Luke Fitzgerald? *MOD Warning. Read OP.*

Laupelion

Mod Warning;

I have no problem with an individual player being discussed as long as the tone of the debate is intelligent, civilised and respectful. Anyone who insults a player/ fellow poster or goes tribal is getting a ban. This is your one and only warning.

There has been much discussion recently about Fitzgerald and what he offers to this Irish team. Firstly, I think we can all agree that the experiment at fullback was a failure, a fullback who can't catch is as useful as a scrum half who can't pass or an out half who can't kick. Secondly, I would question Fitzgeralds ability overall as a player. For an international winger 2 tries with 20 caps is honestly speaking, dreadful. I just can't understand how a player with a record like this is still regarded as a plausible international option, and while I understand we are not exactly blessed in the injury department at the moment, I believe his continuous inclusion in the match day 22 over the course of the six nations, while players of Mc Fadden and Trimbles calibre (and some may even argue Duffy) were excluded despite being key to their provinces success this season, to be completely unjust and unfair. I think it's time for us to call a spade a spade and admit that while he showed massive promise when he first came on the scene, this has not materialised into a productive international career to date and it seems he will never be more than a quality provincial player.

castie

In before lock!

Kilo

Laupelion wrote: »

There has been much discussion recently about Fitzgerald and what he offers to this Irish team. Firstly, I think we can all agree that the experiment at fullback was a failure, a fullback who can't catch is as useful as a scrum half who can't pass or an out half who can't kick. Secondly, I would question Fitzgeralds ability overall as a player. For an international winger 2 tries with 20 caps is honestly speaking, dreadful. I just can't understand how a player with a record like this is still regarded as a plausible international option, and while I understand we are not exactly blessed in the injury department at the moment, I believe his continuous inclusion in the match day 22 over the course of the six nations, while players of Mc Fadden and Trimbles calibre (and some may even argue Duffy) were excluded despite being key to their provinces success this season, to be completely unjust and unfair. I think it's time for us to call a spade a spade and admit that while he showed massive promise when he first came on the scene, this has not materialised into a productive international career to date and it seems he will never be more than a quality provincial player.

I think that your analysis would also need to include the record of other Irish wingers in the same period such as Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls. The fact that the ball has hardly made it to the wing in any of our matches may have something to do with this record.

There was nothing particularly bad about FitzGerald's full back play on Saturday; he made some very good catches under pressure, but for the most part was hampered by poor kicking on our part and was required to retreat regularly to collect well kicked Welsh ball when we had ceded possession in attack. His positional play was excellent in defense and his attacking play on the few occasions that he got playable ball was also solid.

He had a poor start to the campaign undoubtedly, but he was returning after a long lay off in a position he hasn't played regularly since his schooldays. There's an element of bandwaggoning a media-driven scapegoating of FitzGerald in your post when the facts show that he has improved in this position in every game he has played.

The French winger Huget has had an absolute mare in every game he has played in a French side that has multiple options in that position. We have practically no full back options left to us other than playing uncapped players or players well out of position.

TheRevolution

Laupelion wrote: »

There has been much discussion recently about Fitzgerald and what he offers to this Irish team. Firstly, I think we can all agree that the experiment at fullback was a failure, a fullback who can't catch is as useful as a scrum half who can't pass or an out half who can't kick. Secondly, I would question Fitzgeralds ability overall as a player. For an international winger 2 tries with 20 caps is honestly speaking, dreadful. I just can't understand how a player with a record like this is still regarded as a plausible international option, and while I understand we are not exactly blessed in the injury department at the moment, I believe his continuous inclusion in the match day 22 over the course of the six nations, while players of Mc Fadden and Trimbles calibre (and some may even argue Duffy) were excluded despite being key to their provinces success this season, to be completely unjust and unfair. I think it's time for us to call a spade a spade and admit that while he showed massive promise when he first came on the scene, this has not materialised into a productive international career to date and it seems he will never be more than a quality provincial player.

I'll be as brief as such a thread deserves.

Firstly, he has 20 caps but more than half of them have been at full back or first centre. Secondly he played the majority of his rugby during a time when Ireland were simply not scoring tries. He has has started for the Magners League Champions, the Heineken Cup Champions, the Grand Slam Champions and has started a full Lions test. If you genuinely don't think he offers something then you are dead wrong. Hes been selected in winning teams and has a Lions test. You simply do not get a Lions test when all the players in your position are fully fit unless you are very good.

