Is this sufficient

Hurley6969

Hi, Just wondering if anyone can have a look below and let me know if it sounds ok.
Mon, Wed and Fri jog/walking for half an hour, Im not doing couch to 5k but it works out that i cover roughly 5k in the half hour. Been doing this for 2 months now and can go much further and faster than when i started. After jogging I do some form of ab exercise (5 sets of 20 reps). I have only started this last week.

Tue, Thu and Sat I do Biceps, Triceps, Shoulder and Chest all 5 sets for each with 6 reps. I have been doing this for the last 3 weeks.

Breakfast: Whey shake, fruit and cereal bar
Lunch: Chicken/Tuna brown bread sandwich with coleslaw and lettuce
Dinner: Chicken/Pork Chop/Mince with one veg and pasta/spuds

Just wondering how long before I notice upper body/abs improving? It is easy with the jogging because you can go further than when you started but harder to notice muscle as you see yourself everyday so don't notice growth.
Does this all sound sufficient enough, any suggestions if not? I'm not looking to bulk up just tone up. Male, 23, 5 foot 11 and roughly 12.5 stone.

Cheers

rocky

Hurley6969 wrote: »

I'm not looking to bulk up just tone up.

No legs/back in your workout?


Try some of these:

Morpheus77

Can you give me more datails about you before/after workout meals?
Are you eating only 3 times per day?
Gym workout:
tuesday: chest and biceps
thursday: shoulders and triceps
saturday: back and legs

For each large part: chest, back, shoulders legs do 4 different exercises 4 series by 12 reps
For small part: biceps and triceps do 4 different exercises 3 series by 12 reps
Use weight which you can lift 2 more reps than 12 times, do short brakes between series 60-90 seconds

Hurley6969

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Can you give me more datails about you before/after workout meals?
Are you eating only 3 times per day?
Gym workout:
tuesday: chest and biceps
thursday: shoulders and triceps
saturday: back and legs

For each large part: chest, back, shoulders legs do 4 different exercises 4 series by 12 reps
For small part: biceps and triceps do 4 different exercises 3 series by 12 reps
Use weight which you can lift 2 more reps than 12 times, do short brakes between series 60-90 seconds

Thanks for the meaningfull post.
Before/after work meals? I have lunch in work at about 1ish then head home and do the relevant exercise. After that have a protein shake, shower, then eat dinner.
Yeah I have alway ate 3 times per day but instead of a sandwich I would have a subway and dinner would be less healthy too. If I'm really hungry ill grab a banana or something between meals.
As for the gym workout, I'm not a member of any. All my work is done with dumbells/barbells. Didnt know that about the reps and sets for chest etc. Is it ok to do one muscle group for one day aweek. Like if i was to do chest and biceps on Tuesday then not again until the following Tuesday would this be ok?
And recommendations for a back exercise with what I have?
Thanks

Morpheus77

Take protein shake before gym workout and add 80g of carbs to your protein shake afterwards. Then eat dinner in the next 30-60 minutes afterworkout. It should stop catobolism and boost anabolism of the muscles.
For back you can do pul-ups in wide grip, Bent-over row, shrugs.
For lower back you can do deadlifts -but you nedd someone experienced how to do this its really easy to get injury with deadlifts.
You can find lots of exercises there:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor1914548

Hurley6969

Cheers for the link. I'll check out some of those back exercises.

Mellor

Morpheus77 wrote: »

For each large part: chest, back, shoulders legs do 4 different exercises 4 series by 12 reps
For small part: biceps and triceps do 4 different exercises 3 series by 12 reps
Use weight which you can lift 2 more reps than 12 times, do short brakes between series 60-90 seconds

You don't need to do 12 reps. 5 set of 5 reps at a lower weight is very popular
It's sets not series btw.

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Take protein shake before gym workout and add 80g of carbs to your protein shake afterwards. Then eat dinner in the next 30-60 minutes afterworkout. It should stop catobolism and boost anabolism of the muscles.

There is no chance in hell that he is going to turn catabolic if he doesn't eat within an hour. THe fact that you are suggesting that he will after drink a PWO shake with 80g carbs is bizarre. That would be about 450cals inc protein.

