Cow attacking her calf

krazyfarmer

Have a calved heifer who will not let calf near her. Any ideas on how to convince her to be a mother?

cjpm

Try shaking dry cow minerals or nuts on the calf, might get her to start licking the calf.

vanderbadger

keep them close together anyway if you can, sooner or later something usually clicks with the cow and she should take,
have a few cows that go overboard after calving and go mad licking the calf to the extent that they keep knocking the calf..pure nuisance

krazyfarmer

Thanks Lads. Have tried the nuts on the calf. No joy there. She will kick the calf and head butt him. she pushed him through a gate this morning. have him shut behind a pallet in the same pen as her. she will let him suck in the crush.

Figerty

Another ploy that sometime has an effect is to bring the dog in.. the maternal instinct may kick in..

Or molasses...

vanderbadger

krazyfarmer wrote: »

Thanks Lads. Have tried the nuts on the calf. No joy there. She will kick the calf and head butt him. she pushed him through a gate this morning. have him shut behind a pallet in the same pen as her. she will let him suck in the crush.

have a cow, she is probably 6 or 7 years old at this stage but every year when she calves she acts like a springer, this year she nearly killed her calf, had the calf knocked out under the gate a few times, i actually had to take calf away from her initially, she was pure mad about calf but overly so, then when the calf would touch off her she would kick like she never remembered any of her other calves sucking her..anyway calf was born on monday and it was thursday morning before i got her to let the calf suck, i nearly gave up on her, in the end had to tie her legs in the crush and knock the calf and get it in under cow, once she started going though the cow just stopped kicking, in fact she let other calves suck her after so its weird how some of them carry on

Bizzum

krazyfarmer wrote: »

Have a calved heifer who will not let calf near her. Any ideas on how to convince her to be a mother?

I had in the past 2 heifers that behaved the same. As if terrified of the calf, to such an extent as they would kill the calf if allowed.
I sedated one for 3 days allowing the calf to suck and bond with her. Keep the calf safe but in view of the heifer, and keep letting the calf suck using the crush. She should come around after a few days.
I tried the dog thing too, it didn'n seem to make much differenct untill the cow came around anyway.
She might do the same next year too. Both of mine did.

Butcher Boy

would a shot of stresnell not sure of spelling do the job we gave it to sows before a great job

pakalasa

A similar thing happened me last week. Calf was about a week old. No problems up to that. I tagged the calf that morning. I usually put a spray of iodine on the pierce tip of the tag before tagging, to stop it infecting.
Cow wouldnt let the calf near her. Pucking it against a wall and everything.
Put the cow in the crush. Slide back lowest bar and rubbed cow up and down along back bone. She let calf suck & was grand after that.
Weird though, must have been the smell of the new tags and iodine.

RobinBanks

I am sure there are many ways to rome but I had this problem earlier in the year with a first calver. When she calved she ran to the other end of the stable and when i put her back up to the calf she wouldnt lick her. I milked her and poured the beastings over the calf. That done the trick - or maybe it was just a coincidence and she decided to start mothering her, I don't know but it would be worth a try.

I also heard about bringing a dog in!

krazyfarmer

Gave her Stressnel seems to be a bit more settled. Prob just going to take time to settle.
Thanks for all ideas.

blue5000

Krazyfarmer is she a limo? Try feeding her a half bucket of meal when she's in the crush, put the calf on her from behind. Have you anybody to help you? I had a couple of heifers rejecting calves last yr and just bucket/teat fed them instead.

bbam

blue5000 wrote: »

I had a couple of heifers rejecting calves last yr and just bucket/teat fed them instead.

