New Centre Partnership for Ireland

flyingoutside

I really think that D'arcy and BOD aren't working for Ireland at the moment and that we really need a new partnership.

I think D'arcy has to go and bring in McFadden or Fitzgerald as he is wasted at fullback and useless. or move BOD to 12 and maybe Bowe in 13.

Any ideas lads?

tolosenc

No, they're fine. Leave them be.

Amazotheamazing

Seemingly it's too close to the RWC to try anything new. It's certainly worth trying McFadden or Fitz, could they be worse than d'Arcy or Wallace?

There's finally some 12's appearing so we might actually be in a position to drop d'Arcy and P. Wallace by this time next year. Guys like McFadden, O'Malley, Spence and Luke Marshall have looked good this season. Obviously, the latter three won't get into the RWC squad but thy could be bolters for next year's 6 nations.

Much further down the line, has McKinley ever played 12 (iirc he's played 13 for UCD), big guy who looks to be able to play and distribute, should be looked at 12 as a 2nd 5/8th as per the SH.

sock puppet

I don't think Fitzgerlad is wasted at fullback. No other Irish fullback would have made the try scoring chance he did against Wales and he's had other great bits of play. The problem imo is his poor form and his fielding. If he played there for Leinster consistently I think he could develop into a very good fullback.

kevin99

If Kidney has the courage he will drop both centres for the England game next Saturday and replace them with Bowe and either Wallace or McFadden. We will see how the new centre partnership copes under pressure in such a big game.
No point in making changes for the pre world cup friendlies as players won't be going full tilt for fear of sustaining injury.
Kidney has to make a number of changes for Saturday's game.
He should have used the Six Nations to blood new players and try different combinations.

Cpt_Blackbeard

BOD will never be dropped, but he seriously needs to up his game and play like a captain. Its pretty telling that POC was the one giving the talks in the final few minutes to try and inspire a win.

Even with all of D'Arcy's recent failings aside, he isn't good enough for international level at present. He takes way too much out of the ball when the gameplan should be give it to Bowe/Earls in space. He is currently there just for his defense, we could easily stick any backrow in ahead of him and we would be better in defense and possible better going forward too.

Something different needs to be tried in the centre. BOD and Earls/Bowe or McFadden and BOD would be my choice.

tolosenc

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Guys like McFadden, O'Malley, Spence and Luke Marshall have looked good this season. Obviously, the latter three won't get into the RWC squad

I suggested back during the AIs that McFadden should go to NZ and was laughed at. I wouldn't rule anyone out.

bamboozle

if we want to see our centre's playing well then they need to receive quality attacking ball. We need to see less of POC, DOC and Best trying to carry the ball around the fringes and more quick ruck ball distributed to our backs.

as it stands the more POC carries ball off the scrum halfs shoulder with his head down into contact the more time this gives opposition defence to realign, once they are realigned we cant expect our centres to do much if there is no space to exploit.

we need to speed up our game, the focus of our attacks and the way we use runners off rucks, if we dont it wont matter who we have in the center.

molloyjh

sock puppet wrote: »

I don't think Fitzgerlad is wasted at fullback. No other Irish fullback would have made the try scoring chance he did against Wales and he's had other great bits of play. The problem imo is his poor form and his fielding. If he played there for Leinster consistently I think he could develop into a very good fullback.

I think it really needs to be pointed out that Fitzy is not only just back from injury but that he also has only played a handful of games at FB so far. He came back from injury in January and played on the wing against Sarries and Racing anyway. He played FB against Ospreys then too.

So before the tournament he'd gotten 3 games in and only 1 at FB. Add that to the 4 he now has for Ireland and that's a grand total of 5 games at FB all season and only 8 games in total since returning from injury. We can't expect him to be a world class FB at the drop of a hat.

irishbucsfan

I remember back in our fantastic Grand Slam winning year of 2009 (a different age) we had a great inside center called Paddy Wallace. He was fantastic at putting other players into space.

