Boyles - A Joke!

fish86

I have ,in recent times, had a few run ins with the powers that be in Boyles. They create their own markets trying to take on PP....... but don't have the smarts to match it.

When boyles make up their own markets, then these are not covered by any industry price ruling, it is the individual opinion of their trading department.

Last Aug I placed €400 on a horse match bet ( one horse to beat the other) at 6/4 on a race at Wolverhampton. The 'full' price of my horse in the race was 8/1 and the other was 16/1. The 16/1 shot went on to beat my horse and I rang Dervla (the area manager) to ask whether the bet would have been honoured had it have won, or, if there is an error on Boyles side that the bet would be declared 'void'. She said that the horse should have been shorter but that no way was the bet void and in her words "sure you ended up getting great value about a horse that was overpriced". I then asked " so, I would be paid out the 1k had he have won?" and she said "of course". In November I placed €1,000 on a match bet at 6/4. My horse again was 8/1 the horse to beat was 16/1. The bet was placed 10 mins before the off of the race. Nobody from trading rang the shop until 20 yards before the finish of the race ( when my horse was 40L clear) to say that the price was 'wrong' and they were only going to pay me out 1/2. I rang Dervla to ask how this was possible having set her precident from the bet in Aug and she said " I dont remember saying that to you".............

Today I backed a match bet in the 3.40 at stratford. Tisfreetodream, when I placed my bet was 6/1 and my horse, Royal Kicks was 7/1. The match bet was 8/11 Tisfree and 1/1Royal Kicks. I placed €500 on RK at 1/1 and showed the girl the screen the price was on. Placed the bet, went back to my seat and for the next 2 mins the price never changed. I win, go to collect and am told that I was 1m 30secs late for the price!! I told them that this was bull**** and that the price was E's when I placed the bet and for mins after! Rang customer care and they told me that the price had gone from 1/1 to 10/11 and 5/6. I told them that it might have with their trading but the price NEVER changed on screen. They said 'tough' and paid me out 10/11...........

So when Boyles **** up and don't change a price on screen they feel they can make the customer pay because of their inefficiency.

When I take a price it is because I feel it is value at the price I am taking. Not the price that Boyles want to pay out. Why only 10/11? why not pay me out 1/3 as they feel they can do whatever they want!! Also today I had €100 on a dog to finish last at a bags meeting. The dog finished last and when I go to collect they tell me ...AGAIN..... error, that dog should not have been that price.....

They obviously feel they can do whatever they want to their customers even though it is their consistant ineptitude that causes these problems.

Im Only 71Kg

boyles wont take any bets over €5 from me. because i won some money in the past..not much id say €1000 in profit total...they're a joke alright.. i wouldn't give them a penny.

TheMilkyPirate

Boyles are the worst bookies ever.

Why did you keep going to them in fairness??

mailburner

a joke of a bookie
the site is a joke also
stopped betting with them on grand national day when
the site kept crashing and i couldnt get a bet on.
it was a regular thing back then but i kept getting
rubbish excuses from them and ive never even had
an email from them trying to tempt me back
never again and good riddance

UrbanSea

I don't bet with them.
I do avail of their lovely seats in Prospect Hill though when I've gotten a spicy chicken fillet roll with cheese,barbeque sauce and tomatoes on it(butter),with a packet of Tayto and a bottle of Lucozade for 3.99.
I then watch my bets made in PP win all of the time cause I'm class like that. Previously it was my bets done in Celtic,but,alas,no more

bit of a bogey

That is a disgrace alright fish!

They wouldnt take a measly E50 euro from me for the next jock at ballydoyle a few years ago! The girl at the counter rang HQ and would only take E20!

UrbanSea

Jesus that's bad.Who were you going for by the way?

padser

Tried to bet with them on the election a couple of weeks ago.

Wanted to put €50 it on a guy at 33-1 (online). Tried to, they only accepted €9, and then changed the price to 20-1, accepted another €12 at 20-1 and then dropped the price to 14-1.

Seriously, can €21 really have that much of an effect on the price (the price had been stable for at least 48 hours before that and remained at 14-1 for about 1 week afterward, so it was obviously my money moving it)????

