The Great Saddle Debate

chakattack

I know most people will go "everyone is different....my arse is nicer than yours....you just have to get used to it" but let's actually talk saddles.

What works for you and why?
What doesn't work for you and why?
How do you set yours up?

After much research I've drawn the following conclusions (for me):

Saddle shaped saddles (higher at the back - like bucket seats) such as the prologo scratch and fizik aliante are amazingly comfortable to sit on, don't rub my inner thighs or bruise my sit bones, and feel great when pushing hard in the saddle BUT after 2 hours I get numbness. I set it slightly tilted up to stop sliding forward and closer to the handlebars than a flat saddle (to get the same reach).

Flat cutout saddles give zero numbness and are fine most of the time but sometimes rub me up the wrong way at the crease between leg and pelvis or bruise my sit bones on long bumpy spins and don't have that armchair, I could sit here all day feeling. I set it up perfectly level.

Anyone have a suggestion for a compromise?

Anyone used one of these - Aliante with shallow pressure relief channel?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=58079

Dubba

I bought this Charge Spoon recently from Evans Cycles:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/charge/spoon-saddle-ec025891?query=charge%20spoon

Evans - "Its comfort comes from the combination of its supportive shape with pressure relief channel"

I haven't done any long spins with it yet because of a separate overuse injury, but from the short couple of 30min. spins I've done it feels better suited to me than my last saddle - the Planet X one:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/SAPXSL/planet-x-superlight-team-saddle

Lumen

chakattack wrote: »

I set it slightly tilted up to stop sliding forward and closer to the handlebars than a flat saddle (to get the same reach).

With saddles that have a rear uppy bit you're supposed to set the front-centre section up level, not tilted up. It's not surprising you're getting numbness.

I don't know why you're sliding forwards. Pedal harder? :pac:

Zorba

I used to have a Fizik Arione which i thought was pretty comfortable but again i used to get the numbness after 2+ hr rides.

Then i decided to try a Specialized Romin SL and have to say it's the closest thing i've come to what feels like sitting on an armchair while your on the bike. No numbness what so ever really can't believe how comfortable it is. Only downside is the nose is a bit wide but the more i ride on it the less notice it.

Really can't praise this saddle enough

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=59715&gold_ses=

CramCycle

Brooks B17 Imperial or regular (both have been good to me), no numbness after a day in the saddle.

Charge Spoon and a Selle Italia of unknown type are my others and also very comfy.

I had a Fizik sumatorother with cut out in the centre and that just put me in agony after only 20 minutes.

Dubba

[QUOTE=
I don't know why you're sliding forwards. Pedal harder? :pac:[/QUOTE]

Or maybe the saddle is set too far back?

I also tend to slide forward, especially when pushing it on.

Dubba

I've a Selle SMP TRK also with a cut out in the center, which was a total pain in the hole after anything over an hour.

kumate_champ07

I use a Brooks B18 which is kind of rare, made out of plastic instead of leather! Its more comfortable than it looks. Ive 4 other unpadded plastic saddles Ive yet to try out. one is an extremely narrow Fujita Seamless.

I change my position on the saddle a good bit so never really get any pains

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

With saddles that have a rear uppy bit you're supposed to set the front-centre section up level, not tilted up. It's not surprising you're getting numbness.

I don't know why you're sliding forwards. Pedal harder? :pac:

I tried the front centre section level and tilted up both caused numbness.

I've read in more than a few places about tilting this style of saddle up a little. Sean Kelly's bike that was for sale at worldwidecycles was setup that way.

LCRC_BAX

Fizik Arione Kium is a great perch imo. Enough flex from the sides not to rub and really comfortable for a long day on the bike. It's quite long too so great for getting forward on the saddle when you're TT'ing into the wind!

I also use Selle Italia Flite saddles (original with no cut-out), they take a long time to break in and are quite hard - not best suited for soemone new to cycling - but are very good after 6 months of pain

paddymacsporran

A decent saddle is all about the width to suit your pelvis/sit bones.

Once you know that, most brands the correct width are pretty comfy in my experience.

drogdub

The saddle on a Trek 2.1 sucks

SurferDude41

I tried all of the fizik saddles, Aliante: nice saddle and very comfortable, I just found the padding too soft...also found it too short...

Antares: Very firm saddle, I found this too flat and my inner thighs used to catch the sides while getting in and out of the saddle...

The Arione: this was just too narrow for me, would suit skinny narrow hipped riders...

I have ridden a san-marco rolls since 1986, I find it the most comfortable saddle I have ever ridden...

Also tried the classic Regal, good saddle but not as comfortable as the rolls..SD...

FergusF

CramCycle wrote: »

Brooks B17 Imperial or regular (both have been good to me), no numbness after a day in the saddle.

+1 on Brooks! I haven't tried the Imperial but have B17s on two of my bikes (one with the big copper rivets, the other the sprung variant, Champion flyer I think it's called). Very comfy even without padded shorts for spins of up to 3-4 hours. Also have done some touring riding a B67, comfy all day combined with padded shorts.

I haven't used a plastic saddle in years, last time was a Specialized with a cutout, 'body gel' or similar name - it was comfortable for short spins but eventually caused numbness / pain.

Advantages of leather saddles over vinyl / plastic are: firm support of your sit bones; breathable so sweat is not so annoying; they conform to your shape after a while; slightly slippy surface allows you to move around a bit to vary your position.

Cons: expensive; 'retro' looks don't suit all bikes; heavier; need to protect them in the rain.

They work well for me and I wouldn't go back to plastic/vinyl saddles now.

doozerie

I used SanMarco Rolls saddles for years and found them great. I then changed to a Flite and really liked that. In recent years I moved to a Fizik Arione and again that worked well for me too. The Selle Italia SLR that came on my Canyon, however, sometimes got very uncomfortable after 2 to 3 hours of sitting on it, so I replaced that with a Fizik Aliante.

However, once I started back into energetic training spins, rather than casual solo rides, where I was pushing higher gears and working hard the Arione became very uncomfortable after a couple of hours. The Fizik Aliante is less problematic but when I first raced on it recently it became just as uncomfortable after a little over 1 hour of all-out effort.

If it wasn't for the fact that the same discomfort arose on the SLR, I'd be inclined to think that Fizik saddles just don't suit me for any strenuous cycling. As it affects three saddles from two different manufacturers though, I'm left thinking that the issue is either my bike fit or my shorts (Assos, two different chamoises) or both. Pain in the arse, in every sense, whatever the root cause(s) and might suggest generally that the saddle itself isn't always the real cause of discomfort.

Undercover Elephant

paddymacsporran wrote: »

A decent saddle is all about the width to suit your pelvis/sit bones.

Once you know that, most brands the correct width are pretty comfy in my experience.

Obvious question: if so (and that makes perfect sense), does anyone do professional saddle fittings? And if not, why not?

Lumen

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

Obvious question: if so (and that makes perfect sense), does anyone do professional saddle fittings? And if not, why not?

Specialized dealers will use the BG Fit system.

I documented some of it here.

Quigs Snr

Selle Italia SLR on the race bike for me and SLR XP on the training bike. Cheaper than contraception in the long run and twice as effective.

templer27

I tried all the fizik saddles aliante short wide soft not for me.Arione was alright the other one can't remember the name is the best fit for me.I was going to buy it,until I took a chance without even trying it and got the prologo scratch pro.

Very lucky it felt great and I have not looked back since.Prologo's quality is superior to fizik or selle italia,thats what I have found.After nearly two years the saddle looks like new,and I am heavy!

horizon26

templer27 wrote: »

I tried all the fizik saddles aliante short wide soft not for me.Arione was alright the other one can't remember the name is the best fit for me.I was going to buy it,until I took a chance without even trying it and got the prologo scratch pro.

Very lucky it felt great and I have not looked back since.Prologo's quality is superior to fizik or selle italia,thats what I have found.After nearly two years the saddle looks like new,and I am heavy!

