Noise limits and the Fuzz

Gary ITR

Sitting in traffic today and a Traffic Corps Landcruiser pulled up beside me then asked me to follow them to a car park around the corner, I followed and parked the car where they asked me to. I was then informed that my car was going to have the noise limit tested, all was explained clearly and politely. After a bit of faffing about, my car will only rev to 3400 at standstill and the test is carried out at 3750 RPM, we got the car tested, it just about passed and tbh if it wasn't for the rev limit it probably would have failed.

What struck me the most was the two lads were really sound about the whole thing and really polite, I think they could see I wasn't a messer and don't act the idiot in the car so that's possibly why I got off lightly.

So credit where it's due, well done to the GTC on a job well done, I am glad there is a crackdown on stupidly modified cars and thanks for leaving us responsible modders alone

biko

So they test at 3750? Did they test for 99dB? Distance from car?

I never really go over 3500.
Will have to try it out, I have a dB meter on my phone.

Btw, a dB explanation in case anyone wonders

andyseadog

i still don't get loud exhausts :pac:

Muckie

Didn't know the Gardai were actually doing this.

As a matter of interest what type of car do you drive OP.

Have an Impreza myself, fitted with a bung so as not to annoy the

neighbours!

Guess "super awesome road warriors" better look out to :pac:.

Mena

andyseadog wrote: »

i still don't get loud exhausts :pac:

How is this not the best sound every, anywhere? :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk

Well hung

Onkle wrote: »

Sitting in traffic today and a Traffic Corps Landcruiser pulled up beside me then asked me to follow them to a car park around the corner, I followed and parked the car where they asked me to. I was then informed that my car was going to have the noise limit tested, all was explained clearly and politely. After a bit of faffing about, my car will only rev to 3400 at standstill and the test is carried out at 3750 RPM, we got the car tested, it just about passed and tbh if it wasn't for the rev limit it probably would have failed.

What struck me the most was the two lads were really sound about the whole thing and really polite, I think they could see I wasn't a messer and don't act the idiot in the car so that's possibly why I got off lightly.

So credit where it's due, well done to the GTC on a job well done, I am glad there is a crackdown on stupidly modified cars and thanks for leaving us responsible modders alone

What car is it?

Do you have an aftermarket exhaust, which one?

andyseadog

is sounds nice, but why do you need a loud exhaust? is it the 'look at me' factor? or the very small amount of bhp that can be squeezed from it?

i must admit, my car on its standard toyota exhaust has a nice "bbrrrrrr" from it, it sounds appealing to my ears, and i don't look like a knob jockey to passers by and even my standard exhaust noise bugs me a bit when cruising at 60/ 70 mph, i can only imagine how irritating a loud system must be

sorry, but theres nothing more annoying than a noisy exhaust. keep it for the track.

if your engine can produce the growl then cool, but anybody can slap on a fart cannon.

Matt Simis

Any chance you can grab one of the iPhone db monitors so we can compare "at home"?
Did they tell you what the "procedure" for it failing is?

CiniO

Mena wrote: »

How is this not the best sound every, anywhere? :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk

That was a cure for my ears
Lovely...

Tefral

Ive no doubt they tested you for the sake of testing you.

The fact is there are VERY few places in Ireland a roadside test can be done legally by the Gardai. The law of the land states that your car cannot exceed 74dB this test has to be done under very strict conditions, of which I certainly doubt yours was done right under.

smellslikeshoes

What I don't get about this law is how do cars that are built loud fit into it.
I understand it's to stop the twats in Civics speeding around estates at night waking everyone up.
But say for instance a classic big capacity Muscle car, would you be fined for driving one of these?

Gary ITR

It's a Honda Integra TypeR fitted with a Buddyclub Pro Spec exhaust. If the car fails it's deemed 'unroadworthy' and can't be driven. Believe it or not I was actually on my way to Urban Per4mance to collect a bung and have my road tyres put back on, I was on track last week.

The Guard had a metre stick type thing that he used and placed the device roughly a metre away, he told me they measure wind noise first and the device takes all of this into account. I have no doubt I was stopped just for the sake of it but I have no problem with that as long as I'm shown common courtesy(which I was) and am not treated like a criminal (which I wasn't) so I had no problem with it

Tefral

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

What I don't get about this law is how do cars that are built loud fit into it.
I understand it's to stop the twats in Civics speeding around estates at night waking everyone up.
But say for instance a classic big capacity Muscle car, would you be fined for driving one of these?

My research of this is that if your car exceeds a certain amount from factory your provided with a certificate of this and this gets you off the hook.