Back in those days we had a lad called Ronan O'Gara at outhalf. He was one of the best out halves this country ever had, but he was quite limited when it came to his distribution at the point of attack. Paddy Wallace balanced him perfectly because even though O'Gara couldn't take the ball to the line or create as well as some, Wallace was an expert at it. Wallace was also fairly nimble himself and a faultless defender. Actually another reason I suppose he was so succesful was because he had a very good relationship with the great Brian O'Driscoll, as they had won an Under-19 World Cup together in their youth.

If only we still had players like that.

profitius

Fitzgerald have been very poor at fullback and seems to crumble under pressure. He's been a disasterzone in this years 6N. He just isn't reliable enough to play fullback.

He has made little impact for Ireland in his 20 caps. He was solid on the wing without being spectacular like Ian Dowling (who Leinster fans don't rate) is for Munster.

He has talent no doubt but overall he doesn't look like an international class player. You can only make excuses for somebody for a certain period of time. Keith Earls has kicked on and grown as an international but Fitz has not despite being around for longer.

flyingoutside

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I remember back in our fantastic Grand Slam winning year of 2009 (a different age) we had a great inside center called Paddy Wallace. He was fantastic at putting other players into space.

Back in those days we had a lad called Ronan O'Gara at outhalf. He was one of the best out halves this country ever had, but he was quite limited when it came to his distribution at the point of attack. Paddy Wallace balanced him perfectly because even though O'Gara couldn't take the ball to the line or create as well as some, Wallace was an expert at it. Wallace was also fairly nimble himself and a faultless defender. Actually another reason I suppose he was so succesful was because he had a very good relationship with the great Brian O'Driscoll, as they had won an Under-19 World Cup together in their youth.

If only we still had players like that.

If they could play as well as they did then there would be no problem but that's obvoiusly not the case

totallegend

profitius wrote: »

Fitzgerald have been very poor at fullback and seems to crumble under pressure. He's been a disasterzone in this years 6N. He just isn't reliable enough to play fullback.

He has made little impact for Ireland in his 20 caps. He was solid on the wing without being spectacular like Ian Dowling (who Leinster fans don't rate) is for Munster.

He has talent no doubt but overall he doesn't look like an international class player. You can only make excuses for somebody for a certain period of time. Keith Earls has kicked on and grown as an international but Fitz has not despite being around for longer.

Your first paragraph is correct. Your comparison of Fitzgerald with Dowling is not, they are light years apart in terms of ability.

Yes, Earls has played better for Ireland this year, but he's being played in his best position. Fitzgerald wanted to play fullback, he got his wish, it hasn't panned out and the experiment should be ended, but he's still one of the best wingers we have. They've been around for the same length of time, no? Certainly played on the same u-20 team.

In terms of the new centre partnership, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll still have plenty to offer. D'Arcy was one of our best players in the Autumn games and has been playing really well for Leinster, so he's not finished by any means. Maybe he just needs a break? Either way, I'd rest/drop him against England, give McFadden another go and maybe it would give D'Arcy a kick up the ass.

The notion of moving O'Driscoll to 12 gets floated every now and again, but I always think you should play your best players in their best positions, which means O'Driscoll at 13, leaving Bowe at 14 and praying Kearney and Murphy are fit for the World Cup.

ilovelamp2000

I definitely think we need to change things up in the centre, for me you need a 12 who can straighten the line and get over the gain line on crash ball when needed and a 13 with enough pace to be able to break to the outside and beat a man otherwise your backline play will lack incisiveness, as ours currently does.

The problem is we don't have a huge amount of options. I loathe the "second outhalf" type of first centre because it usually leaves you with another back who doesn't carry ball well.

In the short term I would be looking to move O'Driscoll inside to 12 and Earls inside to play at 13.

irishbucsfan

flyingoutside wrote: »

If they could play as well as they did then there would be no problem but that's obvoiusly not the case

How do you know how well Wallace can play? He hasn't been given a chance.

vetinari

I'd start McFadden ahead of Darcy. BOD is playing well enough (its just theres such high expectations for him). The partnership is not working though, that leaves Darcy who's been sluggish at best.

mrboswell

In reality Kidney will stick with the current set up.

