My sister has that Munchausen by proxy I think..

LegacyUser

i think.

I am very concerned for my 2yr old niece. My sister (who hasn't been diagnosed with Munchausens) has had her 2yr old at the doctor at least 50 times in the past 2yrs. There is nothing wrong with the child - yes she has had the odd cold/bug and perhaps a few of her visits to the gp were required, but each time she brings her to the doctor, she's all over fb, telling everyone her baby is ill. She fought with our gp to get her tonsils out for about 6 months, until she finally took no for an answer when my gp kept telling her the child didn't need her tonsils out.

This was kind of a bit of a joke in our home (my sister still lives at home with me and my mam and my brother) for the first 6 months when the baby was born...but it has now gone beyond a joke. she has now decided that my niece has aspergers or autism or adhd - one of those 'illnesses' that are quite hard to diagnose, particularly in a 2yr old. She brought her to the gp recently, and told the gp about various behaviours my niece has (some of which were exaggerated) and the gp referred my niece to a consultant for 'early signs of autism'.

personally, I was appalled when I saw this referral letter because the gp didn't even examine my niece - just took my sisters word for everything. my niece is walking, talking and doing most of the stuff that an average 2yr old would do - she has a ferocious temper though and sometimes bangs her head off the wall with rage and has some other 'temper' issues where she lashes out. I think it's because she is so frustrated that my sister brings her nowhere if I'm honest.

On the one hand, I am tempted to approach the gp (he's my doctor too) and tell him more about what goes on in our house, explaining the reason why my niece behaves the way she does. But I'm hoping that the consultant will realise that my niece isn't ill at all - she just has a mother who looks for attention through her child..

I don't know what, if anything I can do here - but I hate to think that this is the life my niece has mapped out for her - my sister won't listen to anyone around her. She is split up with my nieces dad for over a year now - but they are still fb 'friends' and he sees my niece the odd time. I am CONVINCED my sister does all of this for his benefit...is there anything I can do????

Morag

Go talk to the dr about your worries.

dilallio

Your GP is quite correct to refer the case to a specialist. The doctor is a General Practitioner and even in the prior case of tonsils, would have referred the child either to A&E or a clinic where the child would be assessed by a Pediatrician or EN&T Surgeon before removing tonsils.

If you have concerns about your niece's welfare, then do not rely on the GP to raise this on their own - they see many different cases every day and may not see the issue.

If your suspicions are correct, your sister needs help, understanding and support, not just from the GP, but also from you and your family.

LegacyUser

but what wud happen if i did this? wud there be social workers at our house?

My sister would know it was me if something like that happened because i am forever arguing with her about tis issue.

The child is really well cared for and loved so much. there isn't what you'd call 'neglect' as such, and even if a social worker called to our home tomorrow, they wouldn't see any signs of mis-treatment of the child.

But there are alot of 'small' things that go on - the child is strapped (shoulder straps too) in her buggy for about 6 hours a day, in front of the tv. She is still spoon fed, and can barely hold onto a biscuit because she has never been encouraged to feed herself - her food is still blended, she is still on formula. All of this is so that my sister can control the situation i feel. She never goes outside the door with her, rearly brings her to the shops in her buggy or anything. At weekends, i try to do stuff with her but I'm in college myself. But even when I undo the shoulder straps on the buggy, my sister immediately clips them back into place again 'in case she tumbles out of the buggy' (which would be almost impossible). Even if the child is toddling around the living room, she closes the door in case the child gets out into the hall.

My other sister has a 4yr old so I've seen how kids should be let roam free at this age, to encourage their development.

We live in an average council house and she has never even gotten a baby gate for the end of the stairs - she'd rather 'contain' the child in the living room and I don't think I've ever even seen the child try to climb up the bottom step of our stairs, as she's not even allowed out into the hall. As I'm writing this, Im realising how bizarre this is.

LegacyUser

dilallio wrote: »

If your suspicions are correct, your sister needs help, understanding and support, not just from the GP, but also from you and your family.

My sister gets as much help and support from me and my Mam as is humanly possible. But she will not listen to us - no matter how many times we tell her the child is ok, she will not listen. The child had the sniffles last week - and at 3am, she woke my mam up to bring her to temple st. She didn't have a temperature, nothing else. They were seen after 4 hours in temple street to be told the child has a cold.

My sister was all over fb that morning, telling everyone 'Poor baby, in temple st for 4hours and she's so ill....' and of course, got many comments back...

The child was so NOT ill that the hospital didn't even suggest calpol!!

tinkerbell

Wow OP, your sister sounds like she's not fit to be a mother at all. I would talk to your GP about it. And since the GP knows how much she brings the kid into the GP office, then he can use that as the reason rather than your sister realising that it was actually you who tipped off the GP, if ya get me ...?

tinkerbell

Also OP, you'd probably get better answers if this was moved to the Parenting forum ...

seamus

No-one has said anything bad, but I would like to just insert a reminder to not make any diagnoses about the sister or any possible conditions she may have. Just advice on what the OP can do to get help. Please and thank you

LegacyUser

Thank u mod.

maybe I shouldn't have used that term in my title, but she certainly is looking for attention by making out her child is sick constantly - and that's what MbP is, isn't it?