Morpheus77

Its really irritating when some of you don't answer for other questions but are negating other answers. Don't say NO ask WHY
My knowledge is not from collegues from gym or from 'health' shops. Its from reading, from my life, from my passion.
This time after workout is called Anabolic Window and YES after workout straightway he can take 0.8 to 1.2 g of carbs per 1kg of body mass (dextrose or maltodextrin) and 0.4-0.5 g of protein per 1kg of body mass and believe it wouldnt be use to produce fat.
Around hour after workuot he can eat normal meal.
Maybe 5 sets by 5 reps is popular but 4 sets by 12 its working:)
I did 4 sets by 6 with maximum weight to get size but never to make definition.
Best way for you Hurley will be do 6-8 weeks course in my way and write revision.
To the rest again don't write NO write or ask WHY:)

G86

Morpheus77 wrote: »

To the rest again don't write NO write or ask WHY:)

Ok so, my question is...

Why, after looking for advice on this, are you giving advice on this?

Wreck

G86 wrote: »

Ok so, my question is...

Why, after looking for advice on this, are you giving advice on this?

I'm going to go with them being two different people. :P

G86

Wreck wrote: »

I'm going to go with them being two different people. :P

You might want to read the whole thread on that second link.

Wreck

G86 wrote: »

You might want to read the whole thread on that second link.

I might be missing something but are you not confusing Morpheus77 with Morphéus?

G86

Wreck wrote: »

I might be missing something but are you not confusing Morpheus77 with Morphéus?

Burn.....!!!!:o

That's what I get for posting when I'm narky. I've a feeling I'm going to come to some Matrix related fate now...

Apologies, I'll let ye get back on topic:pac:

d'Oracle

That horse gif is awesome.

Easily as awesome as swiss balls.

Hurley6969

So what would be the best you guys would recommend. From doing research its seems to me to be 4-5 sets between 4-8 reps on your max weight? So I'm currently doing 5 sets with 6 reps. Is the 5 sets 12 reps on a lower weight better?

cc87

Its all well and good saying you are doing biceps, triceps, chest etc. but unless you say what exercises you are doing with them its tough to make any comment about how effective they are

Morpheus77

You are doing 5 sets with 6 reps and you are not happy with that so try for next weeks smth different and you will see how it works for you.
In 'my' workout you will do 4 exercises by 4 series and 12 reps on large parts adn 4 exercises by 3 series and 12 reps on small parts. So you will do 192 reps per large muscle parts and 144reps for small parts at one training)
Remember to do first general exercise for body part for example flat bench press for chest or swing biceps curl for biceps and after that do the isolated exercises (incline bench press, flies, hammer curl).

If you like I can write for you full workout program.

Hurley6969

cc87 wrote: »

Its all well and good saying you are doing biceps, triceps, chest etc. but unless you say what exercises you are doing with them its tough to make any comment about how effective they are

I am getting these names from an app on my phone (Android - Jefit).
Shoulder: Dumbbell Arnold Press, Dumbbell Front Raise, Dumbbell Lateral Raise
Biceps: Barbell Curl, Dumbbell Concentration Curls, Dumbbell Bicep Curl
Triceps: Dumbbell Standing Triceps Extension
Abs: Sit Ups, Air Bike
Chest: Dumbbell Decline Fly (on floor, no bench)
Back: Just started Dumbbell Deadlifts

Any others you would recommend, or ones above you wouldn't?

Morpheus77 wrote: »

You are doing 5 sets with 6 reps and you are not happy with that so try for next weeks smth different and you will see how it works for you.
In 'my' workout you will do 4 exercises by 4 series and 12 reps on large parts adn 4 exercises by 3 series and 12 reps on small parts. So you will do 192 reps per large muscle parts and 144reps for small parts at one training)
Remember to do first general exercise for body part for example flat bench press for chest or swing biceps curl for biceps and after that do the isolated exercises (incline bench press, flies, hammer curl).

If you like I can write for you full workout program.

Its not that the 5 sets x 6 reps isn't working, i have only been at it almost 3 weeks now. I just want to know which exercises are the best. You can see above what I'm doing now. I have dumbbells and a barbell, but no bench so any exercises will need to be based around that.