[in the interests of full disclosure and before someone who knows me points it out. I work for PP, but the story is true!)

fish86

fish86 wrote: »

Last Aug I placed €400 on a horse match bet ( one horse to beat the other) at 6/4 on a race at Wolverhampton. The 'full' price of my horse in the race was 8/1 and the other was 16/1. The 16/1 shot went on to beat my horse and I rang Dervla (the area manager) to ask whether the bet would have been honoured had it have won, or, if there is an error on Boyles side that the bet would be declared 'void'. She said that the horse should have been shorter but that no way was the bet void and in her words "sure you ended up getting great value about a horse that was overpriced". I then asked " so, I would be paid out the 1k had he have won?" and she said "of course". In November I placed €1,000 on a match bet at 6/4. My horse again was 8/1 the horse to beat was 16/1. The bet was placed 10 mins before the off of the race. Nobody from trading rang the shop until 20 yards before the finish of the race ( when my horse was 40L clear) to say that the price was 'wrong' and they were only going to pay me out 1/2. I rang Dervla to ask how this was possible having set her precident from the bet in Aug and she said " I dont remember saying that to you".............

In fairness you knew full well the bet wouldn't be void but that you would be paid out at the shorter price should it have one. On the docket there is a bit about terms and conditions, have a read off them (they are over in the corner of most shops), it has a bit about mistakes in the odds and how they are not honoured.

Are you betting long? I could understand a novice punter having difficulty understanding this but any one who has been at the game a while should know well that they won't get paid out at mistake odds.

You were hard done by with the evens, 10/11 thing though.

Big Daddy Cool

i won 3,500 from boyles a few years ago, it was a 4 horse e/w accumalator, anyway i went in a couple of months later and backed the czech republic to win euro 2004 with milan baros to be top scorer double that they advertised, the odds were 33-1, the day of the semi final the manager of the shop at the time came over to me and said the bet was'nt valid and that it should'nt have been avertised or accepted by them because of this pearler ''there was a good chance that if they won the tournament, that he would be top scorer' and that they would give me back my stake, i didnt take them up on their offer but lucky for them the czech's were beaten in the semi. i have never stood in a boyles shop again.

brandon_flowers

A Social Welfare recycling facility.

Should really be called SpoilSports.

Morgans

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness you knew full well the bet wouldn't be void but that you would be paid out at the shorter price should it have one. On the docket there is a bit about terms and conditions, have a read off them (they are over in the corner of most shops), it has a bit about mistakes in the odds and how they are not honoured.

Are you betting long? I could understand a novice punter having difficulty understanding this but any one who has been at the game a while should know well that they won't get paid out at mistake odds.

You were hard done by with the evens, 10/11 thing though.

This is incorrect. And is an incorrect reading of the palpable error "rule". This is not a case of a horse at 3/1 being incorrectly taken at 33/1.

In match bets where the prices fluctuates as often as the odds on the board do, but they are not neccessarily related. The prices arent linked to the board price, it is a specific match bet between two runners.

If the price is advertised on the screens, you take the price. If there is some issue with the screens or the match betting not being updated quickly, its not a "palpable" error.

If Kauto Star is in a match bet with Denman and both are priced at 5/6. Kauto Star's price shortens from 8/1 into 4/1. And the match bet is still priced at 5/6. You should be free to take the price at 5/6. If ten seconds after the bet is placed Kauto Star's match bet price goes to 4/6. You should have your bet at 5/6 and not hear any stories of palpable error.

The OP has a point here and its part of the problem of match bets.

Morgans

Big Daddy Cool wrote: »

i won 3,500 from boyles a few years ago, it was a 4 horse e/w accumalator, anyway i went in a couple of months later and backed the czech republic to win euro 2004 with milan baros to be top scorer double that they advertised, the odds were 33-1, the day of the semi final the manager of the shop at the time came over to me and said the bet was'nt valid and that it should'nt have been avertised or accepted by them because of this pearler ''there was a good chance that if they won the tournament, that he would be top scorer' and that they would give me back my stake, i didnt take them up on their offer but lucky for them the czech's were beaten in the semi. i have never stood in a boyles shop again.

If you took two single bets - Baros to be top scorer and Czechs to win the tournament - and doubled them up, then he would have had a point.

If they advertised the special double at 33/1, then I'd have taken it to the small claims court if you won.

I had a bet in Boyles where the named horse won at 3/1. He happened to be joint favourite and manager said that he could only give me half my winnings back cos he was a joint favourite. I told him to ring whatever manager he had or his managers manager. He then gave me my winnings still claiming that he was right. As a friend said afterwards, he could have been having a little scam on the go with unknowing punters.

lou15e

But when the odds are stacked against you with the book maker you dont have a chance

Spoils Sports are a joke

Why not try Forex where the odds are much better

and not with spread better more bookies

UrbanSea

Morgans wrote: »

If you took two single bets - Baros to be top scorer and Czechs to win the tournament - and doubled them up, then he would have had a point.