I'd rather this wasn't moved to parenting - I'm not a parent myself and there doesn't tend to be a lot of traffic on that part of boards, I was hoping I might get more advice here, in PI>

While I understand what you mean by my sister not being fit to be a mother at all - she is very affectionate and loving to the child - the child is dressed well, fed well and she rarely lets a roar at her. It's like she almost doesn't want to allow to her move past the baby stage and into the toddler stage if im making any sense. And of course, looking for sympathy from all and sundry because the child might be ill.

When she returnd from temple st, my mam said she told every doctor there that her daugter was autistic (just in general chat) ...only that one doctor commented that it's impossible to diagnose autism at such an early age and the baby is not displaying any signs of it to him - only at that point, did she say 'well, my gp has me referred to dr. x in here and I just know it's autism...'
Imagine wanting your child to be austistic? How crazy is that????

January

I don't think your sister is a bad mother, just very over protective and maybe a bit uneducated.

I think maybe a chat with the GP is the best thing to do, don't only explain about the "illnesses" but also about the way the child is strapped in the buggy for most of the day and can't feed itself. The formula one isn't a biggie at the moment, lots of 2 years olds are still on formula and they now even market a 2+ toddler milk by the big companies (even though I think it's all just a money making scheme for them).

Your sister just needs to see that what she is doing with her child, while not particularly wrong, may be inhibiting your nieces development somewhat and things like being able to hold a biscuit/piece of food is something the child should have been doing since they were a young baby (6+ months).

Cheap Thrills!

unregistered wrote: »

But there are alot of 'small' things that go on - the child is strapped (shoulder straps too) in her buggy for about 6 hours a day, in front of the tv. She is still spoon fed, and can barely hold onto a biscuit because she has never been encouraged to feed herself - her food is still blended, she is still on formula.

:eek: That is not acceptable. No wonder the child is frustrated. The child will not develop properly if she is restrained like this, never mind watching 6 hours of TV a day.

My 6 month old nephew is already eating some solids, trying to grab the spoon (precurser to feeding himself) and grabbing the bottle. At 2 this little girl should be eating herself without help.

Look, there is either a problem with the Mother OR the child. I'm actually glad to see she has been referred on for tests. If there is something wrong it will be found. If not then you do need to involve professionals for your nieces sake.

Worrying about your sisters reaction and Social workers coming to the house is something you'll have to get over OP. This little girls development is probably suffering if the problem is with the Mother.

You say she is being well cared for but I disagree. No-one I know straps a 2 year old into a buggy for 6 hours a day. That is abuse.

LegacyUser

I agree that it's almost abuse to strap her into her buggy for so long every day.

But Im in college, my mam is at work and my brother is at school so we have no control over what my sister does when we are out of the house. The second I get in from college i take her out of the buggy.

from what I can see, she spends most of her day on facebook in the kitchen while my niece is in the other room in her buggy.

January

How old is your sister?

Cheap Thrills!

Well done to you OP.

I think your sisters heart might be in the right place but she needs parenting classes and extra support. If she won't listen to anyone then you have to get professionals involved.

Next year the little girl will get a free place in Kindergarten for 3 hours a day. All the other kids will be able to eat sandwitches and fruit and play games together. Draw and paint some basic stuff. They will also be expected to be able to listen to teacher and follow simple instructions, share and co-operate with other kids and socialise.

This poor little girl will be way behind. Something really needs to be done.

axel rose

Looks like you have a point to be concerned op. I suggest that you speak to your public health nurse. You should get in contact with her through your local health centre. They can make house calls and are very much in tune with childrens development and providing support for your sister.

LegacyUser

my sister is 22. she had a bad break up with her boyfriend and he has made things quite difficult for her in relation to maintenance and access - he keeps threatening to bring her to court to get custody. I've shown her as many websites as I can that indicate that there's not a hope in hell he can do this...but still, it scares her.

I had never thought of ringing the health nurse.

Where would I find out where our local health nurse is?

I do know something has to be done and i would like to be the person to do it - but the reality is there is no hope that my sister or I can move out of home for a good while yet, and I would rather there wasn't any animosity between us. She would go insane if she thought I reported her to someone, so if I could have a discreet chat with the health nurse, without her knowing it was me, that would be a good solution.

My mam fell out with my other sister (she also lived at home when her child was young) and the atmosphere in our house for 6 months was so bad, I couldn't cope and got very depressed. There is no way I could cope with that again.

January

Ring your local health centre and give your address and ask for the PHN that would cover your house. Then ask what day she/he does their walk in clinic and go down and ask to speak to her about a situation going on in your home.

Maybe write some notes down before hand so you don't get all mixed up.