Good advice... Danger that the cow might turn on yourself, the calf mightn't be getting enough either.. I find this type of thing very hard if your on your own which is more usual than not..
Bucket feed the calf and if the cow does the same next year I'd be putting her to the mart.

what happen

a man beside me had a whitehead cow and she killed two calves belonging to two diffent cows one year after another.he had to put whitehead cow and calf in to a field with no other cows and calves. he then got rid of her.

kay 9

Over-feeding can do it also. We have 2 cattle this year that are playing f*ck on the rest of herd pucking them when feeding and when out. One of them didn;t take her own calf either for a while:mad: Laid off the grain and bobs yer aunt.

adne

Have same prob, calf born Paddies Morn, 4 days later and she still wont let calve suck, have to pen her in corner and stand over her while calf sucks....
What happens if this goes on for the summer.. How many times a day would I need to let calve suck...

cows123

had a belgian blue heifer was taking no heed of the calf and after about two weeks she fell in love with her

blue5000

I wonder what causes it? I think it seems to happen more with 2 yr old heifers, if they were 3 yr old, and more mature at first calving would it be less of a problem?

Bizzum

blue5000 wrote: »

I wonder what causes it? I think it seems to happen more with 2 yr old heifers, if they were 3 yr old, and more mature at first calving would it be less of a problem?

Only happened us twice.
Both were strong aged heifers. At the time someone told me the dairy men see it often enough, So along with age at calving, could breed have an influence?
Could be a doctorate in it for ya Blue?

pakalasa

It's probably man's interference with nature, messing around with selective breeding and all that. A cow that rejects her calve.....well that genetic line aint going to last is it?

krazyfarmer

blue5000 wrote: »

Krazyfarmer is she a limo? Try feeding her a half bucket of meal when she's in the crush, put the calf on her from behind. Have you anybody to help you? I had a couple of heifers rejecting calves last yr and just bucket/teat fed them instead.

Sorry for slow reply was flat out claving.
She is a CHX. She is letting calf suck now i throw meal on the silage twice a day to make sure she stands. I let two other calved heifers in with her she became all protective of her calf. Last night she was letting two calves suck at one time. Maybe im not the only Krazy one about the place!

Bitten & Hisses

Had a cow last year who was too protective of her calf. Of course, the calf wouldn't suck and when I tried to intervene, she used to go mental, hence she got the road. Some of ye have probably enjoyed her in a McDonald's quarter pounder by now

adne

krazyfarmer wrote: »

Sorry for slow reply was flat out claving.
She is a CHX. She is letting calf suck now i throw meal on the silage twice a day to make sure she stands. I let two other calved heifers in with her she became all protective of her calf. Last night she was letting two calves suck at one time. Maybe im not the only Krazy one about the place!

How long should i be ensuring the calf sucks for... i am giving him 20 mins sucking both morn and evening

krazyfarmer

20 mins should be ok if he is sucking well.
I was leaving her standing in the crush while doing other jobs.

adne

krazyfarmer wrote: »

20 mins should be ok if he is sucking well.
I was leaving her standing in the crush while doing other jobs.

How long before the calf could suck on his own.... Im a week now and getting fed up...

InchicoreDude

have a cow, she is probably 6 or 7 years old at this stage but every year when she calves she acts like a springer, this year she nearly killed her calf, had the calf knocked out under the gate a few times, i actually had to take calf away from her initially, she was pure mad about calf but overly so, then when the calf would touch off her she would kick like she never remembered any of her other calves sucking her..anyway calf was born on monday and it was thursday morning before i got her to let the calf suck, i nearly gave up on her, in the end had to tie her legs in the crush and knock the calf and get it in under cow, once she started going though the cow just stopped kicking, in fact she let other calves suck her after so its weird how some of them carry on

Why would keep a cow like this for so long?

I saw one of the other posters mentioned the dog trick. This really does work, just bring the dog to the shed, have him stand at the gat looking in while you go to the calf and put the calf near the cow. The cow will be loking intently at the dog to bother with you but will instinctly want to protect the calf. Have seen this work many times with sheep and occassionally with cattle

funny man

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Why would keep a cow like this for so long?

