Ban electric heaters

Daegerty

These must be one of the least efficient ways of heating a building with only about 30% of the energy making its way toward the heater. Even night surplus will be a thing of the past soon with electric cars and inter-connectors coming in.

Should the import & sale of the things be banned in Ireland? Maybe a tax on them instead because people are lured in by the low initial purchase price.

Judgement Day

How do you suggest that people without oil/gas or solid fuel heat their homes?

Daegerty

Judgement Day wrote: »

How do you suggest that people without oil/gas or solid fuel heat their homes?

they'd get it installed i suppose. even airsource heatpumps would be much better

Del2005

I live in an apartment with cheap POS electric storage heaters installed. It's against house rules for me to get gas and as I don't own the walls I can't install anything on them or alter them in any way.

When my heaters pack up what am I supposed to use?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get rid of them but have no option. But will be looking for more efficient ones when/if these die.

Mahatma coat

Jesus H Christ, Some people wont be happy till the entire population is living in one room mud houses with a Fcukin Pig

bedrock#1

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, Some people wont be happy till the entire population is living in one room mud houses with a Fcukin Pig

i think the OP is suggesting we do this before we actually end up in only mud houses, lucky to have a pig.....

i am not an advocate of the global warming quasi-religion that's being forced down our throats but it does make sense to limit the use of inefficient forms of heating but unlike the OP i reckon a more reasonable, gradual and considered course of action is required....

Something to ponder as heating/energy bills get steeper over the next while with the **** hitting the fan over yonder

edwinkane

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, Some people wont be happy till the entire population is living in one room mud houses with a Fcukin Pig

The assumption that electric heating is less effecient than oil or gas heating is interesting. Electric storage heating can be efficient and effective, and if powered by electricity generated by sources other than fossil fuels can be more environmentally friendly that oil or gas heating systems.

Outkast_IRE

Daegerty wrote: »

they'd get it installed i suppose. even airsource heatpumps would be much better

to even reccomend air source heatpumps shows how little you understand about the reality of irish homes , installing a air source heat pump in most irish homes would be a complete and utter waste of everybodys time and money , mostly due to

1.standard houses not well insulated enough, work on that first and retrofitting insualtion to the required level would be a huge job in most homes .
2. houses not air tight enough.
3. these systems work at low temps which means most people would need huge rads or get underfloor or a ventilation system which can distribute warmed air .

dont reccomend somethin you dont understand just cause you think its green !!!!!!!
i have been in houses which have had €1000 esb bills from these pumps , does that sound more green to you than having electric heaters.

Del2005

How efficient is the delivery of oil and gas to peoples homes?

It's not 100% efficient, use the electric car v's normal car calculations and how does electric heating come out.

MASTER...of the bra

"Electric heater" covers alot, do you mean these heaters aswell OP? These are actually pretty good.

Daegerty

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

"Electric heater" covers alot, do you mean these heaters aswell OP? These are actually pretty good.

Yes particularly those, they are very inefficient

Capt'n Midnight

electric fan heaters are great for instant localised heat

storage heaters are a disaster, maybe someone will sort out a system that links to the weather forecast so they can predict how much heat to store ??


Instead of banning heaters we should demand minimum standards of insulation in new commercial premesis

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

storage heaters are a disaster, maybe someone will sort out a system that links to the weather forecast so they can predict how much heat to store ??

Not a complete disaster, saved us a lot over the winter.

JONJO THE MISER

Thanks o.p just reminded me i have to get a second electric heater.

Macha

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Thanks o.p just reminded me i have to get a second electric heater.

This is not AH. Post constructively or don't post at all.

bryaner

Daegerty wrote: »

Yes particularly those, they are very inefficient

Actually their not inefficient when the stat is used in an efficient manner..

gbee

Daegerty wrote: »

TMaybe a tax on them instead because people are lured in by the low initial purchase price.

Have you actually run one? And your bill did not put you off?

djpbarry

Daegerty wrote: »

Yes particularly those, they are very inefficient

How so? Could you quantify this inefficiency in some way?

witchgirl26

Daegerty wrote: »

Yes particularly those, they are very inefficient

I don't think they're that inefficient if used properly. When my dad used to be alone in the house during the winter days (we'd either be at school or work - he was retired), he'd put one of those on in the room he was in, instead of turning on the heating for the entire house. Same with my granny when she was confined to one room. No point wasting gas & money heating the whole house instead of just the room you're in. It'd be like having every light on but only being in one room.

I think they are only inefficient if run incorrectly but lets face it - with everything costing so much money these days are people really going to run something so inefficiently?