The PHN will follow this up as the child is only two years old and the are supposed to follow up until they are of primary school going age. What she may do is call up to your home and have a chat with your sister under the guise of a developmental check up. These have to be scheduled though, so your sister will know about it in advance, and may have her daughter out playing and walking around in anticipation of the PHN calling to the door.

She may suggest the local mother and toddler group to your sister, or if you are in Dublin there may be a community mothers program, where other mums visit young mums and give them advice and support.

metrovelvet

That she is so anxious in private as well as public would suggest to me at least that this is first time mum stuff to an extreme. She sounds isolated and agoraphobic, on her own alot with a two year old, and having a hard time with the ex.

In my opinion single parents cannot be judged in isolation from the other parent. So try to look at the whole picture, and what he is doing or not doing to contribute to the situation.

If he is threatening her all the time then no wonder she is a wreck. And he may never get custody but he can drag her through the courts, where social services files will be exposed, so be careful there if you go down that route.

Is it possible she was left with untreated and undiagnosed pnd?

If you talk to a phn or gp about 'concerns for the child' they are legally obliged to contact social services. But if you talk to a GP about concerns for your sister the GP MIGHT be able to offer some advice.

Make sure you approach this coming from a place of empathy. As far as I can see there are two people sufferring here. Your sis and the baby, and when your sis gets happy, the baby will too.

LegacyUser

she did bring the baby to the local creche about 3 months ago - we live in dublin and it's a very well run large creche, on the northside of Dublin. The part-time creche fee was paid for by the state (I think?) as she is on social welfare. She went around to collect her after 3 hours and said that they told her in the creche that the child wasn't 'quite ready' for creche yet, and to give it another few months. I never believed they said that, if I'm honest, because we have neigbhours who have had kids in that creche from 6months with few issues.

i'm not judging her in isolation of the other parent. He is only 19 himself and completely clueless - I sometimes think the child is better off without him in her life anyway. To include him in this situation would be pointless as he's not involved with the child on a day-to-day basis. I suppose it is possible she had/had post natal - I don't know alot about that - but would you WANT your child to be sick if you had post natal? Is that one of the factors?

I'll find out about my local health nurse and take it from there. Thanks alot.

cutymonalisa

metrovelvet wrote: »

That she is so anxious in private as well as public would suggest to me at least that this is first time mum stuff to an extreme. She sounds isolated and agoraphobic, on her own alot with a two year old, and having a hard time with the ex.

In my opinion single parents cannot be judged in isolation from the other parent. So try to look at the whole picture, and what he is doing or not doing to contribute to the situation.

If he is threatening her all the time then no wonder she is a wreck. And he may never get custody but he can drag her through the courts, where social services files will be exposed, so be careful there if you go down that route.

Is it possible she was left with untreated and undiagnosed pnd?

If you talk to a phn or gp about 'concerns for the child' they are legally obliged to contact social services. But if you talk to a GP about concerns for your sister the GP MIGHT be able to offer some advice.

Make sure you approach this coming from a place of empathy. As far as I can see there are two people sufferring here. Your sis and the baby, and when your sis gets happy, the baby will too.

OK, why the reluctance to involve social services? Immediatly people think that social workers are going to come in an remove the child when, in reality, its about supporting a vulnerable parent, which OP's sister clearly seems to be. Even if the childs father did seek custody social work departments dont become automatically involved in such proceedings and even if they do, the best interests of the child are paramount so whats the problem? This stigma about social workers as baby grabbing do-gooders really grinds my gears.

A GP is a GP - a medical doctor NOT a family support professional per se and NOT the best positioned person to help support your sister.

OP, speak to the area PHN. She is best placed initially to visit and do an assessment as to the development of your niece, bearing in mind what you tell her about your concerns. She will then, if she feels there is a concern contact social services. If she does (as she well may being mandated by Childrens First) please dont panic. Your 2 year old niece doesnt have a voice, you do so please do something affirmative. All the very best.

Darthhoob

although it MAY be a bit young to diagnose a condition such as Autism, ADHD, Aspergers...i think your sister is right to show concern. a doctor cannot diagnose or offer advice on these conditions, they are not medically trained for that. they have to refer them to a specialist and it is that specialist who will assess the child and give a diagnosis (or not) either way...that child is now on the books so to speak so although they may not be able to diagnose now...they can be reassessed in the future, if the need arises. toddlers have tantrums...but repeatedly banging heads isn't all that common in NT children and so could possibly be a sign....though there would be quite a few others...

