Leitrim Fire Dispute

mack_

Hey lads anybody know what the dispute in leitrim over the ba refresher is all about. siptu is balloting for ind action???

flyingsnail

I don't know, this is all I could find. RTE Link

In my opinion

mack_ wrote: »

Hey lads anybody know what the dispute in leitrim over the ba refresher is all about. siptu is balloting for ind action???

Unqualified persons trying to assess lads on a refresher BA course making it a pass or fail without the competence to examine or agreement to make that rule I believe. Chance Mayo, Sligo, Longford, Roscommon, and other counties will also be out according to lads I spoke to today.

karbonkoncepts

once again the issue of compenency is raised, there is no way we should be accepting non-operational officers as instructors if you havent walked the walk then dont talk the talk...people who have never sat in the back of a fire engine instructing those who have been doing the job for years is an absolute disgrace..

mack_

Totally agree with that. Same crap down here in the south. All the acfos looking after each other. bringing each other in on courses, getting travelling, and telling the lads that have to go into real fires what to do in a controlled environment wit a bit of smoke.. TOTAL DISGRACE.:mad::mad::mad:

Smokey Bear

Just received an update from IFESA in regards to this seems to have escalated seemingly all the Fire Fighters in Leitrim are handing back their pagers this evening.

Extract from press release,

"All of Leitrim Fire Fighters to Stand down from Duty today over
Health and Safety Concerns
“Time. It’s a precious commodity, and it waits for no-one. When lives are on the line, seconds count. Fractions of seconds count.
Few individuals in our lives better understand the importance of time than the men and women of the Irish Fire Service . Highly qualified public servants, trained to handle crises affecting both people and property – often simultaneously.
But the lives of the community in Leitrim and the Fire Fighters who serve them are being put at risk by the action of the County Manager and the Chief Fire Officer of Leitrim.”Says John Kidd of the Irish Fire & Emergency Services Association.
The Irish Fire & Emergency Service Association can reveal that vital equipment required for responding to incidents has been removed from all Fire engines in Co Leitrim. The Chief Fire Officer has given an order to reduce the number of Breathing Apparatus sets from 6 down to 4 on all Fire appliances in Leitrim. The number of cylinders has also been reduced to only two spare cylinders for each fire engine. Also thermal imaging cameras that help fire fighter locate victims in fires quickly have been removed as well.
### more ###
The equipment has been removed in order for a controversial training course to take place in a training centre in Tullamore. Leitrim Chief Fire officer has stood down 12 FireFighters today over their refusal to attend a Breathing Apparatus course when they sought clarification on how it was being run. IFESA have questioned aspects of this training and the major Health and Safety implications in the running of these courses.IFESA is calling for an immediate investigation into the action of the Chief Fire Officer.
“His action has diminished the capability of Fire Fighters to save lives,the potential is there that lives could be lost.The Chief Fire Officer has reduced by 50% the time that fire fighters will be able to spend in a fire trying to save lives by removal of spare cylinders and also a 33% reduction in the number of Fire Fighters who will be able to enter a fire due to the removal of breathing apparatus sets.This directly affects the resources that the Officer in Charge at a scene can deploy in order to effect a rescue attempt.”Says John Kidd of the Irish Fire & Emergency Service Association
“All Fire Fighters in Leitrim are threatening to stand down from duty on Health & Safety grounds today unless this vital equipment is put back on the Fire Engines.There is no longer a safe system of work in place and no risk assessment is in place to cover the removal of equipment.This will leave no fire cover in place for the whole County unless the County Manager and Chief Fire Officer reverse their order to remove the equipment.The equipment has been missing for a number of days now and nothing has been done.It was an extremely hard decision to come to , in the removal of our service to the public but some thing has to be done to safe guard our lives and the lives of the people we serve.”Says a Leitrim Fire Fighter.
If a life is lost IFESA will hold the Chief Fire Officer and County Manager personally responsible due to their actions.
IFESA will be seeking an immediate meeting with Minister Phil Hogan to address this serious issue and will continue to call for the establishment of a National Fire & Rescue service for Ireland.
### END ###"

dfbemt

Since when did the IFESA represent FF's in Leitrim ?

Dispute is all about pass / fail or pass / have to redo, whatever way you want to say it.

Hanging H&S onto the dispute will help nobody and the IFESA getting involved will stir the whole thing.

Both sides (SIPTU and Leitrim CC) are in the LRC on Monday to try and sort it out. I wonder where the IFESA will be?

supermedic

Agree, IFESA and NASRA are releasing press statements at the drop of a hat, even if they are not involved in the dispute. If the dispute is already going to the LRC or Labour court, it is being dealt with. Poor show from the management again for initiating the whole thing.

