The Crowd *potential spoilers with talk of crowd reaction*

Bounty Hunter

1 problem faced by wrestlers these days that wasnt the case in the past and yes could be blamed on the PG era among other things is the crowd. The crowd is far quieter these days. Very rarely is there the massive pop's we were accustoned to in the past, only big returns from people like The Rock or maybe Bret can get that these days.

It isn't always the poorer wrestlers slash material either that can result in a poor reaction from a crowd as we have seen recently with even the Rock struggling to get a reaction from them. It is distinctly noticable these days when the WWE have a good crowd in as so many little things just work so much better than usual. Take for example when they were overseas in the UK and did the Santino/Kozlov/Sheamus bit and got a great response.

What can be done to a) improve the crowd reactions b) work around a poor crowd to still get an idea be it a match, wrestler, angle or whatever over?

JohnMc1

I think the wrestling market is way over saturated now that I think most fans are just burned out now.

Penn

I think it's the younger kids to be honest. Aiming the product at younger kids who are never going to shout And cheer as much during the show as teens and adults. And with a lot of younger kids in the audience now, everyone is nearly always sitting down, whereas before, when 90% of wrestlers entrance music played they'd all jump to their feet.

Kids watch the show. Older people become part of the show.

CMpunked

Barrington wrote: »

I think it's the younger kids to be honest. Aiming the product at younger kids who are never going to shout And cheer as much during the show as teens and adults. And with a lot of younger kids in the audience now, everyone is nearly always sitting down, whereas before, when 90% of wrestlers entrance music played they'd all jump to their feet.

Kids watch the show. Older people become part of the show.

Id disagree.
Kids love to pop for their favorite wrestlers. Look at the reception John Cena gets in the o2.
The trouble is, they dont keep it going.

Music hits, big yay, then it slowly fizzles out. Its like trying to start a chant in japan.

Super-Rush

TNA fans are by far the worst i have ever seen. When TNA do something right the crowd just sits there and does nothing.

GTR63

I think nothing Kills a crowd like constant promos.The last two weeks of Raw has been that really.If you paid X amount of Dollars you'd want to see Wrestlers actually Wrestle not Shawn Michaels going through the motions or Cena Responding to the Rock,Rock responds to Cena then wait for it...Cena responds back to the Rock.I don't feel like i'm getting Value for staying up never mind paying for it.

parker kent

The crowds are poor in all but a few places. Philly, New York and Texas stand out as places with decent crowds. I thought they were very good last night on Raw. Granted Steve Austin was returning in Texas, but there were pretty big pops throughout.

Overall though, I agree the crowds are not what they were. I think there are 2 big reasons. Firstly there is the obvious differences in the demographics at shows now. There are just simply different people attending now for various reasons. The second reason is that fans typically don't have a whole lot to respond to. Randy Orton makes no attempt to gel with the crowd. Cena is extremely divisive. CM Punk is a heel so that limits his reactions (although I think he gets decent chants, particularly when he was semi-face as a commentator). Then you have lots and lots of people who either don't know how to connect with fans or else do not get a chance.

Vickie has shown that you can get a reaction. You just have to know how. But that reaction will not be the same as the best pops from the past.

glenjamin

Those fcuking 'What?' chants do my head in. No matter where you go they're always there whenever a heel is on the mic. When Sheamus first entered the WWE all you could hear was 'what?' after every sentense. It took the edge completely off his promos when he was trying to be serious and generate heat but instead got 'what?', 'what?', 'what?'.

How Soon Is Now

I think problem with the crowd generates from who there chearing for or in this case not chearing for.

I mean theres a couple of factors and i have noticed this meself from going to live events in Dublin.

I remember summer bash good few years back in the rds which was an outdoor event at the time wrestling was not the PG fest it is now and i have to say most of the wrestling fans in this country are all over a certain age there the types who have been watching since they where kids.

The crowd where amazing for this sure i lost me voice that night thats how much i was chanting and shouting.