I saw one of the other posters mentioned the dog trick. This really does work, just bring the dog to the shed, have him stand at the gat looking in while you go to the calf and put the calf near the cow. The cow will be loking intently at the dog to bother with you but will instinctly want to protect the calf. Have seen this work many times with sheep and occassionally with cattle

make sure there is a gate and a good one, this works well but it is dangerous if you are in with a cow you don't know how she will react, i'm just urging caution!

Don Juan DeMagoo

Dear lord, don't be suggesting bringing dogs near new born calves unless you know your cattle very well, as in they are well handled and won't react.
One of my saler crossbreds would go through a calf/gate/wall to get at the dog.

OP I have only had this happen once, it was a Charolais heifer.
I find that it was a sudden burst of estrogen, i seperated the calf from the cow with a barrier, but still let the cow smell the calf, after a couple of hours all had settled. Then I gradually reintroduced the calf 2 or 3 per day for sucking, all was fine and cow and calf were fine together.

If she is still giving hassle after a given period, get a replacement animal if possible or hand feed and get rid of the cow. It is just not worth going through that with her again next year.

InchicoreDude

Dear lord, don't be suggesting bringing dogs near new born calves unless you know your cattle very well, as in they are well handled and won't react.

eh, well yeah, sorry I thought this was a natural assumption and didnt need to be pointed out! To bring it further, I would also suggest the dog should be one you are in full control of (IE your own dog instead of a neighbours dog) and preferably an older dog (More predictable & knows when to get the hell out of there!). Furthermore, it helps if the cow actually knows the dog, again you should you use your own dog.

I have seen this technique work on many occassions if you are careful with it.

adne

InchicoreDude wrote: »

eh, well yeah, sorry I thought this was a natural assumption and didnt need to be pointed out! To bring it further, I would also suggest the dog should be one you are in full control of (IE your own dog instead of a neighbours dog) and preferably an older dog (More predictable & knows when to get the hell out of there!). Furthermore, it helps if the cow actually knows the dog, again you should you use your own dog.

I have seen this technique work on many occassions if you are careful with it.

Is it too late to try this trick now 8 days later.. am losing heart and going to seperate the calf at the 2 week mark, buy in another suck and feed the 2 of them on milk replacement once a day....
Put dry cow tubes into the cow and wave good bye to her.....

What best option to buy in a suck..... a FRxBB Heifer or FRxLM heifer or maybe a FRxAA Bull......

Bizzum

adne wrote: »

Is it too late to try this trick now 8 days later.. am losing heart and going to seperate the calf at the 2 week mark, buy in another suck and feed the 2 of them on milk replacement once a day....
Put dry cow tubes into the cow and wave good bye to her.....

What best option to buy in a suck..... a FRxBB Heifer or FRxLM heifer or maybe a FRxAA Bull......

Just to summarise: Your calf is a week old and the dam (a heifer?) wont stand to allow the calf suck?
How is she with the calf in the pen? Is the calf anxious to suck? Is she alone with the calf?

Looks to me like she has for whatever reason failed to bond with the calf and does not recognise it as her own, and thus treats it like an imposter.
I would think if the problem was hormonal she would have settled by now and is unlikely to settle. You never know though, We had a calf last spring that wouldn't suck, unassisted, for 10 days and then just got the taste of it and never looked back.

Re: Buying a calf. Everyone will have an opinion on what is best. A good BBX heifer calf would be the road I'd be going down.

adne

Bizzum wrote: »

Just to summarise: Your calf is a week old and the dam (a heifer?) wont stand to allow the calf suck?
How is she with the calf in the pen? Is the calf anxious to suck? Is she alone with the calf?

Looks to me like she has for whatever reason failed to bond with the calf and does not recognise it as her own, and thus treats it like an imposter.
I would think if the problem was hormonal she would have settled by now.