Long term (next WC) BOD, D'Arcy and Wallace should all be out of the picture.

Best of the new breed are clearly McFadden and Marshal.

I've only ever seen Marshal up close in one match but he is quality.

Getting the balance right is key and I think moving forward we really need a 12 that can break first tackle and off load. Haven't seen too much of that from D'Arcy in the past 2 seasons.

Jemo

Our problems in the centre stem from the tactics we are using. We are choosing to play a slow fringe style attack so that means you need someone who is able to clean up **** ball at 12. The only Irish player capable of doing so whilst on the back foot is D'arcy. Paddy Wallace is a useful player but he is not at the same level as D'arcy, McFadden, or O'Malley as a 12. We need to get POC/DOC/Best off the ball and into the rucks and get SOB/Jamie/Wally/Healy carrying from 2nd and third phase quick ball. Either that or pick Isaac Boss who is the only Irish scrumhalf who can make something of the fringe attack.

irishbucsfan

Jemo wrote: »

Our problems in the centre stem from the tactics we are using. We are choosing to play a slow fringe style attack so that means you need someone who is able to clean up **** ball at 12. The only Irish player capable of doing so whilst on the back foot is D'arcy. Paddy Wallace is a useful player but he is not at the same level as D'arcy, McFadden, or O'Malley as a 12. We need to get POC/DOC/Best off the ball and into the rucks and get SOB/Jamie/Wally/Healy carrying from 2nd and third phase quick ball. Either that or pick Isaac Boss who is the only Irish scrumhalf who can make something of the fringe attack.

I really don't believe you watch much of Wallace. Or Leinster for that matter if you think O'Malley has shown anything at 12 since turning pro!

Wallace is a top class 12. D'Arcy was as well, but he's not in form so he has to be taken out of the team. McFadden would be my selection, but he's played all of his top class rugby on the wing and I'd like to see him return to center at a higher level before putting him in the team there. I can't understand why he hasn't been in the 22 jersey...

It really is crazy to say that McFadden or O'Malley are better at 12 than Paddy Wallace, when neither have even started in a H Cup game in that position, and O'Malley hasn't played there since Schmidt took over (even under Cheika I think his last game at 12 was the debacle against the Dragons?)!


Either way something needs to be done with Wallace. Start him or drop him because he's a waste when wearing 22.

bamboozle

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really don't believe you watch much of Wallace. Or Leinster for that matter if you think O'Malley has shown anything at 12 since turning pro!

Wallace is a top class 12. D'Arcy was as well, but he's not in form so he has to be taken out of the team. McFadden would be my selection, but he's played all of his top class rugby on the wing and I'd like to see him return to center at a higher level before putting him in the team there. I can't understand why he hasn't been in the 22 jersey...

It really is crazy to say that McFadden or O'Malley are better at 12 than Paddy Wallace, when neither have even started in a H Cup game in that position, and O'Malley hasn't played there since Schmidt took over (even under Cheika I think his last game at 12 was the debacle against the Dragons?)!


Either way something needs to be done with Wallace. Start him or drop him because he's a waste when wearing 22.

he played inside center against Cardiff last month with sheridan outside him.

irishbucsfan

bamboozle wrote: »

he played inside center against Cardiff last month with sheridan outside him.

