Workers turn down €28k Job - because they get more on the dole

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SOURCE.

Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on dole

A BUSINESSMAN told yesterday how he was "gobsmacked" when he offered a permanent job to two workers who had been unemployed for two years -- but both turned it down because they get more in handouts from the State.

David Lawlor, of Watermark Technology in Citywest, Dublin, and who owns the distribution rights to Gaggia commercial coffee machines in Ireland and the UK, was offering a job in maintenance for an annual wage of €28,000.

A person on the national minimum wage of €7.65 an hour would earn €15,912.

First,the businessman offered the position to a Romanian national who has been living here for a number of years. But he quit after just one day.

"He's married, with kids, and is renting," said Mr Lawlor, adding that the man qualifies for multiple types of social welfare.

"He'd been working for a rival but had been let go two years ago. He started on the Tuesday and on the Wednesday he said he felt he was entitled to more money.

"He said he'd get more money on the dole."

Mr Lawlor had pointed out to the man that he could also earn overtime, at one-and-a-half times the rate, as well as have the use of a company van for incidental personal use.

"A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole."

The following week Mr Lawlor offered the job to a Filipino national, who, he said, had the skills required and had done the "best ever interview". He had been living here for several years, had four children and drove an "06 or 07 car".

During the interview Mr Lawlor -- who employs 10 people -- discovered the man had been involved in an industrial dispute with his previous company and had been unable to find another job.

"He was in a situation where no one would give him a job. But I figured that I would be able to manage the situation because I work very closely with my employees.

"But he went home and the next day he called and told me his wife said they would get more money on the dole."

Mr Lawlor said he was frustrated that, despite receiving almost 300 CVs and offering the job twice, he still could not find someone.

Secure

"It's a good job, it's secure, and it's well over the minimum wage. Yet we can't fill it.

"We've got people here who don't want to work, they don't want to be worse off (than on the dole)."

He said the new Government must tackle the issue for the sake of the economy.

"There are politicians here but they're not living in the real world where there are real problems. And until they fix those problems, we're going to go nowhere.

''If anybody out there is listening, I want them to know this is a real issue."

Figures supplied by the Revenue show that a single person earning €28,000 would net €23,565.36 with basic tax credits. This would rise to €23,924.88 for a medical card holder as they would pay 4pc Universal Social Charge (USC).

A married person on the same salary would have additional credits and would take home €25,215.36, rising to €25,574.88 if they hold a medical card and pay the reduced USC of 4pc.

The USC for non-medical card holders is 7pc for all earnings over €16,016.

Jesus, I've never allowed myself be idle for a day in my life - 'nor have I sponged off the state/tax payer.

Anyone

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/workers-turn-down-euro28000-job-because-they-get-more-on-dole-2573644.html

Seriously....this annoys the hell out of me. Surely the Dept of Social Welfare should get the names of those people and cut their allowances. If people are refusing work, because they get more on the dole, they shouldn't get the dole...simple as.

poodles

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/workers-turn-down-euro28000-job-because-they-get-more-on-dole-2573644.html



A BUSINESSMAN told yesterday how he was "gobsmacked" when he offered a permanent job to two workers who had been unemployed for two years -- but both turned it down because they get more in handouts from the State.

David Lawlor, of Watermark Technology in Citywest, Dublin, and who owns the distribution rights to Gaggia commercial coffee machines in Ireland and the UK, was offering a job in maintenance for an annual wage of €28,000.

A person on the national minimum wage of €7.65 an hour would earn €15,912.

First,the businessman offered the position to a Romanian national who has been living here for a number of years. But he quit after just one day.

"He's married, with kids, and is renting," said Mr Lawlor, adding that the man qualifies for multiple types of social welfare.

"He'd been working for a rival but had been let go two years ago. He started on the Tuesday and on the Wednesday he said he felt he was entitled to more money.

"He said he'd get more money on the dole."

Mr Lawlor had pointed out to the man that he could also earn overtime, at one-and-a-half times the rate, as well as have the use of a company van for incidental personal use.

"A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole."

The following week Mr Lawlor offered the job to a Filipino national, who, he said, had the skills required and had done the "best ever interview". He had been living here for several years, had four children and drove an "06 or 07 car".

During the interview Mr Lawlor -- who employs 10 people -- discovered the man had been involved in an industrial dispute with his previous company and had been unable to find another job.

"He was in a situation where no one would give him a job. But I figured that I would be able to manage the situation because I work very closely with my employees.

