[Article] Council may end all free parking in Dublin city centre

BrianD

According to The Irish Times

ALL FREE on-street parking in Dublin city centre and inner suburbs is set to be eliminated under new plans by Dublin City Council.

Until now residents could chose whether their street would be subject to parking charges though a local vote. However, under new proposals from the city’s traffic department the council would “impose” disc parking in certain areas.

The proposals, which will be presented to city councillors this week, would also see the elimination of any free or uncontrolled parking spaces still available on side streets in the city centre.

The area selected for total parking control by the council includes all streets between the Royal Canal on the north side of the city and the Grand Canal on the south side, as well as “adjacent areas” as yet to be defined by the council.

The council currently has 33,000 controlled pay-and-display parking spaces and 1,200 parking ticket machines governed by six prices depending on proximity to the city centre.

It also issues 18,200 parking permits to residents who live in streets where paid parking has been chosen by a plebiscite. Residents usually opt for parking controls on their street when there is no off-street parking or where there is fierce competition for spaces due to proximity to the city centre or to transport links.

The new proposals would mean that residents living close to the city centre who have not chosen paid parking would have it imposed upon them. The council could also select areas close to the canals, in parts of suburbs such as Glasnevin and Harold’s Cross, which they believe are in need of parking controls.

In the report the traffic department stresses that it is the policy of the council to discourage commuter parking and ensure adequate but not excessive parking provision for short-term shopping and leisure use.

The income to the council from paid parking has fallen in recent years from €28.6 million in 2008 to €26.8 million in 2009 and just over €25 million last year.

While there are few remaining free parking spaces in the central area, regular commuters would often be aware of “hidden” free spaces in little-used side streets and their complete elimination should help boost revenues.

However, it is the imposition of parking controls in residential areas which is more likely help the city’s parking income recover.

Currently residents’ parking permits cost €40 for one year or €70 for two years. In addition to the revenue from residents, any non-residents would have buy a pay-and-display parking ticket to park in a street that acquires parking controls.

In May 2009 the council introduced an electronic parking-tag system to allow motorists with a credit or debit card to pay for parking by phone call or text message. Last Christmas the council ran an eight-week, half-price parking promotion for motorists using the tag system.

Before the promotion weekly parking tag revenues were an average of €39,784; following the promotion, weekly revenues rose to €50,560. The traffic department said it intended to introduce new tag promotions this year, along with the elimination of free spaces.

The cost of parking enforcement, operated by Dublin Street Parking Services, was €9.2 million in 2010, with income from fines, clamping, etc, at €4.5 million.

L1011

I wasn't aware that they'd left ANY free parking spaces within the canals - and only one sideroad that I do use the odd time outside it.

Surely there aren't any left in areas where there'd be much revenue to squeeze in that case? Blood and stone come to mind...

AlekSmart

BrianD wrote: »

According to The Irish Times

ALL FREE on-street parking in Dublin city centre and inner suburbs is set to be eliminated under new plans by Dublin City Council.

Hmmmm...I wonder will this include the single "Free Space" at the top of Chelmsford Road just before Ranelagh Village which an SUV totin individual has made his very own.

Mind you it`s totally down to the incompetence of the very same City Council who never bothered to re-mark the Pay and Display boundary and the Bus Stop Markings.....so why after years of ineptitude should they suddenly start now ????

robd

Eliminating the free for all on a Sunday would likely yield better results, particularly around say Glasnevin and Drumcondra due to their proximity to Croke Park.

They need to make the residents parking much more efficient and cost effective also.

trellheim

I see it is being taken out of context

It is SIO32 of the Draft Plan, page 63 of 435

SIO32 To progressively eliminate all 'free' on-street parking, both within the canals and in adjacent areas, where there is evidence of 'all day' commuter parking, through the imposition of appropriate parking controls, including disc parking

http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/DublinCityDevelopmentPlan/Documents/Dev_Plan_-_Vol_1_-_Written_Statement.pdf

BrianD

There are still quite a few streets not covered by P&D. I know two that were recently converted and the council were quite proactive in getting the residents voting. Plenty of free spaces around East Wall and Sherrif St. Poles are erected years but no signs attached..

I believe that the DSPS contract is up for renewal this year and rightly or wrongly the disparity of contract cost and revenue from clamping will be highlighted. It operates at a just under €5m loss (approx).

The Council need to be seen to generating revenue from all parking spaces.