+1 on prologo saddles,brilliant quaility and comfortable.They are however expensive however a comfortable saddle is a must.

pprendeville

Dubba wrote: »

I bought this Charge Spoon recently from Evans Cycles:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/charge/spoon-saddle-ec025891?query=charge%20spoon

Evans - "Its comfort comes from the combination of its supportive shape with pressure relief channel"

I haven't done any long spins with it yet because of a separate overuse injury, but from the short couple of 30min. spins I've done it feels better suited to me than my last saddle - the Planet X one:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/SAPXSL/planet-x-superlight-team-saddle

That price for the spoon looks too good to be true. What weight is the saddle? I'm using a Selle Italia C2 at present. I've nothing else to compare it to as it's my first proper road bike. Anyone else using one and have you switched to anything more comfy?

I find after about 1-1.5 hours on the bike I start going a bit numb and have to stand up off it for a break.

Are the Prologos available on a try before you buy basis? I know CSS have some but I think they're all Fizik. Correct me if I'm wrong.

horizon26

pprendeville wrote: »

That price for the spoon looks too good to be true. What weight is the saddle? I'm using a Selle Italia C2 at present. I've nothing else to compare it to as it's my first proper road bike. Anyone else using one and have you switched to anything more comfy?

I find after about 1-1.5 hours on the bike I start going a bit numb and have to stand up off it for a break.

Used a C2 and had the same problems as yourself,1 to 2 hours on the saddle and I went a bit numb.

Bought the scratch pro prologo from wiggle its not such a bad price in the grand scheme of things.I have not had any numbness since.Where do you live some shops have test saddles might be worth a try.Its also the most used saddle in the pro peloton

redmaxi

I've also got a C2 and feel discomfort on the sit bones after 2 hrs. I've tried all the fizik's to no avail. A slr kit carbonio flow came very close. I became convinced then that an SLR XP 180 would be the answer and purchased one which turned out to be a right ass hatchet for me.
Delighted to be back on the C2 today after 500 increasingly more uncomfortable miles on the SLR, which funny enough started out great but went downhill rapid with too much pressure on the perinium.

P.S. If anyone wants to swap a saddle for the Slr xp, trial or permanent, giz a shout.

pprendeville

redmaxi wrote: »

I've also got a C2 and feel discomfort on the sit bones after 2 hrs. I've tried all the fizik's to no avail. A slr kit carbonio flow came very close. I became convinced then that an SLR XP 180 would be the answer and purchased one which turned out to be a right ass hatchet for me.
Delighted to be back on the C2 today after 500 increasingly more uncomfortable miles on the SLR, which funny enough started out great but went downhill rapid with too much pressure on the perinium.

ass hatchet - that's a good one.

Dubba

pprendeville wrote: »

That price for the spoon looks too good to be true. What weight is the saddle? I'm using a Selle Italia C2 at present. I've nothing else to compare it to as it's my first proper road bike. Anyone else using one and have you switched to anything more comfy?

I find after about 1-1.5 hours on the bike I start going a bit numb and have to stand up off it for a break.

Are the Prologos available on a try before you buy basis? I know CSS have some but I think they're all Fizik. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yea the Spoon is very good value & I've seen it recommended a lot around the place. It's quite light too - claimed 285g which is only 20g heavier than the Planet X saddle.

Also I read somewhere awhile back that getting up out of the saddle periodically (every10mins or so) is a good idea as it relieves pressure on that area.

LastGasp

I tried about 5 different supposedly comfortable saddles (Specialized Toupe Gel etc) over a couple of years - all gave aches after a couple of hours. Got a Brooks B17 a year ago but after 3000kms it still hadn't really broken in to be really comfortable. Saw a recommendation recently on YACF forum for these http://www.selleanatomica.com/euro%20buyer.htm
Got one a few weeks ago and haven't looked back since. Spent 12 hours on the bike 2 weeks ago - everything else was fecked, but my arse was fine !

SurferDude41

Did you all know, the Prologo Scratch comes in two widths?.134 and 143
I am planning to try the Scratch 143 very soon, although I guess I probaly have to buy one. Can't find a test scratch 143 anywhere...

Kilgrews Cycles in Cork, have some green test prologo saddles. However they insist you leave your own saddle as a deposit.

FergusF

LastGasp wrote: »

I tried about 5 different supposedly comfortable saddles (Specialized Toupe Gel etc) over a couple of years - all gave aches after a couple of hours. Got a Brooks B17 a year ago but after 3000kms it still hadn't really broken in to be really comfortable. Saw a recommendation recently on YACF forum for these http://www.selleanatomica.com/euro%20buyer.htm
Got one a few weeks ago and haven't looked back since. Spent 12 hours on the bike 2 weeks ago - everything else was fecked, but my arse was fine !