SeanW

I have extensive experience of using electric convection heaters, both in a flat I rent in Dublin and in the family home in Longford.

My flat doesn't have central heating, and no fireplace. So it was here that I first started using electric heaters. They are very powerful and worth every cent: by producing hot air they're able to warm up a room in a very short time. Yet, even in the bad winter, my electric bills were quite reasonable, chiefly because I rationed my use of them carefully.

Back down the country, during the worst weather, the oh so efficient oil fired water-based central heating broke down - primarily because of the fact that it relies on water/liquid - and my mother had to use electric heating, either that or freeze to death in -17 degree ice. Even today, when I go back there I find that an electric air heater is able to heat a room in half an hour far better than what the central heating system can do over the course of a day. The house is much better insulated than my apartment, so that obviously helps make the better heater more efficient.

In short, banning electric heaters will accomplish less than nothing. Far better IMO to look at how our electricity is being produced.

Daegerty

SeanW wrote: »

I have extensive experience of using electric convection heaters, both in a flat I rent in Dublin and in the family home in Longford.

My flat doesn't have central heating, and no fireplace. So it was here that I first started using electric heaters. They are very powerful and worth every cent: by producing hot air they're able to warm up a room in a very short time. Yet, even in the bad winter, my electric bills were quite reasonable, chiefly because I rationed my use of them carefully.

Back down the country, during the worst weather, the oh so efficient oil fired water-based central heating broke down - primarily because of the fact that it relies on water/liquid - and my mother had to use electric heating, either that or freeze to death in -17 degree ice. Even today, when I go back there I find that an electric air heater is able to heat a room in half an hour far better than what the central heating system can do over the course of a day. The house is much better insulated than my apartment, so that obviously helps make the better heater more efficient.

In short, banning electric heaters will accomplish less than nothing. Far better IMO to look at how our electricity is being produced.

Alright I admit it. Twas a sh1t idea

rayh

SeanW wrote: »

I have extensive experience of using electric convection heaters, both in a flat I rent in Dublin and in the family home in Longford.

My flat doesn't have central heating, and no fireplace. So it was here that I first started using electric heaters. They are very powerful and worth every cent: by producing hot air they're able to warm up a room in a very short time. Yet, even in the bad winter, my electric bills were quite reasonable, chiefly because I rationed my use of them carefully.

Back down the country, during the worst weather, the oh so efficient oil fired water-based central heating broke down - primarily because of the fact that it relies on water/liquid - and my mother had to use electric heating, either that or freeze to death in -17 degree ice. Even today, when I go back there I find that an electric air heater is able to heat a room in half an hour far better than what the central heating system can do over the course of a day. The house is much better insulated than my apartment, so that obviously helps make the better heater more efficient.

In short, banning electric heaters will accomplish less than nothing. Far better IMO to look at how our electricity is being produced.

In your and others the replies to this topic appear to address the issue against a number of criteria:
1. Convenience and versatility of the systems - easily moved around and to confine the space heating area.
2. Reaction time to heat space.
3. Monetary Cost
Now in your post you have introduced the issues around electricity generation which I must support but as this line of consideration is probably best considered off topic at this time.
The various replies to this topic in one way highlight the versatility of electric energy to meet the numerous requirements we have today in our daily lives to provide heat energy and in response how society has developed the numerous systems to meet these demands. However it is my view that this complexity has somewhat clouded the real issues like;
1. Heat generation v conservation
2. Monetary costs v real costs.
Both of these issues can be clearly exhibited when you consider the issues around Electric Storage heating systems. Systems generally installed in low income local authority housing schemes (the subject of considerable publicity within your native local authority) to use low cost electricity during the non heating periods and transported into the heating period. A heat energy process installed in houses of poor thermal performance and principally motivated by monetary energy cost system.
While the subject of this topic is a poll on “BAN ON ELECTRIC HEATERS”, the real question is in what criteria we set in deciding the real costs of energy conservation both now and into the future.

mlumley

Daegerty wrote: »

they'd get it installed i suppose. even airsource heatpumps would be much better

Great if they owened their home, dont think my landlord will get it in though. Maybe he'll put a wind turbine in the garden, whooops, forgot, I dont have a garden, or gas. So I think I'll chop down loads and loads of trees. Sorry but there is a lot of siht going around with this green agenda stuff. The world has gone through heating and cooling for millions of years. 10000 years ago Ireland was under a mile of ice. a couple of years ago the Thames froze over so much people had fairs on it. Try smelling some coffee. Dont get me on to glaciers, thats a proven lot of crap.

mlumley

bedrock#1 wrote: »

i think the OP is suggesting we do this before we actually end up in only mud houses, lucky to have a pig.....

i am not an advocate of the global warming quasi-religion that's being forced down our throats but it does make sense to limit the use of inefficient forms of heating but unlike the OP i reckon a more reasonable, gradual and considered course of action is required....

