Upgrade from 500D Advice and Help Needed!

OREGATO

Hey guys,

I'm currently looking into upgrading from my 500D. It's a good camera but I think I want to upgrade to either a 7D or a 5D MKII.

I started off looking at the 7D but the fact that it's not full frame is putting me off a little. I mean, realistically apart from the new auto focus system on the 7D there doesn't seem to be any thing else that pops out as being worthwhile as an upgrade from the 500D, if I went for the 7D I would be able to use my current lenses with it. As for the 5D, the fact that it's full frame and is ment to be great for portrait and landscape shots, it has me swayed towards it a little more for the extra price.

I'm torn, in fact, I'm not sure why I want to upgrade and I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of people saying that I'm stupid and that the 500D is good enough and to buy new lenses and then upgrade the body later on.

But there is just something that is swaying me towards upgrading the body and then investing in the glass after. I wouldn't call myself a snob or anything but I just feel like I want to upgrade. I mean, obviously, upgrading to a better camera isn't going to make me a better photographer, but there is a sense of motivation involved (for me anyway).

The other side is that my GF is looking into getting into photography, so I said I would give her the 500D to use instead of me going to the hassle of selling it or trading it in. She naturally offered to put something towards my new purchase if I went for it.

So my next question is, if I were to buy, where should I go? I've been looking at a few shops and I think Berminghams have the cheapest offer for body and kit lens at €2,999

http://www.berminghamcameras.ie/store/index.php?target=products&product_id=2964

Any advice or tips welcome.

Promac

I did almost the same thing recently - went from a 450 to a 5Dii and wifey got the hand-me-down and loves it. Had no reason to other than I wanted to. Don't regret it a bit - the camera is a joy to use. I got it body-only and just used the 50mm 1.8 for a while which was great. I got a 28-135 after that and even though it's not L-quality, it's actually very bloody close to it (I've had a 24-70L on a loaner and the resulting images aren't all that much better - certainly not 1000 euro's worth of different).

One thing to know though is that the stock is very bloody scarce - I had to wait a while to get mine as no-one in Ireland had a single one. Eventually got mine in Conn's, body-only. It was 2200 in there but Conn's give you free servicing for life and I keep getting invited to free courses as a result of buying in their shop - was on a landscape course in glendalough at the weekend with Dave McCane from the IoP (plus lots of lenses, bodies and various other gear you could borrow) and they brought Dave Newton (Norton?) over for a free SLR video course a few weeks previous too.



TL;DR? If you have the money, go for it.

OREGATO

Promac wrote: »

I did almost the same thing recently - went from a 450 to a 5Dii and wifey got the hand-me-down and loves it. Had no reason to other than I wanted to. Don't regret it a bit - the camera is a joy to use. I got it body-only and just used the 50mm 1.8 for a while which was great. I got a 28-135 after that and even though it's not L-quality, it's actually very bloody close to it (I've had a 24-70L on a loaner and the resulting images aren't all that much better - certainly not 1000 euro's worth of different).

One thing to know though is that the stock is very bloody scarce - I had to wait a while to get mine as no-one in Ireland had a single one. Eventually got mine in Conn's, body-only. It was 2200 in there but Conn's give you free servicing for life and I keep getting invited to free courses as a result of buying in their shop - was on a landscape course in glendalough at the weekend with Dave McCane from the IoP (plus lots of lenses, bodies and various other gear you could borrow) and they brought Dave Newton (Norton?) over for a free SLR video course a few weeks previous too.



TL;DR? If you have the money, go for it.

Thanks for the advice.

The thing is, I'm still half torn, maybe 80/20 towards going for it.

If I were not to go for the deal above with the 24-70 lens, what other lense should I go for?

I think a 50mm may be a bit limiting for the shots I take so would rather go for the body and lense.

Promac

If you have the money for the camera and kit lens then get that. I didn't so I just got the body.

What kind of shots are you looking to take? The 50mm on a full-frame camera is a lot wider than on your 500D.

Thecageyone

There's nothing stupid about wanting to upgrade. End of the day, it's nowt to do with anyone else what will satisfy you

I'd say you're right to look to full frame if you can afford to, over another cropped sensor. It makes sense. You want the best tools for the job. The lens issue is one major reason many don't make the move up though. A while ago o could have had a D3 for very cheap, but I only has dx lenses and just can't afford the gear that's needed to get the best from the full frame.

It's worth while thinking ahead on these things I'd say.