Oh yes, you're right

Jemo

[QUOTE=irishbucsfan;71164198
It really is crazy to say that McFadden or O'Malley are better at 12 than Paddy Wallace, when neither have even started in a H Cup game in that position, and O'Malley hasn't played there since Schmidt took over (even under Cheika I think his last game at 12 was the debacle against the Dragons?)!
.[/QUOTE]

I would have to disagree, a players jersey number doesn't determine their position alone. When O'Malley plays 13 for Leinster he plays primarily at first or second receiver and takes most of the muck ball up to the gain line. I don't want Paddy Wallace at 12 for Ireland because I prefer players who work well in heavy traffic at 12 and who can make line breaks often even if the ball coming out is bad. Wallace can break but to a much lesser extent than the others. He is not a second 5/8th because his kicking is not superb and his distribution is not all its made out to be. Hes a good player, but I don't think he is up to scratch as an international player, he lacks that extra few yards that set international players apart. McFadden has that and O'Malley is well on his way to having it.

bamboozle

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Oh yes, you're right

and shane moore played in the center in the U19's world cup with BOD, Wallace was at 10....

doesnt matter a jot tho who we play at 12 if our backs continue to get rubbish slow ball from our pack.

vetinari

My main reason for ignoring Wallace is his age. He's what 30. In the forwards you can get away with older players but in the packs, you really want younger players. There's always the exception but players get slower as they age. Let's face it, the main reason you're not seeing line breaks from our centers is that the pace ain't there.

Ciaran-Irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

BOD will never be dropped, but he seriously needs to up his game and play like a captain. Its pretty telling that POC was the one giving the talks in the final few minutes to try and inspire a win.

Brian O'Driscoll has said on many occasions that he isn't the one that does inspirational speeches. He leaves that to O'Connell and others that are good at that.

A captain's role goes far beyond giving inspirational speeches. For example, O'Connell is poor at communicating with referees, and often gets on their nerves. O'Connell also has a tendency to get so fired up in the game that he doesn't make the best decision when deciding to go for points or for the corner, which is why ROG makes those calls for Munster.

Both are outstanding leaders, as are ROG, Best, Heaslip & Cullen, but they all have different leadership strengths.

sock puppet

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

The problem is we don't have a huge amount of options. I loathe the "second outhalf" type of first centre because it usually leaves you with another back who doesn't carry ball well.

It depends imo. There's a difference between a playmaking 12 like Mauger and an outhalf shoehorned into inside centre like England tried with Flood.

Ciaran-Irl

My own personal choice for the backline would be:

11. Fitzgerald
12. O'Driscoll
13. Bowe
14. Horgan (if he is fit again, otherwise McFadden)
15. Earls

McFadden or Trimble at 22.

If you look at Ireland's try, Bowe and O'Driscoll were essentially acting like a 12 / 13 partnership. I'm a massive fan of D'Arcy's, but he isn't creating enough in attack right now, so it is worth trying something new for this game.

Podge_irl

Think people are being a bit harsh on Wallace. He came in cold after having sat on the bench for 313 minutes of the 6N til then. He also came in out of position at full back. He shouldn't have been on the bench in the first place, but that's not his fault. He made a mistake, but it was no worse then what happened to Cronin against France (actually it wasn't as bad as we kept possession then fecked it up right afterwards if I recall correctly).

He's a good 12. Would like to see him with Sexton

swan82

The problem with McFadden at 12 is he is very like Darcy.I would like us to play with a 2nd 5 but Wallace defence isnt that good and personally I dont really rate him.

Even though Leinster play him at 13 for some reason,Eoin O'malley is the exact sort of 12 we need.He is a 10/12 and so is very creative.

He looks a very good player to me and he did well against Clermont,defending against Rougerie while playing in the hardest defensive position on the pitch 13.

No reason why he couldnt be given a shot.

Jemo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Think people are being a bit harsh on Wallace. He came in cold after having sat on the bench for 313 minutes of the 6N til then. He also came in out of position at full back. He shouldn't have been on the bench in the first place, but that's not his fault. He made a mistake, but it was no worse then what happened to Cronin against France (actually it wasn't as bad as we kept possession then fecked it up right afterwards if I recall correctly).

