Article: Crackdown on tinted windows and noisy engines

Seth Brundle

Boy racers will be fined up to €1,000 if they are caught driving a car with blacked-out windows and engines that exceed the allowed noise limits, as part of a new garda crackdown. Gardai are carrying out roadside tests on customised cars to see if tinted windows and loud exhausts comply with safety rules introduced last year as part of the National Car Test (NCT).
The owners of cars that fail the tests face prosecution and fines of up to €1,000, and/or a prison sentence, if they refuse to fix the problem.
Excessively-tinted windscreens pose a significant safety hazard because motorists cannot see optimally in poor light or while driving at night.
Exhausts
Loud exhausts are associated with boy racers, and are the cause of numerous complaints to gardai.
Yesterday, two new pieces of equipment were unveiled to help gardai mount a major crackdown: Tintman light monitors and noise-level meters will be used during roadside checks.
"Silencers are being modified and levels above 99 decibels can result in prosecution," said assistant commissioner John Twomey .
"Excessive tinting is a safety issue, and a car (which fails the test) can be considered defective and the driver can be told to park it up for the night."
As a result, the windows would have to be changed and the vehicle then produced at a station, for the driver to continue driving.
The crackdown comes as new figures show that the number of people killed on the roads has risen in the first few months of 2011.
According to the garda press office, 45 people have been killed so far this year.
This is an increase of 12 on the same period in 2010.
New figures also show:

• The number of pedestrians killed has risen by 3.5pc, and motorcycle fatalities are up 6pc.
• Some 2,000 people have been issued with penalty points for not wearing a seatbelt, and another 5,500 for the illegal use of a mobile phone while they are driving.
• 47,254 speeding notices were issued last year, up 139pc on 2009.
• There were 11,000 checkpoints last year, resulting in 88,240 people being breath- tested -- an increase of 44pc.
• 1,845 people were arrested for drink-driving.

However, there has been a fall in the number of people drinking and driving. In 2007, one in every 200 drivers tested at checkpoints was positive. Today, it's one in 588.
- Paul Melia
Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/crackdown-on-tinted-windows-and-noisy-engines-2575536.html

syklops

From a safety point of view, what is the problem with tinted windows?

qz

syklops wrote: »

From a safety point of view, what is the problem with tinted windows?

Not being able to see out adequately when natural lighting is poor. Like walking around with sunglasses on at night, you're bound to bump into something.

Cookie_Monster

syklops wrote: »

From a safety point of view, what is the problem with tinted windows?

They reduced light transmission, especially at dusk reducing you vision. Also means you cannot see who's in the car and what they have, meaning you can potentially hide weapons or people in the car from Gardai.

^but thats going to the extreme...

about time with the exhausts though

xFROSTY Gx

So basically if your stopped for excessivly tinted windows(front windows) your just going to be made peel off the tint? And if you don't you could face a fine or prison sentence.

I doubt most people with tints will feel threatened by this "crackdown".

You could just re-tint the windows which is just like getting a 70-80 euro fine:rolleyes:

Wolverine_1999

xFROSTY Gx wrote: »

So basically if your stopped for excessivly tinted windows(front windows) your just going to be made peel off the tint? And if you don't you could face a fine or prison sentence.

I doubt most people with tints will feel threatened by this "crackdown".

You could just re-tint the windows which is just like getting a 70-80 euro fine:rolleyes:

Tints most wouldn't be too concerned about... having all those loud exhausts (modified) torched I don't think anyone will argue with.

KamiKazi

According to the garda press office, 45 people have been killed so far this year.
This is an increase of 12 on the same period in 2010.

Those expensive new "safety cameras" are really doing their job then eh? :rolleyes:

biko

I guess it gives the garda powers to stop and check any boy racer car with tints and a big feck-off exhaust.
I'm all for it, the feckers race close to where I live and I can hear them at night burning up and down the dual carriageway.

seaniefr

About time! But my question is- will they actually enforce it? or will it be another law custom made for a particular problem but never followed up on like everything else. Will they give the guards the resources?

Tintman light monitors and noise-level meters will be used during roadside checks.
"Silencers are being modified and levels above 99 decibels can result in prosecution," said assistant commissioner John Twomey .



