Were the WWE right to continue their PPV the night of Owen Hart's death?

Motley Crue

In 1999 the WWE held a PPV called Over The Edge, at which one of their wrestlers Owen Hart (wrestling under a gimmick called Blue Blazer) suffered a fatal fall during his entrance and later died in hospital, the nearest thing to an in ring death professional wrestling has seen.

In the immediate aftermath of the fall, which thankfully wasn't broadcast on TV, Owen was worked on by paramedics while Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler (both in obvious shock and assuring viewers this was not part of the storyline) broke character to try and assess what was unfolding before them. The men then announced to the crowd at home that Hart had died shortly before the evenings main event.

Over the Edge 99 was never released on Home Video and there is little to no mention of the event in WWE cannon (even the PPV name Over The Edge was abandoned)

But in the immediate aftermath, while paramedics treated Owen Hart, why didn't Vince McMahon decide (instead of performing later that evening) to cancel the event there and then. Obviously the circumstances meant that he should have waited until Hart had been transported to ambulance and then told the audience, with the greatest concern, that the event was over. With the card played out (and most of the performers looking literally devastated) surely the PPV should have been stopped.

Even when his death was learned, in advance of the night's main event, it should have been the end of the PPV with immediate effect and the night's main card should not have gone ahead.

Why would Vince have continued with this event? How much money could be possibly have lost if he'd just thrown in the towel the moment Hart was injured.

bradlente

Have to agree with you.I remember Jeff Jerrett and Debra making their entrance for what I think was the next match absolutely shattered.

D.Q

Bret made a very good point in his book saying something long the lines of "if it had been shane who fell from the roof, there was no way the ppv would continue"

Cactus Colm

D.Q wrote: »

Bret made a very good point in his book saying something long the lines of "if it had been shane who fell from the roof, there was no way the ppv would continue"

I think that's a bit unfair though ... obviously the death of a family member is treated differently to the death of an employee. I've never watched the ppv, and wouldn't.

Speaking from the outside, 12 years later, it's easy to say that vince and co should have stopped the event there and then. However, the industry is notorious for "the show must go on" attitude. I can't remember the full story of what happened that night, but I think he was only pronounced dead upon arriving at the hospital. The show was continued after Owen Hart was taken from the ring and left in the ambulance. That's par for the course when it comes to wrestling, there have been career and even life threatening injuries that have happened on ppv and television (such as hardcore holly's broken neck) where the shows have continued.

Should it have been stopped when the top brass learnt of his death? Maybe so, but at that stage the even was already in progress, so I can certainly see how the thought process would be to "just get through the night".

Not saying it was the right decision, but I think it's an understandable one.

flahavaj

I'm sure the show carrying on wasn't motivated by financial concerns to be fair. Often in the entertainment world theres a mentality of "the show must go on" no matter what. I'm sure everyone was in such shock at the time that any decision they made in such a state can't really be criticised in hindsight.

Edit: Ha, snap cactus!

parker kent

They obviously weren't in position to think things through immediately after he fell, but once he was confirmed dead Vince should have came out to the ring and made the announcement whilst cancelling the show. Having JR announce it on commentary and then carry on just seemed crass to me at the time.

If my 13 year old self was able to think it should be cancelled, Vince should have done so.

johnn

How come the fall didn't make it to air if it was the start of his entrance? or did he fall before he was meant to start making his proper entrance with music?

I remember watching it when I was a kid and they showed the build-up package, then cut to an interview with Blue Blazer from Sunday night Heat which is obviously where he had fallen and they were trying to kill time, how the cameras weren't on the ring in anticipation of Owen entering is what i don't understand.

Has anyone ever seen the footage of the fall? via amateur cam or anything?

McLoughlin

johnn wrote: »

How come the fall didn't make it to air if it was the start of his entrance? or did he fall before he was meant to start making his proper entrance with music?

I remember watching it when I was a kid and they showed the build-up package, then cut to an interview with Blue Blazer from Sunday night Heat which is obviously where he had fallen and they were trying to kill time, how the cameras weren't on the ring in anticipation of Owen entering is what i don't understand.