These look good LastGasp, much better range of colours than Brooks too. I doubt I'll ever wear out any of my current ones, but these are really tempting!

Just a few qs - How does the quality compare to Brooks? Were you caught for VAT? -- and what colour did you go for?

Lumen

LastGasp wrote: »

Saw a recommendation recently on YACF forum for these http://www.selleanatomica.com/euro%20buyer.htm
Got one a few weeks ago and haven't looked back since.

I really want a white ostrich hide saddle now.

horizon26

SurferDude41 wrote: »

Did you all know, the Prologo Scratch comes in two widths?.134 and 143
I am planning to try the Scratch 143 very soon, although I guess I probaly have to buy one. Can't find a test scratch 143 anywhere...

Kilgrews Cycles in Cork, have some green test prologo saddles. However they insist you leave your own saddle as a deposit.

You must be a big big man surferdude,if you need a 143mm saddle.Tom Boonen uses a 143mm scratch pro,but he is 6ft 4".Its always a risk when you buy a saddle especially if you can't try before you buy.

Lumen

horizon26 wrote: »

You must be a big big man surferdude,if you need a 143mm saddle.Tom Boonen uses a 143mm scratch pro,but he is 6ft 4".Its always a risk when you buy a saddle especially if you can't try before you buy.

Most of the Toupe's that Specialized sells are 143mm. It's a fairly normal size for someone in a non-racing position, as the sit bones are wider if you're more upright.

I have 130mm and 143mm Toupes. The 130 is just a bit less stable, but possibly nicer to race on.

horizon26

Lumen wrote: »

Most of the Toupe's that Specialized sells are 143mm. It's a fairly normal size for someone in a non-racing position, as the sit bones are wider if you're more upright.

I have 130mm and 143mm Toupes. The 130 is just a bit less stable, but possibly nicer to race on.

Thats a good point,I have the other specialized saddle can't think of the name of it.Its also 143mm wide its so uncomfortable on spins over 20 miles it has a cut out in the centre thought it would suit me I was very mistaken.

Saddle advice is a very tricky

Hail 2 Da Thief

I have a Selle Italia XO & after a couple of hours into a spin it becomes uncomfortable. Time to try a different saddle!

LastGasp

FergusF wrote: »

How does the quality compare to Brooks? Were you caught for VAT? -- and what colour did you go for?

Hi Fergus, Brooks probably have the edge on quality but they are quite nicely made. The only thing I was concerned about was comfort for long Audax events and so far it certainly does that. Didn't get caught for vat, and got plain old black because I couldn't make up my mind which other colour would suit my black bike.

murph226

I currently have a loan of a Fizik Aliante test saddle, bit too much padding, causes numbness very early!

Hoping to get a different one to try tomorrow.

mc2000

I have an Aliante, have had it for 3yrs now, and I find it really comfortable. I've tried the prologo scratch on a hire bike and I thought that was nice too.

On another hire bike, I tried a [very good, allegedly] prologo cutout one that was kind of in two haves joined thru the nose - from side on view this was super-thin looking, but good holy jebus it was like sliding along a blade - the two sides were perfectly positioned to splay you in two, pushing your sit bones in directions you did not want to go.

As father Jack would say: [my] "Arse!":eek:

'68 Fastback

Which shops have Fizik test models? Are they like hens teeth or is it easy enough to borrow one?
I have to replace a Flight ti and I like the sound of the Antares, sounds about right for my position and flexibility, but I'd like to try it out first.

I'm in Dublin BTW.

pprendeville

Anyone have a contact in CSS they could lobby to get the Prologo saddles on the Wednesday deal?

SurferDude41

I have a bright idea:D
How about a saddle swap? I reckon nearly everybody on here has a few saddles their sheds, that they found uncomfortable. I think most would be happy to exchange their unwanted touture devices, for something else...

