Legality of Carrying Alcohol on Street

johnmcdnl

Under my understanding if a person is carrying alochol in a bag and the alcohol is unopened the person isn't breaking any laws?? is this correct??

I'm over the legal age to drink and ran into problems with guards yesterday because I was after buying a bottle of wine early in the evening in town and was on my way to the bus to get a bus home to get ready to go out later that evening... I was carrying the wine in a brown paper bag when a member of the gardai walked past me and basically pulled the bottle of wine out of my hand and said I can't drink on the street... I tried to follow the guard and tell him that it wasn't open and that I was going home but the guard turned round and basically said that it's paddy's day and what do i expect... he then started to be threatening and I was afraid to continue to argue in case he tried to do me for being drunk and disorderly or something to that degree despite me being completely sober at the time..

I didn't raise my voice or act threatening or anything at any point and tried to remain civil throughout the encounter...

I'm just basically wondering does this guard have any right to confiscate the bottle of wine of me without giving any real reason..... and is there anything I can do about it... it's not about the value of the wine but the sheer principal as I don't think that I was doing anything wrong from my point of view...

It was just highly frustrating for me and I'd just like someone to clarify the law for me

not even wrong

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0017/sec0018.html#id1215181416.36

“ ‘bottle or container’ means a bottle or container irrespective of whether—


(a) the bottle or container is opened or unopened, and


(b) any or all of the contents of the bottle or container have been or are being consumed,

It refers to Section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act 1994 which says the Gardai can confiscate booze on the street, but only from people who are drunk and/or disorderly. So whether the bottle was open or unopened makes no difference, but your behaviour and mental state does.

So yeah, it does seem that you are entitled to feel hard done by. Did you get the guard's number by any chance?

MinnyMinor

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Under my understanding if a person is carrying alochol in a bag and the alcohol is unopened the person isn't breaking any laws?? is this correct??

I'm over the legal age to drink and ran into problems with guards yesterday because I was after buying a bottle of wine early in the evening in town and was on my way to the bus to get a bus home to get ready to go out later that evening... I was carrying the wine in a brown paper bag when a member of the gardai walked past me and basically pulled the bottle of wine out of my hand and said I can't drink on the street... I tried to follow the guard and tell him that it wasn't open and that I was going home but the guard turned round and basically said that it's paddy's day and what do i expect... he then started to be threatening and I was afraid to continue to argue in case he tried to do me for being drunk and disorderly or something to that degree despite me being completely sober at the time..

I didn't raise my voice or act threatening or anything at any point and tried to remain civil throughout the encounter...

I'm just basically wondering does this guard have any right to confiscate the bottle of wine of me without giving any real reason..... and is there anything I can do about it... it's not about the value of the wine but the sheer principal as I don't think that I was doing anything wrong from my point of view...

It was just highly frustrating for me and I'd just like someone to clarify the law for me

complain to super and ombudsman if necessary

I would question if he could pull the bottle from you without verbal interaction as you seem to say. sounds like a bit of a bully to me

johnmcdnl

thanks for the replies guys and yes I did take the guards number

if I was to send a report to the garda ombudsman what could I expect to happen... Would there be much follow up stuff for me to do.. and probably most importantly would I find out what actually happened and whether the guard got a slap on the wrist or anything from it...

I would just like to follow this out of principals as it was clear that the guard just put a stereotype on me when he seen a young lad with drink on paddy's day..

Laisurg

He was just being a prick for no reason whatsoever, maybe he fancied a nice Chardonnay while on the job :P

Virtually no point following it up though because nothing will be said to him.

dermot_sheehan

s. 19 of the 2008 act allows the guards to seize it even if you havent committed an offence under s. 4 of the 1994 public order act (intoxicated in public)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0017/print.html#sec19

8A.— (1) This section applies where a member of the Garda Síochána believes with reasonable cause that—

(a) a person is in a relevant place alone or accompanied by other persons,

(b) a bottle or container which contains an intoxicating substance is in the possession of the relevant person, and

(c) the relevant person is acting in that place, or the relevant person and some or all of the accompanying persons are acting in that place, in a manner that—

(i) gives rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace, or

(ii) is causing, or gives rise to a reasonable apprehension is likely to cause, annoyance and nuisance to another person or persons or interference with that other person’s or persons’ peaceful possession and enjoyment by that other person or persons of his or her, or their, as the case may be, property.

