Someone reversed into me at traffic lights!

Gadgie

Earlier this evening I was stopped at traffic lights when someone reversed out of a parking space into the side of my car. I could see them coming, but there was nothing I could do to stop them.

The other party initially acknowledged that they'd hit me, but were disputing that they'd done any damage. I called the Gardai and they came down, and now I believe that the other person is saying that they didn't even hit me at all!

The passenger side door is slightly dented, and I took pictures of my car and the back of theirs with a disposable camera that I had in the car. I don't know how the pictures will turn out though, as the camera is past the "develop before" date. I'll take some more of mine tomorrow with my digital camera. There didn't appear to be any damage to their car.

I wasn't very impressed with the attitude of the Gardai. The woman who spoke to me was fine at first, but became dismissive later after speaking to her colleague, and told me not to bother pursuing it - even going as far as telling me there was no point in getting the other person's insurance details as they were three people in the car and they were not admitting liability (quelle surprise!). I got them anyway. Her male colleague was very condescending towards me, and he treated the other person as if they were the injured party!

I'm angry and in shock at the moment. It was the first time I've ever been in an accident (been driving for four years) and I just feel like I've been absolutely shafted. Anyone have any advice?

snickers

Gadgie wrote: »

Earlier this evening I was stopped at traffic lights when someone reversed out of a parking space into the side of my car. I could see them coming, but there was nothing I could do to stop them.

The other party initially acknowledged that they'd hit me, but were disputing that they'd done any damage. I called the Gardai and they came down, and now I believe that the other person is saying that they didn't even hit me at all!

The passenger side door is slightly dented, and I took pictures of my car and the back of theirs with a disposable camera that I had in the car. I don't know how the pictures will turn out though, as the camera is past the "develop before" date. I'll take some more of mine tomorrow with my digital camera. There didn't appear to be any damage to their car.

I wasn't very impressed with the attitude of the Gardai. The woman who spoke to me was fine at first, but became dismissive later after speaking to her colleague, and told me not to bother pursuing it - even going as far as telling me there was no point in getting the other person's insurance details as they were three people in the car and they were not admitting liability (quelle surprise!). I got them anyway. Her male colleague was very condescending towards me, and he treated the other person as if they were the injured party!

I'm angry and in shock at the moment. It was the first time I've ever been in an accident (been driving for four years) and I just feel like I've been absolutely shafted. Anyone have any advice?

Are you sure you are not leaving any vital parts of this story out was the damage really small was your car in a bad way already that cops felt like you were wasting there time i had a chap renage on paying for crash repairs before after admitting liability when it happened. Afterwards he said he tought blame was 50/50 i was furious rang my insurer who sent an assessor who could tell the damage was not my fault he told me to contact the other partys insurer and claim wich i did that night i got phonecall from guy saying he would pay out of his pocket wich he did as in most cases like this not worth going through insurance because you would have to pay the excess anyway.

Cmar-Ireland

Would it be worth checking shops etc around the area for cctv footage?

Gadgie

As I said in my original post, my passenger door was slightly dented. I won't be able to see how bad it is until daylight. I will take some pictures in the morning and upload them here if you wish.

Yes, my car has a few dents in it already (most of which were already there when I got it), but I don't think that should allow someone to make any more and get away scot free!

I don't know whether I'll end up pursuing it, I'm just looking for advice at the moment. I also want to find out whether or not the other person is now claiming that they didn't hit me at all (which is the impression I got from the Garda who spoke to me).

Gadgie

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Would it be worth checking shops etc around the area for cctv footage?

I don't think there are any shops close enough, but I'll check tomorrow. I asked the Garda who dealt with me about the street CCTV, but was told that it wasn't covering the area at the time (or words that effect).:rolleyes:

There were plenty of people around at the time, as the Theatre Royal had just let out, so someone must have saw it. I wonder if I could look for witnesses on boards?

fitzeyboy.

where did it happen? That should help your chance of finding someone who saw the accident.

Gadgie

Just outside the Theatre Royal, Waterford. A show must have just finished, as there were loads of people around at the time.