Mellor

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Its really irritating when some of you don't answer for other questions but are negating other answers. Don't say NO ask WHY
My knowledge is not from collegues from gym or from 'health' shops. Its from reading, from my life, from my passion.

It's really irritating when people take one bit of info and misunderstand it, then repost it as fact.

It's also irritating when people are under the impression that there is a magic one size fits all for diet and training. There isn't. Different goals need different approaches.

This time after workout is called Anabolic Window and YES after workout straightway he can take 0.8 to 1.2 g of carbs per 1kg of body mass (dextrose or maltodextrin) and 0.4-0.5 g of protein per 1kg of body mass and believe it wouldnt be use to produce fat.
Around hour after workuot he can eat normal meal.

I never said he can't have that much. Or that if would become fat.
I never said that he can't eat a meal a while later. Of course he can if he wants.
But you said he needs to. He doesn't .

I said he doesn't need to eat a full dinner with 60 minutes of drinking a 460 calorie shake to stop his body turning catabolic. He is not going to turn catabolic that quick. I don't care where you read that, you are wrong.

Also, taking a 460 cal shake plus a meal shortly later is typical for somebody trying to bulk up. They need excess calories. The OP isn't looking to bulk, he wants to tone, by this he means lose fat. So he needs less calories.

so, your diet suggestion doesn't sut the OP at all.

Maybe 5 sets by 5 reps is popular but 4 sets by 12 its working:)
I did 4 sets by 6 with maximum weight to get size but never to make definition.
Best way for you Hurley will be do 6-8 weeks course in my way and write revision.
To the rest again don't write NO write or ask WHY:)

5 reps is generally a strenght program.
12 reps is for generally for size.
If you didn't have definition its because there was a layer of fat. Regardless of program.

For fat los, there may not be much difference, i'd prefer the 5 rep personally.


@Hurley, its only been 3 weeks. you need to give it longer. IMO, if you want to lose fat so your muscles show more (this is what toning is) you need to eat less than you burn off. Fix your dit befroe you look at sometihng as small as number of reps

Morpheus77 wrote: »

You are doing 5 sets with 6 reps and you are not happy with that so try for next weeks smth different and you will see how it works for you.
In 'my' workout you will do 4 exercises by 4 series and 12 reps on large parts adn 4 exercises by 3 series and 12 reps on small parts. So you will do 192 reps per large muscle parts and 144reps for small parts at one training)

Remember to do first general exercise for body part for example flat bench press for chest or swing biceps curl for biceps and after that do the isolated exercises (incline bench press, flies, hammer curl).

If you like I can write for you full workout program.

Incline bench press is an isolation excercise but bicep curls isn't?????
Actually its the other way around.
Also, swinging bicep curls??? If this is where you swing them up, its a bad idea.

I am getting these names from an app on my phone (Android - Jefit).
Shoulder: Dumbbell Arnold Press, Dumbbell Front Raise, Dumbbell Lateral Raise
Biceps: Barbell Curl, Dumbbell Concentration Curls, Dumbbell Bicep Curl
Triceps: Dumbbell Standing Triceps Extension
Abs: Sit Ups, Air Bike
Chest: Dumbbell Decline Fly (on floor, no bench)
Back: Just started Dumbbell Deadlifts

Any others you would recommend, or ones above you wouldn't?

some phone programs are ok, others are ba.
yours looks to be bad.

A lot of isolation work, you don't need all that. you are better off doing big compound lifts. (some examples in the first reply)
There is no need to do 3 different forms of bicep curls.

Hurley6969

So for these compound lifts, should they still be 5 sets with 6 reps?

Parsley

Hurley6969 wrote: »

So for these compound lifts, should they still be 5 sets with 6 reps?

there's no reason why not. but if you read the post above, he clearly stated that worrying about rep range is a bit pointless. you should be worrying about diet and calories if you're trying to tone.

Hurley6969

Cheers. I should mention that I'm 12 stone 6. Not fat at all I've no fat to loose really. Already have a fairly health diet. I can throw up a pic if that's any help?