How are they going to check the exhaust is above or below 99db on the roadside, epic AGS fail, well done John Twomey.

-Chris-

I presume they measure it at a specific set of revs, which can be done as easily at the roadside as it is when driving.

bijapos

I'm in favour of banning both. My classic car got hit by a car with tinted windows which then fecked off, when the cops tracked him down he denied driving it, said it had been nicked at the time. Solicitor said I had no chance prosecuting him for hit and run as I never saw him. Incident happened at 8.30 on a Sunday morning in May.


Regarding the exhausts, I think they are going the wrong way about it. How do you check revs if the rev counter is disconnected? Or are the Guards just going to get in and give the accelerator a blast?

A better solution would be to phase out loud exhausts through the NCT over 2-4 years. Countries like Switzerland and Germany ban the sale of these modified exhausts for road cars. If you modify the exhaust you have to have a paper from the manufacturer of the mod saying it complies with existing rules. Introduce the same here. What the Germans allow, we should allow, what they ban so should we.

And the fine should not just be cash but ban them for 3-6 months to boot.

Satanta

* The number of pedestrians killed has risen by 3.5pc, and motorcycle fatalities are up 6pc.
* Some 2,000 people have been issued with penalty points for not wearing a seatbelt, and another 5,500 for the illegal use of a mobile phone while they are driving.
* 47,254 speeding notices were issued last year, up 139pc on 2009.
* There were 11,000 checkpoints last year, resulting in 88,240 people being breath- tested -- an increase of 44pc.
* 1,845 people were arrested for drink-driving.

Jeez... all because of tinted windows and loud exhausts :eek:

Matt Simis

You cannot accurately measure sound in an open and above all completely uncontrolled environment. The very fact the NCT test is completely different will also mean there will be a disparity between AGS roadside and NCT results (one fail one pass which is correct?)


Im also concerned my car could fail such half assed impromptu testing, and this is the quietest exhaust I could get and isnt some jumped up $hit box purposely made louder:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mattsimis#p/a/u/1/tPjSUc5-S5Y

Quieter now with the Cats out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mattsimis#p/a/u/0/ghYOeUcej9c

Wolverine_1999

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

... having all those loud exhausts (modified) torched I don't think anyone will argue with.

Yeah because loud exhausts are cause such a danger on the road...:rolleyes:

As far as I know tests on exhaust noise have to be done at a certain distance and the car should only be revved to fairly low revs. People may be surprised to know that the vast majority of performance exhausts will pass the test, I have seen incredibly loud exhausts tested and passing.

bijapos wrote: »

And the fine should not just be cash but ban them for 3-6 months to boot.

Cop yourself on, why should someone be banned for 3-6 months for a loud exhaust, its has absolutely nothing to do with road safety. I have nothing against classics but your car is likely a much bigger danger on the roads: no nct required, poor braking, poor crash safety etc.

bijapos

Oaklyn Dry Bologna wrote: »

Yeah because loud exhausts are cause such a danger on the road...:rolleyes:

Cop yourself on, why should someone be banned for 3-6 months for a loud exhaust, its has absolutely nothing to do with road safety.

Because they are a complete and utter pain in the fucking arse for the vast majority of the people in this country. Thats why. Its nothing to do with road safety. They're a public nuisance.

Atomic Pineapple

bijapos wrote: »

I'm in favour of banning both. My classic car got hit by a car with tinted windows which then fecked off, when the cops tracked him down he denied driving it, said it had been nicked at the time. Solicitor said I had no chance prosecuting him for hit and run as I never saw him. Incident happened at 8.30 on a Sunday morning in May.


Regarding the exhausts, I think they are going the wrong way about it. How do you check revs if the rev counter is disconnected? Or are the Guards just going to get in and give the accelerator a blast?

A better solution would be to phase out loud exhausts through the NCT over 2-4 years. Countries like Switzerland and Germany ban the sale of these modified exhausts for road cars. If you modify the exhaust you have to have a paper from the manufacturer of the mod saying it complies with existing rules. Introduce the same here. What the Germans allow, we should allow, what they ban so should we.

And the fine should not just be cash but ban them for 3-6 months to boot.