Anyway, I got impatient and went out to the car to take a picture:

I can see the Garda's point, that door has more hits than Elvis :pac:

omen80

Go to your garage and get a quote to have the door fixed. Then give this to the other party. If they don't want to know about it then just ring their insurance company and make a claim. Don't let it drag on. If what you're saying is true then they are totally at fault and should cough up to have the door fixed.
You may also want to look into getting some cctv footage from any shops around.

holuc

RoverJames wrote: »

I can see the Garda's point, that door has more hits than Elvis :pac:

It doesn't matter if there were a few dents in it before hand. The other party hit it with their own car and put a dent it which they should fix!!

The easiest way to sort this is to get a quote looks like it shouldn't be any less than bout 600-700e, then tell them they can either pay out of their own pocket or go thru insurance.

Had something similiar a few months ago. A fella reversed into our car when d gf was driving. He gave his mobile no but wouldn't give insurance details and left!! Gf rang me i told her go get 2 quotes. I rang him with the quotes (approx 300e). He told all he would pay was 100e as it was an old car. I told him if didnt have the money the next morn i would report him to the guards for no insurance (which i tink he didnt have, and she got his reg... clever girl!!;)). Had the money at 8.30 the next morn!!

Mr Benevolent

Uh OP, why did you call the Gardai at all? They're only supposed to come out if there's been an injury. You were wasting their time.

Doom

Contact the others insurance company immediately, if they wanna play hard ball so should you

MagicSean

You will have difficulty proving they caused the damage if there was already damage done to the door. You won't get a new door out of it if it wasn't in good condition to begin with.

Wile E. Coyote

Confab wrote: »

Uh OP, why did you call the Gardai at all? They're only supposed to come out if there's been an injury. You were wasting their time.

Why shouldnt she call the gardai if someone has crashed into her and damaged her property? There's no set rules on when you should and shouldn't call them for someone who has never had an accident before.

Nonoperational

The guards won't involve themselves in minor tips. They're not criminal matters. Get onto your insurance company if you want to persue it.

MagicMarker

OP, call your insurance company and let them deal with it.

/thread.

DonalK1981

Confab wrote: »

Uh OP, why did you call the Gardai at all? They're only supposed to come out if there's been an injury. You were wasting their time.

Think you wrong about that one...

MagicSean

DonalK1981 wrote: »

Think you wrong about that one...

All the gardai will do is make sure you exchange details. No need to call them unless you don't get proper details from the other party or unless an offence has been committed.

mari2222

i agree with omen80 advice above.

CiniO

gpf101 wrote: »

The guards won't involve themselves in minor tips. They're not criminal matters. Get onto your insurance company if you want to persue it.

Destroying someone's property and trying to escape liability is not a criminal matter?

If someone steals my wallet should I as well avoid contacting guards?

MagicSean

CiniO wrote: »

Destroying someone's property and trying to escape liability is not a criminal matter?

If someone steals my wallet should I as well avoid contacting guards?

Gardaí won't decide on liability in an incident like this. It will be left to the insurance companies. A criminal matter would be if the other driver refused to provide their details, if they were drunk or if they are not insured.

CiniO

k_mac wrote: »

Gardaí won't decide on liability in an incident like this. It will be left to the insurance companies. A criminal matter would be if the other driver refused to provide their details, if they were drunk or if they are not insured.

But what if each party is claiming something opposite.
How can insurance companies decide on statements from both parties, which contradict each other?
Making false statements, would go into criminal case, and I think guards should be involved here.

doctorchopper

k_mac wrote: »

Gardaí won't decide on liability in an incident like this. It will be left to the insurance companies. A criminal matter would be if the other driver refused to provide their details, if they were drunk or if they are not insured.

Exactly right, the gards were not there, they don't know what happened,there is little damage as well as previous damage. unfortunately Your insurance assessors will determine who is at fault, its a **** system and i feel sorry for you as clearly they were at fault. Report it to your insurance, see what they say, worst case they will say it didn't happen the way you claim and you get nothing or they may say yes she backed into you and cover the damage.