The worst of this is all is that they cant retrospecively apply a law that was passed in June 2008 to older cars which is what they are doing.

Unless, they are testing the 99dB as applied to the NCT to cars older 2008.

Gary ITR

cronin_j wrote: »

Unless, they are testing the 99dB as applied to the NCT to cars older 2008.

That seemed to be the case, I was asked if my exhaust was removed for the NCT, my last NCT was done before this rule came into effect

knifey_spoonie

God bless launch control .

I find loud exhausts ain't the probelm its the tit thats driving the car its attached to.

The funniest thing i have ever seen was one sunny saturday afternoon, I was driving down a one way street, there was a civic stoped ahead of me in the middle of the road reving to about 5000 RPM, egging on the punters i suppose. Some people need a good dose of cop on.

Tefral

Onkle wrote: »

That seemed to be the case, I was asked if my exhaust was removed for the NCT, my last NCT was done before this rule came into effect

This is the wierd thing, the NCT test falls under law however, to be law abiding all you have to have is the NCT. Now we all know that the NCT is only a test of the car on the day, ive put in my cat and taken it out straight out after the test. So the NCT is a joke in this regard. But the contents of the NCT test are not subject to a law. I maybe corrected on this though.

Heres the information I put togther for Midnightclub.ie for it

Garda Decibel Meter Laws
Right after reading this thread I decided to investigate further into this matter.

I’m sure most of ye know how EU Directives are transposed into Irish Law. When an EU Directive is made they are put into Irish law by means of a Statutory Instrument (S.I)

So the Original Council Directive that dealt with this sound testing is: DIRECTIVE 70/157/EEC

This then was ignored by most countries and became more comprehensive in 2007 by the last amendment: 2007/34/EC.


Then only on the 27th of June last year (08) did it become transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 195 of 2008 EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES (MECHANICALLY PROPELLED VEHICLE ENTRY INTO SERVICE) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2008
So that’s no really relevant to us unless you were caught last year before 27th June.

So what does this mean to the Modifiers like us?: Basically they have put a stamp on the Maximum Noise Level in decibels.

The table here shows:

SOUND LEVEL OF MOVING VEHICLES
Limiting values
The sound level measured in accordance with the provisions of Annex III shall not exceed the following limits:
Vehicle categories: Values expressed in dB(A)
Vehicles intended for the carriage of passengers, and comprising not more than nine seats including the driver's seat | 74dB |
Vehicles intended for the carriage of passengers and equipped with more than nine seats, including the driver's seat; and having a maximum permissible mass of more than 3,5 tonnes and:
with an engine power of less than 150 kW | 78dB |
with an engine power of not less than 150 kW | 80dB |
Vehicles intended for the carriage of passengers and equipped with more than nine seats, including the driver's seat; vehicles intended for the carriage of goods:
with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 2 tonnes | 76dB |
with a maximum permissible mass exceeding 2 tonnes but not exceeding 3,5 tonnes | 77dB |
Vehicles intended for the carriage of goods and having a maximum permissible mass exceeding 3,5 tonnes:
with an engine power of less than 75 kW | 77dB |
with an engine power of not less than 75 kW but less than 150 kW | 78dB |
with an engine power of not less than 150 kW | 80dB |

However
- the limit values are increased by 1 dB(A) if they are equipped with a direct injection diesel engine,
- for vehicles with a maximum permissible mass of over two tonnes designed for off-road use, the limit values are increased by 1 dB(A) if their engine power is less than 150 kW and 2 dB(A) if their engine power is 150 kW or more,
- for vehicles in category 2.1.1, equipped with a manually operated gear box having more than four forward gears and with an engine developing a maximum power exceeding 140 kW/t and whose maximum power/maximum mass ratio exceeds 75 kW/t, the limit values are increased by 1 dB(A) if the speed at which the rear of the vehicle passes the line BB' in third gear is greater than 61 km/h.

Testing your car can take the form of two tests 1. A moving Test and 2. (the more likely) Stationary test.

MOVING TEST
At least two measurements shall be made on each side of the vehicle. Preliminary measurements may be made for adjustment purposes but shall be disregarded.
The microphone shall be situated 1.2 metres above ground level at a distance of 7.5 metres from the path of the vehicle's centre line, CC, measured along the perpendicular PP" to that line (Figure 1).
Two lines AA" and BB", parallel to line PP" and situated respectively 10 metres forward and 10 metres rearward of that line, shall be marked out on the test track. Vehicles shall approach line AA" at a steady speed, as specified below. The throttle shall then be fully-opened as rapidly as practicable and held in the fully-opened position until the rear of the vehicle (1) crosses line BB" ; the throttle shall then be closed again as rapidly as possible.
The maximum sound level recorded shall constitute the result of the measurement.

