AH charter needs minor update?

Dozen Wicked Words

Charter of AH says, if there is a more appropriate forum, put it there. A few examples of some threads, that, to me, should be in other forums.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056216005 would fit in Music.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056215268 would be suitable for a couple of the Politics forums.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056215559 I would imagine is History and Heritage or Politics.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056215433 Television.

If these are allowed, might be worth changing the AH charter, no big deal but thought I would mention it .

AckwelFoley

That rule is there to refer to when a mod decides that ta thread is best placed in a particular forum- while not exclusively.

Mods need to make decisions now and again if they feel that the OP probably by tone needs a more serious reply or perhaps there is another reason like it simply isnt suitable.

For example ... 99.9 times out of 100 a video posted in AH will get moved to cool vids..

99.9 times out of 100 football stories will get moved to soccer, with the exception of it being a world cup sommer where they will probably have a sticky in AH for football discussion

Politics is in everyones life, perhaps i dont want to talk political theory, but more a pub chat on the subject - then it tends to stay in AH.

AH is a forum for a multitude of topics, the rule is there so the mods can use it.
If it wasnt there i can guarentee you within 1 week there would be 5 threads in feedback complaining that their thread was moved even though there was no rule in the charter stating that they couldnt post their subject matter there

Dozen Wicked Words

Ah right, cheers for that.

OPENROAD

snyper wrote: »

That rule is there to refer to when a mod decides that ta thread is best placed in a particular forum- while not exclusively.

Mods need to make decisions now and again if they feel that the OP probably by tone needs a more serious reply or perhaps there is another reason like it simply isnt suitable.

For example ... 99.9 times out of 100 a video posted in AH will get moved to cool vids..

99.9 times out of 100 football stories will get moved to soccer, with the exception of it being a world cup sommer where they will probably have a sticky in AH for football discussion

Politics is in everyones life, perhaps i dont want to talk political theory, but more a pub chat on the subject - then it tends to stay in AH.

AH is a forum for a multitude of topics, the rule is there so the mods can use it.
If it wasnt there i can guarentee you within 1 week there would be 5 threads in feedback complaining that their thread was moved even though there was no rule in the charter stating that they couldnt post their subject matter there

So it is at the Mods discretion rather than a rule, if you allow certain political threads in AH, surely you should allow all political threads

Steve

OPENROAD wrote: »

So it is at the Mods discretion rather than a rule, if you allow certain political threads in AH, surely you should allow all political threads

The rules are fuzzy because the subject matter of threads posted by people in general in the likes of AH tend to be fuzzy.

It would be impossible to define a set of rules that covered every possible eventuality, if it were then internet forums wouldn't need human moderators and it could all be done by a fancy script.

starbelgrade

Steve wrote: »

The rules are fuzzy because the subject matter of threads posted by people in general in the likes of AH tend to be fuzzy.
.

Unless the thread is even vaguely related to football.

The World Cup thread being the one & only exception ever.

bonkey

Moderators have discretion...and not just on that rule.

biko

Funny, I was PMing with someone about mod discretion in After Hours not 20 mins ago.

Certain threads that could/should be somewhere else are left in AH because the mods think that in this instance it's current/important enough to warrant AH attention.
Some other times the mods decide that it's not enough to warrant AH attention and can move or lock the thread.
I'm not going to give examples but the AH mods are chosen because the other AH mods and then admins feel that s/he has a good feel for how AH works and will act in the best interest of the forum.

What should and should not be in After Hours is during constant debate, both by the mods internally and also in Feedback threads like this.
In my own opinion it works quite well, considering its size and span.

OPENROAD

bonkey wrote: »

Moderators have discretion...and not just on that rule.

Tks for clarification, had a feeling that was the case.

Just as feedback though, would like to see the same discretion on Football related topics as starbelgrade implied, when it comes to football related threads, it does appear to be very black and white.

starbelgrade

OPENROAD wrote: »

Tks for clarification, had a feeling that was the case.

Just as feedback though, would like to see the same discretion on Football related topics as starbelgrade implied, when it comes to football related threads, it does appear to be very black and white.

Personally I'd love to see a mega thread in AH for the footy. Can't see what harm it would do.

Overheal

starbelgrade wrote: »

Personally I'd love to see a mega thread in AH for the footy. Can't see what harm it would do.

You don't remember the Footie French Friday Massacre then. After Hours nearly imploded.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055744213

FlutterinBantam

Mods are excellent in AH, do a thankless task very well indeed imho.