as the mother of a child with asperger's and ADHD, and who was able to walk at 9 months, talk at 6 months and looks normal and appears to just be badly behaved to an outsider...i would strongly advise you not to talk to the GP...it is not your place to interfere in a referal...it is not even the doctor's place really. IF this child turns out to have a problem, whatever it may be....you would be seen as THE obstacle that got in the way of her and the child getting support and help. leave things as they are...if the child does not have a problem then it will found out by the paediatrician (specialist) the ONLY person who can assess and make a diagnosis. i know everyone thought my child was simply badly behaved and i was a bad parent, even when the school told me they believed my son had an ASD...i'd never heard of that before school told me they wanted to refer him...it took a year of indepth assessments,tests,therapy, appointments, observing and stress to diagnose him (he was 6)..and that was bloody quick compared to some. my best friend also has a son with Asperger's...at 18 months she went to the doctors cos he was banging and smearing. he wasn't diagnosed till he was 6 as they couldn't put a finger on it till then.

i think just because your sister may be paranoid, it doesn't mean she is always wrong and thinking more than there is. better safe than sorry no? this isn't a cold that will go in a week or two...this is a lifelong condition and the earlier it is found IF it is to be found the better....early intervention is key

i know MANY parents of autistic (and similar) kids who were accused of what you are accusing your sister to have, cos people dont often see what parents see. they assume the parents are making it up! as they have proven it's not always the case.

Darthhoob

unregistered wrote: »

but what wud happen if i did this? wud there be social workers at our house?

My sister would know it was me if something like that happened because i am forever arguing with her about tis issue.

The child is really well cared for and loved so much. there isn't what you'd call 'neglect' as such, and even if a social worker called to our home tomorrow, they wouldn't see any signs of mis-treatment of the child.

But there are alot of 'small' things that go on - the child is strapped (shoulder straps too) in her buggy for about 6 hours a day, in front of the tv. She is still spoon fed, and can barely hold onto a biscuit because she has never been encouraged to feed herself - her food is still blended, she is still on formula. All of this is so that my sister can control the situation i feel. She never goes outside the door with her, rearly brings her to the shops in her buggy or anything. At weekends, i try to do stuff with her but I'm in college myself. But even when I undo the shoulder straps on the buggy, my sister immediately clips them back into place again 'in case she tumbles out of the buggy' (which would be almost impossible). Even if the child is toddling around the living room, she closes the door in case the child gets out into the hall.

My other sister has a 4yr old so I've seen how kids should be let roam free at this age, to encourage their development.

We live in an average council house and she has never even gotten a baby gate for the end of the stairs - she'd rather 'contain' the child in the living room and I don't think I've ever even seen the child try to climb up the bottom step of our stairs, as she's not even allowed out into the hall. As I'm writing this, Im realising how bizarre this is.

on reading this it's no wonder the child has issues, this is abuse OP...whether it be due to paranoia or whatnot it is not good for the child....at all. 2 year old are meant to get into trouble and explore, i suspect your sister knows that and wants to protect her...too much...so much so it's affecting her development. i'd be contacting SS tbh, rather than the GP...sister or not. involving SS doesn;t mean the child will be taken away, it'll mean your sister and the child will be getting help and support. this is not healthy OP

Big Bag of Chips

I'm going to make an assumption here.. (!) Your niece has a medical card? So going to the doctor isn't costing your sister anything. So she can "afford" to bring her for every sniffle. The danger would be if she were insisting on the child being medicated everytime she brings her.

You are right to be concerned, but NOBODY is going to diagnose your niece as autistic or anything else if she's not. Your sister is young, nervous and unsure. Maybe she doesn't fully understand the severity of the conditions she speaks of, and maybe she appears to be "wishing" them on her dd, because she speaks so flippantly about such serious conditions. But that may be nothing more than immaturity on her part.

Could you, delicately, suggest a parenting course? Offer to go along with her "just for a look". There may well be something more sinister going on, but it may just be a case of a nervous mother who is getting free medical care, so she's going to take full advantage of whatever is on offer.

pickarooney

unregistered wrote: »

my sister is 22. she had a bad break up with her boyfriend and he has made things quite difficult for her in relation to maintenance and access - he keeps threatening to bring her to court to get custody. I've shown her as many websites as I can that indicate that there's not a hope in hell he can do this...but still, it scares her.

Unless there's something you're not telling us about the child's father I think you should be doing the opposite, to be honest. Your sister is not properly assuming her role as a mother and (again, assuming the guy is not some monster) it would do the child a world of good to get out of the prison she's currently cooped up in.

Knine

Darthhoob wrote: »

although it MAY be a bit young to diagnose a condition such as Autism, ADHD, Aspergers...i think your sister is right to show concern. a doctor cannot diagnose or offer advice on these conditions, they are not medically trained for that. they have to refer them to a specialist and it is that specialist who will assess the child and give a diagnosis (or not) either way...that child is now on the books so to speak so although they may not be able to diagnose now...they can be reassessed in the future, if the need arises. toddlers have tantrums...but repeatedly banging heads isn't all that common in NT children and so could possibly be a sign....though there would be quite a few others...