If they advertised the special double at 33/1, then I'd have taken it to the small claims court if you won.

I had a bet in Boyles where the named horse won at 3/1. He happened to be joint favourite and manager said that he could only give me half my winnings back cos he was a joint favourite. I told him to ring whatever manager he had or his managers manager. He then gave me my winnings still claiming that he was right. As a friend said afterwards, he could have been having a little scam on the go with unknowing punters.

They couldn't make them pay out in the small claims court when gambling debts aren't legally enforceable.

I would have freaked Morgans,trying to be ripped off like that.

Morgans

UrbanSea wrote: »

They couldn't make them pay out in the small claims court when gambling debts are legally enforceable.

I would have freaked Morgans,trying to be ripped off like that.

Yeah. Dead right on that one, reflex action. Joe Duffy would have to get on the case!

UrbanSea

Haha Joe Duffy the girl.

mailburner

Big Daddy Cool wrote: »

i won 3,500 from boyles a few years ago, it was a 4 horse e/w accumalator, anyway i went in a couple of months later and backed the czech republic to win euro 2004 with milan baros to be top scorer double that they advertised, the odds were 33-1, the day of the semi final the manager of the shop at the time came over to me and said the bet was'nt valid and that it should'nt have been avertised or accepted by them because of this pearler ''there was a good chance that if they won the tournament, that he would be top scorer' and that they would give me back my stake, i didnt take them up on their offer but lucky for them the czech's were beaten in the semi. i have never stood in a boyles shop again.

seems crazy odds anyway given i got baros at 50s to be top scorer
and 200/1 on baros/czech rep from a local in galway (when most bookies
were prob going 100/1)
both me and a mate had a fiver on the latter and took time off work
to watch the semis where they dominated greece for the entire match.
i was hurting for days afterwards
my most painful day gambling in 20 years

Big Daddy Cool

mailburner wrote: »

seems crazy odds anyway given i got baros at 50s to be top scorer
and 200/1 on baros/czech rep from a local in galway (when most bookies
were prob going 100/1)
both me and a mate had a fiver on the latter and took time off work
to watch the semis where they dominated greece for the entire match.
i was hurting for days afterwards
my most painful day gambling in 20 years

yeah seems fairly crappy odds alright compared to your's, to be honest i didnt bet on football at the time or do now, i just remember they were playing well and had good players and baros was doing ok for liverpool so i just saw the odds that was on the screen and done the bet

saywhatyousee

I love boylesports only bookies to never have a problem with not like Ladcrooks

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

This is incorrect. And is an incorrect reading of the palpable error "rule". This is not a case of a horse at 3/1 being incorrectly taken at 33/1.

In match bets where the prices fluctuates as often as the odds on the board do, but they are not neccessarily related. The prices arent linked to the board price, it is a specific match bet between two runners.

If the price is advertised on the screens, you take the price. If there is some issue with the screens or the match betting not being updated quickly, its not a "palpable" error.

If Kauto Star is in a match bet with Denman and both are priced at 5/6. Kauto Star's price shortens from 8/1 into 4/1. And the match bet is still priced at 5/6. You should be free to take the price at 5/6. If ten seconds after the bet is placed Kauto Star's match bet price goes to 4/6. You should have your bet at 5/6 and not hear any stories of palpable error.

The OP has a point here and its part of the problem of match bets.

It's not incorrect if an 8/1 and a 16/1 are in a match bet the 8/1 will not ever be 6/4 so it was quite obviously a mistake or error not a slow price update problem related to a market move on one of the horses.

Morgans

RoverJames wrote: »

It's not incorrect if an 8/1 and a 16/1 are in a match bet the 8/1 will not ever be 6/4 so it was quite obviously a mistake or error not a slow price update problem related to a market move on one of the horses.

Ok. Why did the first bet stand?

If two horses were 12/1 opening show, and put up in a match bet at 5/6. One shortens into 8/1 and the other drifts to 16/1. 5/6 still good if the prices are 8/1 and 16/1 at the time.