"But he went home and the next day he called and told me his wife said they would get more money on the dole."

Mr Lawlor said he was frustrated that, despite receiving almost 300 CVs and offering the job twice, he still could not find someone.

Secure

"It's a good job, it's secure, and it's well over the minimum wage. Yet we can't fill it.

"We've got people here who don't want to work, they don't want to be worse off (than on the dole)."

He said the new Government must tackle the issue for the sake of the economy.

"There are politicians here but they're not living in the real world where there are real problems. And until they fix those problems, we're going to go nowhere.

''If anybody out there is listening, I want them to know this is a real issue."

Figures supplied by the Revenue show that a single person earning €28,000 would net €23,565.36 with basic tax credits. This would rise to €23,924.88 for a medical card holder as they would pay 4pc Universal Social Charge (USC).

A married person on the same salary would have additional credits and would take home €25,215.36, rising to €25,574.88 if they hold a medical card and pay the reduced USC of 4pc.

The USC for non-medical card holders is 7pc for all earnings over €16,016.

Dermighty

Firstly, I doubt he was giving the job to people without experience...because if he did I'd do the job, 28k is a lot of money.

Secondly, he didn't seem to have offered to to any Irish people, which may be because they weren't the best candidates but it seems like he may be attracting a certain type of employee/person rather than it being a coincidence.

jaykay74

Obviously Anyone can't get the dole.

Redlion

I'll take that job if there's no one else interested!

Hande hoche!

Makikomi beat you by two minutes. Unlucky.

stupidusername

I don't know how it ever amounts to that much. but yeah if you turn down a job of course you should be cut off.

i'm on 186 a week, and getting 50 a week from my boss, but as it is i'm barely scraping by. I mean I've to keep an eye on things cause I may not be able to afford to continue working (WPP) and if that's the case I'll have to leave. sad but true.stupid country.

strobe

...and incidentally and on a completely unrelated note he now got a free full page advertisement for his business on the website of one the countries most widely read newspapers. I like him, he's clever.

Daegerty

any experience needed? if not where do I apply?

mikemac

Businessman writes to newspaper and raises the profile of his business and that it's doing well and expanding

Mentions their rival has industrial relation disputes and they are losing staff

This businessman comes from the Michael O'Leary school, free publicity in the paper and run down your rivals

Jarren

i already did

Messi2

Why does other peoples situation annoy you? It does not change your life. It is none of your business. Youre going out of your way to be offended.

Misty Chaos

If that was me, I wouldn't care so much about the benefits because I'd be going mad fromt the boredom assoicated with not having a job for that long!

Kind of retarded that the benefits system is like this, though.

flyton5

Daegerty wrote: »

any experience needed? if not where do I apply?

+1

jackal

Flucking ridiculous. I have a friend (with kids) who left a job because he worked out that just like this guy, unless he is on 50k+ (gross) he is better off (net) on the dole.

DoesNotCompute

Amazing, it just goes to show how generous our SW system is. Unemployment is not going away until the dole is made the least unnatractive option (financially speaking).

seamus

I love how they show that these guys would take home €26k from the job, but fail to illustrate how it's possible to claim more than €26k on the dole.

Simple solution: stick a cap on how much social welfare a family can claim, unless they're on disability benefit. €15k + €2k per child. That means you don't have to worry about who can and can't claim what benefits, you just cut them off when they hit the maximum.

Lawrence1895

Just some brainstorming:

I know people, who turned down a job, because they had to work weekend hours, evening hours and on bank holidays. This doesn't seem to be the case here though.

And if Enda Kenny likes Mrs Merkel so much, why not copying this drastic measure: Anyone on the dole who refuses a job offer, gets his dole cut down to 60%. 'Lack or refusal of co operation' as it is called in official terms in Germany.

You can refuse, if you are looking after a sick family member or your child. And you are never offered a job which has nothing to do with your previous job or skills though.

Monty Burnz

Messi2 wrote: »

Why does other peoples situation annoy you? It does not change your life. It is none of your business. Youre going out of your way to be offended.

Someone get this guy a Nobel prize for economics...:rolleyes:

Where the hell do you think dole money comes from, Messi??

stupidusername

Lars1916 wrote: »

Just some brainstorming:

I know people, who turned down a job, because they had to work weekend hours, evening hours and on bank holidays. This doesn't seem to be the case here though.