as the mother of a child with asperger's and ADHD, and who was able to walk at 9 months, talk at 6 months and looks normal and appears to just be badly behaved to an outsider...i would strongly advise you not to talk to the GP...it is not your place to interfere in a referal...it is not even the doctor's place really. IF this child turns out to have a problem, whatever it may be....you would be seen as THE obstacle that got in the way of her and the child getting support and help. leave things as they are...if the child does not have a problem then it will found out by the paediatrician (specialist) the ONLY person who can assess and make a diagnosis. i know everyone thought my child was simply badly behaved and i was a bad parent, even when the school told me they believed my son had an ASD...i'd never heard of that before school told me they wanted to refer him...it took a year of indepth assessments,tests,therapy, appointments, observing and stress to diagnose him (he was 6)..and that was bloody quick compared to some. my best friend also has a son with Asperger's...at 18 months she went to the doctors cos he was banging and smearing. he wasn't diagnosed till he was 6 as they couldn't put a finger on it till then.

i think just because your sister may be paranoid, it doesn't mean she is always wrong and thinking more than there is. better safe than sorry no? this isn't a cold that will go in a week or two...this is a lifelong condition and the earlier it is found IF it is to be found the better....early intervention is key

i know MANY parents of autistic (and similar) kids who were accused of what you are accusing your sister to have, cos people dont often see what parents see. they assume the parents are making it up! as they have proven it's not always the case.

This above is the best advice I have seen on this thread so far.
I wonder OP do you have any children of your own? Because if you don't I would leave the parenting to your sister. It sounds like yours sister is doing a great job in difficult circumstances.

I was in a similar situation as your sister. Certain people said I was scaremongering. I can now tell you that my child is both physcially and mentally disabled. It turns out she has a very serious genetic disorder. Early intervention is key to helping any child who has special needs.

You have mentioned that the child can't feed itself and that the child likes her food blended. To me this is a red flag that this child has development issues and I have been there and have worn the t-shirt.
Stop critising and start supporting your sister. If this little child needs early intervention, then she needs it now. The waiting lists for such interventions are very long.

Your sister should apply for an assessment of needs for your niece and her public health nurse can organise this.

Elle Collins

Sorry to be so blunt but your sister sounds to me like an out-and-out headbanger. She is abusing her child and is allowed to get away with it because the other adults in the equation are turning a blind eye. What has your mother got to say about her grandchild being strapped into a buggy pointed at the goggle-box for six hours a day??? :mad:

Thank God in your case you are preparing to do something about it. My advice would be to consider yourself prepared and get on with it. This crap going on at the developmental stage can do a child the kind of damage that lasts a lifetime. You need to get down to the local social worker AND public health nurse asap.

Elle Collins

Knine wrote: »

To me this is a red flag that this child has development issues...

Of course she has development issues. Any child's going to have development issues if they're never allowed feed themselves or spend five minutes out of their buggy.

prinz

Knine wrote: »

I wonder OP do you have any children of your own? Because if you don't I would leave the parenting to your sister. It sounds like yours sister is doing a great job in difficult circumstances...

If that's what you call doing a great job I'd hate to see what you'd call bad parenting. Tying your child down in front of a TV for the day is not 'doing a great job' no matter what the circumstances.

Perhaps the mother should concentrate more on stimulating her child like a parent should and less on "social networking" and realise that TV is not a suitable substitute for the stimuli such a young child needs.

Knine wrote: »

You have mentioned that the child can't feed itself and that the child likes her food blended. To me this is a red flag that this child has development issues and I have been there and have worn the t-shirt..

The child needs to be taught these things. The kid needs to be exposed to sitting down and watching adults eat, eat, chew, swallow etc. Being strapped into a buggy all day and fed a liquid diet is not going to teach the kid these skills. No wonder the kid has 'development issues' the mother doesn't seem to be doing much to actually help that development along.

LegacyUser

op here.

to answer a few of your comments.

There is nothing I'm not telling abut the childs dad. He is very young and immature and has found himself another girlfriend while my sister was pregnant. he doesn't want to know the baby at all - she has tried here and there to get him to see the child, but even when he calls in, he shows very little interest in her. they had an arrangement for a few weeks last year where he would take her out for a few hours a day, but he always came back early with her saying she was crying, or he would let her down and wouldn't show up. The bottom line is he has no interest in the child.

I have no children. But I'm not stupid. I live in the same house as my sister and see what's going on. the child is in bed at 6.30 every night and then my sister complains every morning and is all over facebook about having been up 3 times during the nite with her. The child isn't even tired going to bed.

The child has development issues because of her environment. I can see that because I can see the environment she lives in day in, day out. When she is not strapped into her buggy, she is in the play pen. Its like my sister just wants to control her and not let her develop. She didn't get a high chair for her, but fed her in the buggy (and still does) claiming she thought high chairs were dangerous. Therefore, the child has never had to pick stuff up of the tray (in the highchair) or even attempt to feed herself. She doesn't know how to do these things because she has never been shown.

My mother has tried and tried with my sister - they have terrible rows, but it all falls on deaf ears. My mother is also concerened for the child and has told me that she also things theres nothing wrong with her, other than the fact that she hasn't been encouraged or allowed to develop in the way a normal child would be.