OREGATO

Great information in those two post guys, much appreciated.

Cagey, I get what you're saying about the gear, I have purchased two EF-S lenses and both would not be compatible with a full frame camera so in my own head and with my man maths, it makes sense to upgrade to full frame sooner rather than later. I'll spend the money on better lenses that will work on the cameras rather than having to sell incompatible lenses after X months/years.

At the start, I can understand people saying not to purchase something that's going to cost €€€€'s just in case its not their cup of tea etc but I've gone through that phase now and although I go through phases of using the camera and sometimes it stays dormant I still like photography and want to up my skill level and tools. I guess over the winter time, I never really had a chance to use it as much as I'd have liked to (work being the main reason)

But seeing as we're coming into the summer months with longer evenings and stuff, I wouldn't mind taking the camera and taking more shots and learning more.

As for budget, like I said, my heart was set at the start on the 7D which was well within budget but after reading more and more, it turned straight away to focus on a 5D which made more sense even though that means my budget is now pushed out a little.

I would be able to spend the €2k on the camera, but as for the lense, if I wasn't going to go for the kit lens, what would you guys recommend as an all rounder?

As for what type of shots I take, I am into my cars, so would do trackday motor event photos (just on a personal level not professional etc) and also, I enjoy going on holidays and taking photos of landscapes and scenery etc.

Keep the advice coming!

gloobag

All I'll say is, that the auto focus on the 5DmkII is awful. Do a google search and you will find a ridiculous amount of people having problems with the camera, myself included. My mkII is severley missing focus pretty much 100% of the time now, so I need to get it, and my lenses recalibrated, which is gonna cost a small fortune.

My advise, either go for the 7D or wait for the 5DmkIII. And if you do decide to wait for the mkIII, I'd say even wait 6 months after launch to purchase, just incase they repeat the same fcuk up with the launch mkIIs.

Sorry, I just don't really trust Canon anymore :mad:

OREGATO

gloobag wrote: »

All I'll say is, that the auto focus on the 5DmkII is awful. Do a google search and you will find a ridiculous amount of people having problems with the camera, myself included. My mkII is severley missing focus pretty much 100% of the time now, so I need to get it, and my lenses recalibrated, which is gonna cost a small fortune.

My advise, either go for the 7D or wait for the 5DmkIII. And if you do decide to wait for the mkIII, I'd say even wait 6 months after launch to purchase, just incase they repeat the same fcuk up with the launch mkIIs.

Sorry, I just don't really trust Canon anymore :mad:

From a few of the reviews I have read, I didn't encounter anything regarding this, but after doing a search on problems it appears its hit and miss?

daycent

The 5D II's autofocus only bothers me in really low light situations. I've never used it, but apparently the 7D's autofocus is a massive step up. I suppose it depends on what you'll be shooting if it would bother you or not. If you find yourself shooting a lot of "action" type shots, i.e. using AI servo mode a lot, I would go for the 7D. If you find yourself using a tripod a lot, go for the 5D!

I'm not sure I would be bothered waiting for the Mark III. By the time it comes out, I would be surprised if it's not significantly dearer than the Mark II.

I buy all my equipment from Ian Kerr in Scotland, as do many in this forum. Do a search on him (Kerso) if you want more feedback. Excellent prices and service.

Promac

The autofocus on my 5d mark ii is absolutely fine. Haven't had a single problem with it. The only time I've had an out of focus shot is when it was ME that was fcuking it up.

The problem most people have with the 5dii AF is that it's the same one as the original 5d had and not the newer AF system on the 7D (or even the 40D or 50D).

If you really, really need the outer AF points then go for something else but to say that it makes the difference between a 5Dii and a 7D is totally off - especially for someone who already has a 500D.

Cionn

How about the suggestion of waiting for the 5diii I'm not sure when it will land but it would have to be some time this year. Take a bit of the savings and buy a decent lens that will fit a full frame camera, then wait for the mark 3 and you will only have to fork out for the body.

I have the 7d and it's great but a real monster to understand, I really like the wireless flash option plus the speed is great. All in all depends on what you will be shooting.

C

Promac

The mark iii is still only a rumour and canon have no reason to change that - the mark ii is still selling well and would only lose a load of value if canon were to announce the mark iii any time soon.

If you had enough money for the mark ii would you really sit on it for the best part of a year just in case?

OREGATO

Thanks for all the input guys, Promac, big thanks for your posts as they really helped my decision.

