Who do you blame?

Hazys

In the labor dispute and the lockout, who do you feel is most to blame?


I was orginally thinking there was equal blame but for me now, its the players i blame mostly for stand off we are currently facing. The owners look more honest in their want for football in September.

They asked to see the financial data of the NFL for 10 years, they got 5years of data and a lot of this data most clubs and owners have never seen and they tru a hissy fit because they didnt get what they wanted. I feel the NFL gave more than they should have. Imagine if a bunch of gifted employees went on strike and asked to see the their company's books, it would be considered a ridiculous request.

Orginally i thought the players were negotiating for things like more safety for the players, better retirement plans and medical assistence for retired players, from what i know the NFL agreed to all that. But it seems that was all minor stuff and the players really only care about one thing...Money.

Recently representives of the NFLPA have come out and said they are not considering negotiating till the court case, which just seems they upto to nothing constructive but throwing hissy fits, while the owners are open to negotiating.

On the eve of the lockout the owners offered their best deal and the players point blank refused it and refused to even to use it as a basis for negotiating.

I think how the players handle this so far will haunt them as over-paid prima donnas like it haunts the MLB players after their strike.

SantryRed

Started off blaming the owners. Have completely reversed now and completely blame the players.

Mr. Guappa

I honestly don't know which side to blame so I blame both sides equally.

I will say that the owners are definitely winning the PR battle at the moment but it's impossible to know where the truth lies. For every bit of information that comes out from one side regarding the negotiations, an opposite story will come out from the other side.

A couple of weeks ago I was in the players corner, then after they de-certified and the owners told us what they had offered I was on the owners side. But then the players made a convincing argument that the owners' offer wasn't all they made it out to be so I'm leaning towards the players again. But, basically it seems to me that at the moment both sides are more interested in winning the PR battle than getting a deal done.

Hopefully it gets sorted soon but I reckon it gets a whole lot worse before we get back to football.

davyjose

SantryRed wrote: »

Started off blaming the owners. Have completely reversed now and completely blame the players.

Why?

tallaghtoutlaws

Its simply down to greed on both sides of the camp.

frostie500

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Its simply down to greed on both sides of the camp.

Thats the way I fell too Tallaght. as things stand right here right now I blame both sides but if the players go forward with stupid stunts like what they are planning for the draft I will change to blaming them more than the owners.

Both sides had plenty of time to do a deal before all this, and still plenty of time before things get really messy, but the PR battle is going to be the most annoying element of the this saga. Peter Kings, I think, wrote something along the lines of: "fans dont want to hear anything from the players about their plans for the draft and their PR, the only thing we want to hear is a new CBA has been agreed"

That's most definitely how I feel about it and hopefully we get it sorted ASAP

Dohnny Jepp

I blame the fans. Like the players and owners just want to make money. But the stingy fans don't think its right to pay loads for a ticket.
How dare they.

raven136

I honestly blame the owners more.They stored up tv money for a lockout until the judge threw that out.
They complain about stadium costs etc but werent they mainly built with public money?

"Originally estimated to cost $650 million, the stadium's current construction cost was $1.15 billion,[13] making it one of the most expensive sports venues ever built. To aid Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones in paying the construction costs of the new stadium, Arlington voters approved the increase of the city's sales tax by 0.5 percent, the hotel occupancy tax by 2 percent, and car rental tax by 5 percent. The City of Arlington provided over $325 million (including interest) in bonds as funding,[13][14] and Jones covered any cost overruns. Also, the NFL provided the Cowboys with an additional $150 million loan, as per their policy for facilitating financing for the construction of new stadiums.[15]"

A lot if not most of the stadium are built by public money or increased taxes in the area and dont the owners then owe people football?

Was it not the owners who backed out early out of the present CBA which the players liked?
The players wanted to see the books and this was not granted.

Basically the players were told,give us 20-30% of your earnings back because we want to make more profit.
After looking at the numbers from tv deals,what would you do if you were a player?

For every Manning and Brady there is your De or Safety not earning a few million a year.

Yeah D Smith seesm a tough nut but i cant seem to disagree with much of what he said.
The players union have had 1/3 of their members on injured reserve this past season,the owners want more games from them.Their average career last 3.5 years.Id be pissed off too.


Maybe im in the minority.

But at least keep Jerry Jones out of the discussions if this is anything to go by:

Posted by Mike Florio on March 15, 2011, 7:04 PM EDT
At the outset of a summary of last week’s collapse of negotiation sessions between the NFL and the players’ union, Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated paints a picture of the kind of disrespect that likely helped the drive players toward the decertification-and-litigation option.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, not a bit humbler after last month’s Super Bowl seating fiasco or the prior day’s finding that the owners had abused their duty to max out revenues by cutting a deal for lockout insurance, opened a face-to-face meeting with the players on March 2 with the following message to the players who attended the session.

“I don’t think we’ve got your attention,” Jones said, according to several players who spoke anonymously to Trotter. “You clearly don’t understand what we’re saying, and we’re not hearing what you’re saying. So I guess we’re going to have to show you to get your attention.”

Per Trotter, Jones then tapped his fists together. The players interpreted the gesture as a sign that a lockout was coming. (Maybe he was simply using Friends code for giving the finger.)

Jones then stood up and walked out. Panthers owner Jerry Richardson reportedly prepared to leave as well, but Patriots owner Robert Kraft put a hand on Richardson’s forearm, prompting Richardson to stay put.

If the report is accurate, it’s troubling. And it helps us understand why the deal couldn’t get done.

And it makes us even more convinced that, if the talks were being handled by a mediator appointed by one of the two judges who have authority over the litigation between the parties, the owners would think twice before acting that way in the presence of a person who can promptly report back to Judge Doty or Judge Nelson any unreasonable or abusive or counterproductive conduct.

Until that happens, the process would be better served if, when talks resume, some of the owners stay home and count their money

spiralism

Definitely blamed the owners more initially, but DeMaurice Smith and the NFLPA have been doing their level best to become the bad guys in all of this over the last couple of weeks. If they stop the draft from happening, well fúck them.

The Munky

IMHO its all nonsense, the owners make more than enough and the players make more than enough, why don't they both take reductions and donate the rest to charities in the franchise city?
Completely restructure the rookie salary system so falls more in line with standard employment terms IE, you start working cheap and prove your value and when that is done re-route that shift in income to the veterans and injured.

If teams have large roster potential say 100, they could slide the 47 or so not on the main roster to another 'partner' franchise in a completely new league with new franchises, played over 12 games in starting in March..... any starlets get taken back to their parent franchise. It allows players to prove to their team they can play. The AFL is seen as competition when it should be seen as a Saviour. This makes football accessible during the months where there was none, create new teams which will create new fans which will create a greater presence worldwide and ultimately grow the game.

NFL Europe never worked because it got support form the home fans but it never really got a chance. But an NFL 2.0 might in the US.

etc etc

me-skywalker

raven136 wrote: »

Basically the players were told,give us 20-30% of your earnings back because we want to make more profit.
After looking at the numbers from tv deals,what would you do if you were a player?

have had 1/3 of their members on injured reserve this past season,the owners want more games from them.Their average career last 3.5 years.Id be pissed off too.

Maybe if more don't waste their years in college they can pursue another career. With a good nest of money behind them and a high-profile name form the NFL, a good education and support system provided for, I'm sure many wouldnt struggle to start-up business if they so wished.

me-skywalker

Sorry that response might have sounded bitter, here's my 2 cents.

I blame the system itself. Both parties are equally to blame for the hold up.

The evolution of the sport into a colossal money maker and popularity can be seen everywhere and the figures are there to back it up. As a side I think the increase in the boards.ie AF forum is just a indicator in itself of the increased interest(Ild say that generally happens around SB time anyway).

But the game is moving on at leaps and bounds on all fronts, from the players atheleticism, skills, media coverage with the internet now easily and cheaply making games 'free' to see and to the technolgy available, recently shown in the new armour tops that can measure players heart-beats and heat during game.

The owners want more games, the media want more games, Wallstreet wants more games heck WE as fans want more games. That alone needs to happen.

The players want more money, broken down as salary increase, insurance benefits and pension benefits. Highly understandable. They also want increased protection and less contact in training which will reduce injuries in the long-run and might increase career span. Which we all want when we have fav players and have an affinity to players.

I believe the players should get the majority of what they asked for including an extra bye-week in the regular season especially considering the distance some teams travel. The one thing in the minority they should be willing to leverage for the rest is the basic salary increase, which should be given for the 2 extra games and then as performance based bonuses and then the additional insurance/pension benefits. Plus maybe after retirement courses for players to be integrated back into coaching/youth welfare schemes/community schemes/media training/charity work stuff like that to help spread the wealth. All a dream though never gonna happen.

*EDIT: apologies for spelling/rushed jargon was in work'

Itssoeasy

Day 21 of the lockout lads. God this is getting painful.