I had an issue over a horse called Perfect Reward who was punted from 9/4 into 5/4 at Fontwell, and was put up against a pig in a match bet, who opened at 5/4 and drifed to 2s. I took the match bet price (5/4) on screen when Perfect Reward was 2/1. After more than one query with managers I was paid out at 5/4. Even if their SPs would suggest that a 5/4 shot would EVER be 5/4 against a 2/1 shot in a match bet.

UrbanSea

Morgans wrote: »

Ok. Why did the first bet stand?

My arse would they have paid out even though the woman said it.
Double standards,the finest example of it.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

Ok. Why did the first bet stand?.

The first bet wasn't voided, if it had won he wouldn't have gotten 6/4 though despite what the area manager claimed.

In the OP there is no mention of market move that resulted in either horse being 8/1 and 16/1, my reading of it was that the 6/4 matchbet price on the 8/1 was simply a mistake, if the OP can clarify that the horse was 8/1 and the other 16/1 when he got the 6/4 then it's obvious it was and we can disregard all your mumbo jumbo about price moves etc

Morgans

Is the match bet price linked to the board prices? or are you allowed to take the screens at face value. When does a price fluctuation end and a palpable error begin. These arent in the terms and conditions. And there are plenty of anomalies.

And were those who backed the 16/1 horse who won at presumably 1/2 (versus the 8/1 shot at 6/4) paid out at the bigger price.

Palpable error only works one way it seems. Indulge me.

meriwether

RoverJames wrote: »

The first bet wasn't voided, if it had won he wouldn't have gotten 6/4 though despite what the area manager claimed.

In the OP there is no mention of market move that resulted in either horse being 8/1 and 16/1, my reading of it was that the 6/4 matchbet price on the 8/1 was simply a mistake, if the OP can clarify that the horse was 8/1 and the other 16/1 when he got the 6/4 then it's obvious it was and we can disregard all your mumbo jumbo about price moves etc

Why is a price 'wrong'?

And how much due dilligence can a punter do on taking a price, until he realises that a price is 'wrong'?

If its on screen, and you present the bet, have it validaed by the cashier, and pay your money, how can it be 'wrong'? Should he deand an investigation into the bookies software, and/or how responsive price changes are?

This reminds me of the furore therewas about young Lowry winning the Irish open golf a few years ago.
His relation took 3000/1 in PP, which turned out to be 'wrong' because it was 300/1 elsewhere. What makes 300/1 the 'right' price?
If Boylesports go 5/4 on Quevega, when everyone else in 10/11, are Boyles being agressive, or just 'wrong', and will correct the price if she wins.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

And were those who backed the 16/1 horse who won at presumably 1/2 (versus the 8/1 shot at 6/4) paid out at the bigger price.

Palpable error only works one way it seems. Indulge me.

Who said the 16/1 shot was 1/2 ? The OP didn't
When he backed the 8/1 shot in the match bet at 6/4 to beat the 16/1 shot he was chancing his arm, if he wasn't why the f&&& did he ring the area manager so see was his bet voided?

meriwether

meriwether wrote: »

Why is a price 'wrong'?

And how much due dilligence can a punter do on taking a price, until he realises that a price is 'wrong'?

If in a match bet the 8/1 shot is odds against when the other horse is a 16/1 shot the price is clearly wrong, in a teo horse race the fav will not be odds against,anyone who cannot figure that out shouldn't be in a betting office.

I'm not a bookie, but lads clutching at straws and complaining about bookies etc is a joke. Match bets no value whatsoever.

meriwether

Morgans wrote: »

Is the match bet price linked to the board prices? or are you allowed to take the screens at face value. When does a price fluctuation end and a palpable error begin. These arent in the terms and conditions. And there are plenty of anomalies.

And were those who backed the 16/1 horse who won at presumably 1/2 (versus the 8/1 shot at 6/4) paid out at the bigger price.

Palpable error only works one way it seems. Indulge me.

Exactly. And how does one protect oneself against said error? Do you demand a written contract from the bookie that the price on screen, which has also been seen by the cashier, and the bet struck while the price is still on-screen, is 'right'?

Should you ask a bookie 'is this price wrong and do you have a problem with your software or screens, or are you intent on laying top price against your competitors'?

Its bull, and Boyles are an excuse for a bookmaker.

Morgans

RoverJames wrote: »

Who said the 16/1 shot was 1/2 ? The OP didn't
When he backed the 8/1 shot in the match bet at 6/4 to beat the 16/1 shot he was chancing his arm, if he wasn't why the f&&& did he ring the area manager so see was his bet voided?

