Smart move by M McGuinness - " Joint First Minister " of NI

PatsytheNazi

In recent days the main unionists party's have been raising the temp in the run up to the Assembly elections set to campaign on the issue of keeping Martin McGuinness out of the First Minister. However M McG has made the offer that SF would change the title of First Minister and Deputy First Minister to that of Joint First Minister if they become the largest single party in the north. Seems Martin McGuinness has succeeded in wrong-footing them both whilst appearing to be generous at the same time.

Like them or loathe them, smart move by SF all the same ?

http://www.u.tv/News/McGuinness-ready-to-share-First-Minister-job/c58e4480-6cce-4da9-bfbb-a0b20c0b1886

( It should be pointed out that the position First Minister, is equal to the position of Deputy First Minister in all but name, but the main unionist parties still want to make a Punch and Judy match out of it. )

KeithAFC

Seems like some one is admitting defeat.

PatsytheNazi

KeithAFC wrote: »

Seems like some one is admitting defeat.

How ? M McG has defalted their ballon of turning the election of " Stop McGuinness from been First Minister " with his concillatory gesture ? Peader Robinson of the DUP was lost for words on UTV stumbling and mumbling.

sollar

A great democracy up there - you wouldn't see the likes of it in the school yard. The UUP and DUP are making a show of themselves.

Wolfe Tone

Very conciliatory move by MMG too, I could picture some unionists refusing to sit under him as first minister.

southsiderosie

NI set up democratic institutions, and if SF is democratically elected to be the largest party in the region, I see no reason why they should change the name of anything. Setting aside the fact that it is all kabuki theater anyway, everyone should have to abide by the political institutions agreed upon. If unionists can't agree to respect the fact that being the largest party in government has its privileges, how could they ever deal with being an overall political and demographic minority in the future?

It is time for people to grow the fcuk up. Then again, that is the basic response to almost any thread on Northern Irish politics.

jimmycrackcorm

It's a great example of accommodating inclusiveness though - it's a pity we don't have more politics like that.

cyberhog

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

( It should be pointed out that the position First Minister, is equal to the position of Deputy First Minister in all but name,

They have the same powers and authority but as long as McGuinness is referred to as a deputy he will always be viewed as a subordinate. The DUP wouldn't stand for being viewed that way and neither should Sinn Féin. I think it's high time the title was changed.

LordSutch

cyberhog wrote: »

They have the same powers and authority but as long as McGuinness is referred to as a deputy he will always be viewed as a subordinate. The DUP wouldn't stand for being viewed that way and neither should Sinn Féin. I think it's high time the title was changed.

But why would they want a self proclaimed former IRA operative as 1st Minister :rolleyes:

Keep him deputy I say.

bmaxi

LordSutch wrote: »

But why would they want a self proclaimed former IRA operative as 1st Minister :rolleyes:

Keep him deputy I say.

Anyone who reads my posts will know I'm no fan of SF but if they are returned as the largest party then surely Mc Guinness is entitled to be First Minister, that's democracy.

PatsytheNazi

LordSutch wrote: »

But why would they want a self proclaimed former IRA operative as 1st Minister :rolleyes:

Keep him deputy I say.

Well if that was the case then no one would end up doing business with no one. As we can see from the picture, the unionists are in no position to be pointing fingers at anyone.

But if M McG becomes First Minister and he still proposes to share the title as Joint First Minister - will you still oppose it ? And how would you describe your politics DUP, UUP or are you from the south FG/FF/Labour/whatever who will oppose SF regardless ?

junder

Only magnanimous if he actully had a chance, as it is he would need to have a twelve seat swing to become first minister

OhNoYouDidn't

LordSutch wrote: »

But why would they want a self proclaimed former IRA operative as 1st Minister :rolleyes:

Keep him deputy I say.

Patsy beat me too it. Quite alright for the nationalist community to have to have a former loyalist terrorist as first minister, but the unionists cannot be expected to make the same compromise.