(2) Where this section applies, the member may—

(a) seek an explanation from the relevant person as to all or any of the matters to which the relevant belief relates, and

(b) do one or more of the following, if the relevant person fails or refuses to give such an explanation or if such an explanation is given, and in either case the member remains of the relevant belief:

(i) request the relevant person to immediately give the bottle or container to the member (or to another member of the Garda Síochána accompanying the member) and at the same time as the request is made give to the relevant person a warning in ordinary language that a failure or refusal to comply with the request may lead to the seizure of the bottle or container or to his or her arrest or to both (or words to the like effect);

(ii) if the relevant person fails or refuses to comply with the request, seize, detain and remove, without warrant, the bottle or container with the use, if necessary, of such force as is reasonable in the circumstances;

(iii) direct the relevant person and, if appropriate, some or all of the accompanying persons, to desist from acting in the manner referred to in paragraph (c) of subsection (1);

(iv) direct the relevant person and, if appropriate, some or all of the accompanying persons, to leave immediately the place in a peaceable or orderly manner;

(v) request the relevant person to provide the member with his or her name and address.

(3) Where—

(a) a person fails or refuses to comply with a request made by the member under subparagraph (i) or (v) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2),

(b) a person fails or refuses to comply with a direction given by the member under subparagraph (iii) or (iv) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2), or

(c) the member has reasonable grounds for believing that the name or address provided to the member, in compliance with a request made by the member under subparagraph (v) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2), is false or misleading,

the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(4) A person who—

(a) fails or refuses to comply with a request made by the member under subparagraph (i) or (v) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2), or

(b) in purported compliance with a request made by the member under subparagraph (v) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2), provides to the member a name or address which is false or misleading,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €500.

(5) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by the member under subparagraph (iii) or (iv) of paragraph (b) of subsection (2).

(6) A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (5) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,000.

(7) Where the member or another member of the Garda Síochána has been given, or has seized, detained and removed, a bottle or container pursuant to this section, the member shall—

(a) dispose of the bottle or container in such manner as he or she considers appropriate, and

(b) make and retain, or cause to be made and retained, a record in writing of the manner, date and place of such disposal.

(8) Nothing in this section shall prejudice the operation of the other provisions of this Act or of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 2003 .

(9) In this section—

‘ bottle or container ’ means a bottle or container irrespective of whether—

(a) the bottle or container is opened or unopened, and

(b) any or all of the contents of the bottle or container have been or are being consumed,

and includes the contents of the bottle or container;

‘ relevant belief ’, in relation to a member of the Garda Síochána, means the belief referred to in subsection (1) of the member;

‘ relevant person ’ means the person first-mentioned in paragraph (a) of subsection (1);

‘ relevant place ’ means a place other than a place used as a private dwelling.

johnmcdnl

I've read through that and it seems to basically say that if the guard thinks I'm going to cause problems if I was to drink the alcohol he can just confiscate it to prevent me getting drunk and maybe causing problems later on....

I know that very very little could ever come out of trying to report it or anything but it's just so frustrating to know that once your a young lad your going to get this sort of action taken anytime your seen with alcohol...

meanwhile as I walked to busaras on friday evening I walked past a group of skangers and drinking openly on talbot street without a worry of being caught or stopped by any guards.... good to see how the law works in Ireland at it's best but anyways - nothing I can do I suppose

thanks for the info though guys -I was thinking there was very little that could be done about it and it was really a long shot that I might be actually be able to do something about it

blackcoat

If you feel hard done by I suggest you write a letter to the Supt. explaining what occured. You could say that while you understand that public order is a massive concern for many people on St. Patricks day, the Guard involved dealt with the situation in a very unprofessional, discorteous and unsatisfactory manner. You were simply on your way home after finishing work and doing some shopping and

People always say "nothing will be done" and prefer instead to moan about the Guards. Nothing can be done if it's not reported. The decent, competent Gardai (of which there are many) don't like to see this type of unprofessionalism any more than you do.

not even wrong

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I've read through that and it seems to basically say that if the guard thinks I'm going to cause problems if I was to drink the alcohol he can just confiscate it to prevent me getting drunk and maybe causing problems later on....

No, the guard must have "reasonable cause" which is a strict legal term meaning he cannot just take your property because he feels like it or because he doesn't like the look of you, he must have a specific and logical reason to believe that you're breaking the law. Plus according to the legislation he must ask you for an explanation first, which he did not do.

I know that very very little could ever come out of trying to report it or anything

At the very least the fact that a complaint was made against him will be recorded against him, which won't be any help to his career.