He's a good 12. Would like to see him with Sexton

I wouldn't hold that against him, I personally just prefer a different style of 12. For what its worth, he must be frustrated in his current situation, he like Leo Cullen seems to be deemed good enough for the bench but not good enough to be given more than a few minutes at the end. He could work well with Sexton but I don't think so as Sexton tends to like to do the distribution himself and does so very well using strong runners as dummies, shields and loopers. I'm certainly open to given the partnership a go though.

sock puppet

Jemo wrote: »

I wouldn't hold that against him, I personally just prefer a different style of 12. For what its worth, he must be frustrated in his current situation, he like Leo Cullen seems to be deemed good enough for the bench but not good enough to be given more than a few minutes at the end.

I was actually thinking about this the other day. I can't think of any other player in the world who's been such a regular in the matchday 22 but has received so few caps.

CatFromHue

id love to see the stats on how many rucks and mauls darcy was in.

he really does seem to be alot of rucks.

could this be related to our back row make up as pointed out by the rte panel. certainly against italy it looked like our centre were doing too much rucking. the same players have played all the games since.

other than his missed tackle on rougerie his defence has been pretty good. its his offence and ball handling thats been poor.

Dr.Evil

I would like the idea of seeing Bowe at 13 with O'Driscoll inside him. I know O'Driscoll has been arguably Ireland's best ever player at the position, but as he ages and loses pace slightly, playing 12 could be just as good for him. He's definitely still physical enough and creative enough, and Bowe running a hard inside line on his shoulder could work wonders. Just a concept that could be worth a shot I think. Earls, Fitzgerald and Kearney can still make up the back three. With players like Trimble, even McFadden, and more who can come in there.

Stev_o

CatFromHue wrote: »

id love to see the stats on how many rucks and mauls darcy was in.

he really does seem to be alot of rucks.

could this be related to our back row make up as pointed out by the rte panel. certainly against italy it looked like our centre were doing too much rucking. the same players have played all the games since.

other than his missed tackle on rougerie his defence has been pretty good. its his offence and ball handling thats been poor.

He's been selected to get over the gain line which he hasn't done. He offers no outside break, and no distribution skills. The game has moved on. If your going to have a mundane midfield your going to have to make up for it with a very very good 9 10 combo with wingers looking for work.

On the flip side look at S15 at the moment and see how the Crusaders are using SBW and Fruean. Two huge men who spend most of their time making space for others with their hands rather then their body.

I also think that our pack just doesn't work. Too many ball carriers not enough hard workers. For a start Healy needs to be reminded that while it's fantastic that he's a great ball carrier he needs to be the one clearing out ball and not be waiting at 1st Receiver when you NEED your playmakers there. Guys like Dom Ryan who will do the Worsley job or Jennings will give us quick ball.

What i can't stand is the amount of times we'v had 5 forwards in the backline waiting to get hold of the ball and not on the deck clearing it out.

profitius

totallegend wrote: »

Your first paragraph is correct. Your comparison of Fitzgerald with Dowling is not, they are light years apart in terms of ability.

Yes, Earls has played better for Ireland this year, but he's being played in his best position. Fitzgerald wanted to play fullback, he got his wish, it hasn't panned out and the experiment should be ended, but he's still one of the best wingers we have. They've been around for the same length of time, no? Certainly played on the same u-20 team.

Fitz is more talented than Dowling but it doesn't mean hes a better player. He's not free scoring and Dowling makes very few mistakes.

Fitz was playing professional a few years before Earls. Kidney kept Earls back. I think Fitz is making loads of basic errors that has nothing to do with position.

I've been very disappointed by Fitz for failing to live up to his potential. He seems like a very nice person and well spoken etc but he needs to start performing. At the moment he doesn't deserve his Ireland place.

CatFromHue

Stev_o wrote: »

He's been selected to get over the gain line which he hasn't done. He offers no outside break, and no distribution skills. The game has moved on. If your going to have a mundane midfield your going to have to make up for it with a very very good 9 10 combo with wingers looking for work.

On the flip side look at S15 at the moment and see how the Crusaders are using SBW and Fruean. Two huge men who spend most of their time making space for others with their hands rather then their body.