Are you joking? That has to be one of the most ill thought out suggestions I've ever come across on this forum.

Should we allow parts of the motorways to be unlimited as well?

You do realise that even a car with a loud exhaust can be driven quietly don't you? Hence its the driver who is at fault for causing a nuisance. And punishing others for someone acting like a dick is a typical Irish and draconian way of looking at things.

Also you do realise that technically if you use a spurious part on your car you've modified it? So your suggestion would mean people would be only allowed replace parts specifically from manufacturers.

This is a bit of a none story anyway seeing as the Gardai don't require the use of a decibel reader to summon anyone for a loud exhaust, it just has to be loud in their opinion.

seaniefr

RoverJames wrote: »

Tintman light monitors and noise-level meters will be used during roadside checks.
"Silencers are being modified and levels above 99 decibels can result in prosecution," said assistant commissioner John Twomey .



How are they going to check the exhaust is above or below 99db on the roadside, epic AGS fail, well done John Twomey.

maybe they could refer it for a garage test like they used to do with the drink driving roadside test where they brought you back to the station for a blood or urine test. Noise level meters are pretty effective where the level would be well in excess of 99dB. I would imagine they are not too concerned about the ones floating around the 99dB mark

stephendevlin

qz wrote: »

Not being able to see out adequately when natural lighting is poor. Like walking around with sunglasses on at night, you're bound to bump into something.

I had heavy tinted windows in my last car only at night did I have a problem sometimes when reversing but I mean if your in a van or a lorry?? You have the same problem.

seaniefr

stephendevlin wrote: »

I had heavy tinted windows in my last car only at night did I have a problem sometimes when reversing but I mean if your in a van or a lorry?? You have the same problem.

thats why the fitting of reversing camera's is mandatory in construction vehicles not sure about vans think it would be a good idea all round!

Atomic Pineapple

seaniefr wrote: »

thats why the fitting of reversing camera's is mandatory in construction vehicles not sure about vans think it would be a good idea all round!

Proper use of mirrors is all thats required, I drove a van for awhile with no back windows at all and got on fine.

Besides, rear windows can be tinted to whatever you like.

bijapos

draffodx wrote: »

Are you joking? That has to be one of the most ill thought out suggestions I've ever come across on this forum.

Should we allow parts of the motorways to be unlimited as well?

You do realise that even a car with a loud exhaust can be driven quietly don't you? Hence its the driver who is at fault for causing a nuisance. And punishing others for someone acting like a dick is a typical Irish and draconian way of looking at things.

Also you do realise that technically if you use a spurious part on your car you've modified it? So your suggestion would mean people would be only allowed replace parts specifically from manufacturers.

Maybe You didn't understand me or I didn't explain it better.

What happens is that in those countries an after market company (Not the original manufacturer) who manufacturers a new exhaust and puts it on the market has to show that it complies with existing noise legislation. When you buy the exhaust you also get a piece of paper that you must carry with you in the car to show that it complies with the law.

Other components such as wheels and tyres that are different to the original spec have to be entered on the log book.

Bigcheeze

Matt Simis wrote: »

You cannot accurately measure sound in an open and above all completely uncontrolled environment. The very fact the NCT test is completely different will also mean there will be a disparity between AGS roadside and NCT results (one fail one pass which is correct?)

If the sensor is placed in the exhaust, outside noise isn't going to distort the results. If it measures above 99db when revved in either the AGS or NCT test, that's good enough. It doesn't need to be done in a bloody lab!

Atomic Pineapple

bijapos wrote: »

Maybe You didn't understand me or I didn't explain it better.

What happens is that in those countries an after market company (Not the original manufacturer) who manufacturers a new exhaust and puts it on the market has to show that it complies with existing noise legislation. When you buy the exhaust you also get a piece of paper that you must carry with you in the car to show that it complies with the law.

Other components such as wheels and tyres that are different to the original spec have to be entered on the log book.

Total overkill and not required for Ireland. As I said in my last post, punishing everyone rather than targeting the people who cause the issue is a backwards way of thinking.

Many times I've posted on here that a law surrounding anti social behavior in a motor vehicle is what should be brought in that targets the people actually causing a nuisance and doesn't punish someone who wants to modify their car and not drive it like a numpty.

