Michael Noonan is our new finance minister

mike65

No surprise.

ilovesleep

He would have to be miles better than Brian Lenihan. He's got to be. Nobody could be as bad as BL. In fact I'd have more faith in Bosco doing his sums correctly than BL.

MagicSean

ilovesleep wrote: »

He would have to be miles better than Brian Lenihan. He's got to be. Nobody could be as bad as BL. In fact I'd have more faith in Bosco doing his sums correctly than BL.

Thank god. If Labour had gotten finance I'd be emmigrating.

mikemac

Here's hoping he does a better job then he did in Health and the McCole family

liammur

mike65 wrote: »

No surprise.

Why anyone would want this role now is beyond me.

Noonan is probably the best politician in the country though. Shame he didn't get to lead FG into government in 2002, somehow I don't think we'd be in the mess we are in now.

littlesthobo

A brave man. On a list of thankless tasks it has to nearly top at the moment.

Agree with k mac above, labour getting finance would have been a disaster for the country

danbohan

k_mac wrote: »

Thank god. If Labour had gotten finance I'd be emmigrating.

the fact that they are in government at all might want you to keep that little option on the back burner

liammur

littlesthobo wrote: »

A brave man. On a list of thankless tasks it has to nearly top at the moment.

Agree with k mac above, labour getting finance would have been a disaster for the country

Why would it have been?

Sad Professor

What's the source for this? The Sunday World suggests the department is being divided between FG and Labour.

johnayo

Noonan is an experienced and able politican. I have no doubt he is a good man for the job. Now lets hope he gets on with it, and not spend the next year flogging the old mantra of telling us how things are much worse than he first believed.

littlesthobo

liammur wrote: »

Why would it have been?

Well for a start, because i believe that cutting the deficit over a longer period of time would be the wrong move. This may still happen, mind you, as we don't know what has been agreed.

I don't believe Labour have the appetite to tackle the public sector unions if the required savings are not attained in the PS.

I don't have confidence in Joan Burton's capabilities and with all due respect to her I cant see her representing Ireland well at meetings of EU finance ministers

littlesthobo

mike65 wrote: »

No surprise.

Not that I doubt you Mike but a source would be nice!!

liammur

littlesthobo wrote: »

Well for a start, because i believe that cutting the deficit over a longer period of time would be the wrong move. This may still happen, mind you, as we don't know what has been agreed.

I don't believe Labour have the appetite to tackle the public sector unions if the required savings are not attained in the PS.

I don't have confidence in Joan Burton's capabilities and with all due respect to her I cant see her representing Ireland well at meetings of EU finance ministers

This doesn't answer the question.

PS reform will fall under a new ministerial role, which is being given to Labour.
Cutting the deficit, they'll probably meet halfway on that one.

Amhran Nua

As I understand it, FG get Finance and Labour get a new "Ministry of the Public Sector".

mike65

Sad Professor wrote: »

What's the source for this? The Sunday World suggests the department is being divided between FG and Labour.

littlesthobo wrote: »

Not that I doubt you Mike but a source would be nice!!

I heard it on the finance show on Today FM, now it may not be official at this point of course but it sounded a done deal.

(don't shoot me if its you-know who)

Sand

The bad news is that Labour is getting the public sector reform portfolio. Jack O Connor and David Begg will be doing handstands of delight.

Manach

Perhaps Joan Burton herself might be given the ministry of communications, given how well she gets on Vincent Brown.
AFAIR, the Labour front bench actually had one business person - hopefully this rare beast does not get sidelined.

littlesthobo

mike65 wrote: »

I heard it on the finance show on Today FM, now it may not be official at this point of course but it sounded a done deal.

(don't shoot me if its you-know who)

No worries Mike. Just heard it on Newstalk now, and I may not have heard this correctly but labour get 6 ministries including a minister for public sector reform gig

ei.sdraob

Sand wrote: »

The bad news is that Labour is getting the public sector reform portfolio. Jack O Connor and David Begg will be doing handstands of delight.

Thats it so, default is now inevitable, there will be no public reform, just another quango run by the people who are meant to reform themselves.
Just like benchmarking and decentralization, this new push to "reform" will endup a sham.

bleh

Drumpot

k_mac wrote: »

Thank god. If Labour had gotten finance I'd be emmigrating.

Dont celebrate too early . .

Looks like labour will get a finance branch position looking after Public service reform . .

Savings from public spending = 0% . .