None of you have really commented on the facebook stuff, but I honestly think that's a huge factor in this. If you saw the number of comments she writes, all looking for attention from people she doesn't even know. It's really just not right.

I have rang the local health nurse and she told me to drop into her next week, so I'm going to do this.

Darthhoob

Knine wrote: »

This above is the best advice I have seen on this thread so far.
I wonder OP do you have any children of your own? Because if you don't I would leave the parenting to your sister. It sounds like yours sister is doing a great job in difficult circumstances.

I was in a similar situation as your sister. Certain people said I was scaremongering. I can now tell you that my child is both physcially and mentally disabled. It turns out she has a very serious genetic disorder. Early intervention is key to helping any child who has special needs.

You have mentioned that the child can't feed itself and that the child likes her food blended. To me this is a red flag that this child has development issues and I have been there and have worn the t-shirt.
Stop critising and start supporting your sister. If this little child needs early intervention, then she needs it now. The waiting lists for such interventions are very long.

Your sister should apply for an assessment of needs for your niece and her public health nurse can organise this.

i think my advice was good advice (lol i would) and i still think the GP should be kept out of it and the child should still be assessed by the specialist...as she obviously does have developmental issues....whether than be because of poor parenting or a condition. after reading all the posts i believe it is the former but i am not a specialist. i made the first reply after only reading the OP....a habit i should break lol.

any child who who not allowed to develope normally is going to have developmental problems. my sons only know how to use a spoon cos they have been allowed to use them and copy us...my eldest cannot use cutlery very well, but he tries...has done since he was about a year old...my two toddlers are better than him lol. but thats the difference. he's learnt how to...been given the change to develope that skill...and he can't do it still (sensory and motor issues)...this child isn't given the chance. i dont know what is going on in the mother's head but it's clear she needs help. so i later advised to get SS involved. they will help her and the little girl get on the right track.

it's not that the child prefers her food blended and cannot use cutlery....if it was i'd agree totally with you. but she's not allowed to eat anything other than blended food and is not allowed to use cutlery.

the child still needs early intervention, that much is obvious...they ARE delayed. but i strongly believe...judging by these posts...that the mother is what delayed her and not some neurological condition?

OP how long has the strapping them up gone on for? all her life or fairly recent? a small (very small) part of me wonders if she does it because the child has problems?

Knine

Darthhoob wrote: »

OP how long has the strapping them up gone on for? all her life or fairly recent? a small (very small) part of me wonders if she does it because the child has problems?

Funny enough when I read this part I also thought the same. My child regularly has to be contained for her own health and safety. I guess its very easy for parents who don't have chilldren with special needs to call the OP's sister a poor parent but we are only getting one side of the story here and as I said I was once called a scaremonger for raising concerns about my childs development. It turns out those concerns were very valid. My child is now in a wheelchair.

Darthhoob I said I thought your advice was very good. To the other posters I'm speaking from experience. When you have a child yourself with special and complex needs you would see exactly where I'm coming from.

And I think my advice was very valid. This child needs an assessment of needs done. Then if there are no concerns the OP can get on with supporting her sister and if the sister has issues with her parenting then this can also be addressed.

LegacyUser

op again. She has been strapped into her buggy with the shoulder straps from the time she could sit up on her own. My sister keeps the shouldstraps on so that at nap-time, she can't keep sitting up.

Darthhoob

unregistered wrote: »

op again. She has been strapped into her buggy with the shoulder straps from the time she could sit up on her own. My sister keeps the shouldstraps on so that at nap-time, she can't keep sitting up.

so 6 months old approx then not good

Elle Collins

Darthhoob wrote: »

a small (very small) part of me wonders if she does it because the child has problems?

The only problem this child has is that her mother hasn't a clue how to raise her.

Darthhoob

Elle Collins wrote: »

The only problem this child has is that her mother hasn't a clue how to raise her.

yes which is what i said in the rest of the post you quoted a small line from :rolleyes:

Elle Collins

Darthhoob wrote: »

yes which is what i said in the rest of the post you quoted a small line from :rolleyes:

I know you did. I never said otherwise.

OP, let us know how you get on with the PHN.

Darthhoob

Elle Collins wrote: »

I know you did. I never said otherwise.

OP, let us know how you get on with the PHN.

sorry, i read the tone wrong. my apologises x

pickarooney

unregistered wrote: »

There is nothing I'm not telling abut the childs dad. He is very young and immature and has found himself another girlfriend while my sister was pregnant. he doesn't want to know the baby at all - she has tried here and there to get him to see the child, but even when he calls in, he shows very little interest in her. they had an arrangement for a few weeks last year where he would take her out for a few hours a day, but he always came back early with her saying she was crying, or he would let her down and wouldn't show up. The bottom line is he has no interest in the child.

I thought you were saying that he was constantly trying to get access and custody but must have picked you up wrong.