Has anyone ever seen the footage of the fall? via amateur cam or anything?

The fall happened when they were showing a promo so it wasn't shown live Owen fell before he was due to desend so the cameras weren't on him and the arena was in darkness there is no footage of the fall only a few photos but if there is footage it will never be released he was alive when he left the arena so thats why it continues but he was pronounced doa at the hospital the crowd in the arena were not told he died only those watching at home.

bradlente

Apparently he was dead on arrival and CPR failed in the ring.So I would say they could of and should of canceled it then and there,They knew it wasn't a minor injury by any means.

Its a sticky situation though,I don't judge the "E" too harsh on the decision to continue.I'd say some wrestlers might have preffered to get in the ring to try and forget or numb what had happened and the tragedy that unfolded that night,Try and work out some of the initial shock and pain in a way...

Cactus Colm

parker kent wrote: »

They obviously weren't in position to think things through immediately after he fell, but once he was confirmed dead Vince should have came out to the ring and made the announcement whilst cancelling the show. Having JR announce it on commentary and then carry on just seemed crass to me at the time.

If my 13 year old self was able to think it should be cancelled, Vince should have done so.

I think though, you have to keep in mind that everything everyone was doing that night prior to the incident was geared to putting on a show, and overcoming any problems that may prevent one. THe whole mindset would automatically preclude cancelling the show, not to mention having an arena full of over 15,000 fans.

bradlente wrote: »

Apparently he was dead on arrival and CPR failed in the ring.So I would say they could of and should of canceled it then and there,They knew it wasn't a minor injury by any means.

Its a sticky situation though,I don't judge the "E" too harsh on the decision to continue.I'd say some wrestlers might have preffered to get in the ring to try and forget or numb what had happened and the tragedy that unfolded that night,Try and work out some of the initial shock and pain in a way...

... but wwe have a history of continuing on shows despite major injuries such as Austin's broken neck. With Pro Wrestling this attitude seems to be common enough, Chris Benoit broke Sabu's neck at the November 2 Remember ppv, this was to be the main event, 2 Cold Scorpio came out and had a match with Benoit instead, at WCW Halloween Havoc 1992, Vader literally broke the back of Joe Thurman, paralyzing the chap for several hours. While nobody died in those incidents I think it's fair to say they were all life threatening situations.

drayme

Like the Benoit situation the company was just in shock. You can presented arguments either way but you are building rational cases about the decision in hindsight.

GTR63

I despise the whole show must go on stance wrestling has(I remember the RAW after Benoits death before the double murder suicide was known being a tribute show).I can't think of anyone who would complain if the event ended when a man fell 50 feet to almost certain death(odds of surviving a fall that high must be very,very low).Injuries happen & unforeseen problems occur but a death is a death.I remember watching the tape of this event & being disgusted even aged 10 the ppv continued.Having JR announce his death on commentary made my skin crawl.

Degag

GTR63 wrote: »

I despise the whole show must go on stance wrestling has(I remember the RAW after Benoits death before the double murder suicide was known being a tribute show).

I'm not sure what your point is regarding this. Nobody knew the full details of Benoits death at the time of RAW that night. At the time it looked like a very tragic death of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. If Benoit's death had turned out to have been "innocent" and the WWE had not put on a tribute show, they'd have been villified aswell.

seanybiker

I remember watching that live. Was strange to say the least but they carried on in a professional way. Years are after flying. Didn't think it was that long ago

Motley Crue

Degag wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is regarding this. Nobody knew the full details of Benoits death at the time of RAW that night. At the time it looked like a very tragic death of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. If Benoit's death had turned out to have been "innocent" and the WWE had not put on a tribute show, they'd have been villified aswell.

True enough, although in the tributes to Benoit, it was clear Regal knew something or was aware of an alternative story that was gaining momentum by the way he acted on camera.

On the night of Hart's tribute, many felt that it was wrong for The Undertaker not to be seen with the rest of the crew at the beginning of the night, although I believe the story he gave for that was not wanting to drop his image - although many people state that the Undertaker was so pissed with Vince for continuing the show he didn't turn up in protest. Mark Calloway apparently carries a lot of weight in the dressing room.