Rest of the taxpayers subsidising the ridiculously inneficient public service 100% . .

First chink in the armour . .

later12

Manach wrote: »

AFAIR, the Labour front bench actually had one business person - hopefully this rare beast does not get sidelined.

Who?

They have an unholy number of teachers and other public sector employees alongside lifelong politicians, one of whom a generation ago might have been an electrician if I remember correctly (Jack Wall). I don't know of any business people on their front bench.

P. Breathnach

Sad Professor wrote: »

What's the source for this? The Sunday World suggests the department is being divided between FG and Labour.

Some of the roles of the DoF might be transferred to a different ministry (particularly responsibility for the public service). But Minister for Finance is actually a constitutional office, and its core functions can not be divided.

Pete_Cavan

Drumpot wrote: »

Dont celebrate too early . .

Looks like labour will get a finance branch position looking after Public service reform . .

Savings from public spending = 0% . .

Rest of the taxpayers subsidising the ridiculously inneficient public service 100% . .

First chink in the armour . .

I think this is a good move by FG. Giving Labour Public service reform means FG are not seen to be taking a draconian slash and burn approach to the PS and reducing front line services, which many people were afraid of. It also puts pressure on Labour to do it right, otherwise FG will have a stick to beat them with in the next election campaign, Kenny can say "The main thing we asked you to do as part of this government was to reform the Public Service but you sold out to the unions and protected your buddies at the expense of the taxpayer" <insert dig about cronyism not dead here>

Unless Labour can find the efficiencies in the PS without alienating their left wing voters, FG will win a huge majority in the next GE, which could be within two years. The ball is in your court Eamon, you better not f*ck it up.

Baralis1

liammur wrote: »

Why anyone would want this role now is beyond me.

Noonan is probably the best politician in the country though. Shame he didn't get to lead FG into government in 2002, somehow I don't think we'd be in the mess we are in now.

Yeah thats true. Fine Gael would have done everything completely and absolutely differently and there would be no recession now.

toxicity234

Noonan,
O God No.
i have had the misfortune of dealing with this guy a few times.
and i really don't think he cut it.

meditraitor

Sand wrote: »

The bad news is that Labour is getting the public sector reform portfolio. Jack O Connor and David Begg will be doing handstands of delight.

ei.sdraob wrote:

Thats it so, default is now inevitable, there will be no public reform, just another quango run by the people who are meant to reform themselves.
Just like benchmarking and decentralization, this new push to "reform" will endup a sham.

bleh

drumpot wrote:

Dont celebrate too early . .

Looks like labour will get a finance branch position looking after Public service reform . .

Savings from public spending = 0% . .

Rest of the taxpayers subsidising the ridiculously inneficient public service 100% . .

First chink in the armour . .

Scaremongering nonsense from the usual suspects, all we are short of here is a permabear/donegalfella anti labour contribution and we have a full house.

Now back to a labour finance minister.....Have a look at Ruari Quinn and his time as Finance Minister, respected by both politician and businessman alike.

Basically to re-iterate what I said above, not one post is based on reality buy mudslinging ignorance which I had hoped would have been set aside now the election campaign is over....


In the interest of fairness I am going to contribute a point that would grace any one of you posts with honor, you's would be proud but for the subject who unfortunately is not Labour .

answer this one,Michael Noonans last contribution as a minister of state is memorable for what reason?
1. His excellence in the roll
2. Ineptitude of the highest order?

dizzywizlw

toxicity234 wrote: »

Noonan,
O God No.
i have had the misfortune of dealing with this guy a few times.
and i really don't think he cut it.

In reference to Brian Lenihan and Joan Burton?

liammur

Baralis1 wrote: »

Yeah thats true. Fine Gael would have done everything completely and absolutely differently and there would be no recession now.

Nonsense, no one knows that for sure.

liammur

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think this is a good move by FG. Giving Labour Public service reform means FG are not seen to be taking a draconian slash and burn approach to the PS and reducing front line services, which many people were afraid of. It also puts pressure on Labour to do it right, otherwise FG will have a stick to beat them with in the next election campaign, Kenny can say "The main thing we asked you to do as part of this government was to reform the Public Service but you sold out to the unions and protected your buddies at the expense of the taxpayer" <insert dig about cronyism not dead here>

Unless Labour can find the efficiencies in the PS without alienating their left wing voters, FG will win a huge majority in the next GE, which could be within two years. The ball is in your court Eamon, you better not f*ck it up.

