Setting up a small cafe HELP needed :)

saoirsebui

Hi, I've been out of work for a while and on JSA since Christmas.
I HATE being out of work and living so frugally and generally not wanting to get out of bed in the mornings!!

So, I've decided to try and do what Iv always wanted to do.

To set up a small cafe, maybe stay open late, have beer/wine an tapas. Somewhere to go other than a loud pub at night.

I've decided to sell an old car that a relation left and should (got it valued) get at least €5500 for it.

It's not a whole lot but I plan on doing it up with second hand equip(so many cares in Ireland closing down I know!) and my brother is a chippie & all rounder so he said he would help me out.

I looked up the enterprise allowance and it said you have to be on welfare for 12months+ (great incentives there!!)

Does anyone know can I get assistance from anywhere else?

I know some people are going to say I'm daft but there's nowhere in my town to go at night except a pub or a restaurant.

I'm also going to offer healthy foods(not just wholemeal bread & fake butter!) but stevia sweetened treats & pure fruit ice creams, home made cordial & lots of other nice things!

Nowhere offers free wifi either so will have that and lovely music!

I have an interview for FAS tomorrow (got letter in post last week saying it's mandatory I go in and talk and see if there's any courses etc) should I ask them? Can FAS help?

I don't think my bank would give me a loan, I don't have bad credit but having no salary and an empty bank balance won't help!

So any of you boardies with knowledge please come forth & share!

Arciphel

Sounds like a great idea OP I'll be checking this thread so please keep us updated on how it's going....

Acoshla

There's two types of Back To Work Allowances, I can never remember the difference in names between them but I got it and I wasn't on JSA a year, one is for a year and the other is for 2 years I think, but there's no harm in asking anyway, that's what I did. I wasn't dealing with an Enterprise Board, it was a rural development scheme, but they were very supportive and helpful, much moreso than my local enterprise board but that's another story.

chillywilly

Fair play, and good luck with it!

saoirsebui

saoirsebui wrote: »

Hi, I've been out of work for a while and on JSA since Christmas.
I HATE being out of work and living so frugally and generally not wanting to get out of bed in the mornings!!

So, I've decided to try and do what Iv always wanted to do.

To set up a small cafe, maybe stay open late, have beer/wine an tapas. Somewhere to go other than a loud pub at night.

I've decided to sell an old car that a relation left and should (got it valued) get at least €5500 for it.

It's not a whole lot but I plan on doing it up with second hand equip(so many cares in Ireland closing down I know!) and my brother is a chippie & all rounder so he said he would help me out.

I looked up the enterprise allowance and it said you have to be on welfare for 12months+ (great incentives there!!)

Does anyone know can I get assistance from anywhere else?

I know some people are going to say I'm daft but there's nowhere in my town to go at night except a pub or a restaurant.

I'm also going to offer healthy foods(not just wholemeal bread & fake butter!) but stevia sweetened treats & pure fruit ice creams, home made cordial & lots of other nice things!

Nowhere offers free wifi either so will have that and lovely music!

I have an interview for FAS tomorrow (got letter in post last week saying it's mandatory I go in and talk and see if there's any courses etc) should I ask them? Can FAS help?

I don't think my bank would give me a loan, I don't have bad credit but having no salary and an empty bank balance won't help!

So any of you boardies with knowledge please come forth & share!

Hi Saoirse, probably going to be hard for you to get any assistance in your circumstances. Best thing might be to get your friends and family to help.

Make sure the rent is low and the menu is small so your costs arent big and you might be able to build it up with some personality. And watch all of Ramsays kitchen nightmares! He has a pretty simple blueprint for success with food.

littlejp

+1 on the Ramsay stuff. He uses the same formula everytime...
Simple menu, fresh food, friendly staff.
That's all it takes.
Be careful with the wifi. If possible try to limit it to 20 minute sessions per customer or something similar. You could end up with a business full of students sipping 1 coffee for 3 hours to use the free wifi. (no offence to students)

Cianos

saoirsebui wrote: »

I know some people are going to say I'm daft but there's nowhere in my town to go at night except a pub or a restaurant

There's usually a good reason for this. It's risky introducing a service and hoping that its presence will create the demand. So you should make yourself damn sure that there actually is a demand there before investing in it.

shanemort

Long hours, Lots of Cafe's, Where are you setting up?

