Learners permit expired but have Insurance please help

The Behemoth

Hello everyone, ok heres my story & hopefully you can let me know where I stand. Last September I was stopped by a guard & didnt have my provisional license & the insurance wasnt displayed. The tax was out by 2 months. He seized the car & gave me an option of stations to present the Insurance, updated tax & license. I did this the next day in a station that he didnt work in with the help of my partner who showed her license to assist in getting the car back & i said nothing about me being pulled. I was as you would say driving unaccompanied. We had the Insurance docs & proof in the house as the insurance crowd forgot to post the disc. My provisional license is also expired about 2 years id say A few weeks later I received 2 fines for the non display of tax & insurance which i paid straight away. I thought that would be it matter sorted. Anyway the other day 2 Summons arrived from the local Gurad for non presentation of license within the 10 days etc & non display of insurance etc. I told him that this was all actioned previously in the other Garda station & he told me to contact the guard who pulled me. So what can I do or what should I do?
My provisional was expired & i need to get it updated fast fair enough. However i am insured as per the policy & i have already paid the fine. I have no previous convictions or ever been in trouble with the law. Have I any way of keeping out of court here? I have read previous threads & there seems to be confusion over if your insured without a valid license? Can someone definitely say that if your name is on the policy regardless of license then you are insured? Im thinking of ringing the Guard who pulled me & saying that all was sorted the next day in the other station & the fines were paid. Maybe he would leave it at that??
Thanks in advance & apologies for a new thread but i am bricking it & want to guage my situatiion with some here who may be in the know.

Reloc8

The Behemoth wrote: »

Hello everyone, ok heres my story & hopefully you can let me know where I stand. Last September I was stopped by a guard & didnt have my provisional license & the insurance wasnt displayed. The tax was out by 2 months. He seized the car & gave me an option of stations to present the Insurance, updated tax & license.

The tax is linked to the vehicle. The insurance and licence were for you to produce, i.e. produce proof you were insured, and that you were licensed.

The Behemoth wrote: »

I did this the next day in a station that he didnt work in with the help of my partner who showed her license to assist in getting the car back & i said nothing about me being pulled.

No you didn't, unless you have left something out of your post. Your partner produced her license. That doesn't meet your obligation.

The Behemoth wrote: »

I was as you would say driving unaccompanied. We had the Insurance docs & proof in the house as the insurance crowd forgot to post the disc.

And on an expired license.

The Behemoth wrote: »

My provisional license is also expired about 2 years id say A few weeks later I received 2 fines for the non display of tax & insurance which i paid straight away.

OK - good call.

The Behemoth wrote: »

I thought that would be it matter sorted.

Why ? You never produced your license, from what I can gather. You seem to have had your partner produce a license 'to assist in getting the car back'. Are you really saying you tried to say it was your partner who was driving when the requirement to produce was made ?

The Behemoth wrote: »

Anyway the other day 2 Summons arrived from the local Gurad for non presentation of license within the 10 days etc & non display of insurance etc.

According to your post as I understand it you didn't produce your license. If you in fact did pay a fine issued to you for non display of insurance disc then this summons shouldn't have issued. Keep proof of payment in this regard for your court date.

The Behemoth wrote: »

I told him that this was all actioned previously in the other Garda station & he told me to contact the guard who pulled me. So what can I do or what should I do?

Go to court.

The Behemoth wrote: »

My provisional was expired & i need to get it updated fast fair enough. However i am insured as per the policy & i have already paid the fine. I have no previous convictions or ever been in trouble with the law. Have I any way of keeping out of court here? I have read previous threads & there seems to be confusion over if your insured without a valid license?

If you're summonsed to court you have to go (or at least if you don't go you will be dealt with in your absence, generally more harshly than if you attended).

You can't be convicted for not being insured, if that's what you mean. That's not an endorsement of you driving around unaccompanied on an expired provisional mind. In any event you are saying that you have been summonsed for not producing your license and for not displaying insurance, but nothing else, so I don't see why you are worried about that.

I have a strong suspicion that your problems here may however be starting if it is the case, as it seems to be, that you were driving unaccompanied on an expired provisional but gave the garda who pulled you the impression that you wern't and would proceed to produce your full valid license within 10 days. You then had your partner produce a driving license but never produced your expired provisional. Its going to take about 30 seconds for that to emerge in court if so at which point a judge will take a fairly dim view of your position and you can expect a pretty savage fine (max is €800 in your circumstances, from memory).

That leaves the question of whether you could then be summonsed for driving unaccompanied. On the face of it, no, as six months from September expires in March 2011 and I presume your court date is in advance of that time frame. However that is not straightforward if the position which I have described above is accurate regarding your dealings.

If in fact you did provide your expired provisional license then you have much, much, less to worry about.

Noting your fears and concerns I suggest you engage a solicitor rather than deal with this yourself, if you did not produce your expired provisional license.

The Behemoth

Thanks for the info above Reloc8. I will clear a few aspects up that you queried above. First off I personally knew I had a previous provisional, i however forgot it was expired & furthermore it is also lost. I am in the process of sorting it out for the Court date which is sometime in April. We needed the car back A.S.A.P so when we went to the station i think we (bear with me as i thought the issue was closed months ago) just decided to show what we had & i think i said my provisional was lost or something. When the Guard stopped me he asked about a license & i dont remember him stipulating Provisional or full, i said id produce it at the station as to be honest i just panicked. I thought it was in the glove compartment but alas no. I think at the station we kept info to a minimum & just presented what we could so the car could be got back.
Just to recap can you confirm that it would be best to just go to court on the day or should I contact the Guard in question over the Insurance to see if that can be forgotten about.
As regards the License, is this a major major offense & what is the minimum & maximum fine I could expect? Also is this sort of thing kept out of local papers etc as that would be embarressing.
Again thanks in advance & let me know if you require any other information on the incident.
Finally should i definitely get a Solicitor for the date & what cost would that be?

MagicSean

I don't think you actually produced your licence or insurance as required under the demand. When you went to the station you most likely paid the fine. The Garda would have informed you that the vehicle could not be driven away without a fully licenced and insured driver which was your partner at which point you proved to the garda she was licenced and insured. Did he actually enter the details on the system? Did you tell him you were told to produce your insurance?

The Behemoth

I dont think i told him directly.I was worried about the license aspect as i knew my provisional was expired so we sort of winged it as we both just wanted the car. I was of the impression that once we showed the insurance with my name on it & a sort of dance round the license part that it would be done. Stupid now i know dont worry. We went in together so sort of gace the impression that we had been pulled over together ALTHOUGH WE NEVER SAID THAT. I thought once the car was seized that they would have all the situation on their system & any questions would have been asked there & then.

MagicSean

You don't think much of the Gardaí. Or you took some poor advice. Bring your insurance to court and show it to the Garda before hand. If you have your licence show that too. He may strike both of them out or he might go ahead with them.