They hypocricy of the unionists and their useful idiots in the south knows no bounds.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Patsy beat me too it. Quite alright for the nationalist community to have to have a former loyalist terrorist as first minister, but the unionists cannot be expected to make the same compromise.

They hypocricy of the unionists and their useful idiots in the south knows no bounds.

To be fair the worst thing that Robinson ever did was to 'invade' Clontibret in Monaghan and then shout and screm like a moron for an hour until some Gardaí came along to carry him away.

MMG was involved in a bombing campaign that killed people.

That said I'd like to see MMG become First Minister.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

To be fair the worst thing that Robinson ever did was to 'invade' Clontibret in Monaghan and then shout and screm like a moron for an hour until some Gardaí came along to carry him away.

MMG was involved in a bombing campaign that killed people.

That said I'd like to see MMG become First Minister.

Agreed. But the narrative that only the nationalists are expected to move on is all over the forum this week, from paddies day parades to kids posing with toy guns.

danbohan

Denerick wrote: »

To be fair the worst thing that Robinson ever did was to 'invade' Clontibret in Monaghan and then shout and screm like a moron for an hour until some Gardaí came along to carry him away.

MMG was involved in a bombing campaign that killed people.

That said I'd like to see MMG become First Minister.

ogh really , you lived in northern ireland in 70s and 80s did you when paisley and robinsion were stoking unionist fears and marching up hillsides with their third force carrying gun licences , both those individuals have as much blood on their hands as anybody else

danbohan

junder wrote: »

Only magnanimous if he actully had a chance, as it is he would need to have a twelve seat swing to become first minister

yes , lets get back to pre 1969 and make sure them there taigs cant get votes and not be messing around with good unionist democracy

PatsytheNazi

danbohan wrote: »

ogh really , you lived in northern ireland in 70s and 80s did you when paisley and robinsion were stoking unionist fears and marching up hillsides with their third force carrying gun licences , both those individuals have as much blood on their hands as anybody else

Others in the UUP such as Lord David Trimble were openly invovled with the paramilitary Ulster Vanguard in the mid 1970's.

Ulster Vanguard http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O245-UlsterVanguard.html

Sugarfree

Is this the worlds first democracy without an opposition? Crazy little province.

sanbrafyffe

its funny the way polotics work.MMG offering a joint first minister if the dup accept,doubt it thou and it hasnt been passed in the n.i.assembly.but a nice offer thou.sinn fein more than likely will be the largest party and will continue to be for the longest future unless dramatic change.imagine MMG was n.i's favourable poloticain with 29%overall. 14% from catholics and 15% from the protestants.weird aint it,i suppose when you think of it back in the 70's most of the catholics voted for paisl;ey

junder

danbohan wrote: »

yes , lets get back to pre 1969 and make sure them there taigs cant get votes and not be messing around with good unionist democracy

Who mentioned pre 1969, me thinks you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. In the present stormont set up that sinn fein have agreed to be a part they need to gain a 12 seat swing in their favour which Easter rising, 1798 blah, Blah, blah, insert historical date here, blah, aside is not going to happen in this election, even sinn fein know this.

karma_

junder wrote: »

Who mentioned pre 1969, me thinks you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. In the present stormont set up that sinn fein have agreed to be a part they need to gain a 12 seat swing in their favour which Easter rising, 1798 blah, Blah, blah, insert historical date here, blah, aside is not going to happen in this election, even sinn fein know this.

It could happen. It may not this election but there is a very real chance it might.

By the way, did anyone catch the UTV news there with Paisley, Robinson & McGuinness all saying wonderful things about each other?

Something I never thought I'd see, I now feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Denerick

danbohan wrote: »

ogh really , you lived in northern ireland in 70s and 80s did you when paisley and robinsion were stoking unionist fears and marching up hillsides with their third force carrying gun licences , both those individuals have as much blood on their hands as anybody else

Sorry to go down this line, but I can recall a time when you said that were I active during the troubles I would have been scuttled across the border by the IRA and shot between the eyes. I can dig up the exact post for you if you like. Now repeat after me, 'those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...' x 1,000

Bottle_of_Smoke

junder wrote: »

Who mentioned pre 1969, me thinks you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. In the present stormont set up that sinn fein have agreed to be a part they need to gain a 12 seat swing in their favour which Easter rising, 1798 blah, Blah, blah, insert historical date here, blah, aside is not going to happen in this election, even sinn fein know this.