GTR63

Degag wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is regarding this. Nobody knew the full details of Benoits death at the time of RAW that night. At the time it looked like a very tragic death of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. If Benoit's death had turned out to have been "innocent" and the WWE had not put on a tribute show, they'd have been villified aswell.

I was saying that they canceled Raw,no fans the show didn't go on. They showed old Benoit matches.They knew Benoit & his family was dead & on short notice they said no live Raw tonite.Then again wwe were under the microscope so to speak at the time (this was around the time Wrestlers were more regularly suspended for drug use) & were in a small way free to run wild with their popularity back in 99.

GTR63

Motley Crue wrote: »

On the night of Hart's tribute, many felt that it was wrong for The Undertaker not to be seen with the rest of the crew at the beginning of the night, although I believe the story he gave for that was not wanting to drop his image - although many people state that the Undertaker was so pissed with Vince for continuing the show he didn't turn up in protest. Mark Calloway apparently carries a lot of weight in the dressing room.

I'm 99.999% sure he came out the time of the 9/11 tribute show then again he was doing the American Bad Ass thing & not the "Deadman" character he seems to rate to a arrogant & at times childish degree. I don't remember where I read it but didn't DX not come either the time Brian Pillman died,never seen that event(Bad Blood 97) but have seen that Hell in a Cell match.

Cactus Colm

GTR63 wrote: »

I was saying that they canceled Raw,no fans the show didn't go on. They showed old Benoit matches.They knew Benoit & his family was dead & on short notice they said no live Raw tonite.Then again wwe were under the microscope so to speak at the time (this was around the time Wrestlers were more regularly suspended for drug use) & were in a small way free to run wild with their popularity back in 99.

Unfortunately though, when benoit died the WWE were a bit more practiced in dealing with wrestler deaths. The main storyline at the time was also Vince's supposed death, so that story had to be completely scrapped.

Brian Pillman died on the day of a ppv (Badd Blood In Your House in 1997), he was due to wrestle Mankind. I'd imagine there were quite a number of wrestlers who didn't feel like wrestling that night, but as it goes, the show must go on.

gimmick

When Marc Vivien Foe died on the pitch during a Cameroon match, the game was not abandoned. Nor was the game which followed involving France.

Had the show been cancelled on the spot, there would have been a fecking riot. I think a hard decision was made, and was probably the correct one.

davrho

gimmick wrote: »

When Marc Vivien Foe died on the pitch during a Cameroon match, the game was not abandoned. Nor was the game which followed involving France.

Had the show been cancelled on the spot, there would have been a fecking riot. I think a hard decision was made, and was probably the correct one.

Correct. Same with Phil O'Donnell.

Sports/entertainment events with large crowds are not going to be stopped because of an isolated incident. If the incident effected the safety of the crowd then it would be different. Call me cold hearted but i see the reasoning behind this.

What do they do in the formula 1 when there is near death/death incidents? Is the race stopped?

The OP seems a bit of a morbid fecker with his threads to be honest.

parker kent

gimmick wrote: »

When Marc Vivien Foe died on the pitch during a Cameroon match, the game was not abandoned. Nor was the game which followed involving France.

Had the show been cancelled on the spot, there would have been a fecking riot. I think a hard decision was made, and was probably the correct one.

They are not like-for-like comparisons. The Foe situation only became apparent when the players were in the dressing room afterwards. They didn't know he was dead until that point. The following game went ahead when the Cameroon FA and Foe's family said it should go ahead as a tribute. The offer to cancel was on the table. Plus there is a big difference in the immediate aftermath and 4 days later. Which is different to what Vince did with the Austin/Taker main event. The players would be on the pitch in a football match, or F1 drivers would be out on the track. It would be difficult to call a halt without causing confusion. However, it is far easier in wrestling.

