Mammy O'Rourke spouting deluded rubbish again

Liam Byrne

Today FM had her on again (don't know why, unless they're in on the joke of her constantly tripping herself up) and she came out with the statement that the electorate voted FF out "because they were sick of our faces".

Does anyone at the top level of FF have any cop-on or sense of what real people are thinking, or of the fact that they screwed up so badly many of their old supporters simply said "enough is enough" ?

If Ahern or Cowen or Lenihan were competent and had done their job, I wouldn't care how long they were in the job.

Prime example of that is Alex Ferguson.

Do FF really think we are idiots ?

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Today FM had her on again (don't know why, unless they're in on the joke of her constantly tripping herself up) and she came out with the statement that the electorate voted FF out "because they were sick of our faces".

Does anyone at the top level of FF have any cop-on or sense of what real people are thinking, or of the fact that they screwed up so badly many of their old supporters simply said "enough is enough" ?

If Ahern or Cowen or Lenihan were competent and had done their job, I wouldn't care how long they were in the job.

Prime example of that is Alex Ferguson.

Do FF really think we are idiots ?

I wouldn't consider Mary O'Rourke to be "at the top level of FF" and I don't think she speaks for anyone other than Mary O'Rourke. . . Those people who represent FF opinion, who were elected as FF TD's know full-well why FF took a drubbing at the most recent election.

Rubik.

Herself and her nephews share the same genetic affliction - the inability to take their share of the blame. O'Rourke blamed losing her seat on being part of a toxic brand, Conor came out with some guff along the lines of - no man withstand an avalanche and Brian blamed Cowen for everything

jakdelad

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Today FM had her on again (don't know why, unless they're in on the joke of her constantly tripping herself up) and she came out with the statement that the electorate voted FF out "because they were sick of our faces".

Does anyone at the top level of FF have any cop-on or sense of what real people are thinking, or of the fact that they screwed up so badly many of their old supporters simply said "enough is enough" ?

If Ahern or Cowen or Lenihan were competent and had done their job, I wouldn't care how long they were in the job.

Prime example of that is Alex Ferguson.

Do FF really think we are idiots ?

LAY OFF MAMMY
shes a sweetie and the only one in that wreatched party
that was decent and sincere

Liam Byrne

jakdelad wrote: »

LAY OFF MAMMY
shes a sweetie and the only one in that wreatched party
that was decent and sincere

Really ?

That is why she claimed on-air that FF should hold an election and then refused to raise said issue in the Dáil ?

The woman is a joke!

flutered

liam she is not a joke, just look at all her state pensions, surely jokers do not collect such vast amounts.

Liam Byrne

flutered wrote: »

liam she is not a joke, just look at all her state pensions, surely jokers do not collect such vast amounts.

I beg to differ, given the amounts that Cowen, Ahern, Callely, etc receive.

Jokers connected with FF get massive amounts.

Permabear

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Shea O'Meara

Permabear wrote: »

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I for one don't believe a person is freed of any culpability along with their seat. It seems politicians can do what they like and simply resign or lose their seat to avoid any fall out. We have to live with their actions for decades after.
Now is the time we should be asking the Garda to investigate the likes of below;
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/19378674/?view=Standard

Liam Byrne

Permabear wrote: »

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If only it were that simple. They might be "gone" (although they're still being invited on air to spout their lies and fiction) but their legacy lives on with us paying out fortunes because of their incompetence and corruption, and unless someone challenges the lies as they hear them and complains to the likes of Sam Smyth & Today FM that allow these lies to be broadcast unchallenged, then those more easily influenced could well be stupid enough to believe what they hear.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If only it were that simple. They might be "gone" (although they're still being invited on air to spout their lies and fiction) but their legacy lives on with us paying out fortunes because of their incompetence and corruption, and unless someone challenges the lies as they hear them and complains to the likes of Sam Smyth & Today FM that allow these lies to be broadcast unchallenged, then those more easily influenced could well be stupid enough to believe what they hear.

I didn't hear the interview but it sounds from your initial report that Mary O'Rourke was expressing an opinion as opposed to telling lies. She may be deluded and perhaps none of us agree with her but she is still entitled to her opinion.

Permabear

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Skrynesaver

Permabear wrote: »

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I'll quit bashing them when they step out into the free air after paying their debt to society in the 'Joy, until then we have failed to improve our society.

Liam Byrne

Permabear wrote: »

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Well, I'm not the one rehashing the lies, so you can take your primary objection up with herself & Ahern, etc. I commented on it because I heard her on the radio spouting the lies and party spin.