Need to watch out for insidious promoting of certain political ideals under the guise of 'events' and then when the 'supporters' arrive en masse, anybody who dares to differ or object is accused of trolling.

AH is used to get the widest footprint and quite often the thread can turn into a propaganda exercise for a certain political party.

these threads are then 'bumped' at regular intervals to keep them current.

doesn't happen too often but the AH mods would need to be aware, and shunt them off to where they are most suited.

starbelgrade

Overheal wrote: »

You don't remember the Footie French Friday Massacre then. After Hours nearly imploded.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055744213

No... I was at the match. Looks like a good read though - must have a browse through it later!

Otis Driftwood

starbelgrade wrote: »

Personally I'd love to see a mega thread in AH for the footy. Can't see what harm it would do.

Ah here,can you imagine the work that would have to go into a football super thread a la AH,jesus you would need a team of mods for it alone.Completly unworkable.

starbelgrade

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Ah here,can you imagine the work that would have to go into a football super thread a la AH,jesus you would need a team of mods for it alone.Completly unworkable.

I'd do it single handedly.

I'd start with giving perma-bans to anyone who says anything against Man United, continue with anyone who disagrees with me & then take it from there.

I'd make a savage Mod.

OPENROAD

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Ah here,can you imagine the work that would have to go into a football super thread a la AH,jesus you would need a team of mods for it alone.Completly unworkable.

Some of the political debates in AH make the football threads in the soccer forum look so lightweight though.

It is not necessary a case of a football super thread, AH is obviously not the place for that, I still don't see why anything that is football related gets closed immediately though, when political threads rarely seem to get closed, even though it seems to be the same stuff over and over again.

I'm not saying they should be closed by the way, but wonder why both appear to be treated differently. By the way just to clarify, not having a go at the mods, they do a top job

dr.bollocko

I guess the move / don't move threads situation is a line drawn in the sand that can stand to move regularly. It's always interesting feedback to hear what people think can be tweaked etc.

Mint Sauce

This is the beauty of AH, people can have the kind of talk you have with your mates down the local over a pint, and can do the serious stuff as well when called apon.

Also with AH, serious dicussion is had, its usally in a laymans language, easy to understand, and not in a dialogue that could leave you lost on the more realvent forums.

TheZohanS

starbelgrade wrote: »

Personally I'd love to see a mega thread in AH for the footy. Can't see what harm it would do.

That and a general chat thread, both would make AH more fun.

FlutterinBantam

I wouldn't let football threads anywhere near AH.


Wouldn't even consider it.



Absolute disaster ,in my opinion.

Insect Overlord

Says the guy with a record number of bans from AH...

Overheal

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Says the guy with a record number of bans from AH...

Leave me out of this!

Wolfe Tone

I think a footy thread would be cool all right!

biko

It won't happen. There is a whole Soccer section for soccer discussion already.
The thread on WC was almost not happening so a general soccer thread is very very unlikely.

FlutterinBantam

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Says the guy with a record number of bans from AH...

Jeez ...cheap little jibe there, makes bitter reading.

Not a smart output.

Nodin

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think a footy thread would be cool all right!

...they get worse than NI or Middle East threads, by all accounts. Nobody needs the hastle.

OPENROAD

biko wrote: »

It won't happen. There is a whole Soccer section for soccer discussion already.
The thread on WC was almost not happening so a general soccer thread is very very unlikely.

You could say the same about Politics, yet we end up with serious Political discussions in AH.

dr.bollocko

The ole soccer forum has restricted access. Its there because when it didn't I think it was a complete troll fest. The changes made there were not made lightly. And having footie talk in AH, club footie talk particularly would be a bit of a nightmare.
The world cup mega thread we had worked well I thought.

FlutterinBantam

Listen to that man.

He has what others call common sense.

starbelgrade

irish-stew wrote: »

This is the beauty of AH, people can have the kind of talk you have with your mates down the local over a pint,

Except for the footy.

Nodin

irish-stew wrote: »

This is the beauty of AH, people can have the kind of talk you have with your mates down the local over a pint, and can do the serious stuff as well when called apon.

.......

...but have no glass or table legs to hand when it goes pear shaped.

Mint Sauce

dr.bollocko wrote: »

The ole soccer forum has restricted access. Its there because when it didn't I think it was a complete troll fest. The changes made there were not made lightly. And having footie talk in AH, club footie talk particularly would be a bit of a nightmare.
The world cup mega thread we had worked well I thought.