Not only that but he is coming back from a career threatening injury and is being played in a position that he has never played in professional rugby for any considerable time.

Some of the comments on Fitzgerald so far ignore 2 very basic problems :
(1)Being played out of position
(2)After coming back from a year out of rugby

Please use your brain in future.

toomevara

I have no problem with an individual player being discussed as long as the tone of the debate is intelligent, civilised and respectful. Anyone who insults a player/ fellow poster or goes tribal is getting a ban. This is your one and only warning.

durkadurka

He's a bit like earls , excellent winger, iffy in other positions.

Staplor

He really needs a run, he was looking like he was almost world class around the Leinster H Cup win, but then an injury set him back. Excellent winger though, needs more game time and confidence before the WC.

vkid

if Thornley is to be believed, he's been dropped with Earls going to FB.

d'Oracle

I don't think he has looked good since before the Injuries.
Its a crying shame, but he is about a mile off the standard at the moment.

He certainly doesn't seem to have the eye for the counter which is why Wales could just kick all day long. I'm not going to trash him for the bad passes cos bad games happen but you can't help but be concerned about them.
I don't think he is the answer to our fullback crisis by a long shot.

TheRevolution

vkid wrote: »

if Thornley is to be believed, he's been dropped with Earls going to FB.

Hes injured. He was injured 10minutes into the game against Wales.

TheRevolution

d'Oracle wrote: »

I don't think he has looked good since before the Injuries.
Its a crying shame, but he is about a mile off the standard at the moment.

He certainly doesn't seem to have the eye for the counter which is why Wales could just kick all day long. I'm not going to trash him for the bad passes cos bad games happen but you can't help but be concerned about them.
I don't think he is the answer to our fullback crisis by a long shot.

This. Hes been very harshly treated after having such a long lay off and succession of injuries.

Tim Robbins

durkadurka wrote: »

He's a bit like earls , excellent winger, iffy in other positions.

He's the best stepper in Irish Rugby. He is playing under a manager that has no track record of having a team with counter attacking full back.

When Kidney was at Munster he had Dominic Crotty, an injured Christian Cullen who when fit ran lines for off loads that never came and Shaun Payne who was just solid.

Counter attacking is a mindset. It needs to be worked on collectively and strategically thoughts out. Irish teams are traditional useless at it.

If fitzgerald was as poor as some people here think he would not have been a first choice Lions player.

A nice step here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vCgnkMErZ0

And another nice step here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNNq4Blqck&feature=related

Riskymove

I dont see how people could get get tribal about this...I am a Munster fan and I think Luke is one of our most talented players

The current attempt to try him at 15 is not going too well...but not the nightmare some people make out either...the problem is he has not had enough game time at 15 and trying out a new position at 6N without much club experience would be a tough ask....I picture him spending hours at training under high balls!!

if he is moved from 15 he will be a starting winger instead..no question for me...but I hope instead he settles into 15 because his other abilities would make him a very potent force there

myflipflops

He has had a poor 6 Nations but remains a massive talent.

Anybody else remember what a poor player Tommy Bowe looked when he first played international rugby? Take a note how he has turned out.

Give Fitzgerald a bit of time to get back into form and he will be an important part of the World Cup squad.

Kilo

TheRevolution wrote: »

This. Hes been very harshly treated after having such a long lay off and succession of injuries.

+1

He's had a grand total of 15 starts for Leinster in the last two seasons to date. Not exactly the perfect preparation you'd need for a 6N. Since his last injury he's had three starts for Leinster.

I actually find the media attacks on rugby players to be abhorrent and ill-conceived. In fact the whole idea of singling out one player in a game where team performance is the most important facet is simplistic in the extreme.

And by team, I include management as well. I don't subscribe to the O'Gara v Sexton debate because both players bring a different dynamic to the game. What I don't understand is starting an attacking out half with a fringe attacking scrum half like O'Leary or a quick ball speciallist with a kicking out half.