There does seem to be a massive gulf between the amount of attention she wants other people to give the child (and, by extension, her given your description) and the complete lack of attention she gives the poor girl herself.
Obviously it's impossible and ill-advised for anyone to make any kind of judgement but there's clearly something very wrong with your sister and your niece is suffering during the most important developmental period of her life. Let's hope social services can be of assistance.

Chuchoter

unregistered wrote: »

But there are alot of 'small' things that go on - the child is strapped (shoulder straps too) in her buggy for about 6 hours a day, in front of the tv. She is still spoon fed, and can barely hold onto a biscuit because she has never been encouraged to feed herself - her food is still blended, she is still on formula. All of this is so that my sister can control the situation i feel. She never goes outside the door with her, rearly brings her to the shops in her buggy or anything. At weekends, i try to do stuff with her but I'm in college myself. But even when I undo the shoulder straps on the buggy, my sister immediately clips them back into place again 'in case she tumbles out of the buggy' (which would be almost impossible). Even if the child is toddling around the living room, she closes the door in case the child gets out into the hall.
.

Whatever about the doctor stuff, which sounds rather mad, if she doesn't sort this part out soon you will be looking at developmental delays. She is never going to learn any motor skills if she never does anything, I don't know a single 2 year old without any other issues who can't feed themselves at all and who never walk around. Kids fall over sometimes, they're built for it and its fine to leave them wander round the room as long as you can see them

Aishae

its not outside the realm of possibility that the child might have a problem but in extreme cases like this - if no one questioned the extreme way the parent treated the child then a lot of kids could end up in horrible situations and with developmental issues because the parent has has an issue (could be mental for example) - i dont mean that gives any joe on the street the right to question a situation. but close family and friends such as the OP are in a position to know more than simply what they see. so its a bit of a double edged sword - there could be something wrong with child afterall but there also might not be and the kid really needs someone to speak up for them.

i'd been following the thread a few days - and i felt like most that this is the mothers issue not the kid. but as has been said: at the very least a specialist can rule out any problems with the little girl so efforts can be centred on helping the mum (and by doing so you'd be helping the little girl) - bolstered by the fact the girl gets a clean bill of health (if she does)

allym

OP I think speaking to your PHN about this is a great idea and well done for stepping up to do something about this situation.Because what your sister is doing to her child is terrible. Its natural to want to protect your children and I'm sure she thinks she's doing what's best. But if your niece doesn't have a pre-existing condition like autism, then it's possible that she could end up with a developmental disorder. Kids need stimulation, they need to interact with adults and other children and to learn from those around them. They learn through exploration. Your niece doesn't seem to be getting any of this by being strapped in her chair and not allowed to learn through doing. Constantly being fed in her buggy is also terrible for her because like you pointed out it doesn't really give her the chance to feed herself.

And on the Facebook thing, I think it's clear your sister is just constantly looking for attention. Maybe she's just really lonely and bored and she sees this as her only social outlet. But she should not be using her daughter as a means of getting attention.

Overall, regardless of wether there's anything wrong with your niece or not, I think your sister needs help as she obviously has issues she needs to work through. Hopefully your nurse can help point you in the right direction.

Moomoo1

OP

regarding MSbP: it is a condition that has never been proved to exist. Yet, once a parent has been tarred by it, it is IMPOSSIBLE to clear their name, because (get it) denial of MSbP is supposed to be one of the symptoms of MSbP

So parents accused of this (possibly fictitious) condition cannot clear their name because that is seen as denial and a symptom of the disease! That means they lose their children. This is supposedly in the interests of the child. But statistically, children who have been through the care system have terrible chances in life. The care system is there for children who suffer serious abuse, but too often is used to remove children from normal families.

Look up Roy Meadows on the internet. Because of his say-so thousands and thousands of children were removed from possibly normal families. Eventually he was discredited, like most such quacks do, but for 35 years the guy was orthodoxy. I can give you some links to articles I've saved if you are interested.

I think a parent that takes a child 50 times to the doctor is just being responsible. Let's face it, with first children you never know what is a serious illness and what is minor.

Acoshla

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I think a parent that takes a child 50 times to the doctor is just being responsible. Let's face it, with first children you never know what is a serious illness and what is minor.

Taking the child to the doctor could be seen as just being cautious, yes. But restricting the child's movement and stimulation to such a detrimental degree is not normal, most parents encourage their children to play and explore (I'm not even a parent and I too have the spent the day shadowing two year old's to steer them away from coffee table corners and stairs whilst still letting them explore their environment), not tie them into a buggy and leave them in front of a tv.

Chuchoter

Well yeah, Münchhausen is not exactly the most concrete of diagnoses, but something strange is afoot. OP doesn't need to mention the name of the disease, just say what the story is and hopefully someone will sort it.

pickarooney

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I think a parent that takes a child 50 times to the doctor is just being responsible. Let's face it, with first children you never know what is a serious illness and what is minor.

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that bringing a child with no health problems to the doctor's every week, wasting his time, the time of people who are actually sick and thousands of pounds of other people's money is in any way responsible? Unless you mean 'responsible for developmental problems in her child'.