Cookie_Monster

more good news :rolleyes:

the powers that be seem to want to do everything possible to keep people out of town, between DB scaling back off peak service and pricing up any remaining parking spots (at outrageous prices), increasing PT costs recently.

monument

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

more good news :rolleyes:

the powers that be seem to want to do everything possible to keep people out of town, between DB scaling back off peak service and pricing up any remaining parking spots (at outrageous prices), increasing PT costs recently.

The move is aimed at stopping commuters from parking in spaces all day. Parking spaces which are open to "short-term shopping, business and leisure use" are much more productive spaces.

It's nonsense to try to make out that this will affect many shoppers etc as most people shopping the city centre do have to pay.

eia340600

I honestly thought that the council had seen sense and was going to strictly limit the amount of street parking in the city, to try and improve urban fabric.But, surprise surprise, they're trying to boost revenue....

Aard

If I were on DCC, I'd also be trying to raise revenue. (Perhaps not by this method, but that's not the point.) Most local governments in Europe are allowed to tax their citizens somehow, which would be their primary source of revenue.

Denmark has roughly a 25% income tax for municipalities. France has habitation and property taxes in the communes. We have commercial rates and waste fees. This is simply not enough, and now the biggest local authority in the country is parched. There's only so much blood in the commercial stone, not to mention central govt handouts (yerra, Dublin gets everything...).

This isn't a transport issue, it's not an urban renual issue, it's not even a carbon reduction issue. It's pure and simple an issue of lack of funding due to the centralised structure of the country. The irony is that while the focus is Dublin, it's also the first to feel the pain. To whoever the current Minister for XYZ and Local Govt is: pull the finger out and implement some real decentralisation fast.

antoinolachtnai

There is free parking on North Wall Quay and all it does is facilitate commuter cars. It seems crazy.

BrianD

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is free parking on North Wall Quay and all it does is facilitate commuter cars. It seems crazy.

The situation on North Wall Quay is a disgrace and so is the way the council are managing it (I have already notified them of this and their response was arrogant to put it mildly).

There is free parking on the river side of NWQ. Apparently this is because an east-west bus lane will be introduced in the future.

Saville Row is supposed to be P&D. Bays are marked out and the poles for signs erected. Nothings happened.

antoinolachtnai

They tell me that they need to resurface the road before they can put in the bus lane. I don't see much wrong with the surface of the road. There are a few potholes beside building sites but that's about it.

BrianD

There was extensive roadworkd between the junction with New Wapping St. and The O2. The road was supposed to be resurfaced last November and then the bad weather set in.

I was also told that some of the existing P&D spaces would be removed to facilitate the bus lane.

antoinolachtnai

This resurfacing was done in February. They are saying that it needs to be resurfaced again. (actually they say it needs to be reconstructed.)

hmmm

We have a city which is zoned for relatively low density, lowrise housing so pushing people of working age far out into the hinterlands which are poorly served by public transport. Now, they want to close the city off to anyone who doesn't have access to public transport. It's madness.

Aard

hmmm wrote: »

Now, they want to close the city off to anyone who doesn't have access to public transport. It's madness.

That's an incredible exaggeration.

There's no talk of "closing off". They're just making it all Pay & Display. People with cars can still go in, just now they'll have to pay for parking instead of finding a side-street. "Closing off" would be a complete pedestrianisation, or maybe a congestion charge. This is nowhere near that.

monument

hmmm wrote: »

We have a city which is zoned for relatively low density, lowrise housing so pushing people of working age far out into the hinterlands which are poorly served by public transport. Now, they want to close the city off to anyone who doesn't have access to public transport. It's madness.

Some context:

In the Greater Dublin Area (Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, South Dublin, Fingal, Meath, Kildare, and Wicklow) only 25% of the population lives in the hinterlands. And some of the largest hinterland areas have rail access, not even to mention buses too.

That's compared to 47% living within the M50. And another 27% living outside the M50, mostly just outside it.



Only about 2% of the total trips in the Greater Dublin Area at peek morning hours are made from the hinterland to the city centre...



Graphs from the NTA, details here.

BrianD

monument wrote: »

Some context:

In the Greater Dublin Area (Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, South Dublin, Fingal, Meath, Kildare, and Wicklow) only 25% of the population lives in the hinterlands. And some of the largest hinterland areas have rail access, not even to mention buses too.

That's compared to 47% living within the M50. And another 27% living outside the M50, mostly just outside it.



