Writing a constitution for a new country debate

quirkster

Interesting debate with friends recently in light of the Libya situation.
A country has just become democratic. Its poor and ethnically diverse and unequal.
If you had to choose what electoral and goverment systems there had to be, which would you choose and why?

Majoritarianism or Proportional Representation?

Presidentalism or Parliamentary?

Personally for me, it'd be Pro.Rep and Parlia. only because I'm the most familiar with it here in Ireland and wouldn't back myself to dole out the advantages or disadvantages of Presidentialism or Majoritarianism (if there are any for the latter)

What think ye?

Denerick

This is a potentially interesting discussion. I would opt for PR (Will offer plurality in the political system and will prevent the dispirate tribes from becoming jealous of one tribe gaining from disproportionate representation due to the allocation of constituencies. Parliamentary democracies with symbolic Presidencies are also the most important means to prevent the rise of dictatorship (Just look at some of the South American countries that adopted the Presidential system and how easy it was for Presidents to become Presidents for life)

Libya has to build a civil society from scratch. Its people are poorly educated and frankly, the role of any new State may be subservient to regional and tribal interests. Perhaps a federal model would be best, as this would allow the tribal/parish pump elements to look after their own concerns whilst leaving a national government in Tripoli to take care of major affairs of State. Money won't be an issue; oil will lubricate the public sector. Libya also has great investment potential, especially from major EU countries. Provided an independent democratic Libya achieves preferential trading status with the EU, the country has an awful lot of potential.

The same goes for both Tunisia and Egypt. Both countries have great untapped economic potential and the ability to lift millions out of poverty (Albeit without the lubricant of oil)

Corruption will probably remain the greatest single problem (Something which has prevent Nigeria from reaching its true potential) followed closely by policing. Unravelling a police state will be difficult. Its remedy will have to be strong constitutional guarantees for the freedom of the press and strict guidelines for a new civil police.

Wolfe Tone

I think the biggest challenge would be building a legal system. Do you cast off all that went before or try and retain it? Difficult to make sure old laws are compatible with a new constitution.

Denerick

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think the biggest challenge would be building a legal system. Do you cast off all that went before or try and retain it? Difficult to make sure old laws are compatible with a new constitution.

I don't think there was much of a legal system under Gadaffi. Clearly an independent judiciary will have to be established; something incredibly difficult to do. Graft seems inevitable. I think we westerners take our legal system for granted, it works rather well.

Manach

Discussing recent constitutions at college, the South African one garnered the most praise, followed by the previous front-runner, Ireland's.

Eliot Rosewater

Denerick wrote: »

Parliamentary democracies with symbolic Presidencies are also the most important means to prevent the rise of dictatorship (Just look at some of the South American countries that adopted the Presidential system and how easy it was for Presidents to become Presidents for life)

I think that's an excellent point! Some people say George Washington refused to run for a third US Presidential term because he didn't want the office turned into something like that of a king - and other presidents most certainly believed in that. I was surprised to hear that the 2-term limit was only codified in the 1950s - it was a cultural thing up to then.

In fact, it probably serves as a good example of how cultures can shape governance. Many of the South American states have term limits, but those holding office just tweak them. Seemingly there's a large difference between a political establishment instituting a rule and actually living in its spirit.

But if high cultural standards are a prerequisite for a functioning democratic system it doesn't give one much hope for Libya.

Manach wrote: »

Discussing recent constitutions at college, the South African one garnered the most praise, followed by the previous front-runner, Ireland's.

Interesting. Could you explain why those constitutions were praised?

cavedave

Wolfe Tone

I think the biggest challenge would be building a legal system. Do you cast off all that went before or try and retain it? Difficult to make sure old laws are compatible with a new constitution.

What systems of law work best. I think the vast majority of the wealthiest countries have a common law system with strong protection of property rights. Does anyone know a good book on the different systems of law and their effect on society/economic growth?

amacachi

Denerick wrote: »

Its people are poorly educated...

Isn't there a school in Libya that has its students sit the Leaving Cert? Nuff said. :pac:

Some kind of federal system would be the best plan IMO with PR in each area. PR in national elections in somewhere that will be as politically fractured as Libya is likely to be would lead to unwieldy coalitions I would have thought.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Cuddlytroll

What's interesting is that in most poor states the notion of democracy is moot. People assume that all you need for a democracy to work is to hold an election, but where the average income is below a certain level it has been shown that democracy can be harmful as the organs of the state aren't strong enough to hold impartial elections. Votes are simply bought or miscounted so it can't function as a system. There's a great podcast about it here http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2010/20100615t1830vSZT.aspx

Belfast

quirkster wrote: »

Interesting debate with friends recently in light of the Libya situation.
A country has just become democratic. Its poor and ethnically diverse and unequal.
If you had to choose what electoral and goverment systems there had to be, which would you choose and why?

Majoritarianism or Proportional Representation?

Presidentalism or Parliamentary?

Personally for me, it'd be Pro.Rep and Parlia. only because I'm the most familiar with it here in Ireland and wouldn't back myself to dole out the advantages or disadvantages of Presidentialism or Majoritarianism (if there are any for the latter)

What think ye?

Small central government (Presidentalism) with stong local govement.