wellboy76

Hi,

I have just assisted someone in Kilkenny who are opening a cafe today and even with second hand you are not going to open one less than €10K

And smaller items like panini grills and toasters need to be bought new. PM me if you want some advice

littlejp

wellboy76 wrote: »

Hi,
even with second hand you are not going to open one less than €10K

I have to disagree. With so many places closing you can find lots of equipment for cheap. You can get a large 4 slice toaster for less than €100. Don't necessarily need a Panini Grill.
You can start small and expand the menu once there is money coming in.
Things like jugs, glasses can be bought in Ikea for very little.
Many coffee suppliers are willing to give you branded mugs for free when you get coffee from them.
Larger items like coffee machines can be leased.
OP, you don't need to crush yourself with debt before you have even opened. Start small and build from there.

Chet Zar

littlejp wrote: »

I have to disagree. With so many places closing you can find lots of equipment for cheap. You can get a large 4 slice toaster for less than €100. Don't necessarily need a Panini Grill.
You can start small and expand the menu once there is money coming in.
Things like jugs, glasses can be bought in Ikea for very little.
Many coffee suppliers are willing to give you branded mugs for free when you get coffee from them.
Larger items like coffee machines can be leased.
OP, you don't need to crush yourself with debt before you have even opened. Start small and build from there.

Top tips there I'd say - right on the money.

Start lean and stay lean until you can afford to spend more - good way to build in any industry I reckon.

wellboy76

littlejp wrote: »

I have to disagree. With so many places closing you can find lots of equipment for cheap. You can get a large 4 slice toaster for less than €100. Don't necessarily need a Panini Grill.
You can start small and expand the menu once there is money coming in.
Things like jugs, glasses can be bought in Ikea for very little.
Many coffee suppliers are willing to give you branded mugs for free when you get coffee from them.
Larger items like coffee machines can be leased.
OP, you don't need to crush yourself with debt before you have even opened. Start small and build from there.

Well to the OP, good luck with your venture. But be careful buying from budget catalogue companies and second hand especially. There are a few places "specialising" in this and I know that the toaster you will be buying may well have been out in a yard in the snow all winter! Make sure you have someone you know and trust to give gear the once over especially on the refrigeration end as you will have no comeback whatsoever despite what anyone says. Some things may appear fine until you run it for a few hours and could end up costing you much more in repairs.

Pixelcraft

Best of luck OP, I'm curious though, with rates etc can you really start a cafe for anywhere near 10k? I wouldn't have thought so. It's great if you can

ToxicPaddy

Keep an eye on Wilsons Auctions site as they are always doing asset disposal auctions for resturants, cafes etc, so would be a good cheap way of picking up some fittings, equipment etc..

Good luck with the new venture..

ssbob

My advice for the finance side of things would maybe to sell the car and hopefully get your €5k, lodge this into your local credit union and if possible even €20 a week from your social welfare for up to 10 weeks. Apply for a loan(be upfront), they are usually willing to give up to 5 times your savings(10 times in the good times), this would give you roughly €25k to start with which should secure your premises for the first 6 months and kit it out and give you a float for a month.

Perhaps instead of paying your brother you may be able to negotiate a type of profit share or partnership......

Good luck with it, hope it works out.

Pixelcraft

ssbob wrote: »

they are usually willing to give up to 5 times your savings(10 times in the good times)

I'm pretty sure the maximum they give out is 3 times your savings. In good times or bad.

ssbob

Pixelcraft wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the maximum they give out is 3 times your savings. In good times or bad.

I think different Credit Unions have different criteria depending on how big or small they are. I got €30k based on €5k savings so that was 6 times my savings.............

Even so 3 times your savings would still give you €15k which would be a great start.

Pixelcraft

Yup maybe so. They're probably more generous in Cork

ssbob

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Yup maybe so. They're probably more generous in Cork

+1

Lantus

Do your research on all other cafe's and places in the are your setting up. What do they offer? What are there prices? Quality of food and service. Other facilities? Are they child friendly? Somewhere for mums to get together with prams and the like. Maybe , maybe not...

There is a huge market for people getting the basics right. Good food and service consistently applied which Ireland has always lacked in buckets.

Drive hard bargains with your money for anything being bought and set budgets. Bargain hard on the rent (a major drain.)

If your going to open late then how will you keep loud enthusiastic drunks out? is location enough? do you need security?

as with any idea, you need belief and in this case a willingness to work LOOOOONG hours.

Good luck to you.