Only about 2% of the total trips in the Greater Dublin Area at peek morning hours are made from the hinterland to the city centre...



Graphs from the NTA, details here.

A little selective quoting of the facts. Hmmm hit the nail on the head. Low density sprawl extends extends from 1km of the GPO outwards.

What is Dublin's hinterland anyway? One would argue that in the boom years it extended to the border, out to Athlone and back around to places like Gorey in the south. As the government conveniently decided to ignore the National Spatial Plan it has led to a situation where you could build suburban housing estates in the middle of nowhere while Dublin still remained the major employment and education centre for a large hinterland.

However, given that P&D has been in place right through the boom years when we could all afford cars and were working, I don't think DCC getting rid of the the few free spaces that remain especially under the current economic situation is going to make a whole of difference. Public transport services have grown substantially over the past 20 years so there are plenty of options.

Just on a point of information - the data you are quoting is that 'all trips' or just car trips?

monument

BrianD wrote: »

A little selective quoting of the facts. Hmmm hit the nail on the head. Low density sprawl extends extends from 1km of the GPO outwards.

What is Dublin's hinterland anyway? One would argue that in the boom years it extended to the border, out to Athlone and back around to places like Gorey in the south. As the government conveniently decided to ignore the National Spatial Plan it has led to a situation where you could build suburban housing estates in the middle of nowhere while Dublin still remained the major employment and education centre for a large hinterland.

However, given that P&D has been in place right through the boom years when we could all afford cars and were working, I don't think DCC getting rid of the the few free spaces that remain especially under the current economic situation is going to make a whole of difference. Public transport services have grown substantially over the past 20 years so there are plenty of options.

Just on a point of information - the data you are quoting is that 'all trips' or just car trips?

Selective how exactly? Why on earth would Dublin City Council take the fraction of people travelling from Gorey or Athlone into account when deciding about on-street parking charges?

The Greater Dublin Area hinterland is defined and mapped out in the link in my last post. The GDA accounts for 39.3% of Ireland's population and Co Dublin alone accounts for 28%.

Most people travelling into the City Centre (ie within the canals) by car are doing so from within Co Dublin and even the bulk of them are coming from inside and around the M50. The census and other surveys show a crazy amount of people travelling short distances by car.

The data is all trips.

Also, where is the "Low density sprawl" 1km from the GPO:

-Chris-

monument wrote: »

OT, but I love the way they've included Phoenix Park as 0-1,000 - where would you drop the Census forms?? One in the Aras and one in the American Ambassador's residence?.

Unless there are people sleeping under their desks in Garda HQ or the OSI there's probably only 5 people living in the Park!

BostonB

monument wrote: »

....The Greater Dublin Area hinterland is defined and mapped out in the link in my last post. The GDA accounts for 39.3% of Ireland's population and Co Dublin alone accounts for 28%.

Most people travelling into the City Centre (ie within the canals) by car are doing so from within Co Dublin and even the bulk of them are coming from inside and around the M50. The census and other surveys show a crazy amount of people travelling short distances by car.....

That would seem to leave out the majority of D.15, and everything out the N3, I'm sure its the same on N2, N4 etc. I assumed by the traffic theres a lot of population outside the M50 coming into GDA.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

That would seem to leave out the majority of D.15, and everything out the N3, I'm sure its the same on N2, N4 etc. I assumed by the traffic theres a lot of population outside the M50 coming into GDA.

The map in the last post was purely to counter the claim that there was "low density sprawl" within 1km of the GPO... If that was causing the confusion?

The Greater Dublin Area is Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, South Dublin, Fingal, Meath, Kildare, and Wicklow (It maybe should include Drogheda or part of it too, but that's another story).

Nothing I said there leaves out D15 -- it's in the GDA, it's in Co Dublin, and it's in my undefined "around the M50".

For clarity here's the NTA's map of the GDA and how they define the areas:

snappieT

monument wrote: »

There are > 1000 people/sqkm living on Bull Island? Where?!? I know there are a couple of houses, but nothing close to that.

Aard

Bull Island is split in two, and each is part of a mainland District Electoral Division.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

The map in the last post was purely to counter the claim that there was "low density sprawl" within 1km of the GPO... If that was causing the confusion?

The Greater Dublin Area is Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, South Dublin, Fingal, Meath, Kildare, and Wicklow (It maybe should include Drogheda or part of it too, but that's another story).