Thats beacuse the football was harldly mentioned, it was all about those bloody horns, the samba girls, and the odds of the north koreanan team deflecting when it was all over.



Even if you were not particalarly a fan of football, it had everyone talking.

OPENROAD wrote:

You could say the same about Politics, yet we end up with serious Political discussions in AH.

No offence to the political forum, but I would much rather read the topic on it in AHs. I'm not politcally minded, as pointed out earlier its more likely to be posted in a laymans language and without the politcal jargon, plus if you are not politcally minded you are more likely to contribute to it, and this is exactly what AHs allows when the serious stuff arises.

Of course with it being AHs, your going to get the AHs repsonces as well, the same as you would get beer fueled responces if you were having the conversation down the pub.

starbelgrade

irish-stew wrote: »

Thats beacuse the football was harldly mentioned, it was all about those bloody horns, the samba girls, and the odds of the north koreanan team deflecting when it was all over.



Even if you were not particalarly a fan of football, it had everyone talking.


No offence to the political forum, but I would much rather read the topic on it in AHs. I'm not politcally minded, as pointed out earlier its more likely to be posted in a laymans language and without the politcal jargon, plus if you are not politcally minded you are more likely to contribute to it, and this is exactly what AHs allows when the serious stuff arises.

Of course with it being AHs, your going to get the AHs repsonces as well, the same as you would get beer fueled responces if you were having the conversation down the pub.

I get what the Mods are saying about a footie thread being a possible nightmare, but the same could be said for any contentious thread.

What Irish Stew is saying about the politics forum could equally apply to the soccer forum. Most people don't post in Politics because they are afraid of being shot down by other posters as they don't have the same political awareness or understanding of politics as a lot of the "political heads" who are regulars there ... and the place is full of them. (Ironically though, a lot of them only sound like they know what they're talking about).

The same thing however, happens quite regularly in the soccer forum. During the Ireland vs Macedonia game, one poster asked "Who is this James McCarthy guy & why is there so much fuss about him?". There followed 2 full pages of comments like "Do you know anything about football?", "What planet are you from?" etc etc.

His question would be akin to asking in the politics forum who Michael Martin is, as you've never heard of him. So, I felt sorry for the dude & posted a short synopsis of the McCarthy saga.

At least in AH, questions like this would be met with some degree of humour & more than likely a civil answer or two (yes, civility in AH!). It's one of the few forums where it's OK to post on a subject that you don't have an in depth understanding or knowledge of & where you won't be shot down for not having it. For that reason, you could argue that there is a lack of "civility" in other forums due to the "snobbish" nature of many of their posters.

No-one looks down their nose at you in AH. Now while some might consider the forum as a "dumbing down" of serious topics, I'd consider it a "normalising" of them. Just because you can't be an expert on every subject, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to discuss them.

And for that reason, I'd love to see a footie mega thread in AH - or even extend it to a sports mega thread, like the "Sports Bar" thread in the Lock Inn. If the forum is supposed to be pub style banter, then it's missing one of the biggest elements of talk that any pub has... Sport. At least with a Sports thread, people could discuss the likes of the footie, rugby, Wimbeldon (when it's on) & the Superbowl etc. And if the World Cup mega thread was such a success, then why not let it run to see how it works out?

Mint Sauce

Good post Star.

But my only concern re a sports thread on AH, is the potential for an amount of trolling or a partisan element, ie, a Liverpool or Utd fan wont have a bad word said about their team, and the rival fan will do everthing to wind them up over it, especailly during major fixtures.

It could cause major headaches for Mods not generally interested in sports/football, and caused by posters who either dont follow it enough to sign up to the soccer forum, have not met the criteria to post there, who have enven been banned, or who are just generally a troll/wum.

I still think there is room for majoor events that have people talking, but beyond that it could get a bit much.

In relation to a general chit chat on AH, doesn't a lot of threads turn into this. It could also turn AH into a clique forum, the chit chat threads on other forums work I think becuase its either a shared interest or private. Theres to much going on in AH and to much of a diveristy of posters and personalities for it to work, and would probably just end up with a select few with an overflow into the rest of the forum.

starbelgrade

I hate it when people debate against me with logical, well put points.

OPENROAD

irish-stew wrote: »

Good post Star.

