why are game dealers getting the blame for deer lamping??

rocketman3

why are all game dealers getting the blame for deer lamping..

even if games dealers were giving 3 euro a kg..

lampers would still lamp no matter what they do its for a sport..

i dont think its right blaming game dealers for doing there job at least there trying to help the country by giving money so more people would spend it..

its not like people are going to shoot every deer in Ireland they multiply every year..


sorry lads i act just copied this from irishshooters.

i ment 2 put in that its a joke what he thinks.

endasmail

form an orderly cue

Cass

rocketman3 wrote: »

why are all game dealers getting the blame for deer lamping..

Because people's perception is that if the price of venison was not so good or the meat in such demand that lampers would not be shooting either at all or at least in the quantities they currently are.

Same as every other illegal activity. Its the same old argument, if there was no demand there would be no crime.

even if games dealers were giving 3 euro a kg..

lampers would still lamp no matter what they do its for a sport..

How so?

If a lad(s) are shooting 3/5/12+ deer per night 3 times a week what would they be doing with all the meat? Even taking the game dealers out of it they would still be selling the meat. Its not a sport otherwise a license for it could be got for every legitimate stalker.

i dont think its right blaming game dealers for doing there job at least there trying to help the country by giving money so more people would spend it..

I agree fully that with or without the game dealers the deer would be shot.

I would argue the point that if a group of lads shoot 20 deer per week. The time it takes to clean, skin, cut and sell the meat would be alot longer than than driving a trailer up to a game dealer and offloading the entire lott in one go.

My point being they are not responsible for the lamping and poaching of deer, but as with all professions there could be the few bad apples that do not hold to the higher standards of the others and take in deer, irrespective of sex, season, amount, etc. By doing so they encourage the trade others try to eradicate.

its not like people are going to shoot every deer in Ireland they multiply every year..

Thats not the real problem. The problem as i see it is poachers do not carefully select the animals they shoot. If it has four legs, its game. Most stalkers/hunters would have some experience in selceting the age, amount of deer they shoot. As time passes they learn more and more which deer to take and when.

Then there is the land issues. Every lad on here and probably every shooter out there has at some point had lads poaching their land. They do not care for permissions or tresspassing. They do not care what damage they cause to property or livestock. They have nothing to loose.

All legal, and licensed hunters DO. So its not all about numbers.

Grizzly 45

They would be making a Hell of alot more money if it was possible to sell directly to a market[IE resturant,butchers].However it would also wipe out the game dealers[not a great loss IMHO] and cut out the untraceability of carcasses.You Joe Hunter sold carcass to Jim Resturanter.If Jill Client gets sick after her venision pie due to maggotts in the meat,trace back to Joe Hunter for maybe not preparing and cleaning the carcass properly.No middleman to hide behind.This would be a benefit as it would encourage alot more stalkers to take up courses on food grade butchering and possibly invest in the necessary rooms and facilities to butcher in accordance with H&S law.Thuss getting more money into the economy that way.

Nor is this poaching in the true sense of the word.
A genuine poacher would not recklessly damage the eco system to this extent that he would be depriving himself of a harvest in future years.
Or even letting himself be known to shoot on this massive extent.All they would do is take enough to fill their freezers and maybe their families.That is why they are rarely if ever caught...They dont sell game and keep their illegal activity very low key..This is illegal game harvesting on a commercial scale.No better than dumping crude oil on a oyster bed.

And the simple reason this is happening is simply as Ezidx said is there is a demand for the meat,nothing else.

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They would be making a Hell of alot more money if it was possible to sell directly to a market[IE resturant,butchers].However it would also wipe out the game dealers[not a great loss IMHO] and cut out the untraceability of carcasses.You Joe Hunter sold carcass to Jim Resturanter.If Jill Client gets sick after her venision pie due to maggotts in the meat,trace back to Joe Hunter for maybe not preparing and cleaning the carcass properly.No middleman to hide behind.This would be a benefit as it would encourage alot more stalkers to take up courses on food grade butchering and possibly invest in the necessary rooms and facilities to butcher in accordance with H&S law.Thuss getting more money into the economy that way.

your entering into to the realm of public liability insurance for stalkers in that case or youd end up homless

crackcrack30

deer??
whats the biggest deer you have shot this year.??

iv shot few nice fallow and 1 nice 6 pointer sika..

have you noticed that there is not as many stags around this year??

i think its the poaching over the last few year thats destroying them..
Last edited by rocketman3; 17-11-2010 at 21:22.

Spunk84

Why do drug dealers get the blame when someone overdoses ?
Supply and demand my friend!Supply and demand

crackcrack30

Spunk84 wrote: »

Why do drug dealers get the blame when someone overdoses ?
Supply and demand my friend!Supply and demand

Far too simple a view ..... two subjects like these and there concequences and legalities can not be sumed up or linked with a one line soundbite, but it may suit some people to do so.........cc30

J. Ramone

rocketman3 wrote: »

why are all game dealers getting the blame for deer lamping..

Are they complaining? Perhaps there is a feeling of discontent with some in the trade. Do they feel that they are being hounded and victimised with these rumours going around that their records could be subject to verification procedures?

natdog

Do the game dealers ever get on to the npws and report people that are bringing in excessive amounts of deer for example a trailer load or even deer that are shot out of season like a doe in october?
maybe they do but i personally doubt it

Grizzly 45

4gun wrote:

your entering into to the realm of public liability insurance for stalkers in that case or youd end up homless

And like as a stalker/hunter you dont have public liability insurance??Its pretty simple concept..You dont have the approved qualification to sell the carcass for public consumption..you are comitting a criminal act,[nothing stopping you eating it yourself].If you have the qualification,no problem.When you sell the carcass,you would be obliged to provide your name address,and H&S approved butchering cert number.
Yes I admit there will and are fukups in the production of meat,but this is on a massive commercial scale.You as an individual preparing a half dozen carcasses PA,should be more aware of a bad carcass going into the food chain.
Not to mind this sort of commerical qualification would genuinely root out the cowboys and harvesters.Not the ligit stalkers,as if you didnt want to sell the game why do you need a qualification to prepare stuff for your own table??

4gun

there would occur a time when you would have excess meat(if your a reasonable stalker on reasonable ground) if your not able to sell to game dealer what do you do with it
I am in totall agreement that if there was no market for commercial poachers they wouldnt exist
tighter controlls still wouldnt eliminate the problem , one possible solution would be to consider poaching with firearm as a serious gun crime and penalise accordingly

ballistic

Anyone who lamps deer is not a sports man. Except in the case of a genuine section 42 (which are few and far between).

Fallow01

Spunk84 - your post answers it in a nutshell

How do we know the deer numbers are multiplying (or even decreasing)?

Do you think if a game dealer sees a guy arriving in his yard with 20 deer all head shot, he asks whether the deer were lamped, shot legally or illegally? No he sees €'s!

Game Dealers are necessary for surplus legally shot venison but should be closed down if caught with deer taken illegally