I also think that our pack just doesn't work. Too many ball carriers not enough hard workers. For a start Healy needs to be reminded that while it's fantastic that he's a great ball carrier he needs to be the one clearing out ball and not be waiting at 1st Receiver when you NEED your playmakers there. Guys like Dom Ryan who will do the Worsley job or Jennings will give us quick ball.

What i can't stand is the amount of times we'v had 5 forwards in the backline waiting to get hold of the ball and not on the deck clearing it out.

i agree i would have been happy if wallace had come in for darcy after the italian or french games.

i do think the amount of time he spends in rucks and the amount of times our forwards are out in the backline are very much related.

as others have pointed out mcfadden and darcy are kinda similar players.

people have mentioned downey as well but look at how our defence dealt with big crash em up guys like davies and roberts. i dont remember them getting over the gain line at all.

you mention sonny bill and freun and they are monsters in comparison to our lads but in the game against nz in the autumn sonny bill was dealt with by our guys.

luke fitz has been tried at 12 and it didnt work out so we've worked our way back to wallace!

ilovelamp2000

sock puppet wrote: »

It depends imo. There's a difference between a playmaking 12 like Mauger and an outhalf shoehorned into inside centre like England tried with Flood.

I agree, but I don't think there's much of a difference between Wallace and an outhalf shoehorned into inside centre. So I wouldn't have him in the squad.

[Jackass]

kevin99 wrote: »

If Kidney has the courage he will drop both centres for the England game next Saturday and replace them with Bowe and either Wallace or McFadden. We will see how the new centre partnership copes under pressure in such a big game.
No point in making changes for the pre world cup friendlies as players won't be going full tilt for fear of sustaining injury.
Kidney has to make a number of changes for Saturday's game.
He should have used the Six Nations to blood new players and try different combinations.

Seeing as the championship is now over for us and there is absolutely nothing at stake against England, other than a last golden oppertunity to try out some players in a competetive match for the last time before the world cup, I'd imagine this would be the perfect oppertunity to take a look at John Hayes from Munster at tight head ahead of the world cup.

Other than that it would be absolutely phenominally stupid to drop any of the player from the gallant and superb losing performance against Wales, it's just a shame Anthony Foley is retired, as I wouldn't mind seeing him at 8.

roycon

i think both darcy and odriscoll are better than shontayne hape and tindall to be honest but having said that id start mcfadden ahead of darcy. much stronger in defence but id rate the two players the same everything else

bamboozle

our centres and D'arcy's role were raised on off the ball last night and both Liam Toland and Matt Williams were in agreement, firstly the role Darcy plays is to make the hard yards, unfortunately the way our pack are playing (ie at best providing slow ruck ball to our backs) means any time Darcy receives the ball opposition defences have 2 and 3 men bearing down on him.

how we use our ball has to be smarter and defined, something Williams was saying doesnt seem to be happening, our tight 5 need to be focusing on hitting rucks and mauls and providing quick ruck ball for scrum half, our main ball carriers SOB, Wallace & Heaslip have to be utilised efficiently ie them receiving ball in the centre or further out wide.

Kidney's game plan has us playing this dreadfully ugly game where we see POC & co taking pop passes off rucks in the 10 channel where they are being met by 2 and 3 defenders, the resulting ruck ball is so slow opposition defenders have realigned.

GT in the Irish times yesterday said we had 32 phases of posession of the ball in the welsh 22 & scored 1 try - this surely is an indication that the manner in which we are attacking in the red zone is not working.

kevin99

profitius wrote: »

Fitzgerald have been very poor at fullback and seems to crumble under pressure. He's been a disasterzone in this years 6N. He just isn't reliable enough to play fullback.

He has made little impact for Ireland in his 20 caps. He was solid on the wing without being spectacular like Ian Dowling (who Leinster fans don't rate) is for Munster.

He has talent no doubt but overall he doesn't look like an international class player. You can only make excuses for somebody for a certain period of time. Keith Earls has kicked on and grown as an international but Fitz has not despite being around for longer.

Your opinion of Fitzgerald differs markedly from that of Wales winger, Shane Williams, former Welsh winger, JJ Williams and outhalf Jonathan Davies, Philip Matthews and Jeremy Guscott. All of the aforementioned were excellent players for their respective countries and every one of them has praised Fitzgerald's talents.

He would never have been played at full back had Kearney or Geordon Murphy not been injured. He is a classy player but is still very young and inexperienced. To expect him to settle into the full back position and excel and come into an attacking line hasn't happened because of the Irish backline not receiving the ball quickly enough.

kevin99

roycon wrote: »

i think both darcy and odriscoll are better than shontayne hape and tindall to be honest but having said that id start mcfadden ahead of darcy. much stronger in defence but id rate the two players the same everything else

I agree. But I would like to see Bowe and McFadden in the centre positions against a big opposition side. Italy will be huge and brimming with confidence after their moral victory over Ireland in Rome.

BOD and D'Arcy are not clicking well and a change is needed.

profitius

kevin99 wrote: »

Your opinion of Fitzgerald differs markedly from that of Wales winger, Shane Williams, former Welsh winger, JJ Williams and outhalf Jonathan Davies, Philip Matthews and Jeremy Guscott. All of the aforementioned were excellent players for their respective countries and every one of them has praised Fitzgerald's talents.

He would never have been played at full back had Kearney or Geordon Murphy not been injured. He is a classy player but is still very young and inexperienced. To expect him to settle into the full back position and excel and come into an attacking line hasn't happened because of the Irish backline not receiving the ball quickly enough.

I've been praising him for years. Talented players didn't always make it for various reasons.

He's certainly not very young and inexperienced. He's been playing professional rugby since he was in his teens.

whysomoody

Why does everyone keep saying Wallace is a bad tackler?

TheRevolution

profitius wrote: »

Fitz is more talented than Dowling but it doesn't mean hes a better player. He's not free scoring and Dowling makes very few mistakes.

LOL. I just want to be clear.. are you saying Ian Dowling is a better player than Luke Fitzgerald?

Fitz was playing professional a few years before Earls. Kidney kept Earls back. I think Fitz is making loads of basic errors that has nothing to do with position.

What errors has he made that weren't down to his position? The only mistakes Fitzgerald has made were under high ball.

I've been very disappointed by Fitz for failing to live up to his potential. He seems like a very nice person and well spoken etc but he needs to start performing. At the moment he doesn't deserve his Ireland place.

Hes a Lions test player. Hes being played out of position. Talk about an overreaction.

TheRevolution

profitius wrote: »

I've been praising him for years. Talented players didn't always make it for various reasons.

He's certainly not very young and inexperienced. He's been playing professional rugby since he was in his teens.

Can you give me one game where he performed poorly for Ireland when he wasn't played out of position? Please do. He HAS already made it. He is a Lion, ML winner, HC winner, GS winner. He has made it in the domestic league, in the european cup, in the international realm and even for the Lions. 2 or 3 bad games playing out of position and coming back from a near career ending injury doesn't change that. Especially when the chap has just turned 23.

Talk about being absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

profitius

TheRevolution wrote: »

Can you give me one game where he performed poorly for Ireland when he wasn't played out of position? Please do. He HAS already made it. He is a Lion, ML winner, HC winner, GS winner. He has made it in the domestic league, in the european cup, in the international realm and even for the Lions. 2 or 3 bad games playing out of position and coming back from a near career ending injury doesn't change that. Especially when the chap has just turned 23.

Talk about being absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Its not being ridiculous. How many tries has he for Ireland? I heard it was 2 in 20 games but I'm not sure. I know he hardly ever scores though for somebody who is rated so highly.

I think us Irish are always overrating our players. We do have plenty who live up to expectations but some more who don't.