Could happen if SDLP lose seats to Sinn Fein and TUV/UUP take some of DUP's

The SDLP don't look like they'll take any seats from SF and Alliance may grow but it will probably be from unionist demographics. Also in the last election DUP got 36 and SF 28 - so if SF gained 5 and DUP lost 4, SF would be biggest party.

UUP/DUP have already discussed proposals for a pact to get first minister if SF are the largest party. They surely wouldn't have bothered with that if there was no chance of it happening.

I'd like to see the fall of both DUP and SF myself. Full of horrible people with vanguard mindsets and people who put ideology before logic.

Denerick

The problem is though that the SDLP lack direction. Ritchie is a terrible politician - almost totally lacking in charisma. I seriously cringe any time I see her on TV. Even worse than Joan Burton of the Labour party, seriously bad material.

The SDLP don't know what they are for anymore. They've pretty much got what they wanted in politics.

gurramok

So for the Unionists, its only democracy when it suits. Seems the mentality has not moved on.

junder

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Could happen if SDLP lose seats to Sinn Fein and TUV/UUP take some of DUP's

The SDLP don't look like they'll take any seats from SF and Alliance may grow but it will probably be from unionist demographics. Also in the last election DUP got 36 and SF 28 - so if SF gained 5 and DUP lost 4, SF would be biggest party.

UUP/DUP have already discussed proposals for a pact to get first minister if SF are the largest party. They surely wouldn't have bothered with that if there was no chance of it happening.

I'd like to see the fall of both DUP and SF myself. Full of horrible people with vanguard mindsets and people who put ideology before logic.

It would take a complete collapse in the dup vote, the tuv have really gone as far as they can, can't really see the alliance getting anymore votes either, highly unlikely naomi Campbell will keep her east Belfast seat next time around, as for the uup until they get a half decent leader they are not going anyware

PatsytheNazi

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Could happen if SDLP lose seats to Sinn Fein and TUV/UUP take some of DUP's

The SDLP don't look like they'll take any seats from SF and Alliance may grow but it will probably be from unionist demographics. Also in the last election DUP got 36 and SF 28 - so if SF gained 5 and DUP lost 4, SF would be biggest party.

UUP/DUP have already discussed proposals for a pact to get first minister if SF are the largest party. They surely wouldn't have bothered with that if there was no chance of it happening.

I'd like to see the fall of both DUP and SF myself. Full of horrible people with vanguard mindsets and people who put ideology before logic.

Appearently the bookies have the DUP as favourites to be the largest single party. I think you will see the DUP and SF rise by a few seats each in their number of seats. The DUP been seen as the 'hard' men of unionism, SF will gain as the Stoopy's ( SDLP ) are nothing but fresh air and vague cliches. Another factor that may have some bearing on SF outperforming the Stoopy's will have been their good showing in the southern elections.

One issue that must be taken into consideration is voter turnout. Their's going to be quite a lot of apathy. However I expect a better turnout of unionists, as nationalists are included to see Stormont as a bland talking shop - which is what it is.

Bottle_of_Smoke

junder wrote: »

It would take a complete collapse in the dup vote, the tuv have really gone as far as they can, can't really see the alliance getting anymore votes either, highly unlikely naomi Campbell will keep her east Belfast seat next time around, as for the uup until they get a half decent leader they are not going anyware

Heh getting this bizarre vision of Naomi Cambell trying to introduce fashion laws in Northern Ireland.

Anyway you're probably right, I just don't think its completely impossible, unfortunately I could see SDLP losing a lot of seats to SF for reasons Denerick outlined. There's also gonna be UKIP running this time.