I don't blame any of those players for the end result, it's the fault of management that they don't appear to know what sort of game is going to result from their selections.

vkid

TheRevolution wrote: »

Hes injured. He was injured 10minutes into the game against Wales.

didnt know that..why wasn't he taken off? What kind of injury

ilovelamp2000

TheRevolution wrote: »

This. Hes been very harshly treated after having such a long lay off and succession of injuries.

^^
This is ultimately it.

Nobody comes back from knee ligament damage and plays at their best from the beginning. He should be coming into his own just in time for the World Cup.

It's not his fault we have no better options than him at about 75% right now.

Stev_o

Tim Robbins wrote: »

He's the best stepper in Irish Rugby. He is playing under a manager that has no track record of having a team with counter attacking full back.

When Kidney was at Munster he had Dominic Crotty, an injured Christian Cullen who when fit ran lines for off loads that never came and Shaun Payne who was just solid.

Counter attacking is a mindset. It needs to be worked on collectively and strategically thoughts out. Irish teams are traditional useless at it.

If fitzgerald was as poor as some people here think he would not have been a first choice Lions player.

A nice step here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vCgnkMErZ0

And another nice step here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNNq4Blqck&feature=related

He wasn't a first choice Lion though. He was 3rd in line at the winger position. Monye was ahead of him for the sole reason that he scored tries and Fitz didn't.

It's a chronic problem of him though he just isn't scoring tries which for a winger is what your there for. He's become the Mark Ceuto of Ireland with a even worse strike rate.

Kilo

vkid wrote: »

didnt know that..why wasn't he taken off? What kind of injury

Ankle or lower leg as far as I can tell. He was limping for a while, but eventually was replaced by Paddy Wallace.

Kilo

Stev_o wrote: »

He wasn't a first choice Lion though. He was 3rd in line at the winger position. Monye was ahead of him for the sole reason that he scored tries and Fitz didn't.

Monye had a mare in that Lions tour, knocking on at the line is one of the highlights of his play that I can remember.

It's a chronic problem of him though he just isn't scoring tries which for a winger is what your there for. He's become the Mark Ceuto of Ireland with a even worse strike rate.

I'll just repeat this, which I posted on another thread...

If you look more closely at Fitz's Ireland record you'll find that of his 20 appearances, 3 were off the bench in a total of 5 between 2006 and 2008 and 7 were since November 2010 where he had just returned from a long injury lay off and in the middle of which he was injured again; his subsequent return this 6N has been in a position he hasn't played regularly since school.

His tries were scored in the 2008-09 season where his return was two tries from eight starts. He had one appearance in 2009 which was where his injury occurred.

He has 19 tries with Leinster from 60 starts and 15 substitutions; 5 of those tries in the Heineken Cup.

gosplan

I always thought he was one for the furture and with his long lay off, he's back to being one for the future.

As a comparison, what was Tommy Bowe doing when he was Fitz's age? I don't know myself but it may be of interest.

Kilo

gosplan wrote: »

I always thought he was one for the furture and with his long lay off, he's back to being one for the future.

As a comparison, what was Tommy Bowe doing when he was Fitz's age? I don't know myself but it may be of interest.

By the time he was 23 Tommy Bowe had made 12 appearances for Ireland only two of which were in the 6N. He scored three tries in that period from 2004 to the end of 2007, all in friendly matches (Autumn or Summer tour).

He really came good from 2008 onwards where he has scored 13 tries in 26 starts; 7 of which were in the 6N.

twinytwo

Stev_o wrote: »

He wasn't a first choice Lion though. He was 3rd in line at the winger position. Monye was ahead of him for the sole reason that he scored tries and Fitz didn't.

It's a chronic problem of him though he just isn't scoring tries which for a winger is what your there for. He's become the Mark Ceuto of Ireland with a even worse strike rate.

And look how that turned out for the lions... Fitz would have scored those tries that monye somehow managed to butcher.

d'Oracle

Kilo wrote: »

What I don't understand is starting an attacking out half with a fringe attacking scrum half like O'Leary or a quick ball speciallist with a kicking out half.

No offence, but I think this idea is mentalism.
To my mind, a scrum half's primary attribute is to pass.
"Fringe attacking" is something that comes as a bonus.
A scrumhalf shouldn't specialise in "quick ball". They should just do do it.
Thats part of our long standing problem. Certain players who just plain aren't good at what they should be doing.