Agreed, it's a damage limitation exercise from both parties.

Sand

@Meditraitor

I wouldnt complain too much about Ruairi Quinn, but hes not in the lead of the Labour party - Gilmore and Burton are, backed by Begg and O Connor. This is reflected in that the suggested Labour name for the public sector reform portfolio is Burton, not Quinn. Id be far more reassured if Quinn had a more dominant role in the Labour party - hes a realist. But Gilmore is the man running the show, and as the election demonstrated hes just talk.

Ireland is fighting for its existence as an independant, sovereign state. Labour are aligned with the very people public sector reform must be aimed at. I have no confidence in someone like Burton being able, or indeed even willing to face down Begg and O Connor in negotiations or being even idealogically capable of recognising any scenario in which the public sector unions and their influence might be viewed as a problem. We might as well appoint Seanie Fitzpatrick to sort out the banks.

@Pete_Cavan

I think its actually a very bad move for FG. With the MoF role, FG will be taking the heat for budget cuts - headline figures like 4-6 billion being cut for example. Those numbers will result directly into lost services and lost jobs in the public sector unless public sector reform is handled decisively and proactively so its key for FG to ensure that public sector reform succeeds. With Labour/Burton running public sector reform, there will be no savings or efficiencies found - just crude job cuts, which will result in the worst of both worlds for Fine Gael.

Einhard

later10 wrote: »

Who?

They have an unholy number of teachers and other public sector employees alongside lifelong politicians, one of whom a generation ago might have been an electrician if I remember correctly (Jack Wall). I don't know of any business people on their front bench.

I agree. I'd actually rather Labour getting Finance in order for FG to oversee PS reform. Although I think people are overstating the power of the individual minister. Whoever gets either job won't be able to implement anything unless it has the support of both parties.

liammur

Sand wrote: »

@Meditraitor


Ireland is fighting for its existence as an independant, sovereign state.

WE need to get real on this. Regardless of who or what is in power, this fight is truly lost, and has been for over 2 years.

Jaysoose

Einhard wrote: »

I agree. I'd actually rather Labour getting Finance in order for FG to oversee PS reform. Although I think people are overstating the power of the individual minister. Whoever gets either job won't be able to implement anything unless it has the support of both parties.

And of course beggs and oconnor will have to sign off also.

Einhard

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think this is a good move by FG. Giving Labour Public service reform means FG are not seen to be taking a draconian slash and burn approach to the PS and reducing front line services, which many people were afraid of. It also puts pressure on Labour to do it right, otherwise FG will have a stick to beat them with in the next election campaign, Kenny can say "The main thing we asked you to do as part of this government was to reform the Public Service but you sold out to the unions and protected your buddies at the expense of the taxpayer" <insert dig about cronyism not dead here>

Unless Labour can find the efficiencies in the PS without alienating their left wing voters, FG will win a huge majority in the next GE, which could be within two years. The ball is in your court Eamon, you better not f*ck it up.

That may be true, but what you say may benefit FG in the next election will hinder this country's chances of recovery.

Pete_Cavan

Sand wrote: »

@Pete_Cavan

I think its actually a very bad move for FG. With the MoF role, FG will be taking the heat for budget cuts - headline figures like 4-6 billion being cut for example. Those numbers will result directly into lost services and lost jobs in the public sector unless public sector reform is handled decisively and proactively so its key for FG to ensure that public sector reform succeeds. With Labour/Burton running public sector reform, there will be no savings or efficiencies found - just crude job cuts, which will result in the worst of both worlds for Fine Gael.

Most people now accept the scale of the adjustment that must be made and FG were elected to make these big cuts. Labour will get more flack for not making the necessary cuts in the PS. Also FG can blame Lab for protecting their vested interests (unions) if/when the economy doesnt pick up. The best of both worlds for Fine Gael imo.

Einhard wrote: »

That may be true, but what you say may benefit FG in the next election will hinder this country's chances of recovery.

True, but if FG are shrewd they could manipulate Lab into pulling out within two years, thus giving them the opportunity to get an overall majority in the next GE (see above).

mrsdewinter

toxicity234 wrote: »

Noonan,
O God No.
i have had the misfortune of dealing with this guy a few times.
and i really don't think he cut it.