Year later i went to event in the old point the whole thing was mostly kids crowd was awful was nothing but screaming random crap and this would last for all of five minutes. I saw more toliet breaks and throwing stuff then actual wrestling fans it was just all ma and da s with there kids who really dont have a clue what there even watching.

This i feel is what is happening in American on a more wider and different level face is the wwe and wrestling is and has always been massive in the states but last few years its been milked out to kids big time everytime i watch raw i feel like its coming to me live from Nickelodean.

So you add in the fact that now we dont have top level promo wrestlers like we did in the day and that they cant get same kinda reaction from the crowd seeing as the crowd is no longer solely over 20s and long term fans.

It helps an event so much when you have a hot crowd that are there to rip up the place and create an amazing buzz and special athmosphere in the arena the type of crowd that know why they here and know what and who there watching. This has watered down over the years and its now mostly your family day out type crowd.

Ridley

super-rush wrote: »

TNA fans are by far the worst i have ever seen. When TNA do something right the crowd just sits there and does nothing.

"This. Is. Awesome!" *clap clap clap-clap-clap*

Think Punked's got it. Kids like their U C Me and What's Ups but they don't bay for blood.

Or I could just quote Spider-Man 2:

He knows a hero when he sees one. Too few characters out there, flying around like that, saving old girls like me. And Lord knows, kids like Henry need a hero. Courageous, self-sacrificing people. Setting examples for all of us. Everybody loves a hero. People line up for them, cheer them, scream their names. And years later, they'll tell how they stood in the rain for hours just to get a glimpse of the one who taught them how to hold on a second longer.

Then they pop a cap (America) like GTA.

The crowd reaction I don't like is the one-man "Boring" chant. How dare someone do a headlock in a wrestling match. Triple somersault through a table plz.

Not that I'd be fist pumping or cheering wildly at a show myself. Don't think WWE has found the comfortable balance between the Hogan and Attitude eras They're looking for yet. We need a Spider-Man, Batman, Indiana Jones or Luke Skywalker when we're getting Pee Wee Herman and Snooki.

sky88

i think the problem is with the crowds is that with all the parents there with the kids the parents most likely have no intrest when i see the crowd shots of them so i think they create no sound so it doesnt help with atmosphere

Vince135792003

Barrington wrote: »

I think it's the younger kids to be honest. Aiming the product at younger kids who are never going to shout And cheer as much during the show as teens and adults.

In the mid to early 90's the show was even more aimed at kids and arenas were filled with them. The reactions were still huge.

Winning and losing rarely has any consequences and without consequences no one is given a reason to shout.

Contrast the Hart Foundations pop at Summerslam 1990 when the won the belts to when there is any sort of a title change today.

jaykhunter

Vince is right. Wins and losses don't matter. Title changes don't matter. FACE Wrestlers are having a tremendous problem making a connection with the fans. Storylines aren't great. Oversaturation : Too many hours of TV and too many PPVs. All of this = apathy.

ayatollah

i always felt the time that Vince played the fans like a fiddle was during the hart foundation anti america angle - the difference between the crowd reactions depending which side of the border they were on was insane!

man i loved that angle

Big Daddy Cool

glenjamin wrote: »

Those fcuking 'What?' chants do my head in. No matter where you go they're always there whenever a heel is on the mic. When Sheamus first entered the WWE all you could hear was 'what?' after every sentense. It took the edge completely off his promos when he was trying to be serious and generate heat but instead got 'what?', 'what?', 'what?'.

WHAT?

Exclamation Marc

Barrington wrote: »

I think it's the younger kids to be honest. Aiming the product at younger kids who are never going to shout And cheer as much during the show as teens and adults. And with a lot of younger kids in the audience now, everyone is nearly always sitting down, whereas before, when 90% of wrestlers entrance music played they'd all jump to their feet.

Kids watch the show. Older people become part of the show.

I agree with Barrington on this one. A lot of kids go to the show to see their favorite wrestler like John Cena and remain mute for the rest of the show purely because they're huge into Cena or whoever they like and thats where it ends. They boo if something bad happens to Cena and they cheer for when he does well. When the divas or a legend or a different angle is going down I don't think they have much interest in it.