Vehicles with no gearbox
The vehicle shall approach line AA" at a steady speed corresponding to the lowest of the three following speeds: - an engine speed equal to three-quarters of the engine speed at which the engine develops its maximum power;
- an engine speed equal to three-quarters of the maximum engine speed permitted by the governor;
- 50 kilometres per hour.

Vehicles with a manually operated gearbox
The second gear in the gearbox must be engaged if the vehicle is fitted with a two-speed, three-speed or four-speed gearbox;
The third gear in the gearbox must be engaged if the box has more than four gears;
if the transmission has a double gear ratio (transfer gearbox or two-speed rear axle assembly), the gearbox must be engaged in the ratio allowing the highest vehicle speed.
The vehicle shall approach line AA" at a steady speed corresponding to the lowest of the following three speeds: - an engine speed equal to three-quarters of the engine speed at which the engine develops its maximum power;
- an engine speed equal to three-quarters of the maximum engine speed permitted by the governor;
- 50 kilometres per hour.

Vehicles with an automatic gearbox
The vehicle shall approach line AA" at a steady speed equal to the lowest of the following two speeds: - 50 kilometres per hour;
- three quarters of the maximum speed.
Where there is a choice, the "normal" selector position for town driving is to be used.
Interpretation of results To take account of inaccuracies in the measuring instruments, the result obtained from each measurement shall be determined by deducting 1 dB (A) from the meter reading.
The measurements shall be considered valid if the difference between two consecutive measurements on the same side of the vehicle does not exceed 2 dB (A). (1)If the vehicle includes a trailer or semi-trailer, these shall not be taken into account in determining when line BB" is crossed.

The highest sound level measured shall constitute the test result. Should that result exceed by 1 dB (A) the maximum permissible sound level for the category of vehicle tested, two further measurements shall be made. Three of the four measurements thus obtained must fall within the prescribed limits

Measurement of Stationary vechicles[/B]Measurement of noise of stationary vehicles Position of sound-level meter
Measurements shall be made at at a distance of 7 metres from the nearest surface of the vehicle.
The microphone shall be situated 1.2 metres above ground level.

Number of measurements
At least two measurements shall be made.

Vehicle test conditions
The engine of a vehicle without a speed governor shall be run at three-quarters of the rpm speed at which, according to the vehicle manufacturer, it develops its maximum power. The rpm speed of the engine shall be measured by means of an independent instrument, e.g. a roller bed and a tachometer. If the engine is fitted with a governor preventing the engine from exceeding the speed at which it develops its maximum power, it shall be run at the maximum speed permitted by the governor.
Before taking any measurements, the engine shall be brought to its normal running temperature

Interpretation of results
All sound-level readings recorded shall be given in the report.
The method used to calculate the engine power shall also be shown, where possible. The state of loading of the vehicle must also be given.
The measurements shall be considered valid if the difference between two consecutive measurements on the same side of the vehicle does not exceed 2 dB (A).
The maximum figure recorded shall constitute the result of the measurement.


Conditions of measurement
Measurements shall be made on unladen vehicles in a sufficiently silent and open area (ambient noise and wind noise at least 10 dB (A) below the noise being measured).
That area may take the form, for instance, of an open space of 50-metre radius having a central part of at least 20-metre radius which is practically level, surfaced with concrete, asphalt or similar material, and not covered with powdery snow, tall grass, loose soil or ashes.
The surface of the test track shall be such as not to cause excessive tyre noise. This condition applies only to measurement of the noise made by vehicles in motion.
Measurement shall be carried out in fine weather with little wind. No person other than the observer taking the readings from the apparatus may remain near the vehicle or the microphone, as the presence of spectators near either the vehicle or the microphone may considerably affect the readings from the apparatus. Marked fluctuations of the pointer which appear to be unrelated to the characteristics of the general sound level shall be ignored in taking readings

Gary ITR

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

God bless launch control .

Shut up ffs! It's eh... it's to stop some tit revving the stones off it while it's stationery Sure why would I want launch control :pac:

Cronin, I met will Noel Brett and he told me it was illegal to change a car for the NCT and then change it back again, now I don't know what legislation that falls under

Tefral

Onkle wrote: »

Shut up ffs! It's eh... it's to stop some tit revving the stones off it while it's stationery Sure why would I want launch control :pac:

Cronin, I met will Noel Brett and he told me it was illegal to change a car for the NCT and then change it back again, now I don't know what legislation that falls under so it may be clutching at straws

Well technically it is.. Ill research it a bit more to look at it.