I think he's a brilliant politician: he'd probably be a great chief whip, and his Dáil performances are beyond reproach. But I hope he's planning on surrounding himself with capable financial brains. Look at Charlie McCreevy: terrific politician, very intelligent - but he ended up looking into his own heart, rather than listening to his civil servants' advice, when it came to formulating budgets and policy.

drdoon

It's Mr Noonan alright. Now all he's got to do is go to Europe and give em what for!!! fat chance me thinks. Send in the big guns. I think O' leary should be on any panel negotiating this thing. We need strong stubborn hard nose business men and women. Not teachers!

hinault

drdoon wrote: »

It's Mr Noonan alright. Now all he's got to do is go to Europe and give em what for!!! fat chance me thinks. Send in the big guns. I think O' leary should be on any panel negotiating this thing. We need strong stubborn hard nose business men and women. Not teachers!

send on Jack and Begg - they ran rings around FF, surely they'd be able to do the same with the EU?:D

RichardAnd

drdoon wrote: »

It's Mr Noonan alright. Now all he's got to do is go to Europe and give em what for!!! fat chance me thinks. Send in the big guns. I think O' leary should be on any panel negotiating this thing. We need strong stubborn hard nose business men and women. Not teachers!

If we're sending O'Leary, why not send a few clowns and a popcorn machines so the europeans can enjoy the circus.

O'Leary knows buisness but the notion that he's fit to have anything to do with how this country is run is a fallacy. Clever guy but he has no manner, no sublty and only thinks about what suits him.

ei.sdraob

ilovesleep wrote: »

He would have to be miles better than Brian Lenihan. He's got to be. Nobody could be as bad as BL. In fact I'd have more faith in Bosco doing his sums correctly than BL.

Brian Cowen

I rest my case

dan_d

I was told yesterday by a life-long PS that this set up of having some sort of Minister over the public service itself is a return to how things were in "the old days" (by that she may mean anything up to....20 years ago?). And whatever they're looking to do with the health system is also a close enough return to the old system (all hospitals to be independent...or something..)

Is that true, does anyone know??

Riskymove

dan_d wrote: »

Is that true, does anyone know??

It is true to the extent that we once had a Department of Public Affairs or somehting like that and that there were different systems prior to the establishment of the HSE

I do not think that the actual proposed reforms or new systems are the same as previously tried

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

professore

RichardAnd wrote: »

Clever guy but he has no manner, no sublty and only thinks about what suits him.

Look where the bend over and take it attitude towards Europe has gotten us so far. I for one welcome our new Ryanair overlord.

rocksteady36

Again we are subjected to politicians who put unqualified people into the role of Finance Minister. Who cares if he is a great politician, so was Bertie Aherne.

So Enda Kenny was a school teacher and Noonan was also a teacher.

I am going to tell my kids to chill out, stop studying so hard, become a teacher in Primary school for a while then run as a TD and see what happens...

No offence to teachers, but I dont think a school teacher is really qualified to take on the department of finance.

If the people of Ireland were the real concern of the Irish then Richard Bruton should be minister of Finance, he is actually an economist ' At Oxford he graduated with a MPhil in Economics,[3] his thesis being on the subject of Irish public debt'

So here we go again, cant get an economist into the dept of finance, last it was one solicitor after another.

drdoon

uh oh, we is in trouble

lempsipmax

drdoon wrote: »

uh oh, we is in trouble

Why is that?

drdoon

lempsipmax wrote: »

Why is that?

We just are, no matter who is in charge now, there is NO magic pill. Just years and years of austerity, cuts, loans etc etc. We are almost 3 years into this recession/depression. Do you see any light? I sure don't. You won't see growth (excluding foreign owned exporters) in this country for probably 10 years. By that time I'll be middle aged. I'm supposed to make my money now. The chances of that are slipping away, every day that passes by. Even though I have just set up a business, I have spent today looking at visa applications for Canada.
Got planning permission after seven months. Now another government body want to stick their oar in and my proposal has to go to some committee I was never told about. So I have go ahead of two land owners, the local people, the council. But now theres a committee too, a secret, never before spoken about bloody committee who can stop my idea in its tracks if they so chose. This bloody country, jesus H Christ. It makes me sick. I came back here after eleven years in UK, I'm trying to make a start of it. Employ some people in an environmentally friendly way, creating local activities. It's no wonder the country is a mess, red tape, bloody bureaucrats, jobs for the boys and girls. OMG get me outta here or just make it simple and wipe the place out with a Tsunami, start fresh.