The same already happens here anyway when you buy an exhaust you have the choice of buying an ECC comliant one however you also have the choice to buy non ECC compliant exhausts for track, drag, drift use.

Once someone isn't causing a nuisance then there is no problem whether the exhaust is ECC compliant or not. Stopping someone from buying a noise exhaust wont stop there being arse holes on the road causing a nuisance.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

If the sensor is placed in the exhaust, outside noise isn't going to distort the results. If it measures above 99db when revved in either the AGS or NCT test, that's good enough. It doesn't need to be done in a bloody lab!

It cant be placed in the exhaust, regulations state the measurement should be taken from a certain angle a certain distance away from the exhaust.

Stinicker

Good and about time they were banned. Personally I think anyone who needs a loud exhaust on their car is some way mentally deficient. I have to endure a dick head neighbour with a clapped out Honda revving the hell out of his car near my home often at 1am.

I will be reporting him to the gaurds now in light of this and I have had to endure this for six months since the little w@nker started driving as he is only about 18. It has taken extreme restraint on my own half not to crack on the issue as it is not about driving or laws, it is scumbaggery and anti social behaviour of the highest order.

stephendevlin

seaniefr wrote: »

thats why the fitting of reversing camera's is mandatory in construction vehicles not sure about vans think it would be a good idea all round!

I saw a program a couple of years back even jeeps have bother reversing, they stood 8 children in a line behind the jeep and the person inside still could not see anything

Atomic Pineapple

Stinicker wrote: »

Good and about time they were banned.

Whats been banned? No laws have changed.

The Muppet

KamiKazi wrote: »

According to the garda press office, 45 people have been killed so far this year.
This is an increase of 12 on the same period in 2010.

Those expensive new "safety cameras" are really doing their job then eh? :rolleyes:

I wonder how many of those have deaths have been cause by tinted windows and loud exhaust's.

seaniefr

draffodx wrote: »

Total overkill and not required for Ireland. As I said in my last post, punishing everyone rather than targeting the people who cause the issue is a backwards way of thinking.

Many times I've posted on here that a law surrounding anti social behavior in a motor vehicle is what should be brought in that targets the people actually causing a nuisance and doesn't punish someone who wants to modify their car and not drive it like a numpty.

The same already happens here anyway when you buy an exhaust you have the choice of buying an ECC comliant one however you also have the choice to buy non ECC compliant exhausts for track, drag, drift use.

Once someone isn't causing a nuisance then there is no problem whether the exhaust is ECC compliant or not. Stopping someone from buying a noise exhaust wont stop there being arse holes on the road causing a nuisance.



It cant be placed in the exhaust, regulations state the measurement should be taken from a certain angle a certain distance away from the exhaust.

Just curious, what regulations exactly?

bijapos

draffodx wrote: »

Total overkill and not required for Ireland.

Why not? Why the hell should some of us suffer people revving the ****e out of 1.6 Hondas with exhausts that are illegal in most other countries.

Many times I've posted on here that a law surrounding anti social behavior in a motor vehicle is what should be brought in that targets the people actually causing a nuisance and doesn't punish someone who wants to modify their car and not drive it like a numpty.
The same already happens here anyway when you buy an exhaust you have the choice of buying an ECC comliant one however you also have the choice to buy non ECC compliant exhausts for track, drag, drift use.

I've no objection to modified exhausts in moderation but whats allowed in this country due to bad regulation has gone beyond a joke. Laws should be introduced and enforced to limit the max sound they can make. They exist in other countries, why not here.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

I presume they measure it at a specific set of revs, which can be done as easily at the roadside as it is when driving.

Lots and lots of potential ambient noise at the roadside so it's not remotely practical to do so, anyone who has ever done any sort of noise monitoring will agree

stephendevlin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

They reduced light transmission, especially at dusk reducing you vision. Also means you cannot see who's in the car and what they have, meaning you can potentially hide weapons or people in the car from Gardai.

Yes boots, doors and wearing jackets while driving shoud also be banned for hiding weapons...

Atomic Pineapple

seaniefr wrote: »

Just curious, what regulations exactly?