Perhaps one of the mods might sticky it up?

gman2k

Good price on the B17 Std at Evans at the moment
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/brooks/b17-std-saddle-ec007597#BVRRWidgetID

SurferDude41

Over the years I have tried lots of different saddles, however I always end up reinstalling my favourite "the rolls" when my arse eventually decides enough is enough...
I have tried in vain to become friends with the fizik antares, I just found it too flat front to back and edge to edge....
It's a saddle that you sit on rather than in, insofar as it seems to make
you sit solely on your ischial tuberosity's.
Now they "the cycling coaches" say this is the ideal way, in which a cyclist should connect with their saddle. Apparently any preassure on the sourounding soft tissue is not a good idea, especially if you are planning to produce some children in the near future...
The main reason why I stopped riding the antares was, I seemed to develop quite a lot of saddle sores while I was testing it.
I reckon everybody's sit bones are shaped differently, some people find those flat saddles like the arione and the antares comfortable. While a firmly padded and more curved platform is my preference.

The fizik Aliante seems to do the exact oppsite of the antares.
It has a pronounced curve, running front to back, and a hammoc effect quite flat section edge to edge. I found this very position limiting as there is just one sweet spot, in which the rider can apply the power. I have spoken to many riders who find the aliante the most comfortable saddle they have ever ridden.
Personally I find it's padding is just too soft, allowing ones dellicate unairy tract to connect with and be irritated by all of that soft and spongy padding.
So while out for a short summers evening ride, I experianced a sudden sharp pain in my groin.
Now I had been happily riding the aliante for several months before this happened, and was somewhat taken aback by my arses sudden rejection of fizik's super comfortable saddle.
When I finally managed to get home, I noticed quite a lot of blood in my urine...Had some medical checks that were thankfully all negative...

I had a few short rides on the fizik arione,
Firstly I can see the advantage this saddle provides, its around four centimetres longer than a conventional saddle.
This gives its rider plenty of room to slide rearwards while climbing, recruiting those powerful gluteal muscles, so much so I found myself able to pedal a slightly larger gear on any given incline.
I so wanted to like this saddle, but after two hours I lost all sensation in my male plumbing department.
The conclusion I drew from this is, for a broad hipped rider like myself, the arione is just too narrow. Although Magnus Blackstead might dissagree.. After my short affair with the arione, I decided to try the antares....this is slightly shorter than the arione, and much wider....The lack of any proper skirt on the antares was just another thing I disliked about this saddle , it allowed it to dig into the outermost part of my perineum, where my leg joins my body....

I hope some of my insights regarding saddles has been of some help,
At the moment I am testing a San marco Regal-e. The shape is identical to the old regal this is the saddle favoured by the classics specialists like Tom Boonen and Stijn Devolder, and indeed the great Greg Lemond won nearly all of his races on a regal.
Make no mistake the regal and the new regal-e are hard thinly padded saddles, favoured by the hard men of cycling.
The main advantage is thin padding dosen't compress over time, while the extra width provides us big guys a stable platform to push against. Another thing to be aware of, you don't really ever break these saddles in. "They break you in."
There is a lot of muscle attachment around a cyclists ischial tuberosities, so the trick is to be patient while your anatomy addapts to the rock hard saddle.
The payoff to being able to ride a thinly padded saddle is the lack of saddle boils, its the squidgy padding that causes most of the trouble.

My initial impressions are favourable, it's a wide saddle 148mm to be exact.
However I have noticed several improvements on the old regal. Firstly it has longer rails enabling a more rearward seating position, if you happen to have longer femurs like I do.
Secondly it features small divots in the plastic shell, these are filled with some extra padding and provide a little additional comfort for my sit bones. A much needed improvement over the old regal.
The last improvement or evolution over the old regal, is the extra added flex in the nose section. This is acheived by thinning out the hull of this saddle in the nose section.

Will keep you posted lads...