When you hit mid-late teens you get more excited in the product as a whole and can engage and react in the show from start to finish. I remember when I was very young I loved Bret Hart and the British Bulldog and a good few others and when they were in the ring I'd be glued to my TV and would be cheering, but then when the rest of the show is on I was watching it sure, but I wasn't as emotive. I couldn't really care if some bad guy was getting the better of some good guy because they're weren't "my favorite"

Then I hit my teens in the late 90s and started really enjoying the product as a whole and getting into every division and match and angle.

And I think thats the problem with todays crowds. The product is aimed more so at kids who are so focused on their favorites rather than the show itself, that they just don't react to the rest of the show. In the late 90s there were a hell of a lot less kids of the age you see at shows today and thats why reactions were better because the crowd were older and came to see the show more so than 'their' guy.

---

Another problem I think exists is what jaykhunter said and its the oversaturation. The "moments" aren't there anymore because things that could be built as special occur far too often. When the crowds were hot in the late 90s, whether or not you agree whether the product was better/worse the moments where Rock would square off against Austin were few and far between. The moments where Undertaker and Austin would face off were a lot fewer. Now with so much TV and PPVs the feuds are on rotation and you'll have the same guys squaring off against each other every couple of months so its hard to get excited about Miz v Cena seeing as they were feuding only a few months ago. Also these guys interact a lot more on TV so its a lot harder for WWE to be able to hold off on the payout.

Look at Sting v Hogan in the 90s, the crowd were so into that because they were teased for nearly a year with the moment these guys would finally square off. You wouldn't see that today because feuds have a shorter shelf life and the crowds interest level wouldn't span that long and WWE would push for a quicker payoff meaning that feuds never really develop into something massively emotional and gripping. If I see these guys square up every two months why would I care much for seeing them square up at a PPV?

Jolt2007

The lack of anybody having a personality would have a lot to do with it I would think. It wasn't the edginess that made the attitude era for me, it was that pretty much everybody had some kind of a personality or character trait to care about in some way from Austin all the way down to the Mean Street Posse.

Now very few have any traits to care about at all, but the ones that do actually get a reaction (Santino the lovable goof, Lawler the veteran getting a final shot at glory, Del Rio the wealthy heel etc). Not great usually reactions, but something. Why should people care about and want to cheer a Daniel Bryan or Kofi Kingston, or boo and hate a Drew McIntyre or even The Miz?

jaykhunter

I reckon a lot of the negatives on today's product (seen in the "Will WWE ever get back to the glory days?" thread) can be applied to why crowd reactions are lower. The last few years have seen the variations of Triple H-Orton-Cena beaten into the ground for the last few years; nobody can still be that rabid to see a match they've seen many, many times, nevermind not having a good storyline to back it up.

But yes, having a young crowd definitely doesn't help. 1 adult cheering is about the noise of 4 children cheering, but they aren't as emotionally invested either.

This raises the question - which product would be better - 2 crazy over stars and the rest pretty awful; or everyone's quite good but no-one's crazy over?

Exclamation Marc

That's very true, there are a hell of a lot of guys in the mid-card who are of the "black trunks" variety, totally devoid of personality.

jaykhunter

fwiw in 5 years WWE will have established a fresh crop of main-eventers and the crowd reactions will be much better.

That said, WWE love not mentioning the past (seen with HHH/Taker @ X7) so it works against them when they bring back old stars.....double-edged sword, Vince!

Charisteas

angerfist2009 wrote: »

Year later i went to event in the old point the whole thing was mostly kids crowd was awful was nothing but screaming random crap and this would last for all of five minutes. I saw more toliet breaks and throwing stuff then actual wrestling fans it was just all ma and da s with there kids who really dont have a clue what there even watching

Yeah it was the same last year in the o2, kids running everywhere, half of them seemed bored during the actual wrestling and only cared about the entrances, and parents with packed lunches bored out of their skulls.

Maybe it was because I was in the cheap seats and the hard-core fans were in the front sections, but anyway it's the reason I probably won't be going to the house show next month.