Gadgie

Thanks all for the advice.

I called the Gardai because the other driver wasn't being co-operative, and was claiming that they hadn't done any damage at all. I got the impression that they were not going to exchange insurance details.

There was no damage to the door before they reversed into it, bar a couple of chips in the paintwork (from people in car parks opening their doors into mine).

It was a completely avoidable accident - I had been stopped at the traffic lights for a few seconds when I saw their reversing lights come on, and they just reversed straight into me. Probably too busy yakking about the play they'd just seen ("Grumpy Old Women" - how apt!) to bother paying attention.

I'm not sure if I'll end up pursuing it, but I've contacted my insurance company and I'll take it from there.

paddydriver

Gadgie wrote: »

Just outside the Theatre Royal, Waterford. A show must have just finished, as there were loads of people around at the time.

Anyway, I got impatient and went out to the car to take a picture:

OP - did you pop that dent out? The two creases in top corners of the dent look like it was a larger dent that was popped out and thus caused the creases along the trim line. Doesn't look like a fresh dent to me..

Just an observation.

Paddy

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Destroying someone's property and trying to escape liability is not a criminal matter?

If someone steals my wallet should I as well avoid contacting guards?

The OP's property wasn't destroyed it was slightly damaged, even according to the OP. That's like someone putting a scratch on your wallet, not stealing it.
You analogy would be more accurate if you had said someone stole the OP's car.

The fact is the Gardaí do not and cannot determine liability in what is a civil case in this jurisdiction. Unless they were direct witnesses (i.e. saw it their own eyes) they cannot determine whose was at fault no more than any other passer-by to comes on scene after the event. All they can do is to get details of the cars, note some info about the scene, note each parties version of the events (which may not be accurate) and ensure both drivers were road-legal and have exchanged the necessary details.
Different countries have different laws and legal principles, that's the way it is here.

Gadgie

paddydriver wrote: »

OP - did you pop that dent out? The two creases in top corners of the dent look like it was a larger dent that was popped out and thus caused the creases along the trim line. Doesn't look like a fresh dent to me..

Nope, I didn't do anything to it - wouldn't know how. If it was "popped out", it happened naturally.

Nonoperational

CiniO wrote: »

Destroying someone's property and trying to escape liability is not a criminal matter?

If someone steals my wallet should I as well avoid contacting guards?

You should, but liability in tips like this is left to insurance companies to sort out. Guards get people to swap details and then will not make any other contribution only to advise people to let the insurance companies sort it out.

Complain all you like but in fairness you couldn't have the guards investigate every minor tip. Most of them are one persons word against the others.

The sad reality is that unless someone admits to it it is very hard to get people to pay for minor accidents.

MagicSean

CiniO wrote: »

But what if each party is claiming something opposite.
How can insurance companies decide on statements from both parties, which contradict each other?
Making false statements, would go into criminal case, and I think guards should be involved here.

The insurance companies have the same information the Gardaí would have.

Gadgie

Just to knock this point on the head - I called the Gardai because I felt the other party were being uncooperative and weren't going to exchange insurance details with me. I wasn't looking for them to establish liability.

I certainly wasn't looking for them to blatantly take sides from the get-go, and to try to dissuade me from getting the other party's insurance details, which is what happened.

Nonoperational

Yep that seems clear enough OP. You were correct in what you did in my opinion anyway. I'd do the same. No harm to call them initially.

They're attitude sounded poor but I wouldn't take any notice. The insurance companies should sort it now. The other driver may think twice about blatantly lying to their insurance company when push comes to shove.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

The OP's property wasn't destroyed it was slightly damaged, even according to the OP. That's like someone putting a scratch on your wallet, not stealing it.
You analogy would be more accurate if you had said someone stole the OP's car.

I can't agree with it.
I usually don't carry more than €100 in my wallet. If someone steals it I'll be €100 short.
If someone dents doors in my car, I'll be good couple hundred euros short, as this will be the price to fix it in the garage.

The fact is the Gardaí do not and cannot determine liability in what is a civil case in this jurisdiction. Unless they were direct witnesses (i.e. saw it their own eyes) they cannot determine whose was at fault no more than any other passer-by to comes on scene after the event. All they can do is to get details of the cars, note some info about the scene, note each parties version of the events (which may not be accurate) and ensure both drivers were road-legal and have exchanged the necessary details.
Different countries have different laws and legal principles, that's the way it is here.

Thanks for explaining.
I understand that's the way it works here, but I don't think that's the right way.

CiniO

k_mac wrote: »

The insurance companies have the same information the Gardaí would have.

Not, until someone from insurance company will come to the accident spot, and analyse details and traces.
Besides, insurance companies exist to make money. It's in their own interest not to pay out for damage. That makes them the worst authority to decide about liablity.

That's my opinion.
I already understand, that's the sadly way it works here.

MagicSean

CiniO wrote: »

Not, until someone from insurance company will come to the accident spot, and analyse details and traces.
Besides, insurance companies exist to make money. It's in their own interest not to pay out for damage. That makes them the worst authority to decide about liablity.

That's my opinion.
I already understand, that's the sadly way it works here.

Are you honestly suggesting that a full criminal investigation take place for every minor tip that happens? Have you any idea how often people crash?

CiniO

k_mac wrote: »

Are you honestly suggesting that a full criminal investigation take place for every minor tip that happens? Have you any idea how often people crash?

I never suggested that full criminal investigation should take place for every minor tip.

Maybe I'll just show an example from the country which I come from (Poland).

If there is a crash (no matter how small) you always can call the police to come over.
Obviously if someone is injured or killed - you have to call them, but even if it's a very minor tip, you still are entitled to do it.
People usually don't, if it's some small parking fender-bender, but if it's something more serious, or it's unknown who was at fault, eventually both parties have different stories what happened, you are absolutely OK to call the police, and they will come to the spot. You might need to wait though. Sometimes just few minutes, sometimes it might be few hours. They usually check if both drivers are sober, take statement from drivers, investigate the damage to the vehicles, and check all the evidence like tyre traces, broken glass on the road, etc... All this usually don't last more than 15 minutes. Then they make report, which states who was at fault, so the driver who was right can use this report to claim from other party insurance company.

Obviously is vast majority of cases there is no need to call the police, as both parties agree what happened, how it happened, and whose fault was it, so they can write a statement themselves, sign it and go to insurance company with it.

But if you need police assistance, you are entitled to get it.
I think that's more reasonable than the way it works here.

cojomo2

Gadgie wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'll end up pursuing it, but I've contacted my insurance company and I'll take it from there.

Hi OP,

Please make sure you pursue this to the end. Not just so you get the cash to fix the damage, but to teach muppets like the one that hit you they cant simply wash their hands of liability by lying through their teeth. Scum.:mad:

Gadgie

Gadgie wrote: »

Gadgie wrote: »

There was no damage to the door before they reversed into it, bar a couple of chips in the paintwork (from people in car parks opening their doors into mine)..

That's complete and utter horsesh1t
That picture does in no way agree with your claim that the door was fine other than some chips to the paintwork. If you play that card with the insurers you'll get sweet f all out of them.

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

That's complete and utter horsesh1t
That picture does in no way agree with your claim that the door was fine other than some chips to the paintwork. If you play that card with the insurers you'll get sweet f all out of them.

Gadgie

RoverJames wrote: »

That's complete and utter horsesh1t
That picture does in no way agree with your claim that the door was fine other than some chips to the paintwork. If you play that card with the insurers you'll get sweet f all out of them.

Oh really? Perhaps you'd like to point out the evidence of pre-existing damage, oh wise one.

MagicSean

Gadgie wrote: »

Oh really? Perhaps you'd like to point out the evidence of pre-existing damage, oh wise one.

Gadgie wrote: »

Yes, my car has a few dents in it already (most of which were already there when I got it)

Yes that should be hard

Gadgie

k_mac wrote: »

Yes that should be hard

Gadgie wrote: »

There was no damage to the door before they reversed into it, bar a couple of chips in the paintwork (from people in car parks opening their doors into mine).

Car != door.

MarkR

Well, there is two scrapes. And an impact. In two places. So unless the guy that hit you was out of robot wars, there seems to be more then one sign of damage.

keithclancy

k_mac wrote: »

Yes that should be hard

Nice one .. I guess everyone on this thread will pick away now at the OP until it gets to the point he should pay them money for reversing into the side of his car while he was stopped in traffic.


This place is bonkers.

I wouldn't be arsed, would just contact insurance, let them deal with it. End of the day he was stopped and unless theres invisible gremlins around the place I cant see who else caused the damage.

Irish system is stupid imho, every other Country you have an interview with the cops, they give their assessment based on the information. Otherwise its he said this etc .. insurance companies pay out even if you weren't in the wrong and jack up your insurance.

Gadgie

MarkR wrote: »

Well, there is two scrapes. And an impact. In two places. So unless the guy that hit you was out of robot wars, there seems to be more then one sign of damage.

Having had the opportunity to inspect the damage in the light of day (and not just basing my opinion on a low-resolution photo taken at night), it appears to me that the two dents were caused when the car door "popped back" naturally from the original indentation.

The lower scrape isn't really a scrape at all, but squashed dirt that was on the door. The bigger scrape above looks like it was caused by the edge of the number plate.

But whatever, I'll be getting a garage to check it out anyway.

Gadgie

keithclancy wrote: »

Nice one .. I guess everyone on this thread will pick away now at the OP until it gets to the point he should pay them money for reversing into the side of his car while he was stopped in traffic.

This place is bonkers.

Thanks for the support! Yes, it appears that some people think that unless you keep your car in immaculate condition at all times it's OK for others to damage it with impunity...!

Having slept on it and taken a look at the damage today, I've decided that I'm gonna take it as far as I can. Even if I don't end up winning, I hope to at least inconvenience the old bag so much that she might think twice about checking her mirror before deciding to reverse out onto a public thoroughfare!

glic71rods46t0

Gadgie wrote: »

Thanks for the support! Yes, it appears that some people think that unless you keep your car in immaculate condition at all times it's OK for others to damage it with impunity...!

Having slept on it and taken a look at the damage today, I've decided that I'm gonna take it as far as I can. Even if I don't end up winning, I hope to at least inconvenience the old bag so much that she might think twice about checking her mirror before deciding to reverse out onto a public thoroughfare!

You were perfectly right to call the gardai. At the end of the day a collision occured on a public road which was caused either deliberately or through carelessness. If deliberately can be rules out then that leaves careless driving which is a garda matter.
Op - call into the garda station and ask to speak to the sargent in charge. Make it clear that you are very concerned that the "old bag" could have reversed into a pedestrian, childs buggy, etc.
Then tell the sargent that you were unhappy with the attitude of the gardai who attended the scene and that you are not letting the matter rest.
I'm fairly sure that the attitude will change and greater efforts will be made by the gardai to ascertain the facts

wellbutty

Would you have been covered by this webcam?

Gadgie

wellbutty wrote: »

Would you have been covered by this webcam?

Unfortunately not. I checked that last night when I got home. Our cars would have been just out of shot on the right hand side. Thanks for the suggestion anyway!

I might ask the Waterford Crystal showroom if they have CCTV that looks out onto the street. Could be something on that.

Gadgie

Gadgie wrote: »

Having had the opportunity to inspect the damage in the light of day (and not just basing my opinion on a low-resolution photo taken at night), it appears to me that the two dents were caused when the car door "popped back" naturally from the original indentation.

The lower scrape isn't really a scrape at all, but squashed dirt that was on the door. The bigger scrape above looks like it was caused by the edge of the number plate.

But whatever, I'll be getting a garage to check it out anyway.

What make and model car was it that backed into you?

Gadgie

RoverJames wrote: »

What make and model car was it that backed into you?

A 2006 Lexus IS220D.

kippy

How old is your car?