Nothing I said there leaves out D15 -- it's in the GDA, it's in Co Dublin, and it's in my undefined "around the M50".

For clarity here's the NTA's map of the GDA and how they define the areas:.....

I didn't realise that Meath was in GDA tbh. But I was mainly quibbling, about the comment about the bulk of it coming from inside M50 or around it. Around the M50 is quite vague if you mean that to include Meath.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

I didn't realise that Meath was in GDA tbh. But I was mainly quibbling, about the comment about the bulk of it coming from inside M50 or around it. Around the M50 is quite vague if you mean that to include Meath.

Yes, it is fairly loose... By around the M50 I mean around what the NTA map above shows as the "outer suburbs".

The bulk of people travelling into city centre (inside the canals) are from the outer and inner suburbs. As the graphs show 23% all GDA trips are from the outer and inner suburbs to the city centre, that's compared to 4% of total trips which are made up by

To be clear: I'm not saying there's not a large amount of people travelling from the hinterland to the city centre, I'm just say that they are outnumbered by those coming from the suburbs.

BrianD

monument wrote: »

Selective how exactly? Why on earth would Dublin City Council take the fraction of people travelling from Gorey or Athlone into account when deciding about on-street parking charges?

The Greater Dublin Area hinterland is defined and mapped out in the link in my last post. The GDA accounts for 39.3% of Ireland's population and Co Dublin alone accounts for 28%.

Most people travelling into the City Centre (ie within the canals) by car are doing so from within Co Dublin and even the bulk of them are coming from inside and around the M50. The census and other surveys show a crazy amount of people travelling short distances by car.

The data is all trips.

Also, where is the "Low density sprawl" 1km from the GPO:

I hadn't seen that DTO/NTA report before and it does make interesting reading. However, I think the 'hinterland' as they define is not in keeping with reality. It should be what they define it but in reality Dublin is "drawing" from well from outside this area.

In regard, to Dublin and low density sprawl. It would be factual to state - and if you were to characterise Dublin as a city - that it is a city of low density sprawl. Certainly those densities increase within the canals and there's no disputing that but within a short distance of the city centre you're into typically 2-3 story housing stock with back gardens. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions but that's the general situation that would characterise Dublin.

Back on topic, I don't believe that the DCC actions in removing free spaces will make much difference. That 2% who do commute from the hinterland have almost certainly got prearranged parking spots and wouldn't be relying on whether they can a random free space or not upon arrival each morning.

Making more P&D spots available helps business - those who may need to visit the city centre for a short visit to do business or shopping are more likely to get a space.

BrianD

monument wrote:

Selective how exactly? Why on earth would Dublin City Council take the fraction of people travelling from Gorey or Athlone into account when deciding about on-street parking charges?

Why wouldn't they?

From other boards you tend to greatly exaggerate the population density and I may have misinterpreted your motive for posting this (interesting) data that combines both CSO data and surveys. Apologies if this is the case.

The poster who mentioned that it would adversely affect those commuting from beyond the pale does have a point in that a large percentage of those journeys are made by car. However, I doubt if those people would be driving that distance without a guaranteed parking spot so the liklihood is that they have off street parking.

Dublin is still a very much a city centre focussed city (for all the wrong reasons).

BostonB

BrianD wrote: »

W...However, I doubt if those people would be driving that distance without a guaranteed parking spot so the liklihood is that they have off street parking. ...

+1

I don't think it will make that much difference to the volume.

Parking around Mater, and Temple Street would be a problem through.

dowlingm

Bizarre that Drogheda (50km) "not part of GDA" but Arklow (70km) somehow is. Do I smell politics?

Aard

I imagine it's something stupid like the county has to border County Dublin. County Louth doesn't, so it's not included, even though it's location on the east coast makes it a prime candidate for inclusion in the GDA.

It's ridiculous to draw it on such high-level administrative lines anyway. It should be based on the Functional Urban Area* of Dublin. Not some vague county lines.


*FUA is a harmonised EU definition of metropolitan areas. For reference, the harmonised definition for urban/built-up areas is Morphological Urban Area.

antoinolachtnai

This is more a thing for the transport strategy thread, but it can be changed by ministerial order. You could write in and suggest that.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0015/sec0003.html#sec3

I don't know exactly how it would change anything though.

gurramok

I wouldn't mind some of Ringsend where its still free becoming P&D as the East Link draws hell of alot of commuter parking to the local area.