Something to ponder as heating/energy bills get steeper over the next while with the **** hitting the fan over yonder

I would have thought that with John Gormless and his crowd of I'm alright jack but fcuk you friends, this issue would have been sorted out at the planning stage, ie, make it illegal to install this type of heating in flats and houses. But all they wanted us to do was pay more taxes till we had to got back to mud huts and open fires. Thank God ( if he exists) that the people of this country saw scence and got rid of the idiots.

mlumley

Del2005 wrote: »

How efficient is the delivery of oil and gas to peoples homes?

It's not 100% efficient, use the electric car v's normal car calculations and how does electric heating come out.

Thats like comparing dogs and cats. You cant heat a house with an electric car. Factor in insulation needed in the house, new window doord to get an air tight seal. Then heat exchanger systems to heat cold air comming in. Then the footprint of the manufactoring of all these systems and insulations and the actual cost of them and you will find it does not add up. But I hope you fare well heating your home off of an electric car.

mlumley

Someone said that interconecters will help us.
1)How is that energy produced?
2(Where is it comming from?

Well, answer one is Nuclear and fossil.
No: 2 is, the UK.
They use a lot of nuclear power stations to produce electricity.
Are we only going to accept electricity from fosil fueld power stations, how can you tell?
Ireland will run out of peat.
All out energy will have to come from some where. Where? Ardnacrusher?
Dont cite Japan as its a diferen case, earth quakes etc. We will either have to rely on power from a forign nation, made from Nuclear energy, of build them ourselves and be self reliant. I know that there are risks involved with nuclear power. But as most people like using the, it's safer than crossing the road. I say build them ourselves and save paying a forign country to do it for us.

Del2005

mlumley wrote: »

Thats like comparing dogs and cats. You cant heat a house with an electric car. Factor in insulation needed in the house, new window doord to get an air tight seal. Then heat exchanger systems to heat cold air comming in. Then the footprint of the manufactoring of all these systems and insulations and the actual cost of them and you will find it does not add up. But I hope you fare well heating your home off of an electric car.

You missed the point entirely. I never have any intention of heating my house with an electric car. I can't even own one if I was daft enough wanted to.

What I was trying to point out was that even thought people say electric heating isn't the best way of heating a home how do we know oil and gas are.

While the boilers may be able to operate at 90%+, oil and gas aren't delivered 100% efficiently to peoples homes.

I think someone posted here that an electric cars CO2 output is ~70g/km and if you take into account the infrastructure to get the oil to the pumps even low emission cars are 200+g/km.

So we need to compare the total efficiency of the system for generating and delivering electricity to the home v's extracting and delivering oil/gas to the home, then take into account how efficiently they convert this to heat in the home. Not just look at home.

Tomk1

Daegerty wrote: »

Even night surplus will be a thing of the past soon with electric cars and inter-connectors coming in.

Think I'll wait till 2016 and bet the rush.

Capt'n Midnight

djpbarry wrote: »

How so? Could you quantify this inefficiency in some way?

some of the electricity is turned into something that isn't heat ??


central heating systems pipe water around the house and few have insulated pipes all the way around so are lossy, also the practice of having radiators under windows means a lot of heat is lost to the outside compared to having them located on an internal wall where lost heat would at least stay in the building

djpbarry

mlumley wrote: »

Sorry but there is a lot of siht going around with this green agenda stuff. The world has gone through heating and cooling for millions of years. 10000 years ago Ireland was under a mile of ice. a couple of years ago the Thames froze over so much people had fairs on it. Try smelling some coffee. Dont get me on to glaciers, thats a proven lot of crap.

Less of the off-topic ranting please.

Pure Sound

I said yes but I don't totally agree, I think that inefficient heaters should be phased out but not all electric heaters, as someone else has said some of the electric heaters are quite efficient and they are essential for some people to live. If we stop selling heaters that are inefficient it could greatly reduce energy use throughout the country.

In businesses, accountability is the key to things like this, I have come across retail premises and hotels that have inefficient electric heaters as there only heat source yet they openly advertise/claim to be environmentally aware/friendly and do things to make it look like they are so that the customer falls for it. Stopping this kind of pretentious practice is far more important then a ban of the heaters altogether in my opinion. The BER/DEC will hopefully put a stop to this though..