Smokey Bear

So as not to repeat myself posted this here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056205419

LRC hearing is not dealing with the public safety concern.

Smokey Bear

mack_

Smokey Bear wrote: »

So as not to repeat myself posted this here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056205419

LRC hearing is not dealing with the public safety concern.

Smokey Bear

Good to hear the lads were reinstated today?

dfbemt

Smokey Bear wrote: »

So as not to repeat myself posted this here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056205419

LRC hearing is not dealing with the public safety concern.

Smokey Bear

I don't understand the H&S implications that the IFESA are trying to make. So 2 sets have been removed temporarily for a training course, possibly because Leitrim do not have the resources to buy sets for training. Is this reasonable and practicable?

IFESA getting involved with an IR issue dressed up as a H&S issue seems to be par for the course. I do not see this winning any new members for the IFESA and stinks to me of 'ambulance chasing', my opinion.

Glad to hear the ff's were reinstated which was always going to happen. What else happened? Are the courses going ahead now? Is there a pass / fail element still?

SerialComplaint

dfbemt wrote: »

stinks to me of 'ambulance chasing'

Pun intended?

ivabiggon

dfbemt wrote: »

I don't understand the H&S implications that the IFESA are trying to make. So 2 sets have been removed temporarily for a training course, possibly because Leitrim do not have the resources to buy sets for training. Is this reasonable and practicable?

IFESA getting involved with an IR issue dressed up as a H&S issue seems to be par for the course. I do not see this winning any new members for the IFESA and stinks to me of 'ambulance chasing', my opinion.

Glad to hear the ff's were reinstated which was always going to happen. What else happened? Are the courses going ahead now? Is there a pass / fail element still?

that's a bit irrepressible don't you think. what if the appliance was at a domestic and we all know that country brigades only send the one truck to anything as a cost saving, and one crew were in searching and got into trouble who would be able to rescue them if there is no sets.
it took a review of the fire service after the stardust to make it compulsory to have a BA set on the truck for everyone. taking sets of a frontline appliance is wrong and definitely a H&S issue for all.
not to mention if compartment training is part module of the BA coarse the set get damaged and filthy and contaminated with glue etc form the continuous use in and out of a containers and needs to have a major service afterwards, hence the reason there should be dedicated sets and helmets, as your equipment and PPE gets wrecked.
any fire service who puts them selves forward to train or refresh firefighters in BA should have the proper facilities and equipment, otherwise farm it out to someone who does.

dfbemt

ivabiggon wrote: »

that's a bit irrepressible don't you think. what if the appliance was at a domestic and we all know that country brigades only send the one truck to anything as a cost saving

When have you last been in the control room? Most counties, and practically all at that, send 2 pumps to a domestic.

and one crew were in searching and got into trouble who would be able to rescue them if there is no sets

the other crew members would. 1x driver/ECO, 1x officer and 4 BA wearers so if 2 seraching and in trouble, there are still 2 available and another pump on the way

it took a review of the fire service after the stardust to make it compulsory to have a BA set on the truck for everyone.

Source please to include name of document and page number otherwise this comment cannot be backed up. I am not aware of any review that said this.

not to mention if compartment training is part module of the BA coarse the set get damaged and filthy and contaminated with glue etc form the continuous use in and out of a containers and needs to have a major service afterwards, hence the reason there should be dedicated sets

a) was CFBT part of the Leitrim BA refreshers?
b) what is the syllabus for CFBT refreshers, or BA refreshers for that matter? There is none so each fire service can set their own content and practical elements
c) not all materials used for CFBT are contaminated with glue, etc. There are different materials available and they are used from time to time. Are you a CFBT instructor or have you just undergone a course?

and helmets, as your equipment and PPE gets wrecked.

But if helmets are Personal Protective Equipment how can a set of helmets be ciculated around different students? It is the norm for helmet covers to be used which protects the PPE

any fire service who puts them selves forward to train or refresh firefighters in BA should have the proper facilities and equipment, otherwise farm it out to someone who does.

Not all authorities have the facilities and thats why the students are sent elsewhere. This is the norm around the country and I find your stated requirement a bit beyond reasonable and practicable. Leitrim is a small fire authority. Is it reasonable for them to hold 17 sets (4 instructor, 13 student) at €2,500 per set (set plus 2 cylinders) for training that takes place every 2 years when they can remove some operational sets for that purpose for a brief period of time?

The IFESA statement did nothing for the dispute (which has now been resolved after LRC intervention) and was nothing but a clear attempt to gain some influence. Here and in other posts the IFESA position was rejected by others and did not even figure at the LRC. Reasonable and practicable my ar*e :rolleyes: