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Screen Students for Grants ... wasters don't get a penny!

  • 21-03-2011 6:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭


    I'll start by saying I'm a student and fully support the fees initiative as it opens education to those who otherwise would have a hard time getting the same level of it - including myself.

    Which is why it pisses me off to see around half my course not coming in, planning on failing and repeating, not trying and only going to college because their parents are making them. Fees including maintainance grant can cost up to €8,000 per year per student!

    Would you agree that applicants who get grants should be screened to show they're a worthwhile investment for the government - or at the very least made to achieve minimum grade levels, have minimum attendance etc...

    We could save millions by cutting loose those who do feck all - not to mention free up spaces in courses for those who actually want to try... :mad:


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    People who repeat don't get grants, why would anyone repeat on purpose?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    nevermind repeating, I dont think anyone who averages less then b's should get grants

    /flame retardant on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tricks


    phasers wrote: »
    People who repeat don't get grants, why would anyone repeat on purpose?

    I think he meant just repeating the exams during the summer as opposed to repeating the year.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    when I studied professional cookery we would be docked money from our training grants for any time missed. If you missed a lecture, you lost a days pay. If you missed 2 days you got nothing that week.
    Should bring the same for all students.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tricks


    Seaneh wrote: »
    when I studied professional cookery we would be docked money from our training grants for any time missed. If you missed a lecture, you lost a days pay. If you missed 2 days you got nothing that week.
    Should bring the same for all students.

    Except all students don't get grants?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    isnt that favourtism and discrimunation Im appaled:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Saila wrote: »
    isnt that favourtism and discrimunation Im appaled:mad:

    I'd see it as investing in people who are likely to work and give the nation a return + profit on their investment via taxes: both present and future.

    What's the point in spending €8,000 of the country's money to send someone to college who isn't going to try...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    nevermind repeating, I dont think anyone who averages less then b's should get grants

    /flame retardant on

    Universities, afaik, don't use that form of grading. A "B" is what, anything from 70% to 84%. Anything above 70% is the highest grade you can get in most Irish universities. And what about subjects that start off broad and focus as you advance. I was crap at maths and statistics in my first two years, but after that I got to specialise in what I wanted to do and was good at. I was still good enough to pass those subjects, just not excel at them. And it didn't effect my final degree one bit. Why should someone in the same position be screwed because of that?
    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Would you agree that applicants who get grants should be screened to show they're a worthwhile investment for the government - or at the very least made to achieve minimum grade levels, have minimum attendance etc...

    They are screened, by the university.

    And they do have to achieve minimum grade levels.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tricks


    Buceph wrote: »

    They are screened, by the university.

    And they do have to achieve minimum grade levels.

    No they don't. They just have to pass. Plenty of my classmates are scraping by on low GPA's and still getting their grants and assistance funds


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Jagle


    lets be honest most people who needs grants dont get them, those who actually are eligble are for the most part wasters anyway, terrible system, very few people ive known on grants are what you would consider model students, but shure thats the system


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Buceph wrote: »
    Universities, afaik, don't use that form of grading.



    They are screened, by the university.

    And they do have to achieve minimum grade levels.

    I was never screened by the university I attend. Also, anyone can get 200 points in their Leaving and get into a course... I'm not saying people who get 200 points don't try and aren't worthwhile - I'm just saying getting into college doesn't require Einstein levels of intelligence.

    As far as minimum grades go - many use the 'bring up' system to turn failed subjects into passes, barely pass or spend a year dossing with a view of 'sure feck it I'll just pay the few hundred to sit repeats' (again brings into question whether or not they need a grant if they're so lax about paying hundreds to sit repeats...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    tricks wrote: »
    No they don't. They just have to pass. Plenty of my classmates are scraping by on low GPA's and still getting their grants and assistance funds

    Yes. That is the minimum grade they have to achieve to get the grant in the following year. If they don't get that grade they don't pass. That's what minimum grade are.

    And out of curiousity, what university uses the GPA system?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    Seaneh wrote: »
    when I studied professional cookery we would be docked money from our training grants for any time missed. If you missed a lecture, you lost a days pay. If you missed 2 days you got nothing that week.
    Should bring the same for all students.
    What if you have flu or something? Do you have to get a doctor's note or do you just not get any money?


    Oh also, technically grants requite you to have 75% attendance (should be higher) , but most colleges don't take attendance so it's impossible to police.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Jagle wrote: »
    lets be honest most people who needs grants dont get them, those who actually are eligble are for the most part wasters anyway, terrible system, very few people ive known on grants are what you would consider model students, but shure thats the system

    I'd disagree with that. I think Ireland has probably the fairest and most open fees system in Europe and much of the Western world.

    The majority of people who get grants aren't wasters. Just enough are to constitute screening to save money, IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    I was never screened by the university I attend. Also, anyone can get 200 points in their Leaving and get into a course... I'm not saying people who get 200 points don't try and aren't worthwhile - I'm just saying getting into college doesn't require Einstein levels of intelligence.

    That is a screening system. It's deemed if you matriculate and get the points you're good enough to do the course. What other entry requirement would you have? Especially as I know someone who got average leaving cert results and finished first in his class of hundreds every year. The leaving cert can only do so much when the university experience is so different.
    As far as minimum grades go - many use the 'bring up' system to turn failed subjects into passes, barely pass or spend a year dossing with a view of 'sure feck it I'll just pay the few hundred to sit repeats' (again brings into question whether or not they need a grant if they're so lax about paying hundreds to sit repeats...

    Yes. The universities thought that although someone may be bad in one area, they are good enough to compensate in another. And there's nothing wrong with that. And moreso, you can't get 0 in an exam an bring that up. There are limits on how badly you can do and compensate from other subjects.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    Buceph wrote: »
    And out of curiousity, what university uses the GPA system?

    UCD


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    phasers wrote: »
    What if you have flu or something? Do you have to get a doctor's note or do you just not get any money?


    Oh also, technically grants requite you to have 75% attendance (should be higher) , but most colleges don't take attendance so it's impossible to police.

    My college anyway has procedure for dealing with things like misses assignments, exams and absences for things like family deaths, illness, emergencies etc... If you're genuinely absent, and not just having a lie-on, then you should be fine.

    Can't vouch for that posters course though - it seems more like an apprenticship or something...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    Saila wrote: »
    UCD

    Do you still end up with first class honours, or 2:1's and 2:2's?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    i think we should by default kill all students.

    Then on a case by case basis decide if they should be spared, then following that process decide if the successful ones should get a grant, of course on case by case

    You will find when you weed out the wasters that there will be an average of 3 students nationally each year getting free fees


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Jagle


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    I'd disagree with that. I think Ireland has probably the fairest and most open fees system in Europe and much of the Western world.

    The majority of people who get grants aren't wasters. Just enough are to constitute screening to save money, IMO.

    you tried going to a university in the last few years, the government says your parents earn too much sorry pay for it yourself, im not my parents
    ya very fair. and most if not all colleges use a GPA system, QCA its called


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Buceph wrote: »
    That is a screening system. It's deemed if you matriculate and get the points you're good enough to do the course. What other entry requirement would you have? Especially as I know someone who got average leaving cert results and finished first in his class of hundreds every year. The leaving cert can only do so much when the university experience is so different.



    Yes. The universities thought that although someone may be bad in one area, they are good enough to compensate in another. And there's nothing wrong with that. And moreso, you can't get 0 in an exam an bring that up. There are limits on how badly you can do and compensate from other subjects.

    I'm more concerned with the attitudes of students. We average 50% attendance in lectures which is crap.

    I agree - the leaving cert is not, and should not be considered a measure of ones intelligence. Anyone can learn off an Irish essay by heart if they're bothered...

    My point is that I would have a screen process and a computerized continuous evaluation system. A quick interview with the candidate and explain how they'll be monitored etc... If they're not attending, grades are ****e and lecturer's can't vouch for them then they shouldn't be entitled to €8,000 or so of tax payer money.

    The country is on the verge of flopping - the last thing we need is dead weight soaking up more public money right now...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Jagle


    Buceph wrote: »
    And out of curiousity, what university uses the GPA system?

    most if not all, also known as QCA


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Jagle wrote: »
    you tried going to a university in the last few years, the government says your parents earn too much sorry pay for it yourself, im not my parents
    ya very fair. and most if not all colleges use a GPA system, QCA its called

    I'l agree with the whole parents thing. That pisses me off. When you're 18 you should be considered 100% separate from your parents...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    I'm more concerned with the attitudes of students. We average 50% attendance in lectures which is crap.

    I agree - the leaving cert is not, and should not be considered a measure of ones intelligence. Anyone can learn off an Irish essay by heart if they're bothered...

    My point is that I would have a screen process and a computerized continuous evaluation system. A quick interview with the candidate and explain how they'll be monitored etc... If they're not attending, grades are ****e and lecturer's can't vouch for them then they shouldn't be entitled to €8,000 or so of tax payer money.

    The country is on the verge of flopping - the last thing we need is dead weight soaking up more public money right now...

    That's not what universities are about. People learn in their own way, and universities are very particular about that. The more technical courses do have minimum attendance requirements, but when you go to the humanities lectures barely matter, especially when you have 9 hours of lectures a week. It's all about time hitting the books, or reading journals. I know plenty of people who came out with excellent degrees with extremely poor attendance. And university's know that as well.
    Jagle wrote: »
    most if not all, also known as QCA

    Definitely not all. It wasn't used for my exams/results.

    Edit: A quick google shows Mary I and UL use it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Buceph wrote: »
    Universities, afaik, don't use that form of grading. A "B" is what, anything from 70% to 84%. Anything above 70% is the highest grade you can get in most Irish universities.

    of course they do, in my university for example

    A1 First Honours - 4.00 75+%
    A2 First Honours - 3.60 70-74%
    B1 Honours 2.1 - 3.20 65-69%
    B2 Honours 2.1 - 3.00 60-64%
    B3 Honours 2.2 - 2.80 55-59%
    C1 Honours 2.2 - 2.60 50-54%
    C2 Third Honours - 2.40 45-49%
    C3 Third Honours - 2.00 40-44%
    D1 Compensating Fail - 1.60 35-39%
    D2 Compensating Fail - 1.20 30-34%
    F Fail 0.00 Less than 30% No credit awarded
    NG No Grade 0.00 No credit awarded

    you can get d's in two modules a semester and still not have to repeat as long as your overall average is above two. potentially this means you could fail 16 modules over the course of your degree and still be awarded a degree.

    i dont believe that is acceptable if the goverment is paying for your degree. I think you should at least have to be on course to receive a 2.2


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    i dont believe that is acceptable if the goverment is paying for your degree. I think you should at least have to be on course to receive a 2.2

    I think if the universities and/or the NUI deem you good enough to accredit you, the government should fund you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tricks


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    I'l agree with the whole parents thing. That pisses me off. When you're 18 you should be considered 100% separate from your parents...

    Yeah I get nothing from the government because my parents earn above the accepted limit for grant qualification. Now I'm very grateful I live at home and they do pay my fee's but I spend most of the week in college, the library or studying so can't get a job. Basically I am poorer than my grant receiving classmates who also are too lazy to attend college and spend most of their time working because they have absolutely no interest in their degree or pursuing a career in the same field.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dillo2k10


    I agree with the screening process. I hope to get a grant going to uni next year. I even think that the grants should be based on your leaving cert attendance for incoming first year students. I'm sure there would be much less wasters going to Uni and then I think there would be a much lower drop out rate and so the correct people are going to get a place in Uni


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Buceph wrote: »
    I think if the universities and/or the NUI deem you good enough to accredit you, the government should fund you.

    The more students a university has and the longer each student stays in the university the more money the university will receive. They have an incentive to NOT fail you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    The more students a university has and the longer each student stays in the university the more money the university will receive. They have an incentive to NOT fail you.

    The more idiots who pass the lower their international prestige so less research money. They have incentive to maintain their standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Buceph wrote: »
    The more idiots who pass the lower their international prestige so less research money. They have incentive to maintain their standards.

    Universities are not judged on their undergraduate population though, when it comes to rankings/prestige its about who is on the staff, how often they are referenced, how many nobel prizes they have etc etc undergrad performance does not come into it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Dean0088 wrote: »

    I agree - the leaving cert is not, and should not be considered a measure of ones intelligence. Anyone can learn off an Irish essay by heart if they're bothered...

    then why doesnt everyone get 600points in the leaving?

    did you ever hear of this guys book / theory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

    hard work in the leaving is a good indication that someone will work hard in college.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    Universities are not judged on their undergraduate population though, when it comes to rankings/prestige its about who is on the staff, how often they are referenced, how many nobel prizes they have etc etc undergrad performance does not come into it.

    And what about the jobs graduates end up in, the NUI and externs checking papers, the recruitment of future students, the attraction of foreign students. Universities definitely have an incentive to maintain standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Buceph wrote: »
    And what about the jobs graduates end up in, the NUI and externs checking papers, the recruitment of future students, the attraction of foreign students. Universities definitely have an incentive to maintain standards.

    I have this argument here numerous times before, if you think that irish universities have good/high standards at undergraduate level thats great. I dont.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    I have this argument here numerous times before, if you think that irish universities have good/high standards at undergraduate level thats great. I dont.

    It doesn't matter whether the standards are good enough or high enough as is. If the government wants to address that they should do it through the proper channels. Creating a secondary system from the university's own when it comes to grants is the wrong way to do things. If the university deems the level of work acceptable, that should be the end of the matter when it comes to grants.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Copper23


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    I'll start by saying I'm a student and fully support the fees initiative as it opens education to those who otherwise would have a hard time getting the same level of it - including myself.

    Which is why it pisses me off to see around half my course not coming in, planning on failing and repeating, not trying and only going to college because their parents are making them. Fees including maintainance grant can cost up to €8,000 per year per student!

    Would you agree that applicants who get grants should be screened to show they're a worthwhile investment for the government - or at the very least made to achieve minimum grade levels, have minimum attendance etc...

    We could save millions by cutting loose those who do feck all - not to mention free up spaces in courses for those who actually want to try... :mad:

    They ARE screened, but some just seem to know all the knacks, tricks and the right people and seem to get everything going.
    Used know someone who never bothered to go in at all, like, almost never, just pissed about on the college computers and spent their grant money buying mobile phones and stuff.
    I would make the college aware of it. I didn't know this to begin with but if someone is using college resources and hanging around campus and so on but does not actually attend any courses it's not looked well upon (registered or not) and the college will take action... feck them, why should we all pay for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    then why doesnt everyone get 600points in the leaving?

    did you ever hear of this guys book / theory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

    hard work in the leaving is a good indication that someone will work hard in college.

    They'll work hard. No doubt. But are they intelligent? Will they be usefull or simply fill a slot somewhere? There are people who get 600 points but struggle at articulating things unless there is a method of learning off.

    To answer your question, not everyone gets 600 points for numerous reasons:
    • Are not bothered
    • Don't see getting 600 points as being important
    • Would rather have fun than worring about obtaining a silly number
    • Don't want to become a surgeon and as such cannot justify such an investment of time and effort


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    phasers wrote: »
    What if you have flu or something? Do you have to get a doctor's note or do you just not get any money?


    Oh also, technically grants requite you to have 75% attendance (should be higher) , but most colleges don't take attendance so it's impossible to police.

    If you got a doctors note, you were fine.

    If you missed 10(maybe15) days in a semister without a reason you were turfed out of the course.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    I know 4 people from the same family who all got full grants when they went to college. Only one of them didn't drop out.

    Needless to say the other three didn't hand back their grant money they'd aready gotten and kept claiming the installments due long after they dropped out. Horribly broken system like everything else in this country that involves giving people free money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    Seaneh wrote: »
    when I studied professional cookery we would be docked money from our training grants for any time missed. If you missed a lecture, you lost a days pay. If you missed 2 days you got nothing that week.
    Should bring the same for all students.
    tricks wrote: »
    Except all students don't get grants?

    When I was a student in London, I didn't get a grant - but we had to attend lectures and departmental placements, otherwise it was recorded and information available for future employers or post-grad course leaders!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭bradyle


    That idea is horribly unfair. I get the grant but still need to work every weekend so i have enough money to go to college. I've failed 2 of the 3 years i've done so far only gettin through on repeats so by your standards i guess id be one of those wasters.

    I have worked my ass of to stay in my course its hard and theres areas of it im not good at so while i do well in most subjects there is a few that i did badly in. and because i need to work the weekends i have less time to devote than those who dont. I spend my summers studying to try and catch up and ensure i pass my repeats.

    But what because i dont get grades that someone out there finds satisfactory you think i shouldnt get to go to college, and sure i could have chosen an easier course (im in engineering) but why should i have had to if i come the end of it i will be able to get my degree and a good one at that hopefully.

    Your idea is unfair and doesnt take into account whats going on in the persons life and you should think before making such broad generalisations of people


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    bradyle wrote: »
    That idea is horribly unfair. I get the grant but still need to work every weekend so i have enough money to go to college. I've failed 2 of the 3 years i've done so far only gettin through on repeats so by your standards i guess id be one of those wasters.

    I have worked my ass of to stay in my course its hard and theres areas of it im not good at so while i do well in most subjects there is a few that i did badly in. and because i need to work the weekends i have less time to devote than those who dont. I spend my summers studying to try and catch up and ensure i pass my repeats.

    But what because i dont get grades that someone out there finds satisfactory you think i shouldnt get to go to college, and sure i could have chosen an easier course (im in engineering) but why should i have had to if i come the end of it i will be able to get my degree and a good one at that hopefully.

    Your idea is unfair and doesnt take into account whats going on in the persons life and you should think before making such broad generalisations of people

    Wow. You are going to get some shock once you go out in the real world.

    Not everyone gets to succeed. The world isn't fair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    bradyle wrote: »
    That idea is horribly unfair. I get the grant but still need to work every weekend so i have enough money to go to college. I've failed 2 of the 3 years i've done so far only gettin through on repeats so by your standards i guess id be one of those wasters.

    I have worked my ass of to stay in my course its hard and theres areas of it im not good at so while i do well in most subjects there is a few that i did badly in. and because i need to work the weekends i have less time to devote than those who dont. I spend my summers studying to try and catch up and ensure i pass my repeats.

    But what because i dont get grades that someone out there finds satisfactory you think i shouldnt get to go to college, and sure i could have chosen an easier course (im in engineering) but why should i have had to if i come the end of it i will be able to get my degree and a good one at that hopefully.

    Your idea is unfair and doesnt take into account whats going on in the persons life and you should think before making such broad generalisations of people

    if i remember correctly the full grant is 6/7k over the course of the year?(maybe 5K) that is more then enough to cover rent and living expenses and if it is not you always have the option of a student loan

    also every system will have people on the fringes who are effected but shouldnt be thats just tough, the trick is finding the system that effects the least amount of people like that while still being fair and affordable for the majority


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    if i remember correctly the full grant is 6/7k over the course of the year?(maybe 5K) that is more then enough to cover rent and living expenses and if it is not you always have the option of a student loan

    also every system will have people on the fringes who are effected but shouldnt be thats just tough, the trick is finding the system that effects the least amount of people like that while still being fair and affordable for the majority

    you get 3K(2K goes to fees) and have you tried to get a student loan in the last 3 years its nearly impossible


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Seaneh wrote: »
    when I studied professional cookery we would be docked money from our training grants for any time missed. If you missed a lecture, you lost a days pay. If you missed 2 days you got nothing that week.
    Should bring the same for all students.
    Bet yous got a lot more than students though and students will lose their grant if their attendance is poor. I remember my cousin doing an electrician course and he was on a few hundred a week. We need electricians but they arent exactly a major source of revenue for the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    if i remember correctly the full grant is 6/7k over the course of the year?(maybe 5K) that is more then enough to cover rent and living expenses and if it is not you always have the option of a student loan

    also every system will have people on the fringes who are effected but shouldnt be thats just tough, the trick is finding the system that effects the least amount of people like that while still being fair and affordable for the majority
    I got the grant and it was nowhere near that. Not a hope of getting a student loan. The vast majority work and go to college.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    if i remember correctly the full grant is 6/7k over the course of the year?(maybe 5K) that is more then enough to cover rent and living expenses and if it is not you always have the option of a student loan

    also every system will have people on the fringes who are effected but shouldnt be thats just tough, the trick is finding the system that effects the least amount of people like that while still being fair and affordable for the majority

    3 grand at most, doesn't even cover rent really, just about. You still have to work to buy food and pay bills, and gamble for more money like I did!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭bradyle


    Wow. You are going to get some shock once you go out in the real world.

    Not everyone gets to succeed. The world isn't fair.


    I know the world isn't fair i work every weekend and am over four grand in debt so i can go to college while there are others that waste their go knowin that mammy or daddy will pick up the bill if they drop out and try again.

    I just mean that everyone should be given the chance to go to college and go into the world of work and try and succeed and with the idea of screening people without taking into account their own standing isnt fair and while yea you're right the real world isnt fair the right to an education for everyone should be.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I don't see why they don't have a system where college is 'free' to enter, with the fees just being hidden. The government charge you, but afterwards, whether you complete college or not. Simply take a percentage/amount out of any money earned afterwards. You could even have to pay back more than you took, for fees, accommodation, food etc afterwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    3 grand at most, doesn't even cover rent really, just about. You still have to work to buy food and pay bills, and gamble for more money like I did!

    Full maintenance grant is 4,550 if you live more then 24km from your college. that is after the 2010 budget so i imagine it was more before then.

    also my room mate last year when asked how much his grant was explained it was around 5,500 plus registrations fees obviously
    Not a hope of getting a student loan

    why not? have you applied? I have been able to get student loans every year I have been in college, it was a little harder this year in that they would not give me the full amount i asked for but they did every other year. two of my room mates this year have also been able to get student loans and credit union loans, one of them has one of each.
    you get 3K(2K goes to fees) and have you tried to get a student loan in the last 3 years its nearly impossible

    yes, see above, every year for the last 4 and it has not been a big problem


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