LegacyUser

Op here, I completely disagree with you moomoo sorry.

I live in this house and if the child even sniffs, my sister is straight to the doctor with her and then straight onto facebook when she returns saying 'another trip to the doc with babs...sigh' or something similar. My niece was badly teething for a few months and has red cheeks..my sister was convinced it was some rare rash of sorts, had her at the doctor about 3 times in a week, even though the doctor kept reassuring her it was directly from the teething..

My sisters behaviour is not normal, but my niece will not end up in care - she is well cared for on many levels, and she is so loved by us all. It's just my sister doesn't appear to want her to develop.

I used the term Mbp for the thread title - I know there are conflicting stories on this illness (and if it's even an illness) and i'm not trying to diagnose my sister here at all - but the fact remains that she is wishing her child is sick on a regular basis, so that she can get attention for herself.

Ive an apt to see the nurse on tuesday, I'll get back to you and let you know what she says.

Svalbard

The referral to a pediatrician may have a secondary benefit - if the query is autism, the child will likely be referred to an early intervention team for multidisciplinary assessment and be seen by a psychologist, social worker, speech an language therapist etc. I would be surprised if none of them picked up on the abnormal parental relationship.

Moomoo1

Spadina wrote: »

Taking the child to the doctor could be seen as just being cautious, yes. But restricting the child's movement and stimulation to such a detrimental degree is not normal, most parents encourage their children to play and explore (I'm not even a parent and I too have the spent the day shadowing two year old's to steer them away from coffee table corners and stairs whilst still letting them explore their environment), not tie them into a buggy and leave them in front of a tv.

I agree, the buggy thing is terrible. That's certainly something to be concerned about.

chocgirl

Talk to the GP or Public Health Nurse, they should be able to advise the Mum what the child should be doing in terms of development and what should be encouraged. Does your Mum not have a chat with her about her behaviour?

Moomoo1

pickarooney wrote: »

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that bringing a child with no health problems to the doctor's every week, wasting his time, the time of people who are actually sick and thousands of pounds of other people's money is in any way responsible? Unless you mean 'responsible for developmental problems in her child'.

Firstly, as a parent of a one-year old who seems to pick up a different infection every other week, I can see how you'd want to seek medical help so often (and 50 times in 2 years is just once every fortnight). Because when you are a first time parent you often can't tell a harmless bug from a dangerous respiratory infection. And often there is a need for further visits over the same problem, for prescriptions, for different prescriptions when the first prescription doesn't work/causes an allergy, you name it.

More generally, I come from a country where medical beliefs are, let's say, different. Especially when it comes to children. Basically, people in my country believe that here the doctors don't take any preventive measures, they treat illnesses but not prevent them. It's a major difference of opinion.

This sort of behaviour (looking for even the smallest signs of diseases early on, wanting to take preventive measures, etc) is very familiar to me. It's how my parents' generation thinks child medicine should be. Now, I don't think the OP's sister comes from that background, but this sort of thing is not abnormal.

To give you an example, a few weeks after birth my daughter developed plageocephaly (when your skull bones fuse together in an irregular shape). The doctors' attitude here was 'ah well, it's nothing, it will go away by itself by 6 months'. When it didn't go away by 6 months they said 'well, it will go by 12 months'. Well, it's been 13 months and it's still there. Not as bad as at 1 month, but still. And as your skull solidifies the chances of recovery are diminishing fast. Now, doctors insist that this is just a cosmetic problem, that having an irregular-shaped skull doesn't affect mental development. But we have seen at least one reputable study that suggests otherwise...

What I am saying is that people in this country maybe have the tendency to not look for early signs of problems in children as much as in some other places, and view those who do as abnormal, but I certainly don't.

Moomoo1

unregistered wrote: »

Op here, I completely disagree with you moomoo sorry.

I live in this house and if the child even sniffs, my sister is straight to the doctor with her and then straight onto facebook when she returns saying 'another trip to the doc with babs...sigh' or something similar. My niece was badly teething for a few months and has red cheeks..my sister was convinced it was some rare rash of sorts, had her at the doctor about 3 times in a week, even though the doctor kept reassuring her it was directly from the teething..

My sisters behaviour is not normal, but my niece will not end up in care - she is well cared for on many levels, and she is so loved by us all. It's just my sister doesn't appear to want her to develop.

I used the term Mbp for the thread title - I know there are conflicting stories on this illness (and if it's even an illness) and i'm not trying to diagnose my sister here at all - but the fact remains that she is wishing her child is sick on a regular basis, so that she can get attention for herself.

Ive an apt to see the nurse on tuesday, I'll get back to you and let you know what she says.

Not wanting the child to develop is a problem, I agree. The buggy thing is a problem also. You should certainly talk about these.

But I am convinced that seeing doctors too often is not a problem. And you should never say the bolded bit to anybody in an official capacity. It's just too risky.