Morpheus77

Mellor
Thats right I'm not good (God) like you, you know everything and you are not wrong
But I'm endomorphic and if about loosing(keeping) weight I know lots.
Can you imagine that I can get 6kg in 10 days without supplements only if I stop counting calories? I'm 180cm, 33 yo, 95kg I eat 2800 calories per workout day, 2500 on non workout just to keep 95kg.
I know that there is no best sytem for everyone but you know how we do it- we do workout program for 6-8 weeks , diet program for 2 weeks after 2 weeks we do meeting and we check how is going on -if smth is going wrong we change diet for next 2 weeks and belive me we have lots of happy customers with good results. I like I said forum is only for short information not to write full articles.

460 calories for after workout meal is not too much it will be one of the biggest meal during the day -so if the rest meals will be on 400 kalories level he will get only (if he will be able to eat 5 meals) 2460 calories is that much? Especially that rest of this should be from low GI carbs, from proteins and from good fat (mostly mct and olive)

rocky

Hurley6969 wrote:

So for these compound lifts, should they still be 5 sets with 6 reps?

Doesn't matter, as long as you keep intensity up. Try a few rep ranges and see which you prefer. Personally I go with pyramid-type sets, keep increasing weight until I get 1 set of 3-5 reps that I couldn't have done with a higher weight. I tried reverse pyramiding or constant weight for 3-4 sets. What I do now is what I like best.

Hurley6969 wrote: »

Cheers. I should mention that I'm 12 stone 6. Not fat at all I've no fat to loose really. Already have a fairly health diet. I can throw up a pic if that's any help?

To 'tone' means just that - lose fat while increasing muscle (if you want to maintain the same weight). Because it's quite difficult for non-beginners to do that, you normally want to lose the fat and gain the muscle in separate stages.

Hurley6969

I may have used the wrong word. I do not wish to loose weight just get some muscle defination.

rocky

I give up, we need Hanley in here :pac:

Hurley6969

So what word am I lookin for?

Hanley

rocky wrote: »

I give up, we need Hanley in here :pac:

I'm here, I'm here - in future, you need to say my name 3 times.

What did I miss?

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

I'm here, I'm here - in future, you need to say my name 3 times.

Is that coz you're smalls now?

Mellor

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Mellor
Thats right I'm not good (God) like you, you know everything and you are not wrong

I understand you english isn't great, but lose the attitude please. I never said I was god, or anything of the sort. I wasn't the only one that critised your diet suggestion, its too much food for a guy trying to cut imo.

460 calories for after workout meal is not too much it will be one of the biggest meal during the day -so if the rest meals will be on 400 kalories level he will get only (if he will be able to eat 5 meals) 2460 calories is that much? Especially that rest of this should be from low GI carbs, from proteins and from good fat (mostly mct and olive)

Yes it is in my opinion.
You are 95kg and eat 2800 to maintain weight. That's fine, prob about right.
The Op is 79kg, so he needs a lot less calories anyway. Plus he needs to cut some extra out to strip fat. He needs more than 340cals less than you.

That said, maybe the op doesn't actually want to "tone". See below.

Hurley6969 wrote: »

I may have used the wrong word. I do not wish to loose weight just get some muscle defination.

The word you used isn't an issue. "Toning" doesn't exist really, but we knew what you meant. Getting muscle "defination" is the same thing.

But what you are not understanding is that there is no such thing as either. There's no excercises to make muscles the same size but defined.

If your muscles are undefined, it is becasue there is a layer of fat covering them. It's as simple as that. You may not look fat, you prob don't have a belly, but you are still probably about 15% body fat. Some people refer to this as skinny fat. Slim build guys with lowish muscle mass.

• If you cut cals with a clean diet and get in soem good excercise you have better definition with lower body weight.
  
• If you eat some excess calories (as many clean sourcesas possible) you you'll have more muscle mass, but the same definition at a higher body weight.
  
• If you combine the two, bulk a bit then cut a bit. You'll have more muscle and more definition at your current weight.

Brian?

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Mellor
Thats right I'm not good (God) like you, you know everything and you are not

Morpheus infracted, please keep it civil.

Morpheus77

OK I'm sorry, so no pressure any more

I think that he wants to get 'LEAN MASS' as somebody said its one of hardest goals to get.
If about calories I'll give calories calculator system to my translator when I got it back I show you how it should be counted.