I look at it this way, A scrum-half needs to:
1) Get the ball away.
2) Be able to box kick well.
3) Be capable of breaking.

After Saturday I would Put O'Leary 3rd in the order.
Being that Stringer is better and quicker at getting the ball away and better at box kicking.

I'd probably put Reddan on top cos he can do all three reasonably well, but he has been inconsistant. Right now, I'd have Stringer in, because he does 1) so well.

WRT Fitz, I don't see this harshly treated lark either.
If he is good for his place, he is good for his place. If he didn't get enough game time, why was he not getting enough game time?

Are we suggesting that a player should be thrown back in as soon as he gets back from injury just because he is? Fighting for his place is what makes a player better. If he looses that fight, then it seems a bit redundant to suggest that he should have more game time.

On Topic.

Luke Fitzgerald is a World Class winger
He has not fully recovered form from an injury that had him out for over a year.
He has been asked to fill a role that he is not completely familiar with, and though he may say it is his preferred position, experience is worth a heck of a lot in a position that demands you to stay disciplined when defending. Girvan Dempsey was Ireland full back for years ahead of Geordan Murphy due to, amongst other things, the fact that he was never out of position, and was as solid as it gets.
He looked hurt vs Wales, and our poor bench strategy meant that there was no adequate relief, which meant that he had to prolong the game and probably lose more confidence minute by minute.

Essentially, guy not fully ready to return on the wing, asked to cover an alien position, does an ok job, but nothing electric.

If we asked Iaasac Boss to play first centre, would we expect a world class performance?

JB1988

luke fitzgerald is a world class full back. You can only play as good as the players around you and no one in the irish team is living up to their full potential and I certainly think its cruel to single one person out. Lets target darcy, been around the block long enough but yet missed the tackle that cost us the french match, knocked on at least 6 balls against italy and all in all is not playing well but we could all pick flaws in the ireland game and the individuals in the team. Just because fitzgerald doesn have a strike rate like most wingers he will always gain yards, he picks lovely lines and sets up alot of tries. People tend to forget these things when someone is playing bad. He offers alot more to the game than kearney who will dance around like a ballarina and then kick it as high as he possibly can. Gavin duffy is not good enough to play international and thats just it, he proves himself with connacht and in the amlin challenge cup. Them competitions are no good to step up to international level.

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

On Topic.

Luke Fitzgerald is a World Class winger
He has not fully recovered form from an injury that had him out for over a year.
He has been asked to fill a role that he is not completely familiar with, and though he may say it is his preferred position, experience is worth a heck of a lot in a position that demands you to stay disciplined when defending. Girvan Dempsey was Ireland full back for years ahead of Geordan Murphy due to, amongst other things, the fact that he was never out of position, and was as solid as it gets.
He looked hurt vs Wales, and our poor bench strategy meant that there was no adequate relief, which meant that he had to prolong the game and probably lose more confidence minute by minute.

Essentially, guy not fully ready to return on the wing, asked to cover an alien position, does an ok job, but nothing electric.

If we asked Iaasac Boss to play first centre, would we expect a world class performance?

^^what he said

Big Balls

World Class? Jesus lads, get your heads out of the clouds. Say it again to yourself - world class? Luke is not world class or anything like it. Himself and a few others should spend more time training and less time chasing skirt in Krystle.

Big Balls

Big Balls wrote: »

World Class? Jesus lads, get your heads out of the clouds. Say it again to yourself - world class? Luke is not world class or anything like it. Himself and a few others should spend more time training and less time chasing skirt in Krystle.

:rolleyes:

Define World Class please.

For me, a 23 year old with a GS, HEC, ML and Lions Tours, while not having played more than 15 games in the last 2 years due to injuries, is pretty damn close to it...

With respect to the remainder of the post, I couldn't (nor shouldn't) give a flying **** what any of the team do in their spare time so long as they put it in on the pitch. Obviously recent form has been lacking, but he has had 0 gametime to rediscover his form.

I've made a concious effort not to respond to trolls on this forum for the last while, but that's just a bizarre comment altogether!

totallegend

Big Balls wrote: »

World Class? Jesus lads, get your heads out of the clouds. Say it again to yourself - world class? Luke is not world class or anything like it. Himself and a few others should spend more time training and less time chasing skirt in Krystle.

If the mod wanted to ban you, I don't think anyone would object.

Luke Fitzgerald is world class, he lacks experience at full back but he has been one of the few Irish players to actually take on a defender and beat him in this Six Nations.
Heineken Cup, Grand Slam, Magners League and a Lions cap by the age of 21, followed by two seasons massively disrupted by injury. I think he's doing OK so far.
Girvan Dempsey was slated for ages because he was regarded as the 'safe' option, all he could do was catch and kick, Kearney now getting the same treatment, but when a guy comes in who can do something a bit different and exciting but drops the odd ball, there's murder.

Hype710

I dislike the term 'world class', but if it is to mean one of the top players in your position in world rugby, then i'm sorry but Fitzgerald falls into neither category (wing or full back).

vkid

World class is a term that is being bandied about far too easily in Irish rugby recently imo.
Not specific to Fitz but in general..every second player, someone is calling them world class. I don't think Fitz is myself

evil_seed

Luke Fitzgerald is nowhere near "world class". He has potential. But that potential is not being recognised and in fact, he has regressed from what he was over the last few seasons. Right now he should be nowhere near the Leinster or Irish team.
His passing is atrocious and has been the cause of scores against this year. If you look at a lot of the trys conceded by Leinster this year, he is at fault for the majority. He is not good enough under the high ball and has been rightly targetted by opposing teams. He looks so awkward when kicking the ball it's like he's never kicked before

d'Oracle

I think people have a massively inflated opinion of Luke.
He is a talented player, before he got hurt he was very bloody good.
He has the potential to be good again. And I like him as a player.

But if I were to pick two squads of 22 players out of the pool of international players, I wouldn't put him near either.

Stev_o

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Define World Class please.

For me, a 23 year old with a GS, HEC, ML and Lions Tours, while not having played more than 15 games in the last 2 years due to injuries, is pretty damn close to it...

With respect to the remainder of the post, I couldn't (nor shouldn't) give a flying **** what any of the team do in their spare time so long as they put it in on the pitch. Obviously recent form has been lacking, but he has had 0 gametime to rediscover his form.

I've made a concious effort not to respond to trolls on this forum for the last while, but that's just a bizarre comment altogether!

Medals mean nothing emmet and you know that. Ian Balshaw was been a Lions tourist on two occasions has won a GS and a RWC medal yet he ll only ever be described as a good player.

Fitzgerald is a good player. When he first came on the scene he looked like his progression from a good player into a great one would be quick but alas that hasn't happened. He's failed to find a position to play and excel in.

I still think moving forward he's our best option at FB where he can make deft touches by coming into the line. I think he's wasted on the wing where other players would be considered better then him.

Im not saying this guy should be dropped and never play rugby again im saying people need to step back and be realistic player. He's a good player but no way is he World Class.

irishbucsfan

Luke Fitzgerald is great player and I'm a big fan, but he is certainly not world class.

molloyjh

Stev_o wrote: »

It's a chronic problem of him though he just isn't scoring tries which for a winger is what your there for.

To score tries you need the ball in your hand though. If the wings aren't being used effectively then it's not his fault he's not scoring, or at least not all his fault.

Kilo wrote: »

Ankle or lower leg as far as I can tell. He was limping for a while, but eventually was replaced by Paddy Wallace.

What about the knock to his arm?

d'Oracle wrote: »

WRT Fitz, I don't see this harshly treated lark either.
If he is good for his place, he is good for his place. If he didn't get enough game time, why was he not getting enough game time?

If only it were that simple though. Our options at FB are severly limited through injury and had that not been the case I can't see any scenario where Fitzy would have been picked in that spot. His game time alone has been incredibly limited due to injury and he'd only 1 game at FB against the Ospreys in the ML before the 6Ns. How anyone expected him to do particularly well is beyond me.

He hasn't been helped either by an underperforming side with a poor game plan and awful game management. That said he hooked up well with Earls a few times against Wales and he has been improving in each game. The problem is there was no lead in time to allow him to get up to scratch properly and settle into the role. The tournament can't be doing his confidence any good on top of all of that so all of these factors have to be considered.

Kilo

evil_seed wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald is nowhere near "world class". He has potential. But that potential is not being recognised and in fact, he has regressed from what he was over the last few seasons. Right now he should be nowhere near the Leinster or Irish team.
His passing is atrocious and has been the cause of scores against this year. If you look at a lot of the trys conceded by Leinster this year, he is at fault for the majority. He is not good enough under the high ball and has been rightly targetted by opposing teams. He looks so awkward when kicking the ball it's like he's never kicked before

Seriously? He's had a total of 15 starts for Leinster in the last two seasons to date. All the things you describe are exactly what happens to a player who has returned from serious injury and is finding his feet. His timing is out by fractions of a second and his kicking is hampered by the fact that it's a leg injury he's come back from. Players get injured all the time, but a leg injury is the hardest to come back from for a back as it affects pretty much every aspect of their play. I expect Rob Kearney to have an equally difficult return to form when eventually he does come back, but I'd never suggest as you seem to be doing that he has to be dropped until he somehow finds his timing and skills on the training pitch.

d'Oracle

molloyjh wrote: »

He hasn't been helped either by an underperforming side with a poor game plan and awful game management. That said he hooked up well with Earls a few times against Wales and he has been improving in each game.

Its not that I disagree with you entirely.
But he also epically failed to hook up with Earls on a number of occasions against Wales.

Stev_o

molloyjh wrote: »

To score tries you need the ball in your hand though. If the wings aren't being used effectively then it's not his fault he's not scoring, or at least not all his fault.



.

Even with Leinster though his strike rate is pretty low 19 in 60 appearances isn't that fantastic compared to the other top wingers in the ML and HC.

He's a creator not a finisher imo hence why id like him to continue at FB.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Medals mean nothing emmet and you know that. Ian Balshaw was been a Lions tourist on two occasions has won a GS and a RWC medal yet he ll only ever be described as a good player.

damn, I hate when people use my own arguments to prove me wrong!

Hmm, I suppose I could definitely back track on what I've said, and say that I believe that Fitz can/could be World Class. He's so far from match fit at the moment (not unexpectedly) that he's simply off the pace.

There's only one real way to get through that though, and its to keep the head down, and grind your way back into form.

In 2/3 years time, I hope we can rewrite this thread, because if we're basing it on the last 2 seasons, he's been absent through injury. And in the previous two, he was a coach's wet dream.

Stev_o

Deleted User wrote: »

damn, I hate when people use my own arguments to prove me wrong!

Hmm, I suppose I could definitely back track on what I've said, and say that I believe that Fitz can/could be World Class. He's so far from match fit at the moment (not unexpectedly) that he's simply off the pace.

There's only one real way to get through that though, and its to keep the head down, and grind your way back into form.

In 2/3 years time, I hope we can rewrite this thread, because if we're basing it on the last 2 seasons, he's been absent through injury. And in the previous two, he was a coach's wet dream.

Of course he has the potential to be World Class nearly every player at this level can hell look at Tom Plamer definition of a journeyman for many a year then all of a sudden this year he's one of the best locks in NH.

Fitz just has to settle in a position and please for the love of god let it be FB. You can teach someone how to catch a ball you can't teach natural ability of identifying space and picking smart lines.

molloyjh

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not that I disagree with you entirely.
But he also epically failed to hook up with Earls on a number of occasions against Wales.

True, but he wasn't alone there. He's certainly a little off the pace but what do we expect if he's not long back from injury and playing in an unfamiliar position (for all intents and purposes it is at this level). Not to mention that he was probably carrying at least 1 knock for the majority of the game.

Stev_o wrote: »

Even with Leinster though his strike rate is pretty low 19 in 60 appearances isn't that fantastic compared to the other top wingers in the ML and HC.

He's a creator not a finisher imo hence why id like him to continue at FB.

Agreed, I think this talk of a "failed experiment" is very premature.

mrboswell

Well he's not playing against England...

Still very early days and I believe he has far more potential than Earls.

Time will tell

d'Oracle

molloyjh wrote: »

Not to mention that he was probably carrying at least 1 knock for the majority of the game.

I think my monthly participation in this forum is about to run out.

Knock?
Carrying an Knock?

Its bloody rugby.
Everybody is carrying a knock.

[Jackass]

Luke Fitz has been absolutely abysmal for Ireland and in general this season has been poor.

He's been out of position at full-back (what he claims to be his best position) and has been injured, but his ability to pass the ball under no pressure (which he has had a suprising amount of trouble with in his game for some time now) as well as his kicking and positioning have all been very poor.

I've given Keith Earls serious stick on here for being an awful full-back, and just to show that when the shoe is on the other foot, Luke Fitz is equally as awfull at full-back.

Can't wait to get him (amongst others) out of that Irish camp and get them playing rugby again.

Hopefully can get a few players form back before Leicester.

leftofthedial

Players get lauded as being 'world class' in rugby is because there are so few dominant teams. Between 6 Nations and 4 Nations (when the Pumas come on board that is) that's a very small pool of players. If you make it on to a national team and don't embarrass yourself (like Monye on the Lions tour) you'll get that tag. Really it's meaningless.

Fitzgerald is determined to play FB, but he should be getting up to speed in the AIL, not 6N. Sexton had to play at club level when he wasn't getting game time with Leinster, as did POC coming back from injury.

As it stands we have an inexperienced FB struggling in a new position with a lot of responsibility. As such he's been badly exposed.

Kicking game aside (it can only improve), Fitz's biggest issue is that he still overruns passes. This has always been a fault in his game, and one that shows no sign of being rectified.

mrboswell

leftofthedial wrote: »

Players get lauded as being 'world class' in rugby is because there are so few dominant teams. Between 6 Nations and 4 Nations (when the Pumas come on board that is) that's a very small pool of players. If you make it on to a national team and don't embarrass yourself (like Monye on the Lions tour) you'll get that tag. Really it's meaningless.

Fitzgerald is determined to play FB, but he should be getting up to speed in the AIL, not 6N. Sexton had to play at club level when he wasn't getting game time with Leinster, as did POC coming back from injury.

As it stands we have an inexperienced FB struggling in a new position with a lot of responsibility. As such he's been badly exposed.

Kicking game aside (it can only improve), Fitz's biggest issue is that he still overruns passes. This has always been a fault in his game, and one that shows no sign of being rectified.

With respect, its not a players fault if they voice a preference for a position and then the coach picks them in that position.

What do you expect Fitzgerald to do? Tell Kidney he's not up to it?

Sometimes you gotta play where you are put and try to play into some sort of form.

Also the loss to Wales is not just down to overrunning a pass or 2.

There are other people that should have taken a knock before him, but its good that the squad know that anyone can be dropped.

He's young and will come back into form.

Kilo

[Jackass] wrote: »

Luke Fitz has been absolutely abysmal for Ireland and in general this season has been poor.

All seven since coming back from a year off and all seven (including four 6N at full back) since coming back from two months out? He's hardly had an opportunity to string a few performances together in that time.

He's been out of position at full-back (what he claims to be his best position)

Nope, he says it's his favourite position.

and has been injured, but his ability to pass the ball under no pressure (which he has had a suprising amount of trouble with in his game for some time now) as well as his kicking and positioning have all been very poor.

His timing is out of kilter which is what you'd expect after such a long lay off. Watch Rob Kearney when he eventually comes back, remember how long it took BOD to get his form back after the New Zealand incident?

I've given Keith Earls serious stick on here for being an awful full-back, and just to show that when the shoe is on the other foot, Luke Fitz is equally as awfull at full-back.

I've actually seen Fitz play at full back, both when he was at school and also when he first started for Leinster. He was a fantastic player in that position and gave Rob Kearney (who had been fading a bit at that time), the requisite kick in the ass to up his game.

Emmmooo

So was he dropped or is he injured?

Has anyone else noticed how many times he over runs a pass when the ball is being moved across the line? His timing is very poor and its something he needs to look at and work on big time.

The more and more I see of him I feel he has been inflated and is over-rated. I know he was a star schools player but hey if all the players that were star players at that level fulfilled their promise then we'd be winning this and many other Six nations.

In the same way that Fitzgerald's timing is so poor has anyone else noticed the amount of times Keith Earls runs into touch? Have a look on Saturday, although he might not do it as much from full back, but he does do it a lot.

vetinari

I doubt he's fully fit. That's all there is to it. Still think he is a good player though.