Cpt_Blackbeard

TheRevolution wrote: »

Can you give me one game where he performed poorly for Ireland when he wasn't played out of position? Please do. He HAS already made it. He is a Lion, ML winner, HC winner, GS winner. He has made it in the domestic league, in the european cup, in the international realm and even for the Lions. 2 or 3 bad games playing out of position and coming back from a near career ending injury doesn't change that. Especially when the chap has just turned 23.

Talk about being absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

2 trys in 20 international caps doesn't tell the story of a player who has played very well as an international winger either.

He is an extremely talented player but seems to be missing the the necessary skills to make himself a top international player. He doesn't have the pace/finishing ability to warrant a start ahead of Bowe/Earls, he never really worked out in the centre as many would have expected and isn't good enough under the highball to make the 15 jersey his own.

jacothelad

profitius wrote: »

Fitzgerald have been very poor at fullback and seems to crumble under pressure. He's been a disasterzone in this years 6N. He just isn't reliable enough to play fullback.

He has made little impact for Ireland in his 20 caps. He was solid on the wing without being spectacular like Ian Dowling (who Leinster fans don't rate) is for Munster.

He has talent no doubt but overall he doesn't look like an international class player. You can only make excuses for somebody for a certain period of time. Keith Earls has kicked on and grown as an international but Fitz has not despite being around for longer.

Maybe he isn't as talented as some would claim. I thought he looked very promising when he burst on the scene. I didn't think he was the 'wunderkind' that the papers and some hysterical fans claimed but he had that certain eye-catching something. He has been o.k. for Leinster and deserved his place and his medals etc. I also don't think he is an international quality player. He isn't lightning fast, his kicking from hand is very erratic and his tackling has left a bit to be desired this season.

swan82 wrote: »

The problem with McFadden at 12 is he is very like Darcy.I would like us to play with a 2nd 5 but Wallace defence isnt that good and personally I dont really rate him.

Wallace's defence is first rate. He rarely misses a tackle. You obviously don't watch him and are simply being judgemental without evidence.

whysomoody wrote: »

Why does everyone keep saying Wallace is a bad tackler?

It's strange, isn't it? Mostly those who simply don't want him there for some reason other than his ability perhaps. There are other reasons perhaps for judging a player, including Wallace but simply imagining flaws isn't a good one.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

2 trys in 20 international caps doesn't tell the story of a player who has played very well as an international winger either.

He is an extremely talented player but seems to be missing the the necessary skills to make himself a top international player. He doesn't have the pace/finishing ability to warrant a start ahead of Bowe/Earls, he never really worked out in the centre as many would have expected and isn't good enough under the highball to make the 15 jersey his own.

I agree 100%. He isn't quick enough and he continually over-runs passes as a supporting player. He can't catch consistently enough, his judgement is iffy and his kicking is actually a bit embarassing for a guy with his 'pedigree'.

twinytwo

[Jackass] wrote: »

Seeing as the championship is now over for us and there is absolutely nothing at stake against England, other than a last golden oppertunity to try out some players in a competetive match for the last time before the world cup, I'd imagine this would be the perfect oppertunity to take a look at John Hayes from Munster at tight head ahead of the world cup.

Other than that it would be absolutely phenominally stupid to drop any of the player from the gallant and superb losing performance against Wales, it's just a shame Anthony Foley is retired, as I wouldn't mind seeing him at 8.

Eh... pride i for one do not want to lose to england in dublin...

TheRevolution

profitius wrote: »

Its not being ridiculous. How many tries has he for Ireland? I heard it was 2 in 20 games but I'm not sure. I know he hardly ever scores though for somebody who is rated so highly.

I think us Irish are always overrating our players. We do have plenty who live up to expectations but some more who don't.

He hasn't played 20 games on the wing. He has played 20 games on the wing, at full back and at first centre. He played on the wing when Ireland were averaging a try a game in fairness. You aren't a starting wing for the HC champions, GS Champions and the Lions without being highly rated.