But my only concern re a sports thread on AH, is the potential for an amount of trolling or a partisan element, ie, a Liverpool or Utd fan wont have a bad word said about their team, and the rival fan will do everthing to wind them up over it, especailly during major fixtures.

It could cause major headaches for Mods not generally interested in sports/football, and caused by posters who either dont follow it enough to sign up to the soccer forum, have not met the criteria to post there, who have enven been banned, or who are just generally a troll/wum.

I still think there is room for majoor events that have people talking, but beyond that it could get a bit much.

In relation to a general chit chat on AH, doesn't a lot of threads turn into this. It could also turn AH into a clique forum, the chit chat threads on other forums work I think becuase its either a shared interest or private. Theres to much going on in AH and to much of a diveristy of posters and personalities for it to work, and would probably just end up with a select few with an overflow into the rest of the forum.

Valid point, but again its the same re Politics in AH but maybe on a smaller scale.

Sharpshooter

irish-stew wrote: »

Good post Star.

But my only concern re a sports thread on AH, is the potential for an amount of trolling or a partisan element, ie, a Liverpool or Utd fan wont have a bad word said about their team, and the rival fan will do everthing to wind them up over it, especailly during major fixtures.

Well said, the problem I would have with a thread like that is when someone is banned from Soccer they would make their way to AHs to continue their argument and quite possibly get other users banned if they were still inclined to post in the same manner that got them banned from Soccer in the first place.

irish-stew wrote: »

It could cause major headaches for Mods not generally interested in sports/football, and caused by posters who either dont follow it enough to sign up to the soccer forum, have not met the criteria to post there, who have enven been banned, or who are just generally a troll/wum.

I honestly think it would bring the trolls out in force, and AHs has enough of those already.

irish-stew wrote: »

In relation to a general chit chat on AH, doesn't a lot of threads turn into this. It could also turn AH into a clique forum, the chit chat threads on other forums work I think becuase its either a shared interest or private. Theres to much going on in AH and to much of a diveristy of posters and personalities for it to work, and would probably just end up with a select few with an overflow into the rest of the forum.

Agreed.

Didn't OutlawPete ask and get a chat forum *similar to AHs* to keep these kind of threads away from AHs.

That was his main reason for asking for such a forum, if I remember correctly.

The Lock Inn is a chat forum with lots of AHs users posting there.

I really don't see the point of having a thread in AHs that could exist in The Lock Inn.

Micky Dolenz

To be honest we were all getting sick to death of the constant political threads, but to be fair, we just had a general election which gripped the nation for months, it involved and effected all people in the country, every man, woman and child.

Football will never have the same effect unless Ireland actually qualify for something. Club football talk in AH would be a disaster.

Since the GE, the dust has started to settle and there are way fewer threads now. The mods of AH were aware of this and in the latter part of the GE were pro-active in locking and moving political threads.

OPENROAD

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

To be honest we were all getting sick to death of the constant political threads, but to be fair, we just had a general election which gripped the nation for months, it involved and effected all people in the country, every man, woman and child.

Football will never have the same effect unless Ireland actually qualify for something. Club football talk in AH would be a disaster.

Since the GE, the dust has started to settle and there are way fewer threads now. The mods of AH were aware of this and in the latter part of the GE were pro-active in locking and moving political threads.

It is not just "general election threads " though, still plenty of political threads popping many of which seem similar or end up going down the same route or are the same theme that might have been discussed only a couple of months previously.

Micky Dolenz

OPENROAD wrote: »

It is not just "general election threads " though, still plenty of political threads popping many of which seem similar or end up going down the same route.

No, I didn't specially mean GE threads, but the GE bred a national feel for politics. It was everywhere, including AH. The numbers have dropped off by at least 75% in recent weeks.

OPENROAD

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No, I didn't specially mean GE threads, but the GE bred a national feel for politics. It was everywhere, including AH. The numbers have dropped off by at least 75% in recent weeks.

No problems with the GE threads to be honest, as you said the GE campaign was long and did grip the nation for a long time.

It is the rehashing of certain political treads that seem to pop up in AH.

Dozen Wicked Words

OPENROAD wrote: »

No problems with the GE threads to be honest, as you said the GE campaign was long and did grip the nation for a long time.

It is the rehashing of certain political treads that seem to pop up in AH.

Yep, dead right, 3 today, within easy search page1 or 2 of AH that has the same old bulls*it and the same old stats by the same old posters that feature daily in Irish Economy.