Gary ITR

cronin_j wrote: »

Well technically it is.. Ill research it a bit more to look at it.

Does your Mugen system fall foul of the NCT?

Tefral

Onkle wrote: »

Does your Mugen system fall foul of the NCT?

Nope, with the Cat in your man said it was around 84dB. I remember him saying it was 84.something..it wont show on your Cert unless your failed though.

dr.fuzzenstein

Fairly sure it's 99db, but could be wrong.
It should be called the "oh, I don't like loud noises they make my ears bleed and I drop my icecream" or alternatively the "screaming ninny" law.

Tefral

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fairly sure it's 99db, but could be wrong.
It should be called the "oh, I don't like loud noises they make my ears bleed and I drop my icecream" or alternatively the "screaming ninny" law.

Its as Follows

NCT: 99db
2008 Passenger Vehicles into service act ammendment 2008: 74dB
Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles act 1963: Gardai descretion.

-Chris-

andyseadog wrote: »

is sounds nice, but why do you need a loud exhaust? is it the 'look at me' factor? or the very small amount of bhp that can be squeezed from it?

It's just a personal opinion, but I think he's compensating for something.


And judging by how loud his exhaust is, he's compensating a lot.



*lovely car, though

Gary ITR

-Chris- wrote: »

It's just a personal opinion, but I think he's compensating for something.


And judging by how loud his exhaust is, he's compensating a lot.



*lovely car, though

I'm not the one driving a 4x4 around South Dublin :pac: and I didn't see you rush to hand back my keys today

Fair play to the Gardai for being polite etc (which they should be anyway) but testing of exhaust noise like this is very cloudy legally.

About the noisy exhausts, there was a fairly loud SS cat back on a Celica I had a few years ago, it was not too bad but any night starting it up after 11pm I used to aware that it was a bit too loud, the SS exhaust on the ZT has the baffles from the OE exhaust in it. Engine is heard a tad more at higher revs than with the OE box but nothing at all you'd comment on.

dr.fuzzenstein

cronin_j wrote: »

Its as Follows
Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles act 1963: Gardai descretion.

There's another "Oirish" law.
How well will this stand up in the European central cord when Garda Seamus pleads his case with "I jusht thought t'was a little on de noisy side, t'was definitely louder than me uncles Massey Ferguson, so it was"
Judge: "Law overturned"

Tefral

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There's another "Oirish" law.
How well will this stand up in the European central cord when Garda Seamus pleads his case with "I jusht thought t'was a little on de noisy side, t'was definitely louder than me uncles Massey Ferguson, so it was"
Judge: "Law overturned"

In all cases where ive known people have been summond to court theres only one way ive seen it overturned. This im not willing to post here incase some scut who is a genuine nuisance googles it and this thread pops up.

The Gardas word has in all times been taken as gospel, save for the one way ive alluded to above.

In most cases anyway this law is used in a district court, so no precidents here could be used as its the lowest court in the land

mickydoomsux

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

God bless launch control .

I find loud exhausts ain't the probelm its the tit thats driving the car its attached to.

It's a combination of both.

Why stick an obnoxiously loud bean-tin exhaust on your turd-box 00 Civic with it's hilarious paint scheme and myriad bits of aftermarket plastic tat bolted to it? You just look like a moron who for some unfathomable wants to draw attention to the fact you've poured a fortune into tarting up your Grannys old car.

You're an audible nuisance to people who live anywhere near a road and the only people impressed with your tacky looking rollerskate are other like-minded buffoons and 16 year old girls.

sleepysniper

Do motorbikes fall into this?

sleepysniper

sleepysniper wrote: »

Do motorbikes fall into this?

Motorbikes have always been obliged to be correctly silenced, I don't know the ins and outs of it but both a friend and a lad I shared a house with years ago got some AGS attention for having race cans on their road bikes.

vectra

Question?

If they pulled in a car and asked to do the test.. How could they ensure a car is revving at 3750 IF the car has no rev counter??

Tefral

sleepysniper wrote: »

Do motorbikes fall into this?

NO.

Matt Simis

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You're an audible nuisance to people who live anywhere near a road and the only people impressed with your tacky looking rollerskate are other like-minded buffoons and 16 year old girls.

How do you see this affecting 60-70s vintage Corvettes, Mustangs, any Ferrari over 15years old and a smattering of the bigger German M cars?