I highly doubt there would be a riot were Vince to come out and said that one of the biggest names in wrestling had just died due to fall that you say earlier and that out of respect for him the show was being cancelled.

thebostoncrab

parker kent wrote: »

They are not like-for-like comparisons. The Foe situation only became apparent when the players were in the dressing room afterwards. They didn't know he was dead until that point.

But that's the thing, Owen wasn't dead (as far as I know) when he left the ring. Yes he was in a very bad way, but his heart was still beating. They carried on with the show thinking he was alive.

When JR announced that he had passed on, that's were it gets tricky. Personally I think it's a call that is impossible to make, because it's going to leave a group unhappy anyway (Yes, I am saying that some people would have been pissed off with the show getting cancelled after Owens death became known. I'm not one of them, but they would have reared their heads.)

While it's always seen as a cold thing to state, it is a fact, that had the show been cancelled Vince would have lost alot of money. Fans would have had to have refunds for live attendence and the PPV. All the advertising, production and wages that would have had to be paid for would have resulted in a massive loss for the company. We can sit here and say that some things are above money, and I'll agree on that, but loosing so much could have had a big knock on event, which from a business point of view made allowing the show to go on a right move. It's sad, it's a tad bit sickening, but it's the truth. Business is never about making friends, it's about making cash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should be viewed at from a business mind-set only, and I'm not disagreeing with those who are saying it should have been cancelled. It's very easy to see why the fans should have been sent home with the option of a refund, and if Vince had of done it I would view him with even more respect than I already have for the man. But from a finacial stand point it would have been a stupid thing for Vince to do, and he is a business man.

God I sound like a broken record, but I really want to make this clear so people don't think I'm someone who puts profit before people, I don't fully agree with the show going on. I think it's an impossible call to make and if I was a simular position I'd say every second day I would change my mind on what to do.

TLDR: On a human side, it's a near impossible call to get correct. From a business side it was the right thing to do.

parker kent

thebostoncrab wrote: »

But that's the thing, Owen wasn't dead (as far as I know) when he left the ring. Yes he was in a very bad way, but his heart was still beating. They carried on with the show thinking he was alive.

I know that and have already made my comments saying they were right to continue up until they found out he had died.

There have been PPVs cancelled in the past (such as the one cancelled due to a power cut). I'm sure there is some way they could have worked out another show with the Austin/Taker main event to offset the losses with advertising etc. From a business perspective, I don't think they would have suffered too much as it was just one night. If anything, carrying on with the main event could be seen as bad for business due to the negative publicity they received and are still receiving.

I'm not saying it was an easy decision, but stopping the PPV was the right decision in my view.

Motley Crue

davrho wrote: »

The OP seems a bit of a morbid fecker with his threads to be honest.

Perhaps you would care not to insult me in the future thanks.

This is simply a topic which sparked debate, that's the point of us being here isn't it, to debate things? And I made one other thread relating to death, talking about wrestlers who had died too young, that was just more of a tribute and if the only thing you can take from that is that they're dead then you're missing the point of what they achieved in life.

It's because I loved the skill Owen Hart showed during his life that I raise this topic in the first place, not because I mourn his death, I do mourn for the loss but obviously not on a personal level - I'm saddened by the loss of the great matches he could have had if he'd lived and by the way this accident was treated by his employer. If anything it's a H&S issue.

Dyaso

From interviews and so on through the years i think the general view from most of the wrestlers was that they did not want to perform once hearing the news. Didnt foley say something about they were told not to do anything big in the corner where he fell as there was a hole in the canvas!

I did watch this even a few weeks back on VHS tho and even tho they did just lose there mate, they still gave it all for the fans, every promo before the matches someone said something for owen and during the rocks match, he took one of the spanish headsets and doing his usual jabroni rant and then says, "i love ya owen"

With everything that has been said, i think the reason that was given was incase the arena went into riot! who knows what the fans where thinkin that. Yes they saw what happened but it didnt really take much away from their atmosphere for the night so ya never know.

davrho

A debate over things that happened years ago and the ends have been tied up. Whats left to say on this? Petty squabbling is all your going to get and i could tell you before i even read a post who was going to back Vince and who would be against him.

Drayme has the best point here.

It was a H&S issue and investigated as such.

Its pretty souless and on a human level low but the other side its business. 16,000 in the arena and god knows how many watching on ppv. I have no idea what the implications of stopping a ppv half way through the show would be for the paying tv audience,sponers etc and IMO money should never be put before life. But the decision was made. I don't think we will change anybodies minds or the past and god forbid it ever happens again but i reckon the show would go on.

Sorry for the morbid comment not in the best of moods this afternoon

bradlente

Cactus Colm wrote: »

... but wwe have a history of continuing on shows despite major injuries such as Austin's broken neck. With Pro Wrestling this attitude seems to be common enough, Chris Benoit broke Sabu's neck at the November 2 Remember ppv, this was to be the main event, 2 Cold Scorpio came out and had a match with Benoit instead, at WCW Halloween Havoc 1992, Vader literally broke the back of Joe Thurman, paralyzing the chap for several hours. While nobody died in those incidents I think it's fair to say they were all life threatening situations.

I don't really get your point.Austins injury was no where near as severe as Owen Harts obviously(Not to be insulting to his injury,or your intelligence by suggesting you believe it was as severe.)Of course Austin was in a bad way,but he was moving and conscious and talking.If they really feared the worst Austin could have chosen to not finish the match.When Mick Foley went through the cell the 2nd time they had people in the ring straight away to assess the damage, thats one thing they should have done with Austin,and in fairness Owens death might of been the reason why they had medical attention on the scene right away then.What other time has there been an accident anywhere near the calibre of Harts where they continued with the show?(I won't be suprised if someone finds 1 but I can't think of any right now.)If the Harts felt strongly about not wrestling at Badd Blood after Pillmans death they surely wouldn't have.

I agree with you that PW has an attitude of "the show must go on".All legit sports do the same thing and I think PW does it for that reason.

off subject
I wonder if the show was canceled when Brusier Brody was stabbed?

bradlente

davrho wrote: »

A debate over things that happened years ago and the ends have been tied up. Whats left to say on this? Petty squabbling is all your going to get and i could tell you before i even read a post who was going to back Vince and who would be against him.

This was nice.

It was the "petty squabbling"(I like to call it opinion) you indulged in afterwards that confused me

:P

steelcityblues

Wrong IMO.

Like with most millionaires/billionaires, that night showed how obsessed Vince was with the $, instead of packing up and giving people their refunds. They were a very profitable company by this stage, and looking at it coldly, it would've been good PR to do such a thing. Then again, the incident came at the height of the Monday Wars too, where his ego by all accounts was running rampant.

Also, it was very irresponsible behaviour towards the wrestlers on the roster to make them go on. Will never forget Jeff Jarrett's face of complete shock/panic just minutes after his friend's tragic incident. Also, Austin and Undertaker were on the verge of breakdown when walking down for the main event later.

I also think making wrestlers go in front of a camera to express their grief less than 24 hrs later was/ is manipulative too.

All about the $ in Vince's mindset though!

Hamadafan

I'll give Vince the benefit of the doubt since he didn't have much time, and had to think on his feet. Just so happened he made the wrong choice.

Cactus Colm

bradlente wrote: »

I don't really get your point.Austins injury was no where near as severe as Owen Harts obviously(Not to be insulting to his injury,or your intelligence by suggesting you believe it was as severe.)Of course Austin was in a bad way,but he was moving and conscious and talking.If they really feared the worst Austin could have chosen to not finish the match.When Mick Foley went through the cell the 2nd time they had people in the ring straight away to assess the damage, thats one thing they should have done with Austin,and in fairness Owens death might of been the reason why they had medical attention on the scene right away then.What other time has there been an accident anywhere near the calibre of Harts where they continued with the show?(I won't be suprised if someone finds 1 but I can't think of any right now.)If the Harts felt strongly about not wrestling at Badd Blood after Pillmans death they surely wouldn't have.

I agree with you that PW has an attitude of "the show must go on".All legit sports do the same thing and I think PW does it for that reason.