Anyway I think McGuinness's suggestion is a good one about changing the name to joint first ministers - I hate that people have to vote DUP to keep SF out and vice versa.

imme

I don't see how you see it as a smart move OP.

He has said that he'd be willing for the DUP to give up the title of First Minister if SF wins the same vote as the DUP.

KeithAFC

junder wrote: »

It would take a complete collapse in the dup vote, the tuv have really gone as far as they can, can't really see the alliance getting anymore votes either, highly unlikely naomi Campbell will keep her east Belfast seat next time around, as for the uup until they get a half decent leader they are not going anyware

She should never of won the east belfast seat anyway. It was a disgrace. Vote the DUP back into the seat.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

She should never of won the east belfast seat anyway. It was a disgrace. Vote the DUP back into the seat.

Why would you prefer a bible basher fundamentalist unionist party to a liberal secular unionist party having the seat?

Can'tseeme

Fair play to Basil McCrea and John McCallister standing there ground over that dinosaur McNarry. McNarry seems to be doing his utmost to wreck his partys chances at the upcoming election.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

She should never of won the east belfast seat anyway. It was a disgrace. Vote the DUP back into the seat.

There you are again badmouthing that whole democracy thing because it didn't give you the result you wanted...

Unionists, wha'?

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Why would you prefer a bible basher fundamentalist unionist party to a liberal secular unionist party having the seat?

The Alliance party aren't a Unionist party. They aren't interested in the protection of the Union. She can get lost. Vote Robinson back in East Belfast.

Wolfe Tone

Sure I thought you where an atheist Keith?

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Sure I thought you where an atheist Keith?

lol. Im an agnostic but i don't give a **** about DUPs religious beliefs. I only care about their political views (ie, the union).

karma_

KeithAFC wrote: »

lol. Im an agnostic but i don't give a **** about DUPs religious beliefs. I only care about their political views (ie, the union).

Weren't you on about God and religion a week or 2 ago I seem to recall. Unless this agnosticism is a more recent development...

KeithAFC

karma_ wrote: »

Weren't you on about God and religion a week or 2 ago I seem to recall. Unless this agnosticism is a more recent development...

Probably one of my sarccy posts.

karma_

KeithAFC wrote: »

Probably one of my sarccy posts.

God will sort this out. Im sure he will help these people back up and get them rebuilding.

God is wicked and nice. He helps people and also needs to protect the planet at the same time.

I hope more people can find the lord.

I remember these as I replied to them, so I guess you were just trolling the Japan tsunami thread?

Says it all really...

KeithAFC

lol.

Savage Tyrant

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't have a religion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70692673&postcount=345

KeithAFC

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70692673&postcount=345

What?

Savage Tyrant

KeithAFC wrote: »

What?

Just pointing out your contradictions of yourself.

KeithAFC

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Just pointing out your contradictions of yourself.

I said i don't have a religion. What is your point?

Savage Tyrant

Just pointing out the oddities of saying God will help the Japanese earthquake/Tsunami victims while also claiming to not be religous,
Should we take that as an admittance of being deliberately facetious on the Tsanami thread? Just wondering.

KeithAFC

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Just pointing out the oddities of saying God will help the Japanese earthquake/Tsunami victims while also claiming to not be religous,
Should we take that as an admittance of being deliberately facetious on the Tsanami thread? Just wondering.

Take which way you want.

Can'tseeme

KeithAFC wrote: »

I said i don't have a religion. What is your point?

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Alliance party aren't a Unionist party. They aren't interested in the protection of the Union. She can get lost. Vote Robinson back in East Belfast.

Just as voting Sinn Fein won't advance the cause of a united Ireland, a vote for DUP is no protection to the union. Wish people would realise these things.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

She should never of won the east belfast seat anyway. It was a disgrace. Vote the DUP back into the seat.

How dare the people of East Belfast express their democratic wishes! Those bastards.

Can'tseeme

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Just as voting Sinn Fein won't advance the cause of a united Ireland, a vote for DUP is no protection to the union. Wish people would realise these things.

Tell me BoS, if voting for SF won't advance the cause of a UI then who will?