And if Enda Kenny likes Mrs Merkel so much, why not copying this drastic measure: Anyone on the dole who refuses a job offer, gets his dole cut down to 60%. 'Lack or refusal of co operation' as it is called in official terms in Germany.

You can refuse, if you are looking after a sick family member or your child. And you are never offered a job which has nothing to do with your previous job or skills though.

but why would you apply in the first place if you cant take on the job? and one of the terms of JSB/JSA is that you be available for work, which clearly you wouldn't be if you were looking after someone.

and they have the cut in dole here for people who refuse it btw.

dave1982

I'm on welfare and rent allowance and getting nowhere near 28k.Lucky if i'm getting 13/14K a year all included.

See this is a balls for people genuinely seeking work.That annoys the **** outta me tbh

stupidusername

dave1982 wrote: »

I'm on welfare and rent allowance and getting nowhere near 28k.Lucky if i'm getting 13/14K a year all included.

oh sweet jebus you've started it now...

:eek:

Dravokivich

ah man, that's absolutely nuts.

Wouldn't they have had to tell Social Welfare they were about to start a job anyway?

how can they just get back into it?

Funkfield

I wonder could it be introduced that an employer is obliged to notify his local office with details of people who refuse a job.
Persons details could be checked to see if they are receiving jobseeker's.
Payment cut, or at least claimant called in for interview to explain themselves.

Just thinking out loud here.

galah

Figures supplied by the Revenue show that a single person earning €28,000 would net €23,565.36 with basic tax credits. This would rise to €23,924.88 for a medical card holder as they would pay 4pc Universal Social Charge (USC).

This does not make sense. Medical cards are means-tested, so if you're on 28 k, you should not be entitled to one.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/medical_card.html

Funkfield

double post, sorry.

Dravokivich

Funkfield wrote: »

I wonder could it be introduced that an employer is obliged to notify his local office with details of people who refuse a job.
Persons details could be checked to see if they are receiving jobseeker's.
Payment cut, or at least claimant called in for interview to explain themselves.

Just thinking out loud here.

not everyone would work or look for work in the same area they live. So that'd be hard for social welfare to keep a track of if it's being reported locally.

also, as said in this report, he had offered the job to 2 out of 300.

Would he be obliged to declare the people he refused as well?

Cookie_Monster

Was listening to this story on Newstalk, several texts in afterwards stating 28k was a disgracefully low wage and people should not be expected to support a family on it.

WTF? I'd love to know what planet they are living on.

Mr. Loverman

What a stupid article.

It's purpose is so obviously to make people angry at immigrants who are getting a lot of social welfare.

We did not need to know they were Romanian/Filipino, or what car they drove.

Lawrence1895

stupidusername wrote: »

but why would you apply in the first place if you cant take on the job? and one of the terms of JSB/JSA is that you be available for work, which clearly you wouldn't be if you were looking after someone.

and they have the cut in dole here for people who refuse it btw.

Just to explain, in Germany, the state's employment agency looks after dole payments as well, meaning it's much easier to check if somebody is honestly looking for a job, rather than just walking into the office and grabbing some money.

You get some kind of job advisor, who looks up the market for a suitable job (i.e. according to your skills, previous experience, family situation, etc), and in turns this means it is not that easy to turn down a job offer.

Messi2

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Someone get this guy a Nobel prize for economics...:rolleyes:

Where the hell do you think dole money comes from, Messi??

But, it is something which you cannot control. Youre being outraged and cannot do a thing. Just my opinion but I let things I cannot control go.

There is an option of leaving the country/not paying tax if it bothers you that much. You can control that. Unfortunately you cannot control the dole, just complain about it on boards, save your time in my opinion.

Rabidlamb

There's also the real reason these maintenance technicians turned the job down.
They are doing nixers on the side to supplement their dole.
They'd loose these if they went full-time.
The problem is the black economy & not social welfare.

Funkfield

Dravokivich wrote: »

not everyone would work or look for work in the same area they live. So that'd be hard for social welfare to keep a track of if it's being reported locally.

Not at all. If the person showed up as claiming. Send a message to that office. 2 mins work.
If they don't show up as claiming then end of story.

Dravokivich wrote: »

also, as said in this report, he had offered the job to 2 out of 300.

Would he be obliged to declare the people he refused as well?

Why would he report the people he refused?

Hannibal Smith

stupidusername wrote: »

I don't know how it ever amounts to that much. but yeah if you turn down a job of course you should be cut off.

i'm on 186 a week, and getting 50 a week from my boss, but as it is i'm barely scraping by. I mean I've to keep an eye on things cause I may not be able to afford to continue working (WPP) and if that's the case I'll have to leave. sad but true.stupid country.

