you should take (after journal marking and detention if you're into it - which I'm not). It's usually very effective and most parents appreciate it. I'd ask the principal in advance as, at least in my case, they can tell me what the parents are like beforehand. This "insider information" can be very, very important in certain schools where alcohol and other drugs as well as mental illness are involved. In fact, from experience I wouldn't ring unless I got that insider information first.

kermitpwee

Dionysus wrote: »

Good. But, you should know that ringing his parents directly is one of the first steps you should take (after journal marking and detention if you're into it - which I'm not). It's usually very effective and most parents appreciate it. I'd ask the principal in advance as, at least in my case, they can tell me what the parents are like beforehand. This "insider information" can be very, very important in certain schools where alcohol and other drugs as well as mental illness are involved. In fact, from experience I wouldn't ring unless I got that insider information first.

I am amazed at these style threads, never take that type of treatment from a student. Take action swiftly in future or the problem will escalate. If you did the same to that student you would be sacked.

implausible

Dionysus wrote: »

Good. But, you should know that ringing his parents directly is one of the first steps you should take.

This isn't the first time I've seen this type of advice posted. In many schools, it is not within the class teacher's remit to do this. Phoning home is only done by a yearhead in my school. To be honest, there is often a strong link between bad behaviour like this and the parents not giving a s*t, so even if made, the phonecall is likely to be ineffective. Ringing home tends to work only with kids from good homes.

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted Eirn. Kids can be very cruel and often, you just have to keep reminding yourself that s/he is only a teenager.

Dionysus

deemark wrote: »

This isn't the first time I've seen this type of advice posted. In many schools, it is not within the class teacher's remit to do this. Phoning home is only done by a yearhead in my school. To be honest, there is often a strong link between bad behaviour like this and the parents not giving a s*t, so even if made, the phonecall is likely to be ineffective. Ringing home tends to work only with kids from good homes.

This isn't the first time you've shown a marked incapacity to understand the English language and consequently resorted to a caustic attack on a poster. Let's take it slowly, very slowly shall we: "I'd ask the principal in advance as, at least in my case, they can tell me what the parents are like beforehand.....[and for emphasis] In fact, from experience I wouldn't ring unless I got that insider information [from the principal] first." In other words (if you're still struggling) I would only ring home if the principal okayed it.

Furthermore, you do, of course, mean in your experience it's "likely to be ineffective" - oh wait, but you also said it's not your job to make that call so how would you know. In my experience it is highly effective. Maybe in your school they quite simply do not trust you to make that phone call in a dignified, kind and classy manner.

Dionysus

kermitpwee wrote: »

I am amazed at these style threads, never take that type of treatment from a student. Take action swiftly in future or the problem will escalate. If you did the same to that student you would be sacked.

Why you think ringing the parents amounts to "taking this type of treatment from a student" is beyond me. Rather it is clearly informing the parents directly of what their child is up to. I'm baffled that you can think this is not appropriate if the principal is fine with it, or that this would be the sole course of action in the event of a serious problem in the class - for reasons best known to yourself you appear to have missed my advice to inform the principal immediately. Or even that it is suited to every parent - I made it clear it wasn't. It is, however, often an effective means to bring to an end behaviour which is unacceptable.

rainbowtrout

Dionysus wrote: »

This isn't the first time you've shown a marked incapacity to understand the English language and consequently resorted to a caustic attack on a poster. Let's take it slowly, very slowly shall we: "I'd ask the principal in advance as, at least in my case, they can tell me what the parents are like beforehand.....[and for emphasis] In fact, from experience I wouldn't ring unless I got that insider information [from the principal] first." In other words (if you're still struggling) I would only ring home if the principal okayed it.

Furthermore, you do, of course, mean in your experience it's "likely to be ineffective" - oh wait, but you also said it's not your job to make that call so how would you know. In my experience it is highly effective. Maybe in your school they quite simply do not trust you to make that phone call in a dignified, kind and classy manner.

Pot, kettle, black, Dionysus?

Totally uncalled for and I seriously hope you don't speak to your students in the manner in which you have just posted.

I understood perfectly what deemark posted. We generally don't ring home ourselves, we go through the yearhead. The parents that are interested do take notice of phonecalls/letters etc. But often those that don't care do not pass any heed.

rainbowtrout

Dionysus wrote: »

Not at all. I overlooked a previous attack by her, and I note she has acted similarly to other people on this thread. If you're familiar with my posts here over the past 3+ years, you'll be aware that I've never responded to anybody else here like that. Seeing as you're patently unfamiliar with her posting style and record I'd suggest you only post about things which you're aware of.



You must feel very comfortable with your specious comments on that high horse. When you come down from it, let us all know. :rolleyes:

I'm very familiar with deemarks post. They usually make sense and are to the point. So you can cast your aspersions elsewhere.

P.S. you weren't fast enough with your 'chimera' edit. :rolleyes:

Dionysus

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Pot, kettle, black, Dionysus?

Totally uncalled for.

Not at all. I overlooked a previous attack by her, and I note she has acted similarly to other people on this Forum. If you're familiar with my posts here over the past 3+ years, you'll be aware that I've never responded to anybody else here like that. Seeing as you're patently unfamiliar with her posting style and record I'd suggest you only post about things which you're aware of.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I seriously hope you don't speak to your students in the manner in which you have just posted

You must feel very comfortable with your specious comments on that high horse. When you come down from it, let us all know. :rolleyes:

Toto Wolfcastle

Stop with the personal attacks on other posters. Stay on topic. If this sort of thing continues I will start issuing infractions and bans. This goes for everyone. Do not respond to this warning on thread. There will be no exceptions.

kermitpwee

Dionysus wrote: »

Why you think ringing the parents amounts to "taking this type of treatment from a student" is beyond me. Rather it is clearly informing the parents directly of what their child is up to. I'm baffled that you can think this is not appropriate if the principal is fine with it, or that this would be the sole course of action in the event of a serious problem in the class - for reasons best known to yourself you appear to have missed my advice to inform the principal immediately. Or even that it is suited to every parent - I made it clear it wasn't. It is, however, often an effective means to bring to an end behaviour which is unacceptable.

Very simple explanation here. I didn't mean to quote what you had said in your post. I pressed the wrong button. I was trying to quote the original poster. If I had done this properly "taking this type of treatment from a student" would have been in relation to the OP allowing a student to talk about her relations suicide and not dealing with it swiftly.

My sincerest apologies for having done this, I can imagine you frustration and amazement at reading my post. Hope I didn't ruin your day.

Sibylla

OP I seriously think you should tell the principal, Making personal comments towards a teacher in front of the class is only going to disturb the other pupils, Also he has absolutely no right to mention your personal life. I understand he is a difficult pupil but this is disgraceful behavior that needs to be dealt with.

seavill

Dionysus wrote: »

In short, he shouldn't be in the school.
.

Dionysus,

Can I as why you feel this student shouldn't be in your school?

implausible

Dionysus wrote: »

This isn't the first time you've shown a marked incapacity to understand the English language and consequently resorted to a caustic attack on a poster.

<snip>

Maybe in your school they quite simply do not trust you to make that phone call in a dignified, kind and classy manner.

Em, where did this come out of?! I have read and re-read my post and I cannot see where I have made "a caustic attack on a poster" or how my advice to the OP that ringing home is not always within the remit of the class teacher could be construed as an attack.

Seriously, I'm speechless here and as for the last comment....

Toto Wolfcastle

Righteo, the OP has had his/her question answered so I think we're done here.

Thread locked.