DubTony

If you're on a budget, I'm afraid the beer thing might be out of the question. You need a full licence to sell beer. About €120K I believe.

MrMatisse

Best of luck OP.

Try to work a contingency into your figures, something mad always happens;)

ssbob

DubTony wrote: »

If you're on a budget, I'm afraid the beer thing might be out of the question. You need a full licence to sell beer. About €120K I believe.

Don't think that is true, you can sell beer as long as it is with food without a full licence but you should look into this properly before you go through with it.

Woodgate

DubTony wrote: »

You need a full licence to sell beer.

I don't think so.

Bandara

As far as I'm aware it would be a Special Restaurant Licence you would require costs €3800 for a new Licence, you have to go to court with Tax Clearance Certificate, Certificate of Incorporation and have your business name registration. They can also request plans of the building, approval of the local garda, and may request that an architect accompany you to court

I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think I am too far off the mark.

DubTony

hmmm ... well, I guess I've been educated.

saoirsebui

Thanks guys for the votes of confidence and the info.

I think I will do that, deposit the money from the sale of the car and try and get a loan.

I spoke to a few people that are involved with welfare and enterprise(on the sly!) and they said to be honest I would be better off to STAY on JSA for the 12 months and I would get so much more assistance! Isn't that hard to believe!!

It would be hard to do decent market research in my town to be honest but I really feel like a healthy cafe and late opening would do well.

I'll keep all in the loop!

ssbob

saoirsebui wrote: »

I spoke to a few people that are involved with welfare and enterprise(on the sly!) and they said to be honest I would be better off to STAY on JSA for the 12 months and I would get so much more assistance! Isn't that hard to believe!!

Yes extremely hard to believe, maybe the incoming government can do something to tackle this!!

Anyway good luck with it and keep us updated, you might post where it is when you get it up and running!

faigs

Best of luck with your venture. I was out of work for 3 months and on JSA in 2009 and FÁS assisted me by paying for me to to a 'Start your own Business' course that ran one night a week for 10 weeks. It was very helpful. And I qualified for the Short Term Enterprise Allowance which meant I could work away and still receive my JSA for a year from when I first signed on. The local Jobs Facilitator also funded me for €900 worth of equipment that I needed to start my business. I think the terms of that may have changed now though, go to the Jobs facilitator in your local SW office and they will tell you what you qualify for.

I hope you get up and running, I'm always looking for a late night cafe to in Dublin!

kilburn

Any updates Saoirse ? I am very interested in doing the same.

Zonua

saoirsebui wrote: »

To set up a small cafe, maybe stay open late

Yes! Please please do this!

Re the wifi, I disagree with the poster who suggested limiting it. In Ireland we are so behind our European counterparts when it comes to wireless internet access.

bigneacy

Hammertime wrote: »

As far as I'm aware it would be a Special Restaurant Licence you would require costs €3800 for a new Licence, you have to go to court with Tax Clearance Certificate, Certificate of Incorporation and have your business name registration. They can also request plans of the building, approval of the local garda, and may request that an architect accompany you to court

I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think I am too far off the mark.

Thanks for that info Hammertime! I never knew that either... Interesting *strokes his imaginary beard*

saoirsebui wrote: »

Thanks guys for the votes of confidence and the info.

I think I will do that, deposit the money from the sale of the car and try and get a loan.

I spoke to a few people that are involved with welfare and enterprise(on the sly!) and they said to be honest I would be better off to STAY on JSA for the 12 months and I would get so much more assistance! Isn't that hard to believe!!

It would be hard to do decent market research in my town to be honest but I really feel like a healthy cafe and late opening would do well.

I'll keep all in the loop!

I was on JSA for a month or two and I got awarded 9 months BTWEA which really took the pressure off. I dealt with the 'Louth Leader' who were fantastic, they don't work for Social Welfare so are there to help you, not them. They seem to have branches in almost every county so that could be helpful for you.

Something else for you to mull over - if you don't want to go the Night time route;

http://littlebeanscafe.com
http://www.springwise.com/food_beverage/littlebeans/

MyPerfectCousin

If you are looking for a loan and the banks have refused, you can try for a small business loan from First Step:

http://www.first-step.ie/

First-Step Microfinance provides loans of up to €25,000 to start up or expanding new businesses.

First-Step provides loans to people who want to create their own enterprise and who cannot access funding, or sufficient funding, from other sources.