Learners Permit Out Of Date

jake10111

I was stopped recently at a check point. I had insurance and tax. I didn't have my licence on me. So i was asked to produce it within ten days. I have now realised that my 3rd learners permit is out of date. What would be the implications of my learners permit been out of date. I didnt have a full licenced holder with me also but he didnt ask me. I have re-applied for a new learners permit. Has anybody been in the same position as me. Should i produce my new learners permit when i get it or wait to see what the summons i get.

Zambia

jake10111 wrote: »

I was stopped recently at a check point. I had insurance and tax. I didn't have my licence on me. So i was asked to produce it within ten days. I have now realised that my 3rd learners permit is out of date. What would be the implications of my learners permit been out of date.

You were driving unlicenced. You did not have a licence so I assume you where also not insured.

jake10111 wrote: »

I didnt have a full licenced holder with me

On your 3rd learner are you meant to ? I don't know since the change.

jake10111 wrote: »

also but he didnt ask me.

Did you tell him you where on a third learners?

jake10111 wrote: »

I have re-applied for a new learners permit.

That's good

jake10111 wrote: »

Has anybody been in the same position as me. Should i produce my new learners permit when i get it or wait to see what the summons i get.

Do what the Garda told you to do produce your licence or lack of in 10 days.

If not go see a solicitor. Actually do that first ....yeah do that first.

Welcome to boards.

Paulw

You won't be able to produce your license in 10 working days since you don't have a license at all.

You were also driving unaccompanied.

Your best bet is to go to the Garda station and explain.

Either way, you'll most likely be charged with driving without a valid license, driving while unaccompanied (on a learner's permit, although it expired) and possibly for having invalid insurance (since you didn't have a valid license holder with you). At best you might get 5 penalty points and a large fine.

Our man in Havana

The no insurance charge would be a crock.

If you look at an insurance cert it says provided the person holds a licence or having held a licence and is not disqualified from holding a licence you are covered.

Paulw

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The no insurance charge would be a crock.

If you look at an insurance cert it says provided the person holds a licence or having held a licence and is not disqualified from holding a licence you are covered.

But, the OP never held a valid license, since the OP has clearly stated that they have only had a learners permit (3).

krd

Paulw wrote: »

But, the OP never held a valid license, since the OP has clearly stated that they have only had a learners permit (3).

An Irish learners permit is a provisional license. It's accept by insurers as a license.

coylemj

Paulw wrote: »

But, the OP never held a valid license, since the OP has clearly stated that they have only had a learners permit (3).

This has been discussed endlessly over on the Motors forum. Once you have ever held a licence (and the insurance industry consider a learner's permit a flavour of a licence) and are not disqualified then you are always insured provided of course that the insurance company know that you have never passed the test i.e. you gave accurate information when taking out the policy.

To my knowledge no Irish insurance company imposes that condition (must have a current licence to be covered) on the main policy holder. Most of them do for open driving but the main driver and named drivers do not have such a condition imposed on them.

There is a public policy issue here. If a person's insurance was invalidated simply by their licence being out of date, there would be an additional few thousand claims against the Motor Insurance Bureau (or whatever it's called) every year by people with no insurance and people would be paying for non-existent coverage.

deisedevil

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm wondering what the implications are of driving with no L-plates and no full licensed driver are while on learner permit? (might also apply to OP)

If Garda stops you then it would seem to me that you are better off saying nothing about what type of license you have, unless asked directly(i.e. not a full license) and then you can call into Garda station within 10 days and show your license and should be fine.

Is that the case or would the Garda who pulled you check to see what type of license you came in with and then check his notes to see if he wrote down that you had no L-Plates and no fully licensed driver with you? I doubt they would even have checked any of that or would bother checking back to see what the license was as long as you were able to produce a valid one.

Our man in Havana

Things are not that simple. They can and do check these things.

Two of the standard routine questions are "Do you have a driving licence?" and "What type is it?"

Kosseegan

coylemj wrote: »

There is a public policy issue here. If a person's insurance was invalidated simply by their licence being out of date, there would be an additional few thousand claims against the Motor Insurance Bureau (or whatever it's called) every year by people with no insurance and people would be paying for non-existent coverage.

There is no public policy issue here. Under directive 84/5 EC a claim from a third party cannot be refused because the driver does not have a licence. There is no claim against the MIBI because it is dealt with as an insured claim. there is nothing to stop the insurance company seeking to recover the money paid out from the policy holder for breach of contract however.

deisedevil

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Things are not that simple. They can and do check these things.

Two of the standard routine questions are "Do you have a driving licence?" and "What type is it?"

I'm not saying they are that simple.

I know two people over the last year or so with Learner Permits who were stopped, asked for license, said they didn't have it with them and were asked to drop it in within 10 days, were never asked what kind of license, just if they had one. They did and never heard anything more about it.

So the point I'm making is that it would seem that if you are not asked what type of license then your better off saying you don't have it with you and going into station with it. Seems to be more of a chance that they wouldn't even notice you weren't following the learner permit rules.

Do you know for a fact that all these things are checked down to the last detail and that a Garda goes over every single one of these correctly? Because if they don't (as I have seen happen myself) then you are better off saying you have no license on you and chance that they won't check everything in detail later or won't make note of l-plates or the fact you were on your own.

If they ask for license and you produce it there and then you have no chance.

Our man in Havana

Kosseegan wrote: »

There is no public policy issue here. Under directive 84/5 EC a claim from a third party cannot be refused because the driver does not have a licence. The is not claim against the MIBI because it is dealt with as an insured claim. there is nothing to stop the insurance company seeking to recover the money p[aid out from the policy holder for breach of contract however.

This seems to be a point forgotten by the hang 'em high brigade. "Oh noes your insurance is no good because of xyz etc etc". The fact is the insurance company must pay out to the 3rd party every time. If they then want to sue the person who lied etc that is their own issue.

coylemj

Kosseegan wrote: »

there is nothing to stop the insurance company seeking to recover the money paid out from the policy holder for breach of contract however.

There is nothing in my policy which says that my licence must be current so if you mean that if I have an accident and the insurance company pays out, they can then come after me for the money simply because my licence was expired, that is rubbish.

Name an Irish insurance company that writes that condition into their motor policies.