Another service 1108

SRB

Possibly been there for ages, but I've just done a re-scan and noticed it, showing same test pattern as the Temporary channel.
(Apologies All, if it's been mentioned before.)

The Cush

Discussed in a couple of thread since early in the week e.g. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71194619#post71194619

liamtech

not picking it up myself - three rock here, is channel 54 like the rest

Sam Russell

liamtech wrote: »

not picking it up myself - three rock here, is channel 54 like the rest

Yes, it is on 54. Your TV is not picking it up due to some incompatibility.

liamtech

i Have two TVs in the house, and neither is picking up this service - I have done four scans two on each -

Philips 32pfl5604H
-MHEG5 (WHEN SET TO UK)
-FULLY MPEG4 HD Compatable -
-Fully Digital Aertel
-Full CHannel line up and EPG
&

Samsung LE32C450
-MHEG5 (set as native ireland configuration)
-FULLY MPEG4 HD Compatible -
-Fully Digital Aertel
-Full Channels line up and EPG

I realize they are not certified but i am really shocked that i cant pick them up at all - what could this be - could it be an aerial problem or signal issue? (Somehow i doubt it)

Can you please confirm that they are on the same MUX as the others and coming from all transmitters -

My scan reveals the following -

RTE1
RTE2
TV3
TG4
RTE News Now
3e
TEMP CHANNEL (Previously showing RTE2 SD, now a test card)
10 Radio stations

17 channels in all, and thats on both the TV's - i realize they are not saorview certified, but i was assured at least in the case of the samsung that it was compatable

Besides which i thought the MUX was full with 7 TV stations(one being HD) and 10 radio stations - my belief was that RTE2SD EMP will vanish shortly and be replaced with RTE1+1 time sharing from 7PM with RTE JUINIOR

watty

It could be that TVs are "not meant" to pick it up.

Sam Russell

The channel is broadcast with a zero length name. Perhaps your TV cannot beleive any broadcaster could be daft enough to broadcast without a name and has ignored it. They are all on the one mux, and as has been said before, the one signal in assembled in Donneybrook and sent out from there to all transmitters.

Your TV is not completely compatible. The new channel will probably be RTE 1 + 1, so you wont miss anything, unless you already have, that is.:)

watty

Zero length names are not valid. So they are doing that so that mostly it won't show up on "Compatible" or Any sets.

liamtech

Is it truly a separate station stream - Thats what im trying to work out - call me a fool but until 3 hours ago i believed the following:

MUX1

AV STREAM1: RTE1
AV STREAM2: RTE2 HD
AV STREAM3: TV3
AV STREAM4: TG4
AV STREAM5: 3e
AV STREAM6: RTE NEWS NOW

---

RTEjr 11am-7pm
AV STREAM7: RTE2 SD (to be replaced by)<

---

RTE1+1 7pm-11am

10 Radio Audio streams/stations

And thats all folks! MUX 1 FULL (Or pretty much full)

So is this an AV STREAM8?

Or as i am starting to think from reading the descriptions on boards, is it the same stream as number 7 - and perhaps merely the EPG programing location of 1+1 or RTEjr - i.e. not a new station at all

I didnt think there would be an AV STREAM8 on MUX 1:

Again guys i hope ive been clear in my post - i dont want to cause confusion

SRB

The Cush wrote: »

Discussed in a couple of thread since early in the week e.g. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71194619#post71194619

Opps - just back from hols, did a quick scan of recent posts and didn't spot that.

SRB

Nice to see the silver BT Vision boxes are storing the RTE NL Channels again, just re-scanned the father in laws.

watty

I'll keep the BT vision on the Black list, being a Hybrid payTV VOD box for UK, Irish compatibilty will not be on their priority. I forget. Is the Silver the Win CE version and Black the Motorola Linux version?

The Cush

liamtech wrote: »

And thats all folks! MUX 1 FULL (Or pretty much full)

So is this an AV STREAM8?

Or as i am starting to think from reading the descriptions on boards, is it the same stream as number 7 - and perhaps merely the EPG programing location of 1+1 or RTEjr - i.e. not a new station at all

I didnt think there would be an AV STREAM8 on MUX 1:

Again guys i hope ive been clear in my post - i dont want to cause confusion

The Temporary RTÉ 2 SD channel doesn't cease until 18th April. Maybe they'll start the RTEjr/RTE1+1 channel before that date? The two streams sharing the available approx 2.5 Mbps until then? The Temp channel isn't using all the available capacity anyway.

liamtech

Is this new service a fully independent stream, or is it simply pointing at the same audio/video stream as Temporary RTE2 SD? can anyone actually concretely answer this question - and if it is an independent stream, what is the current layout of MUX1 - i mean it was full last time i checked, and the layout was as i stated in a previous post - 7 Audio Video streams (6 channels and 2 additional channels time sharing, or so it will be in may) and 10 purely audio streams, assorted EPG, TELETEXT info and that's it FULL!

I have a feeling which im trying to confirm that this new service/station is just like BBC 3 and CBBC on the satellite - same VIDEO STREAM, time shared at different times of the day (last i checked this was the case,)

The Cush

liamtech wrote: »

Is this new service a fully independent stream, or is it simply pointing at the same audio/video stream as Temporary RTE2 SD? can anyone actually concretely answer this question - and if it is an independent stream, what is the current layout of MUX1 - i mean it was full last time i checked, and the layout was as i stated in a previous post - 7 Audio Video streams (6 channels and 2 additional channels time sharing, or so it will be in may) and 10 purely audio streams, assorted EPG, TELETEXT info and that's it FULL!

I have a feeling which im trying to confirm that this new service/station is just like BBC 3 and CBBC on the satellite - same VIDEO STREAM, time shared at different times of the day (last i checked this was the case,)

I'm unable to check the data but the Temp channel is using a lower bitrate than is available based on previous posts, maybe 1-1.2 Mbps of the approx 2.5 Mbps available. The new stream may be using the remainder until the 18th April?

Maybe someone could check and post the multiplex data and put us out of our misery ?

Sam Russell

I think that on 18th of April, the two channel will become RTE jr and RTE 1+ 1.

Have they go a stat mux up and running?

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that on 18th of April, the two channel will become RTE jr and RTE 1+ 1.

Have they go a stat mux up and running?

That would be the guess right now, two low bitrate streams become the new RTÉjr/RTÉ1+1 channel.

Regarding Stat. Muxing, this is what RTÉ said in Nov

RTÉ plans to use statistical multiplexing. As part of a statistical multiplexed pool the
HD service will use an average bit rate of c. 6.3 Mbps, RTÉ News Now will use an
average bit rate of c. 2.2 Mbps, RTÉjr and RTÉ Plus will share the same spectrum,
requiring an average bit rate of c. 2.2 Mbps and RTÉ Aertel Digital will require 1.0
Mbps of capacity.

...

Capacity Required for HD and SD Services

The following technical specifications are being proposed by RTÉNL and are subject to
contract negotiations with broadcasters.

Statistical multiplexing will be used for all video services, audio and data services are fixed bit
rate. It is planned to use the following bit rates as part of a statistical multiplexed pool.

High Definition Video (HD)
1 Minimum of 2.0 Mbps
2 Maximum of 9.0 Mbps
3 Weighting 90%
4 Resolution 1440 x 1080i
5 Expected average bit rate 6.0 Mbps

Standard Definition Video (SD)
• Minimum of 1.0 Mbps
• Maximum of 8.0 Mbps
• Weighting 90%
• Resolution 544 x 576
• Expected average bit rate 2.0 Mbps

Audio HD and/or SD
• Main program audio 192 kbps (stereo)
• Secondary program audio 96 kbps (mono), if required.
• Access services 96 kbps (mono), if required.

In total, therefore, including audio and video c. 6.3 Mbps will be required for a HD service, and c.
2.3 Mbps for a SD service. The requirement can vary and capacity will be dynamically allocated
depending on the type of programming being transmitted at any particular time.

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

Is this new service a fully independent stream, or is it simply pointing at the same audio/video stream as Temporary RTE2 SD? can anyone actually concretely answer this question

It's pointing to the same streams as the temporary channel, same VPID and APID.

I wouldn't be worried if your TV can't pick up the new channel, they have it with a zero length name for a reason and this will be changed before whatever channel is launched on it - if they didn't it would just be stupid. I think I even read that one of the Saorview certified Walkers isn't picking it up.