I bit the bullet at lunch time yesterday and headed down to Bermingham Cameras to purchase a new 5D MKII!

Dealt with Brian and all I can say is top class service.

I was kind of rushed as I was on my lunch, but he went through everything with me. Also said that any time I wanted a proper demonstration of the camera to pop in and he'll go through it. I don't know why I didn't go to these guys previously as they are actually top class.

Anyway, back to the camera.

I only took a few snaps with it last night. I put my nifty fifty on it, which obviously wouldn't bring out the best in the body but I have to say the pictures were very crisp and sharp and the results I just couldn't get from the 500D.

The only thing is, indoor shooting with moderate light, the pictures came out a little dark, probably down to me as I'm not too good with metering and was going off the cameras meter but I'd say that's down to me more than the camera.

The layout is really neat and I got used to it fairly quick although I think with the D-Pad, the wheel and the top wheel, it can get a bit confusing which one to use at time but I guess that's part of the learning curve.

I took a few pictures this morning out in the sunlight and again, just couldn't believe the sharpness of the images.

The next step for me now is to learn more about the camera and also pick up a lense. I have a nifty fifty and a 70 - 300mm Sigma lens to start me off on, but would ideally want to pick up a walk around lens - any recommendations on what lens I should go for? Ideally, I'll probably want to purchase second hand for the time being.

Thanks again guys.

Promac

You'll get the hang of the wheels - it's second nature now to me. And I reckon it was probably your setup that caused the dark shots indoors. Last night I actually checked out the extended ISO functions (You have to switch on a custom function to get it as an option) and it's unreal - almost like night vision!

How much have you got to spend on a lens? The 50mm is a good lens and should do you rightly for a lot of walk-around stuff and all your indoors or portrait stuff too. I didn't have a lot of cash and couldn't justify going up to a grand any time soon so I went for a canon 28-135 USM. Lovely lens and a total bargain for the price. Sharpness is extremely close to a 24-70L and it's almost a grand cheaper. Keep an eye on adverts.ie though as you get the odd bargain there and conn's keep a half-decent stock of second hand stuff too. They keep their website update with it too I think.

Thecageyone

The 50mm will probably be as sharp as anything else you put on there. Primes are almost always great, no matter the price. As for indoor shots, shove that ISO right up, it's one of the great things about that camera.

kelly1

OREGATO wrote: »

I only took a few snaps with it last night. I put my nifty fifty on it, which obviously wouldn't bring out the best in the body but I have to say the pictures were very crisp and sharp and the results I just couldn't get from the 500D.

.....
I took a few pictures this morning out in the sunlight and again, just couldn't believe the sharpness of the images.

Sorry, I don't mean to derail this thread, but can someone please explain to me how full frame gives greater sharpness? Is it not all down to the lens? Is it the higher resolution of the 5Dii over the 500D?

OREGATO

kelly1 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't mean to derail this thread, but can someone please explain to me how full frame gives greater sharpness? Is it not all down to the lens? Is it the higher resolution of the 5Dii over the 500D?

Hi Kelly,

My comment was purely based on my own experience, it could have been a number of factors, even a placebo effect of having a better camera but I just think that off the bad, the shots look a lot sharper. It could be me as well.

I've lent my 500D to a friend of mine for a few days but will do the same shots side by side and post up to show the difference (if any)

Thecageyone

I don't know about the larger sensor being sharper, but they will handle noise a lot better, and there is more pixels across the image which probably does contribute to overall sharpness. The glass, as ever, makes most of the difference. Fx glass is much more expensive for a reason.

http://photofocus.com/2009/04/19/full-frame-or-crop-sensor-you-decide/

kelly1

OREGATO wrote: »

Hi Kelly,

My comment was purely based on my own experience, it could have been a number of factors, even a placebo effect of having a better camera but I just think that off the bad, the shots look a lot sharper. It could be me as well.

I've lent my 500D to a friend of mine for a few days but will do the same shots side by side and post up to show the difference (if any)

Thanks, you're not the first to say it, so there must be something in it!

I've been giving this some thought and it makes sense to me now that full frame would be sharper than cropped. When you crop the image circle, you effectively magnify the image, including softness like chromatic abberation. Therefore on cropped sensors, your lenses have to be sharper to give the same sharpness as full frame. On the flip side, lenses on full-frame don't need to be as sharp as lenses on cropped sensors.

Article here

Edit: Having said that, lenses are softer at the edges so this will be exaggerated on full frame!