I kind of know what you mean. I'm already on a three day week, have a boy in creche and if/when we have another kid I'll have to give up work because we can't afford two creche fees. it's a bummer.

stupidusername

Lars1916 wrote: »

You get some kind of job advisor, who looks up the market for a suitable job (i.e. according to your skills, previous experience, family situation, etc), and in turns this means it is not that easy to turn down a job offer.

Known here as FÁS :pac:

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The problem is the black economy & not social welfare.

not wanting to be all prim and proper here but do you know of any figures that actually back that up? i mean in terms of interest, and actually knowing what you're talking about.

Cookie_Monster

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I kind of know what you mean. I'm already on a three day week, have a boy in creche and if/when we have another kid I'll have to give up work because we can't afford two creche fees. it's a bummer.

well then don't have one...

Idbatterim

you have to blame the system and not the spongers! once kids are in the equation is when welfare becomes very attractive... what do people on here think of people living in social housing, next door to some idiot who went out and worked, may have paid E300k for the same house, didnt have anywhere near the same benefits of the single mother etc next door, yet contributed hugely?! the piss taking here goes on as much at the bottom, as at the top of society. The only ones I feel sorry for are private sector or recently unemployed!

anndub

Rabble rabble rabble

Spunge

They didn't took err jerrbs

Knasher

Just wondering, if a person is found to be claiming benefits while working for cash in hand. Exactly what repercussions would they face? I've never heard of a person going to prison or having to repay the government and if the very worst that can happen is they lose their benefits going forward, well it hardly seems like much of a deterrent.

Hannibal Smith

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

well then don't have one...

*sigh*:rolleyes:

Lawrence1895

Funkfield wrote: »

I wonder could it be introduced that an employer is obliged to notify his local office with details of people who refuse a job.
Persons details could be checked to see if they are receiving jobseeker's.
Payment cut, or at least claimant called in for interview to explain themselves.

Just thinking out loud here.

That's exactly how it works in Germany

The job seeker gets a letter with details of a possible employer, in most cases, it is the invite for an interview already.
The employer gets a copy of the letter, and if the job seeker doesn't turn up, he is obliged to inform the employment agency, who then cuts the job seeker's dole.
That's just a matter of days.

But I'm also aware, jobs have to be created first.

Phill Ewinn

Literally don't believe this story. There's a shed load of people qualified enough and experienced in that kind of work. Urban myth me thinks, or a chancer trying to get some free advertising.

listermint

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

*sigh*:rolleyes:

"Sigh" ?? dont have kids if you can afford them, this is more apparent on the continent than Ireland and the UK. Must have more common sense.

Kids are a precious Luxury and you wouldnt go out and have 3-5 if you couldnt afford to feed them, Or would you ? one wonders sometimes...

strobe

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

*sigh*:rolleyes:

Why the rolly sigh? If you can't afford to have another child then simply don't have one. I can't see anything wrong with that suggestion.

cursai

I don't believe what i just read!!!

krudler

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

*sigh*:rolleyes:

sigh what? If you cant afford another kid then dont have one, and dont expect the taxpayers to pay for it.

Hannibal Smith

listermint wrote: »

"Sigh" ?? dont have kids if you can afford them, this is more apparent on the continent than Ireland and the UK. Must have more common sense.

Kids are a precious Luxury and you wouldnt go out and have 3-5 if you couldnt afford to feed them, Or would you ? one wonders sometimes...

who said I couldn't afford to feed them? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Maybe you might try reading a post before passing naiive judgements

stupidusername

Knasher wrote: »

Just wondering, if a person is found to be claiming benefits while working for cash in hand. Exactly what repercussions would they face? I've never heard of a person going to prison or having to repay the government and if the very worst that can happen is they lose their benefits going forward, well it hardly seems like much of a deterrent.

I saw some program done by RTÉ a while back where they investigated people that were scamming in one way or another, all that ever happened was they had to re-pay it in payments over a number of years.

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

*sigh*:rolleyes:

what's the problem? It's hardly fair to keep popping out children and expecting the state to pay for it is it? it's simple really, if you can't afford to have children, don't.

Hannibal Smith

krudler wrote: »

sigh what? If you cant afford another kid then dont have one, and dont expect the taxpayers to pay for it.

Where did I say the taxpayer would pay for it?