The Cush

Karsini wrote: »

It's pointing to the same streams as the temporary channel, same VPID and APID.

I wouldn't be worried if your TV can't pick up the new channel, they have it with a zero length name for a reason and this will be changed before whatever channel is launched on it - if they didn't it would just be stupid. I think I even read that one of the Saorview certified Walkers isn't picking it up.

Thanks for the info Karsini.

The Walker TV sees it on the scan but doesn't display it according to this post

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I did a scan on my Walker tv and it said 18 channels altogether but does not show the eight tv channel. I also did a scan on my Panasonic tv and this shows 17 channels not picking up the eight channel at all.

liamtech

Karsini wrote: »

It's pointing to the same streams as the temporary channel, same VPID and APID.

I wouldn't be worried if your TV can't pick up the new channel, they have it with a zero length name for a reason and this will be changed before whatever channel is launched on it - if they didn't it would just be stupid. I think I even read that one of the Saorview certified Walkers isn't picking it up.

If its the same VPID AND APID then its the same station as RTE2SD TEMP, so it is being picked up by everyone - its just being picked up twice by some - and that second version will be one half of RTE1+1/RTEjr

Clearly the video stream that is currently RTE2SD will cease and be replaced by two stations sharing the same stream - RTEjr 11AM-7PM and RTE1+1 7PM to 11AM - i would say this new "Station" is merely a place where one of the stations EPG location will be - RTE2TEMP may transform into RTEjr - then at seven you switch over to RTE1+1 - but basically its the same channel - same system as BBC3 and CBBC - on a freesat box, CBBC "stops broadcasting" at 7PM - but on a non-freesat FTA box, if you switch to CBBC at half seven you get BBC3 -

If i was to hazard a guess id say certified boxes and fully compatible alternatives will have two separate stations tuned, but many purely basic MPEG4HD units will just have one station RTE1+1/RTEjr - depending on what time your watching -

That may sound like massive speculating or complication but it fits the bill - The MUX is full now - its just the contents of one of the streams that will change in may -

It's certainly plausible.

Just to show I'm not talking a load of bull...

liamtech

Karsini wrote: »

It's certainly plausible.

Just to show I'm not talking a load of bull...

Fair play man - that pretty much proves it!

SRB

Now it's full, be interesting to see if the second mux re-appears.

The Cush

SRB wrote: »

Now it's full, be interesting to see if the second mux re-appears.

It has to by the 1st Sept as a condition of the Ministerial Decision and possibly for any new FTA content following the BAI's current consultation on the spare capacity on the PSB Muxes.

Sam Russell

I note some sets receive (or notice) this extra channel.

Is it an indication that a set is compatible with Saorview if it does receive it, or is it compatible if it does not?

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

I note some sets receive (or notice) this extra channel.

Is it an indication that a set is compatible with Saorview if it does receive it, or is it compatible if it does not?

It is not an indication of anything that we know of, RTÉNL appear to be testing an additional stream only.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

It is not an indication of anything that we know of, RTÉNL appear to be testing an additional stream only.

My question is 'Should a compatible set detect this channel with zero length name? Or should it ignore it?'

I know they are testing it, but are they testing a shared channel with the same data stream? My Freesat does not show BBC3 during its off time, but my FTA receiver does (well, it shows the kids channel).

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

My question is 'Should a compatible set detect this channel with zero length name? Or should it ignore it?

We don't know based on the posts here to date.

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

My question is 'Should a compatible set detect this channel with zero length name? Or should it ignore it?'

I think it probably doesn't matter either way.

But we don't know.

Teracom are not going to "pass" a set unless it meets the spec. But if a broadcaster does something not in the spec, two different perfectly compatible sets may behave differently.

I'm not saying RTE is doing something not in the spec, but out of spec flags, configuration etc isn't uncommon during testing phases of any systems.

FREETV

The channel doesn't show up when I do a manual scan on Channel 54 for Three Rock transmitter using the Metronic Freeview HD Zapbox but it does on my old Sagem Sky Picnic box.

Sam Russell

It does on my LG Freeview HD set, and it does on my non-Saorview STB that gets everything except it has no MHEG5.

I suppose a zero length name is outside the spec, but there was a problem with Philips sets where the name had to have an extra space to get the radios detected. Interesting, much fun in the future, I think.