Secondly, if and when they are held to account for what they have done ......and I don't mean swanning off into the sunset with a massive pensions, but actual accountability whereby all of their crony appointments and payoffs are completely undone, as well as the country suing them for everything we've paid them due to their incompetence (and what other people gave them under the counter too) THEN I'll let it lie.

If there's an unsolved murder, people don't let it lie until the perpetrator is brought to justice.

Why should the white-collar crimes against the state be any different ?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I didn't hear the interview but it sounds from your initial report that Mary O'Rourke was expressing an opinion as opposed to telling lies. She may be deluded and perhaps none of us agree with her but she is still entitled to her opinion.

Interesting how she's only "deluded" in a manner that tries to put the party into a good light.

Selective delusion, like her former leader's selective memory, maybe ?

The bottom line is that it is party spin that she is spouting.

At least the good news is that she's now a nobody and can do no more damage other than polluting the airwaves.

Permabear

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Rubik.

Permabear wrote: »

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The problem is, we are going to be living with the consequences of the Cowen/Ahern/O'Rourke/Coughlan Governments well beyond the next decade. So I don't think it is unreasonable to have FF-bashing threads less than month after the election. Especially since the decisions to increase public spending by 6 billion euros beyond the Department of Finances recommendations between 1999 and 2008 were Cabinet decisions and the new leader of FF was a member of that Cabinet.

walrusgumble

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Really ?

That is why she claimed on-air that FF should hold an election and then refused to raise said issue in the Dáil ?

The woman is a joke!

You think that is bad. Remember the Roscommon Sex Scandal Affair in 2008?

Well, Fine Gael sought to pass a motion with regard to the HSE, Mammy stood up or at least went to the media stating that she was in full agreement but would not or could not vote for it and sided with her party (the motion failed) Maybe it was in a throw away Athlonian black Humour, but here reasons was simply that she could not vote in favour as it was a Fine Gael motion. Jesus H Christ. Still, her book should be good, even if its used later on for levelling the legs of the dinner table

jmayo

Permabear wrote: »

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"A nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it"

or perhaps we should consider this ....

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

Mad Benny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

she came out with the statement that the electorate voted FF out "because they were sick of our faces".

It's not entirely true. Have you seen Mary's arse lately?

aphex™

They're already trying to pretend nothing happened and it wasn't their fault. They will then try and use the 1916 anniversary to market themselves as some kind of great republican party before the next election, even though they've been ripping Irish people off for years.

They will wheel out the 'ah sure jaysus we did nothing wrong' crowd for the next 5 years.
I, for one, will not stand for it and these lazy journalist hacks had better find some new talking heads that haven't been guillotined by the public pretty fast.

aidan24326

jakdelad wrote: »

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A sweetie? Holy fcuk. You have low low standards.

Permabear wrote: »

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Let it sound like a broken record. These people need to know the level of disdain that we now have for them. They shouldn't be allowed to just ride off into the sunset with no consequences. I know that sadly that's probablty what will happen, but the media should no longer be giving the likes of O'Rourke any airtime at all. We no longer care what you have to say you old windbag.

Liam Byrne

Permabear wrote: »

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If we don't try to get that we certainly won't see it.

Permabear wrote: »

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You missed a massively relevant bit of your analogy; if it's like "suing the barman", then it's suing the one who served others mad amounts of drinks and then, when they couldn't pay THEIR bill, robbed you to pay it even though you didn't have a hangover and didn't drink much to begin with.

Noreen1

Personally, I hope FF continue to get publicly bashed for many years, yet.

In fact, I regard publicly denouncing their lies as a valuable public service.

"The truth will set you free".
Ireland has been (temporarily?) freed from a FF led Government.
The truth may just ensure that FF get the punishment they deserve, until/if they learn that they cannot rely on spin to get them elected, but need to rely on truth, and decent policy, if they are to earn the trust of the electorate.

hallelujajordan

Permabear wrote: »

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Nor should we, unless we see some evidence that Brian Cowen broke the law.

I agree whole-heartedly with what you say here about the collective responsibility of the people who demanded more and more . . . We created a situation where in 2007 we had a choice between two groups offering pretty much the same thing.

If we are to learn from our mistakes as a country then we need to be able to recognise that our system failed us. While the government were driving us towards a cliff, the opposition were offering to take over and increase our speed. We need to have effective opposition in DE, particularly now that the govt have such a strong majority and FF need to be allowed to lead that opposition without constantly harping back to the past.

They were punished and humiliated in Election 2011... Now, for our own sakes it is time to move on. . .