EU regulations on the actual use of a decibel meter. Same as followed in the NCT test I believe.

dr.fuzzenstein

draffodx wrote: »

This is a bit of a none story anyway seeing as the Gardai don't require the use of a decibel reader to summon anyone for a loud exhaust, it just has to be loud in their opinion.

I love it. Can you picture the scene in court.
Judge: "Now, Seamus, how loud is an exhaust allowed to be?"
Seamus The Gard: "Should be no louder than VROOOOOM, your honour!"
Judge: "And how loud was the exhaust of the defendant?"
Seamus: "T'was more like VROOOOOOOM, you honour"
Judge: "That's shocking, I impose a €100 fine and two points for excessive VROOOOM on a motorvehicle in accordance to the "no louder than VROOOM act of 2011"

Also, what about completely standard cars that are deemed to be louder?
Some sports cars and motorbikes would surely be in breach if the level is set too low and you could find them rendered illegal and useless by this.

On measuring how loud a car is:
You will need to put it into a soundproofed chamber with echo dampening material on the walls.
Microphones would have to be trained on the exhaust and the noise measure at specific rev points.
Simply pointing a mic at it on the roadside would have wildly varying results and cannot be deemed a reliable test.

stephendevlin

bijapos wrote: »

Why not? Why the hell should some of us suffer people revving the ****e out of 1.6 Hondas with exhausts that are illegal in most other countries.
.

So if I revved the crap out of any other car it wont make a loud noise .....

Atomic Pineapple

bijapos wrote: »

Why not? Why the hell should some of us suffer people revving the ****e out of 1.6 Hondas with exhausts that are illegal in most other countries.

Because its the people revving the **** out the car thats the problem, not the exhaust.

stephendevlin wrote: »

Yes boots, doors and wearing jackets while driving shoud also be banned for hiding weapons...

More for Gardai when they approach a car they know a shotgun isn't being pointed at their head.

Opinicus

RoverJames wrote: »

Lots and lots of potential ambient noise at the roadside so it's not remotely practical to do so, anyone who has ever done any sort of noise monitoring will agree

Is it possible to "zero" a noise monitor like you would a weighing scales or anything?

stephendevlin

draffodx wrote: »

More for Gardai when they approach a car they know a shotgun isn't being pointed at their head.

Boy racers carry shotguns??:D

Atomic Pineapple

stephendevlin wrote: »

Boy racers carry shotguns??:D

Who said it was anything to do with "boy racers"?

Opinicus

Opinicus wrote: »

Is it possible to "zero" a noise monitor like you would a weighing scales or anything?

None that I have used, what folks here are forgetting is that the metre will measure the noise at a point, noise at that point maybe over 99dB, on the roadside no way can you prove that the exhaust is the sole contributor to that 99dB. It's bordering on common sense (which isn't too common :pac: )

bijapos

stephendevlin wrote: »

So if I revved the crap out of any other car it wont make a loud noise .....

Big difference between revving the crap out of a standard exhaust, a modded one which complies with regulations, and a modded one that doesn't comply with amy regulations. Its the third kind that a lot of people want banned.

draffodx wrote: »

Because its the people revving the **** out the car thats the problem, not the exhaust.

Yes, but if you regulate exactly how loud the bloody things can go in the first place then you reduce the problem.

Like I said I've nothing against properly modified exhausts that are within normal limits like other countries, its the unregulated ones here that get me.

stephendevlin

I live on a road where people constantly drive like mental patients.. overtake on corners / white lines.

Im not one bit worried about the loud exhausts Im worried about someone getting killed. And its not just young drivers in modified cars its mostly turbo diesel cars bmws/audis/vw that do the passing out or are flying.

Matt Simis

bijapos wrote: »

Yes, but if you regulate exactly how loud the bloody things can go in the first place then you reduce the problem.

Like I said I've nothing against properly modified exhausts that are within normal limits like other countries, its the unregulated ones here that get me.