They may sound much nicer than a beancan Civic, but they likely are just as noisey.

-Chris-

Onkle wrote: »

I'm not the one driving a 4x4 around South Dublin :pac: and I didn't see you rush to hand back my keys today

I only do it so the yummy mummies don't drive me off the road!

Considering I was barely able to start it, I don't think your keys were much use to me tbh.

I must get a "proper" spin in her one of these days - maybe next track day you're going to I'll come down and meet you (remembering to wear my best brown trousers, of course).

Gary ITR

vectra wrote: »

Question?

If they pulled in a car and asked to do the test.. How could they ensure a car is revving at 3750 IF the car has no rev counter??

He didn't use the revcounter, his little gizmo was able to tell him the RPM

-Chris- wrote: »

I only do it so the yummy mummies don't drive me off the road!

Considering I was barely able to start it, I don't think your keys were much use to me tbh.

I must get a "proper" spin in her one of these days - maybe next track day you're going to I'll come down and meet you (remembering to wear my best brown trousers, of course).

You're welcome to a spin any time you like dude

Gary ITR

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think their is a track day on Paddy's day if I remember correctly.

I can't make it, May 27th will be my next outing I'd imagine

vectra

Onkle wrote: »

He didn't use the revcounter, his little gizmo was able to tell him the RPM

Fair enough.;)

mickydoomsux

Matt Simis wrote: »

How do you see this affecting 60-70s vintage Corvettes, Mustangs, any Ferrari over 15years old and a smattering of the bigger German M cars?

Well, unless they have been deliberately "loudened", for lack of a better term, i don't see a huge problem. It's not like those types of cars are hugely prevalent and their owners are usually somewhat responsible and considerate.

Matt Simis

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Well, unless they have been deliberately "loudened", for lack of a better term, i don't see a huge problem. It's not like those types of cars are hugely prevalent and their owners are usually somewhat responsible and considerate.

Number of cars or consideration of their owners.. hmm, how will any of that matter if they are over the limit? In my case I tried 3 exhausts and the quietest of which is still louder than stock. Stock exhaust, if available (which afaik it isnt) would be EUR2500.

-Chris-

Onkle wrote: »

I can't make it, May 27th will be my next outing I'd imagine

Wanna lend me your car?? :D

Plug

Onkle wrote: »

He didn't use the revcounter, his little gizmo was able to tell him the RPM

How did he connect it?

Gary ITR

Plug wrote: »

How did he connect it?

He didn't, when he revved the car it came up on his screen. It's also worth nothing he took an average from 5 or so readings

Any measurement system that requires an average of 5 readings doesn't inspire confidence, the standard deviation of those readings would tell a lot about the merits or lack there of of the AGS dB test.

Mr.David

Active exhausts.

I think (could be wrong) Ferrari introduced them.....maybe on the 360?

Bypasses all this nonsense nicely

Matt Simis

Mr.David wrote: »

Active exhausts.

I think (could be wrong) Ferrari introduced them.....maybe on the 360?

Bypasses all this nonsense nicely

With the open/close plate thing? Yeah they are cool, I noted even my mothers 535d has one. Would can it be retrofitted to only work on pressure (the fancy ones know when you are flooring it via controls).

Gary ITR

RoverJames wrote: »

Any measurement system that requires an average of 5 readings doesn't inspire confidence, the standard deviation of those readings would tell a lot about the merits or lack there of of the AGS dB test.

Each reading was nearly identical though

Mr.David

Matt Simis wrote: »

With the open/close plate thing? Yeah they are cool, I noted even my mothers 535d has one. Would can it be retrofitted to only work on pressure (the fancy ones know when you are flooring it via controls).

Yeah thats the one alright. I don't see why they couldnt be retrofitted as you describe, but dont know if they are or not.

Onkle

Onkle wrote: »

Each reading was nearly identical though

can you remember how close they were ?

Gary ITR

All within .3 either side

Mr.David

Do you know what the final dB readings were?

Because dB is a logarithmic scale, 100dB is 10 times the sound intensity of 90db.

Similarly, if you take 99dB as the threshold, 96dB is half of that.

Because its not linear, although the final reading can look close to the limit in reality it probably isnt.

Mr.David

Onkle wrote: »

All within .3 either side

0.3 dB variation represents a 7% spread in sound intensity.

For instance 120dB represents a sound intensity level of 1W/m^2.

120.3 dB represents a sound intensity level of 1.07 W/m^2.

So that's a bigger error than it appears due to the log scale used.

And if its +/- 0.3dB then thats up to 14% error!!