While obviously the injury to Austin wasn't as serious as Owen Hart's injuries (hence him not dying) it shows just how ingrained the show must go on mentality is, not just with the promoters, but the wrestlers themselves. Any neck injury is serious, any body with medical training will tell you, if a neck injury is even suspected to not move the victim, to have them lie still until medical help can arrive. When the victim is moved the chances of even more damage happening goes up.

I can think of three wrestlers who died in ring, Iron Mike DiBiase, Gary Albright, and Mitsuharu Misawa. Couldn't tell you if the show continued or not.

I can tell you thought that the show after Bruiser Brody's death was cancelled, but this was because many wrestlers refused to go. (or so I've read)

Charisteas

In my mind, they should have cancelled the show the second they learned of his death, however there have been some very valid points from posters here who said the show was right to continue.

One thing i didn't agree with though was the Benoit tribute show on the Monday Night Raw after his death. If there was any doubt that his death was by suspicious circumstances, and there obviously was doubt, then they should have waited until they had the full facts before deciding whether or not to broadcast a tribute show.

bradlente

Cactus Colm wrote: »

While obviously the injury to Austin wasn't as serious as Owen Hart's injuries (hence him not dying) it shows just how ingrained the show must go on mentality is, not just with the promoters, but the wrestlers themselves. Any neck injury is serious, any body with medical training will tell you, if a neck injury is even suspected to not move the victim, to have them lie still until medical help can arrive. When the victim is moved the chances of even more damage happening goes up.

I can think of three wrestlers who died in ring, Iron Mike DiBiase, Gary Albright, and Mitsuharu Misawa. Couldn't tell you if the show continued or not.

I can tell you thought that the show after Bruiser Brody's death was cancelled, but this was because many wrestlers refused to go. (or so I've read)

My question was in regards to WWF/E,not PW in general as your main point seemed to be about WWE not stopping the show when there are life threatening injuries.
Although I see your point with the neck injury,Austin constantly moving possibly gave me the illusion it wasn't that bad,chaps 1 tough SOB!

Honestly had no idea about Brody,Just out of interest as I was looking him up yesterday.He was killed by the booker so I'd like to think they cancelled the show:eek:

Exclamation Marc

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its so easy to damn somebody the day after.

At the end of the day, Vince had to think on the spot what to do. Whether he made the right or wrong decision, it was on the spot and probably before he even knew that Owen had died (as Owen passed away in the hospital, not in the ring) and none of us will ever know the burden of making that decision.

steelcityblues wrote: »

I also think making wrestlers go in front of a camera to express their grief less than 24 hrs later was/ is manipulative too.

Nobody was made go out the night after. I read years ago that they were prepared to show highlights and match reels all night but the performers wanted to go out and wrestle for Owen, they wanted to go out and pay tribute to Owen, so to say that the show the night after was manipulative is so wrong as everyone who went out there was doing it because they wanted to. Nobody was made do anything.

12gauge dave

i feel the show was right to go on to just get through the night to be fair what good was it gonna do to stop the event??? the wrestlers still went out and wrestled so maybe they felt the same!

it was a sad time in wwe:(

ya i feel a tibute to benoit was not the right thing to do as suspicions must of been very present in vinces mind!

Exclamation Marc

12gauge dave wrote: »

ya i feel a tibute to benoit was not the right thing to do as suspicions must of been very present in vinces mind!

I do think though that considering everybody around the world was shocked at what happened when the truth came out, that nobody in their right mind ever considered that Benoit killed his family.

When there were "suspicious" circumstances, the worst anyone thought was that they were killed or it was suicide so I think running a tribute show was the right thing to do.

If they delayed the tribute show and it turned out that Benoit was murdered, people would have absolutely slaughtered WWE for delaying a tribute show and thinking that one of their top guys was somehow at fault, if you get what I'm saying.

I think on one days notice, they were right to run that show.

12gauge dave

ya true they only had a day to decide either way vince was gonna get slack in the end and his actions cant be condoned in any way but chris was a great wrestler and the risk of not giving him a tribute without the true story is greater than the risk of giving him one and later finding out the circumstances