I dont like overly loud exhausts either (think most people dont) but your suggestion on regulating aftermarket parts is not a "good thing" at all. The problem in Switzerland and Norway where all parts require the "complies with manufacturer specs" thing is that :

- Costs money to certify every part, passed onto the consumer
- Many parts will not be released in those markets due to the costs and legislation hampering the free market
- Older cars rely on the aftermarket, this would ruin many classic car ownership prospects
- Many performance parts (ie newer technology) will not meet outdated specs meaning cars would have to run with worse parts due to legislation, not technology.


Yes, there should be a control metric on exhaust noise, it should be reasonable and done in a repeatable manner with scientific process, this is done already at the NCT. We do not need or want roadside checks (which cannot measure noise with any accuracy at all) nor heavy handed government intervention on all parts sold for every car. Its anti free-market and should be resisted at all levels.


PS: I have Magnaflow Centre boxes as my backboxes, in your scenario I couldnt buy/fit them as a generic centre box is not sold for any particular vehicle nor "designed" for use as a backbox. So you would completely remove the option for me to fit the quietest exhaust I found.

Atomic Pineapple

bijapos wrote: »

Big difference between revving the crap out of a standard exhaust, a modded one which complies with regulations, and a modded one that doesn't comply with amy regulations. Its the third kind that a lot of people want banned.



Yes, but if you regulate exactly how loud the bloody things can go in the first place then you reduce the problem.

Like I said I've nothing against properly modified exhausts that are within normal limits like other countries, its the unregulated ones here that get me.

The problem will still exist, you will still be able to have an exhaust loud enough to cause a nuisance, if you couldn't then sports cars would be crippled.

Its driver behavior that needs to be targeted.

bijapos

bijapos wrote: »

Big difference between revving the crap out of a standard exhaust, a modded one which complies with regulations, and a modded one that doesn't comply with amy regulations. Its the third kind that a lot of people want banned.

As I said before you would be surprised how loud an exhaust would have to be to go over the regulations.

We tested a friends (very powerful) car which has a straight through custom made exhaust with no silencers, no cat etc. Its seriously loud and it was under 99dB. He doesn't get any hassle though as he doesn't drive like a fool in town etc, this is the key.

stephendevlin

Are there are already noise pollution laws in place? I mean .. I could easily fit my car with a couple of speakers that have over 1000w (which would be a lot louder than any exhaust) and sit outside someones house playing thumping music (louder than any exaust revving up). But on normal days have them down at an acceptable level (much like normal driving with a loud exhause)

My mate had speakers that would set off car alarms they were that powerful.

Target the people abusing the noise pollution laws.

maximoose

Getting rid of the tinting can only be a good thing. When I bought my current car I took it for a test drive at 4pm on a clear day and the front windows were tinted (heavily enough but not as much as others I've seen) and visibility in daylight was piss poor, dont know how people can drive at night with heavily tinted front windows.

Exhausts dont annoy me too much, I find it quite funny seeing banger 206s/Civics and the likes with ridiculous exhausts on them!

Bigcheeze

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, there should be a control metric on exhaust noise, it should be reasonable and done in a repeatable manner with scientific process, this is done already at the NCT. We do not need or want roadside checks (which cannot measure noise with any accuracy at all) nor heavy handed government intervention on all parts sold for every car. Its anti free-market and should be resisted at all levels.

The NCT process doesn't seem to work as there are scum bags everywhere with these exhausts.

The measurement is a scientific process with a margin of error so allow a reasonable margin of error in the test. We're not sending a man to the moon! Close enough is good enough.

The common good is more important than allowing kids to drive around in their skobe mobiles annoying the law abiding majority.

Atomic Pineapple

Bigcheeze wrote: »

The NCT process doesn't seem to work as there are scum bags everywhere with these exhausts.

You dont get it. The exhaust may well have passed the NCT test at 3k rev or whatever it is but its the manner in which it is driven on the public road that is causing the noise.

A car under load at 6/7/8k revs is going to be a lot nosier than under no load at 3k revs.

How many times do I have to say its driver behavior that needs targeting?

stephendevlin

Bigcheeze wrote: »

scum bags

???

stephendevlin

stephendevlin wrote: »

???

Some folks reckon that young lads in Civics etc with loud exhausts are scumbags, many of these folks went to private school and their folks have a few quid, the lads in the Civics would consider these folks to be knobs :pac: