who is wrong here

maskabun

Hi friends,

Yesterday I had a small incident, I was waiting in the queue for filling petrol as depicted in the attached image.

As the car ahead of me went inside I was gradually started moving futher, as soon as I pressed the accelerator the car rushed from my right hand side and moved inside the petrol station, it just happend in the fraction of second before I could realise the situation.

I believe the opposite person is wrong as he should stand behind me and wait for his turn.
But that person says that I am wrong as my right side indicator was off and he thought I stopped my car there and didn't intend to move.
My another defense is that I am not supposed to see my right hand side mirror while actually I wanted to turn left.

What's your openion here, who is wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPLqnxWYyB4

celticbest

If you were in a queue I would look for CCTV from the petrol station as proof.

maskabun

celticbest wrote: »

If you were in a queue I would look for CCTV from the petrol station as proof.

Yes that's what we are going to do, the petrol station guy is going to make a CD of the CCTV footage, now assume that the proof is in my favour, who's fault then?

If you were stationary in the bus lane then he was quite entitled to cut across you, from the diagram his route into the service station was correct, normal left hand lane into service station. It sounds like you were stationary, moved off and then hit him as you didn't see him. You should be checking all of your mirrors too not just your left one.

Now if you were moving before he cut across you it gets more complicated, but as you were going slowly I reckon you just weren't watching what you were doing.


OP has put a link to the video of events on page 6 of this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPLqnxWYyB4

Mr. Presentable

maskabun wrote: »

Hi friends,

Yesterday I had a small incident, I was waiting in the queue for filling petrol as depicted in the attached image.

As the car ahead of me went inside I was gradually started moving futher, as soon as I pressed the accelerator the car rushed from my right hand side and moved inside the petrol station, it just happend in the fraction of second before I could realise the situation.

I believe the opposite person is wrong as he should stand behind me and wait for his turn.
But that person says that I am wrong as my right side indicator was off and he thought I stopped my car there and didn't intend to move.
My another defense is that I am not supposed to see my right hand side mirror while actually I wanted to turn left.
What's your openion here, who is wrong?

You must check left and right mirrors and blindspots before moving.

Mr. Presentable

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

You must check left and right mirrors and blindspots before moving.

And straight ahead of course :pac:

Dermo

Are you allowed to queue in the bus lane?

garhjw

difficult to call without actually witnessing what happened. hopefully CCTV will help. But as RoverJames stated, observation is important and its possible you are at fault on that front.

but if you were waiting in a queue and he has cut in front then that adds to the complexity in my opinion..

maskabun

Dermo wrote: »

Are you allowed to queue in the bus lane?

the car before me in the queue was also in the bus lane so I set mine after him.

pippip

I think the other person was more in the wrong, whether the op is moving or at standstill prior to the accident, when the collision happened the other car still cut across the lane of a moving car.

Can you give a google earth view as I would like to see if any road marking exist? As its an entrance into a petrol station i would imagine there is a break in the road markings of the buslane which might validate your position in the lane.

pippip

pippip wrote: »

I think the other person was more in the wrong, whether the op is moving or at standstill prior to the accident, when the collision happened the other car still cut across the lane of a moving car.

If you think about your statement for a second
If the OP was at a standstill prior to the accident then the other car did not cut across a moving car, he cut across a stationary car who then started moving.

pippip

They were not moving off from a parked position only with the flow of traffic, that was the other cars bad assumption.

OP - was there a car behind you in the queue?

Satanta

I agree with pippip on this one I think. The OP wasnt parked, just moving in a stop start traffic. I think the guy that cut across them was in the wrong. His observation of the situation seems atrocious.

maskabun

pippip wrote: »

They were not moving off from a parked position only with the flow of traffic, that was the other cars bad assumption.

OP - was there a car behind you in the queue?

No, I was last in the queue,

here is the location
http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&aq=&sll=53.353907,-6.247573&sspn=0.001825,0.004136&ie=UTF8&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.1&split=1&filter=0&hq=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&hnear=&ll=53.353965,-6.247519&spn=0.001825,0.004136&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.354024,-6.247451&panoid=m86PdroGmBj9IvGJULFEIg&cbp=12,212.14,,0,5

Satanta

Satanta wrote: »

His observation of the situation seems atrocious.

And the OPs observation? I'm queing in a bus lane and I won't check any mirror except my left one.

maskabun

maskabun wrote: »

No, I was last in the queue,

here is the location
http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&aq=&sll=53.353907,-6.247573&sspn=0.001825,0.004136&ie=UTF8&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.1&split=1&filter=0&hq=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&hnear=&ll=53.353965,-6.247519&spn=0.001825,0.004136&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.354024,-6.247451&panoid=m86PdroGmBj9IvGJULFEIg&cbp=12,212.14,,0,5

Going forward, do not queue in a bus lane like that again

KERSPLAT!

What distance was there between you and the car infront and how long between the time the car infront moved off and you moving off?

The reason I ask is if I saw a car in a bus lane with nothing infront of it and stationary I would consider it parked. If the car you were behind was only a metre or 2 away I would consider it as traffic, very hard to tell without actual footage

Big Nasty

maskabun wrote: »

No, I was last in the queue,

here is the location
http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&aq=&sll=53.353907,-6.247573&sspn=0.001825,0.004136&ie=UTF8&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.1&split=1&filter=0&hq=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&hnear=&ll=53.353965,-6.247519&spn=0.001825,0.004136&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.354024,-6.247451&panoid=m86PdroGmBj9IvGJULFEIg&cbp=12,212.14,,0,5

You wont get any petrol in there anyhow - they're closed down!

keithclancy

If I understand this correctly you didnt pull out you moved forwards.

The person cut you off by crossing a solid white line.

They would be in the wrong in that case.

Satanta

RoverJames wrote: »

And the OPs observation? I'm queing in a bus lane and I won't check any mirror except my left one.

Yeah, they both should have been paying better attention.

fptosca

Personally, I think you are right. A car cannot cut in front of another car full stop. Although is true that you should have looked everywhere before you move on. This would have avoid the crash but it doesn't swift the guilt from the other driver to you.

KERSPLAT!

fptosca wrote: »

Personally, I think you are right. A car cannot cut in front of another car full stop. Although is true that you should have looked everywhere before you move on. This would have avoid the crash but it doesn't swift the guilt from the other driver to you.

Yes, it is that clear cut

If I thought someone was PARKED in a bus lane, just before an entrance to a petrol station, how else would I get to the petrol station? I would have to pull infront of said parked car to gain access.

fptosca

fptosca wrote: »

This would have avoid the crash but it doesn't swift the guilt from the other driver to you.

It might do actually.

To me it looks like the OP was not at all concentrating or driving responsibly
- queued in a bus lane
- didn't move off when there was room
- didn't check mirrors or road ahead when he did move off
- didn't notice a car driving into the service station taking the correct path
- slapped into that car

When the insurance lads get involved no way will the other driver be 100% responsible, not even 50/50 I reckon.

jimmyw

I don't think the OP or others should be in the bus lane, but it seems like a silly place to have a bus lane in the first place.What would happen if there was a bus coming along and a car wanted to turn in for petrol?.You should have looked in your right mirror and over your right shoulder too though.The other driver should not be so close to you either.

jimmyw

jimmyw wrote: »

I don't think the OP or others should be in the bus lane, but it seems like a silly place to have a bus lane in the first place..

There's a bus lane running along the entrance to the hotel where my gym is, it's not too bad really as long as folks don't use the bus lane approaching it or queue in the bus lane. Get's a bit awkward for us law abiding folks then.

pippip

In the original post the op says they were waiting to enter the petrol station to their left, in a queue. The other driver gives out that they didn't have their right hand indicator on. That means the other driver didn't realise they were going into the petrol station and assumed they were parked and moved off with the intention of going straight ahead.

Still a case of the other driver cutting the op off.

I can't see how it would have been better for the op to stop in the "middle lane" if there was a queue, instead of moving over to the bus lane and letting the busy traffic go bye.

KERSPLAT!

jimmyw wrote: »

I don't think the OP or others should be in the bus lane, but it seems like a silly place to have a bus lane in the first place.What would happen if there was a bus coming along and a car wanted to turn in for petrol?.You should have looked in your right mirror and over your right shoulder too though.The other driver should not be so close to you either.

So close? I hope your not going by the diagram

The other driver could have been a metre or more from the OPs car, then the OP moved off and hit the other driver. A metre, IMO, is plenty of room.

As for the bus lane, I dont see how its silly to have one there? The garage forecourt is fairly big (Ive been a few times) ands would allow for a couple of cars to Q from the other side of the pumps

keithclancy

pippip wrote: »

In the original post the op says they were waiting to enter the petrol station to their left, in a queue. The other driver gives out that they didn't have their right hand indicator on. That means the other driver didn't realise they were going into the petrol station and assumed they were parked and moved off with the intention of going straight ahead.

Still a case of the other driver cutting the op off.

I can't see how it would have been better for the op to stop in the "middle lane" if there was a queue, instead of moving over to the bus lane and letting the busy traffic go bye.

Its boards.
For some reason people here think you should get out and wave some red flags to signal people your taking off while looking 270 degrees all around you and wearing a yellow jacket.

Otherwise its your fault

KERSPLAT!

I would imagine a quick look over the OPs shoulder would have sufficed in this instance and spared the mess

maskabun

pippip wrote: »

In the original post the op says they were waiting to enter the petrol station to their left, in a queue. The other driver gives out that they didn't have their right hand indicator on. That means the other driver didn't realise they were going into the petrol station and assumed they were parked and moved off with the intention of going straight ahead.

Still a case of the other driver cutting the op off.

I can't see how it would have been better for the op to stop in the "middle lane" if there was a queue, instead of moving over to the bus lane and letting the busy traffic go bye.

guys, I just got the cctv footage from the petrol station, my left indicator was on when the other car was approaching behind me.

keithclancy

maskabun wrote: »

guys, I just got the cctv footage from the petrol station, my left indicator was on when the other car was approaching behind me.

Right then.
Get quote, give him a week to give you the money and after that go down the insurance route.

Satanta

It'll be very interesting to see how this turns out, hopefully the OP will post here how they got on. There seems to be a lot of different ideas on who would be at fault, so obviously this is something that has the potential of happening again.

My money still goes on the OP being in the right.

Noo

pippip wrote: »

In the original post the op says they were waiting to enter the petrol station to their left, in a queue. The other driver gives out that they didn't have their right hand indicator on. That means the other driver didn't realise they were going into the petrol station and assumed they were parked and moved off with the intention of going straight ahead.

Still a case of the other driver cutting the op off.

I can't see how it would have been better for the op to stop in the "middle lane" if there was a queue, instead of moving over to the bus lane and letting the busy traffic go bye.

This says it all really.

Yes the OP shouldnt be queuing in the bus lane, but the only alternative was to stay in lane and block traffic, a bus can (and lets face it, will) go around you and you are not too much of an inconvenience to general traffic flow. It would be extremely dangerous to stay in lane forcing everyone else to move into the bus lane to overtake especially if thats the direction you're intending to turn.

Yes the OP should've had their indicator on, but that shouldnt matter in this case, if the other driver assumed they were going straight ahead then they still chose to cut infront of them to get to the garage. And how many time to you see a car pulled over with the indicator still on even if they are not moving anywhere. I've a feeling the other driver would still have used the "i thought the car was parked" excuse if the indictor was on. Also they werent pulling out, why should they have their right indicator on?

Edit: Just saw you had you left indictor on, i cant see how you could be in the wrong

KERSPLAT!

maskabun wrote: »

guys, I just got the cctv footage from the petrol station, my left indicator was on when the other car was approaching behind me.

The other driver could have taken this as you stop/pulled in at the side of the road. Still not clear cut and I dont think the insurance will see it as clear cut either,

maskabun

maskabun wrote: »

guys, I just got the cctv footage from the petrol station, my left indicator was on when the other car was approaching behind me.

So you have no blame for not noticing a car approach in the correct lane to enter the service station and drive in to the station in the correct manner ?

What if it was a child? I'm serious by the way.

Let us know how it goes anyway.

firefly08

It looks like the other driver simply made a left turn from the right lane - isn't that illegal? He should have changed into the left lane, yielding to whatever hazards might be there, and then re-evaluated the situation before making another turn.

OP I'd be leaning in your favour since better observation from the other driver would have helped, whereas I'm not sure how better observation on your part would have made any difference. If you saw him coming in your right mirror, and even saw him indicating, that still wouldn't tell you he was going to cut across you. You would have had every right to assume that he was going to yield and wait his turn. If he had changed lanes in front of you and kept on driving at a higher speed than you, there would have been no problem. But he cut across you as if you were parked - his mistake.

Having said that, I'm assuming that you were already moving before he appeared in front of you. If not, then you might have a problem. Generally when you start off from a stationary position, you have to yield to everything and anything.

firefly08

firefly08 wrote: »

It looks like the other driver simply made a left turn from the right lane - isn't that illegal?

The other driver made a left turn from the left lane which is what he should be doing. The buslane should not be populated by a stationary queuing car

Noo

RoverJames wrote: »

So you have no blame for not noticing a car approach in the correct lane to enter the service station and drive in to the station in the correct manner ?

What if it was a child? I'm serious by the way.

Let us know how it goes anyway.

Because at this stage there was no queue into the garage, what if he cut infront of the OP only to be met with a line of traffic...he would be stuck in a bus lane perpendicular to the traffic of the main road, if youve to be in a bus lane for a reason like this better to be facing the right direction dont ya think.

pippip

RoverJames wrote: »

The other driver made a left turn from the left lane which is what he should be doing. The buslane should not be populated by a stationary queuing car

So would you have stayed, stationary, in the middle lane until the entrance was clear?

maskabun

firefly08 wrote: »

It looks like the other driver simply made a left turn from the right lane - isn't that illegal? He should have changed into the left lane, yielding to whatever hazards might be there, and then re-evaluated the situation before making another turn.

OP I'd be leaning in your favour since better observation from the other driver would have helped, whereas I'm not sure how better observation on your part would have made any difference. If you saw him coming in your right mirror, and even saw him indicating, that still wouldn't tell you he was going to cut across you. You would have had every right to assume that he was going to yield and wait his turn. If he had changed lanes in front of you and kept on driving at a higher speed than you, there would have been no problem. But he cut across you as if you were parked - his mistake.

Having said that, I'm assuming that you were already moving before he appeared in front of you. If not, then you might have a problem. Generally when you start off from a stationary position, you have to yield to everything and anything.

Hi firefly08,
Theres is a problem then because I started moving when he was parallel to me.

Noo

Noo wrote: »

Because at this stage there was no queue into the garage, what if he cut infront of the OP only to be met with a line of traffic...he would be stuck in a bus lane perpendicular to the traffic of the main road, if youve to be in a bus lane for a reason like this better to be facing the right direction dont ya think.

He can see before he turns in if the way is clear or not so there is no reason to be stuck

pippip wrote: »

So would you have stayed, stationary, in the middle lane until the entrance was clear?

No I woould have driven past the service station

Upload the video for us
We can then see for ourselves.

maskabun

RoverJames wrote: »

Upload the video for us
We can then see for ourselves.

It's been uploading at the moment, video is bigger in size, youtube says remaining time still 45 minutes

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

So you have no blame for not noticing a car approach in the correct lane to enter the service station and drive in to the station in the correct manner ?

What if it was a child? I'm serious by the way.

Let us know how it goes anyway.

if it was a child driving this would be a whole other thread :pac:

pippip

RoverJames wrote: »

No I woould have driven past the service station

but if you HAD to? i.e. running on fumes in that area of town

Noo

Yeah i agree thats the only way, i have one view of the scenario playing out in my head and its probably waaaaaay off.

KERSPLAT!

All the 'ifs and buts'

All will be clear soon enough... I hope

celticbest

How's the upload going OP ?

BostonB

The lane markings are wrong. They don't allow you to cross the buss lane to enter the station. It should be marked to allow you to do this, and avoid confusion, and opportunity for queue jumping.

Seems obvious that the other car saw an opportunity and dived in. Proving it will be a different story. The CCTV will be the only thing that will help, otherwise the insurance will call it 50:50 and tell you to fix your own car.

Mr. Presentable

If the OP only started moving when the other car was parallel to her, why had she a left indicator on? You must signal right when moving off from a parked position to show you wish to join the road.

While it is not cut and dried it is still apparent the OP did nothing correctly and contributed in the majority to the accident.

The other driver was into a manoeuver across a parked car that moved off unexpectedly without checking for other road users.

pippip

pippip wrote: »

but if you HAD to? i.e. running on fumes in that area of town

I would drive on, you never have to do anything in this life.