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I agree whole-heartedly with what you say here about the collective responsibility of the people who demanded more and more . . .

We're going off-topic, but what about the people who didn't demand more and more ?

And if a passenger tries to get a bus driver to do 100mph, isn't it up to the bus driver - a professional getting paid to do a job - to say "no" ?

The above is more Ahern-style bull re "nobody warned us".

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If we are to learn from our mistakes as a country then we need to be able to recognise that our system failed us. While the government were driving us towards a cliff, the opposition were offering to take over and increase our speed.

Yet again, an unsubstantiated claim from an FFer that "the other crowd would have done worse". It doesn't matter what others are claiming; FF should do the right thing. The above is like a robber justifying that if he hadn't robbed the old lady, someone else would have.

I will agree that the system - and some people failed us, for example the fact that there was no requirement for FF to act on the evolving bank crisis long before the Sept night, the fact that two incompetent idiots could make a call that night without having to protect the country, the fact that a corrupt and incompetent government could brazen it out in office for 2 years, the fact that known con-men like Ahern & Lowry were (a) voted for and (b) allowed to be in Government.

The system has also failed us in that the stupid, expensive and pointless tribunals cannot jail the likes of Lowry & Ahern.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

We need to have effective opposition in DE, particularly now that the govt have such a strong majority and FF need to be allowed to lead that opposition without constantly harping back to the past.

If and when they acknowledge and learn from their mistakes without trying to rewrite history or con people some more, then we'll consider that.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

They were punished and humiliated in Election 2011... Now, for our own sakes it is time to move on. . .

Incorrect. If there are no proper investigation and convictions and changes, then there is no disincentive for future FF governments to repeat the process.

And what "punishment" are you talking about ? Swanning off into the sunset will €600,000 per annum pensions ? Getting to spout propaganda and lies on radio chat shows ?

Feckin' hell - at that rate I'll consider abandoning my principles and destroying an economy too!

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're going off-topic, but what about the people who didn't demand more and more ?

And if a passenger tries to get a bus driver to do 100mph, isn't it up to the bus driver - a professional getting paid to do a job - to say "no" ?

The above is more Ahern-style bull re "nobody warned us".

No it isn't .. I am not suggesting that no-one warned Fianna Fail. I am not suggesting that FF didn't fail in their responsibility to drive the bus . . I am suggesting that the passangers need to take some of the responsibility for not demanding that they do . .

Yet again, an unsubstantiated claim from an FFer that "the other crowd would have done worse". It doesn't matter what others are claiming; FF should do the right thing. The above is like a robber justifying that if he hadn't robbed the old lady, someone else would have.

Gimme a break Liam . . I am not trying to defend FF's failures, nor am I even suggesting that 'the others would have done worse. FF failed. . I accept that. . . However, if we are to learn from our mistakes we have to recognise that our opposition failed us too . . I am not saying that we would be in the same place under a FG led government. That is speculation. I am saying that FG failed to offer a credible alternative to the FF policies that the country was demanding at the time. That is a matter of record, a matter of fact. As we move forward under a FG led government we need to have a credible opposition who will challenge the government. Like it or not, the electorate has chosen FF to lead that opposition.

Liam Byrne wrote:

The system has also failed us in that the stupid, expensive and pointless tribunals cannot jail the likes of Lowry & Ahern.

Tribunals cannot jail anyone but they can refer matters to the DPP where they believe laws have been broken. The DPP can then decide what to do . . I fully support this situation. Whether we like what FF have done or not, it will demean our society if we start putting people in jail who have not broken any laws . . .

FG now have the power to tighten these laws and ensure that this kind of thing cannot happen again . . Let's see if they do ..

Liam Byrne wrote:

If and when they acknowledge and learn from their mistakes without trying to rewrite history or con people some more, then we'll consider that.

Back on Topic . . Mary O'Rourke is not trying to con anyone or rewrite history in this interview. . . nor is she lying to anyone as you claimed earlier . . . she is putting forward an opinion, which she has every right to do. I don't agree with her and I know you don't but your accusations are a bit silly.

Scofflaw

Liam, don't just dismiss posters you're arguing with as "FFers". Whether they've indicated support for Fiana Fáil or not, deal with the argument rather than attacking the poster.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

Absolutely no attack intended - just stating the facts in the same way as if anyone who had repeatedly declared themselves to be a Fine Gael supporter just "loaning" Labour their votes would be a "self-declared FGer".

While I personally would be highly insulted if someone called me an FFer, that's simply because they disgust me and it's also false; I genuinely don't see how an actual FF member could be.

I have also been called an FGer elsewhere on boards, which I have corrected, but have taken no insult from.

Permabear

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Liam Byrne

Permabear wrote: »

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If the powers-that-be genuinely look into this, then fair enough; and this is part of the reason we needed FF out, because they wouldn't do that in a fit.

The current system is dire, though; absolutely no comeback on a disastrous decision (in fact, a disastrous "zero-regulation" policy) that crippled the country and that those of us who had absolutely no hand, act or part in have to foot the bill.

It's the equivalent of "diplomatic immunity" applying in a murder.

I agree that due process is required, but we need due process to at least be started - and completed - and quickly, so that the country can get back on its feet knowing that those responsible are dealt with and that it won't happen again.

We definitely don't need the likes of O'Rourke pretending that there's no due process required, or people whose policies FF seem to suit pretending that we should forget about the past and simply "move on".

If I'm going to be robbed blind to pay the bill of corrupt banks, I'll consider it - only for the good of my country - and ONLY when I'm sure those responsible are - if not jailed - on minimum wage with zero pensions and perks.

Being voted out and swanning off with more money than I'll see in my lifetime is NOT right; and we need to see some sort of justice and fairness before "buying in" to the solution.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The current system is dire, though; absolutely no comeback on a disastrous decision (in fact, a disastrous "zero-regulation" policy) that crippled the country and that those of us who had absolutely no hand, act or part in have to foot the bill.

It's the equivalent of "diplomatic immunity" applying in a murder.

Of course there is a come back . . FG could decide to default in the morning and renege on that debt which they consider not sovereign . . However, worth noting at this point that they supported the decision which you describe as 'disastrous' .. Also, the diplomatic immunity analogy is nonsense. Murder is a crime. Making poor economic decisions is not (and I doubt the FG government will do anything to change that!)

Liam Byrne wrote:

We definitely don't need the likes of O'Rourke pretending that there's no due process required, or people whose policies FF seem to suit pretending that we should forget about the past and simply "move on".

I disagree . . If we are to survive we have to move on. As an opposition party FF will have to be part of that 'moving on' . . . If we deny them the right to act as an opposition should because of the sins of their past then we will deny ourselves an effective opposition . . and we know where that got us !

Liam Byrne wrote:

If I'm going to be robbed blind to pay the bill of corrupt banks, I'll consider it - only for the good of my country - and ONLY when I'm sure those responsible are - if not jailed - on minimum wage with zero pensions and perks.

I presume the fact that you have voted FG means that you are going a step further than considering it since they are pretty much continuing the FF banking policies. . .

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Of course there is a come back . . FG could decide to default in the morning and renege on that debt which they consider not sovereign . . However, worth noting at this point that they supported the decision which you describe as 'disastrous' .. Also, the diplomatic immunity analogy is nonsense. Murder is a crime. Making poor economic decisions is not (and I doubt the FG government will do anything to change that!)

Do you SERIOUSLY consider FF's decisions merely "poor" ?

And for the last time, FG did not support a blanket, all-encompassing guarantee!

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I disagree . . If we are to survive we have to move on. As an opposition party FF will have to be part of that 'moving on' . . . If we deny them the right to act as an opposition should because of the sins of their past then we will deny ourselves an effective opposition . . and we know where that got us !

Again, turning the focus on FG while letting FF off the hook - it's almost laughable! How can a party that doesn't understand what's good for the country be an "effective opposition" ? If there were laws being brought in to prevent the likes of Ahern & Callely doing what they do best, do you think FF's "opposition" to those would be "effective" ? Do you think it would be in the interests of the country ?

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I presume the fact that you have voted FG means that you are going a step further than considering it since they are pretty much continuing the FF banking policies. . .

Do they have a choice at this stage ? There appears to be no way of separating ourselves from the fallacy that banking debt is OUR debt. If there is, I am hoping that FG will find it - at least there's a chance that they will look for it, whereas FF showed no interest in doing so.

In addition, FF were happy to let bankrupt banks pay fortunes in pensions and bonuses to those who led the banks - and, because of FF's choices, us - into this mess.

An "effective opposition" is one that works in the best interests of the country; FF have clearly shown that they have no interest in this area, and they do not have any "rights" in this regard. Would you argue that an abusive partner still has "rights" in terms of a marraige ?

Will FG & Labour do what they managed before, and clean up FF's mess ? I honestly don't know.....I'm not that optimistic given the size of the mess, but I can only hope that they will manage to improve matters somewhat.....something there was no hope of FF doing.