Its a Cow - her 6th calf, she wont stand to suck pucks and kicks calf if he trys to suck. otherwise passes absolutely no heed of calf been n pen..
She is alone with calf in a creep pen... going to put her back on slat tomorrow and take her off each time to allow calf suck

Bizzum

adne wrote: »

Its a Cow - her 6th calf, she wont stand to suck pucks and kicks calf if he trys to suck. otherwise passes absolutely no heed of calf been n pen..
She is alone with calf in a creep pen... going to put her back on slat tomorrow and take her off each time to allow calf suck

I dunno what to tell you so!
After 5 calves before this one you would think she knows what it's all about.
Was it a difficult calving or strange in any other way?
What was she like in the first few mins after calving?

adne

Bizzum wrote: »

I dunno what to tell you so!
After 5 calves before this one you would think she knows what it's all about.
Was it a difficult calving or strange in any other way?
What was she like in the first few mins after calving?

Im puzzled by it... calved ok. i did not have to lay a hand on her... straight away she had no interest... left her 2 hours and still the same so had to put her in crush to get beestings into calf

Bizzum

adne wrote: »

Im puzzled by it...

There's a pair of us in it so!

DeVore

Do you know what... I'm half cut on holidays and I decided to wander my site and saw this thread... I'm a city boy. I know absolutely NOTHING about what you are talking about.... it must be what people who hear me talk about computers is like... but I'm dead proud tonight. This is exactly the kind of thread I envisaged 10 years ago.... people helping people. No thought of money or return or reward or nothing.
This is a community helping itself and I'm awful proud tonight. Dont ask me why this thread out of literally millions, maybe its cos animals are involved too (I do like them... mostly on my plate but also as creatures ).

Sorry, thats it, dont want to derail yer thread but I really hope you get your cow sorted, for some ungodly reasons thats very important to me tonight

DeV.

InchicoreDude

Is it too late to try this trick now 8 days later.. am losing heart and going to seperate the calf at the 2 week mark, buy in another suck and feed the 2 of them on milk replacement once a day....
Put dry cow tubes into the cow and wave good bye to her.....

8 days is a long time alright and I would be on the verge of giving up myself at this stage. I'd probably keep trying for another 4 or 5 days though. Did she have her previous calves on your farm or is she a new bought in cow?

pakalasa

DeVore wrote: »

...I decided to wander my site and saw this thread...... but I'm dead proud tonight. This is exactly the kind of thread I envisaged 10 years ago.... people helping people....

Am I reading this right?
You founded Boards.ie? :eek:

Figerty

Try getting some molasses, and pour it on the calves back.. the cows cant resist this. Do this after the calf has sucked so that the alf isn't running to the tit. It might get her licking and allowing the calf to suck later after giver her a handful of nuts.

It's possible she may tolerate the calf later and form some sort of bond.

DeVore

pakalasa wrote: »

Am I reading this right?
You founded Boards.ie? :eek:

I came up with the idea of a site of many forums for many types of "communities". I chatted with John "Cloud" Breslin about it and we roped in Regi, Vexorg and Tr1n1ty, and shortly after, Ecksor too. That was 11 years ago now... jesus :eek: http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/History and also http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Pre-History (the latter contains the actual chat record between me and Cloud which is really weird to look back on now hahaha).

My heads a bit sore today but I'm still happy about this thread hehe...

Ok, so on topic: What the hell is a beesting? What are the nuts for? (Do cows love nuts or something?).

DeV.

Bizzum

DeVore wrote: »

Ok, so on topic: What the hell is a beesting? What are the nuts for? (Do cows love nuts or something?). DeV.

Hi DeV,
Beastings or beestings is colostrum which is the milk that has sprung up in the cows elder or udder in the days leading up to calving. It is super nutritious and contains vital antibodies to give the calf the best start in life via immunity transfer. It is vital that a calf gets sucking within usually hours of birth.
Physically it looks like thin custard.

Nuts are a feed ration made up of assorted grains etc, and yeah cows love it.
Someone suggested mollasses too. Again smeared on the calf it would be the hope that the cow would start licking the calf and thus 'mother' her a bit!

Mothering ability is usually second nature to cows, and indeed most animals. When it go's wrong, and it is the exception rather than the rule, it causes a problem like this!

InchicoreDude

This is exactly the kind of thread I envisaged 10 years ago.... people helping people. No thought of money or return or reward or nothing.

Believe me, If you were ever in the situation the op is in now, you would try to help too.

Getting a cow to 'take' to a calf requires an awful lot of patience and it is one of the most frustrating jobs of farming. Then again, it is rewarding when the cow gets like to the calf.

Anyways, OP, Keep me updated on how you get on, I am interested to see if you have any success at this stage.

DeVore

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Believe me, If you were ever in the situation the op is in now, you would try to help too.

Getting a cow to 'take' to a calf requires an awful lot of patience and it is one of the most frustrating jobs of farming. Then again, it is rewarding when the cow gets like to the calf.

Anyways, OP, Keep me updated on how you get on, I am interested to see if you have any success at this stage.

And thats fantastic to see.... its the validation of my belief that at the core, people are better than they are made out to be.

But I have to ask... how does a "dude" from Inchicore know feck all about cow rearin'?? (And thats not a put down by any means... all my family are from Inchicore, Benmadigan Road in fact.... but unless they are grazing cows on John Bosco's football pitch these days.... LOL!)



Anyway, this behaviour is very weird... genetic selection would have killed this off eons ago if it didnt serve a purpose surely... any cow with genes that even tended towards abandoning their young would be selected out of the genepool. Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.


DeV.

pakalasa

DeVore wrote: »

...Anyway, this behaviour is very weird... genetic selection would have killed this off eons ago if it didnt serve a purpose surely... any cow with genes that even tended towards abandoning their young would be selected out of the genepool. Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.

DeV.

I said the same a few posts back. It may not be genetic though. Most of cattle's behaviour is governed by instinct. Logic doesn't come into it. In fact they can seem very dumb compared to, say a dog.
There's somthing in her head, that switch for the mothering instinct, that just hasn't switched on. It's usually the other way around, with normally quite cows turning aggressive to protect their calves.

InchicoreDude

But I have to ask... how does a "dude" from Inchicore know feck all about cow rearin'??

I have roots in both Inchicore & the country - I lived for a few years in Inchicore. But I am a country guy with as farming background and am back farming now.

Anyway, this behaviour is very weird... genetic selection would have killed this off eons ago if it didnt serve a purpose surely... any cow with genes that even tended towards abandoning their young would be selected out of the genepool. Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.

It is quite strange. It is more common with heifers (Cows having calves for the first time). I have also seen it happen with cows who have a difficult calving (And might need a section for example) and are too weak to 'mother' their calf for a couple of days. When they get better, they seem to have forgotten about the calf.

A more common thing to see would be a cow giving birth to a dead calf. Farmer then buys a calf from a dairy farm for the cow to adopt & rear as her own. Many of the techniques suggested in this thread are used to get the cow to adopt the bought calf. Also, sometimes, a cow might have a lot of milk; therefore after she calves, she is capable of rearing a second calf along with her own calf - so a calf is bought from a dairy farm & the farmer attempts to get the cow to mother the adopted calf.

adne

InchicoreDude wrote: »

8 days is a long time alright and I would be on the verge of giving up myself at this stage. I'd probably keep trying for another 4 or 5 days though. Did she have her previous calves on your farm or is she a new bought in cow?

She bought in 3 years back with a calf at foot, calved last year on farm and no issue,.... going to keep calf sucking while she indoors but come another 3 weeks and letting her out, will take calf off her... and fatten her for the S hook

what happen

hello lads one of the posters was saying in a differant post that he does not like buying in cows with calves at foot.he is not far wrong.you dont know what you are buying.the calf with the cow might not be hers.i bought in cows with calves at foot and it worked out okay.but i would not be buying any more.i will breed my own even if it is slow.sorry to hear about your cow attacking her calf.never heard of it before must be rare.