Happy cycling

rottenhat

I have a Brooks B17 on one bike, and a Brooks Swallow (or maybe a Swift? pretty sure it's a Swallow) on the other. I find them both good but I haven't yet ridden more than 120k in a day on the Swallow whereas I've had 400k+ days on the B17 without any more issues than I would have from sitting in a chair for that long. Both are set up with nose and rear level. Relatively speaking both are quite wide saddles - 170mm and 155mm respectively - and that suits me. The last plastic saddle I had was a Selle Italia Flite (135mm, IIRC) and that was too narrow - felt like I was straddling an iron bar. The B17 feels a bit too wide after I've been riding the Swallow, probably because the skirts are flaring a bit as the saddle ages, but after a couple of hours I don't notice it any more so it's obviously not a major problem and I probably wouldn't notice it on a new B17. I've also had a Brooks Team Pro - the shape suited me very well but it just would not break in appreciably even after several years on my work bike when I was a courier and it has no saddlebag loops so I don't use it at all any more.

SurferDude41

Hey rottenhat,

Was always curious about brooks saddles,
I guess the thing is I always associate brooks saddles with men in flatcaps, who ride highnellie bikes. These fellas would usually be smoking a ciggarette as they cycled on their way to work.
I just can't get past those negative images of the brooks saddles, otherwise I would have installed a team professional or a swallow years ago.

Im like a woman, who is looking for that elusive comfortable pair of highheel shoes. When in reality a sensible pair of brogs would be infinately more comfortable.

Obviously there is no place for such vanity during a 500 kilometre brevet.
Maybe I will try a brooks in the future, in the dark on my own.
I don't think my fragile ego could take the ensuing jibes of my athlete friends, if I showed up with a brooks saddle mounted on my bike.:eek:

Happy cycling:) SD...

CramCycle

SurferDude41 wrote: »

I don't think my fragile ego could take the ensuing jibes of my athlete friends, if I showed up with a brooks saddle mounted on my bike.:eek:

I would disagree.

I've seen a few people using Brooks during races always the Swift or the Swallow, even heard of a Boardsie doing the Dublin Triathlon a few years ago on one (he has since learned that being a triathlete is not cool and has moved onto the increasingly cooler thing of touring the world by bike). Fair enough if your a weight weenie or a pro rider.

Then you've got all the hipsters attaching them to their fixies for that style.

To be honest, if style is your main/only concern than a Brooks is about as stylish as your going to get.

gman2k

The Saddle Section of the "It's all about the bike" book is quite good about Brooks and their saddles.
Pity the rest of the book is wishy washy. Big disappointment :-(

Quigs Snr

redmaxi wrote: »

I've also got a C2 and feel discomfort on the sit bones after 2 hrs. I've tried all the fizik's to no avail. A slr kit carbonio flow came very close. I became convinced then that an SLR XP 180 would be the answer and purchased one which turned out to be a right ass hatchet for me.
Delighted to be back on the C2 today after 500 increasingly more uncomfortable miles on the SLR, which funny enough started out great but went downhill rapid with too much pressure on the perinium.

P.S. If anyone wants to swap a saddle for the Slr xp, trial or permanent, giz a shout.

What would you sell the xp for ?

rottenhat

CramCycle wrote: »

To be honest, if style is your main/only concern than a Brooks is about as stylish as your going to get.

Well, the ti-railed Swallow is a thing of beauty all right...you're never losing style points for having one of those on your bike. The B17 might look a bit out of place on a jazzy carbon fibre race machine.

doozerie

For anyone interested in a Specialized Toupe saddle, CycleStore has some reduced to £39.99 at the moment. They only have 130mm and 155mm ones for that price though.

redmaxi

Quigs Snr wrote: »

What would you sell the xp for ?

Ah the saga continues, I had to put the XP back on as while the C2 is comfortable to sit on it hurts on lower back but the XP doesn't.
I'm gonna suffer the XP for another bit and see if I/it break in.
If not I'd prefer to swap for something but will sell for €45.00. It's white and has only 500 odd miles up.

Coronal

doozerie wrote: »

For anyone interested in a Specialized Toupe saddle, CycleStore has some reduced to £39.99 at the moment. They only have 130mm and 155mm ones for that price though.

Nice one, been looking for one of these for a while. Half price is always good

jusmeig

Must admit I suffer from this quite a bit on longer rides.
I got a Prologo Nago saddle and after 100k+ get quite a bit of numbness.

I agree that standing up every now and again helps, but I was wondering if anyone has used this saddle with any success?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/prologo-nago-pas-gel-saddle

Its the same saddle as I have but with a cutout and gel, designed to reduce pressure "in that area"

Anyone?