Well, if it was a match bet, and one horse is 6/4, the other horse is between 4/7 and 1/2. That's the way match bets are priced up.

Anything bigger and the bookies cant win.

So, those who backed the 16/1 horse at 1/2 or 4/7 should in fact have their bet settled at 6/4 match bet - given that the principle that they have made an error in the pricing. I wonder if Boylesports settled the bets at 1/2 or the correct price of 6/4.

If both horses were odds against 6/4 and 3/1, then its a clear error.

meriwether

RoverJames wrote: »

If in a match bet the 8/1 shot is odds against when the other horse is a 16/1 shot the price is clearly wrong, in a teo horse race the fav will not be odds against,anyone who cannot figure that out shouldn't be in a betting office..

That’s not the sole example of an ‘error’. There are many others.

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm not a bookie.

I'd be confident thats right.

RoverJames wrote: »

but lads clutching at straws and complaining about bookies etc is a joke.

A certain spect of the bookmaking industry. I understand you're probably attempting to paint us as embittered know-nothings blaming the bookies for all our misfortune when its really our fault. It very weak.

RoverJames wrote: »

Match bets no value whatsoever.

A ridiculous statement. There may well be value in a match bet. Depends on circumstances.

Morgans

RoverJames wrote: »

If in a match bet the 8/1 shot is odds against when the other horse is a 16/1 shot the price is clearly wrong, in a teo horse race the fav will not be odds against.

Yes, the 16/1 shot would be 1/2 - definitely bigger than 4/6 - if the second horse was 6/4. This was a clear mistake. Anyone betting on it would have been entitled to a far bigger price. I wonder if the punters could claim palpable error on their slip.

UrbanSea

I think match bets can be great value. Got 2/1 on a horse before against a 1/3 shot. The 1/3 wouldn't go into the stalls and acted up big time,ran up and got it on. 1/3 missed the kick and finished about ten lengths behind mine.

meriwether

meriwether wrote: »

That’s not the sole example of an ‘error’. There are many others.


.

So in this case do you reckon it was a smack in the face glaring error or not ?

Hulk Hands

UrbanSea wrote: »

I don't bet with them.
I do avail of their lovely seats in Prospect Hill though when I've gotten a spicy chicken fillet roll with cheese,barbeque sauce and tomatoes on it(butter),with a packet of Tayto and a bottle of Lucozade for 3.99.
I then watch my bets made in PP win all of the time cause I'm class like that. Previously it was my bets done in Celtic,but,alas,no more

We've surely ran into one another a few times

Ive that swing route from Vivo for food, Paddy's to bet and Boyle's to watch the football and racing simultaneously countless times!

UrbanSea

Hulk Hands wrote: »

We've surely ran into one another a few times

Ive that swing route from Vivo for food, Paddy's to bet and Boyle's to watch the football and racing simultaneously countless times!

Is that what it's called,Vivo? I thought it was Gala?.
When were you in PP last,we probably have :pac:

Hulk Hands

Ah, a blow in....it'll always be known as vivo to us old galweigiens (i'm 21 btw :pac:)

Or Free-vo would be a common name after nights out too among some of those without drunken morales

UrbanSea

Hulk what do you look like I'll keep an eye out for you

Deisekickboxing

:mad:

ok saw these bets on screen yesterday so i picked four of them( all odds on) in different races and done a 4 bet accum. came up and went in to collect in the evening...expecting 130€ got 18€
why?

they said those bets were singles only!

checked the screen and nowhere did it say singles only or other terms and conditions and anyway they took the bet...
never will they get even a € off me again....

UrbanSea

What is the actual bet? Was it pick a winner at each meeting or something?

NewApproach

UrbanSea wrote: »

I don't bet with them.
I do avail of their lovely seats in Prospect Hill though when I've gotten a spicy chicken fillet roll with cheese,barbeque sauce and tomatoes on it(butter),with a packet of Tayto and a bottle of Lucozade for 3.99.
I then watch my bets made in PP win all of the time cause I'm class like that. Previously it was my bets done in Celtic,but,alas,no more

LOL, I do exactly this.

Except I get coleslaw, stuffing and tomatoes

UrbanSea

Ew,coleslaw. And do they charge extra for the extra salad?

convert

I think this thread could continue in a similar vain ad infinitum so I think we'll leave it there.

Thread closed.