Upstairs Showers Leaking Onto Ceiling

dfbemt

2 upstairs showers are leaking onto the ceiling below.

I have siliconed around the shower door and then siliconed around the bottom of the tiles but water is still getting through.

Really p**sing me off at this stage.

Am I missing something? Obviously i am but what?

All help appreciated.

jugger

could the leak be comeing from the waste pipe where it meets the shower ???

indie armada

the part of the waste you can see in the shower tray is screwed into the waste underneath the tray.this pulls the trap up tight to the underneath of the tray and if loose will leak, also the part you can see is usually siliconed where it meets the tray and the degredation of this silicone can lead to leaking. also where the waste pipe is joined to the trap can leak also.
if lifting the floor is not posible then id use a 100mm hole saw to access the trap from the ceiling underneath the shower.
also worth sayin the trap is usually tightened up with a plastic tool that comes with the trap when you buy it and you could try to resilicone the trap before you start drilling holes in the ceiling.

Joey the lips

dfbemt wrote: »

2 upstairs showers are leaking onto the ceiling below.

I have siliconed around the shower door and then siliconed around the bottom of the tiles but water is still getting through.

Really p**sing me off at this stage.

Am I missing something? Obviously i am but what?

All help appreciated.

Where do you live on the northside. I might be passing at some stage. Dont post an exact address.

Anyway. We will need more information or photo's or both.

Generally showers leak because they are not sealed propperly

The most common place for a leak is in the corner or in general where the tile meets the tray. The next most common place is water leaking out through the door onto the floor and leaking where the tiles meet the tray.

Another as pointed out by someone already sometimes its not even the shower. Sometimes its the basin waste leaking and the leak is going down behind the tile and traveling across the ceiling and it looks like the shower


Lastly the biggest offender imo is flat baths. Screens are fitted to flat baths when showering the water flows along the bath and down the side panel. Then it gets through the ceiling between the floor and the panel.
a common sympton of this is the floor slightly warps causing the door to rub.

dfbemt

Thanks for replies.

Had thought of the waste so will check. I had opened it recently to take out hair from herself that was blocking it up so maybe I didn't put back right.

Really don't want to open up the ceiling underneath (sitting room) but will do if I have to.

Walls are tiled as far as the tray with a seal between so I don't think the water is getting in there. Had thought possibly where they join in the corner so I siliconed that area - still have leak ! Has anybody ever siliconed around the seal (sounds strange I know. Why else would it be called a seal !)

Looking at the water marks on the ceiling and measuring downstairs and upstairs the marks would appear to be around the front of the shower tray near to the waste trap.

Definitely no water getting out onto the floor.

Joey the lips

dfbemt wrote: »

Thanks for replies.

Had thought of the waste so will check. I had opened it recently to take out hair from herself that was blocking it up so maybe I didn't put back right.

Really don't want to open up the ceiling underneath (sitting room) but will do if I have to.

Walls are tiled as far as the tray with a seal between so I don't think the water is getting in there. Had thought possibly where they join in the corner so I siliconed that area - still have leak ! Has anybody ever siliconed around the seal (sounds strange I know. Why else would it be called a seal !)

Looking at the water marks on the ceiling and measuring downstairs and upstairs the marks would appear to be around the front of the shower tray near to the waste trap.

Definitely no water getting out onto the floor.

If your waste is leaking you wont spot it from inside the shower. Sorry.

Silicone does not bond very well to dry silicone Its because the 2 of them are subject to seperate movements.

If you have ruled out all. Inc the trap at the back of the sink leaking down then you are going to have to make a small home in the ceiling...

Look on the brightside... A plasterer will cost you less than a plumber and i know both if you need one of either:D

Sparkpea

check the grout on your tiles is not cracked anywhere because water can easily get into that and behind your tiles and leak down.

jj build

take the spray head of the hose and direct it at the trap only and have someone check for a drip down stairs this way u will know if its the trap or not

danjo-xx

Joey the lips wrote: »

Look on the brightside... A plasterer will cost you less than a plumber and i know both if you need one of either:D

It's amazing what mods can get away with here:(

stop spamming threads danjo

byte

I had a similar problem with a shower, but it turned out to be the sealing strip at the bottom of the tiles was no longer sealing against water (even though there was a lot of silicone behind it).

Joey the lips

danjo-xx wrote: »

It's amazing what mods can get away with here:(

stop spamming threads danjo

Oh sorry if thats how its percieved. It was not ment that way. Its all explained in my signature.

danjo-xx

Joey the lips wrote: »

Oh sorry if thats how its percieved. It was not ment that way. Its all explained in my signature.

nah your grand just felt like having a little lighter moment:P

indie armada

if you can locate the exacxt or near enough positon of the trap in relation to the ceiling below, you only need a 100mm holesaw to access it from below. this wil not require a plasterer, just put the circular piece back in place using a brace, fill the edges and sand. did this recently for a friend of a friend and on a difficulty scale it was about a 2/10

ps if tryin to find the leak by soaking various areas, drill likkle holes in the ceiling, 2mm bit will do. this allows the water to come out easier speeding up the process.

dfbemt

jj build wrote: »

take the spray head of the hose and direct it at the trap only and have someone check for a drip down stairs this way u will know if its the trap or not

It's not the trap !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh. I tried this the other night and not a mark on the ceiling.

I'm gonna silicone the whole thing this w/end including where the tile seal strip meets the shower tray just in case this has given up.

If that doesn't work............. :mad:

Buford T Justice

To be fair, silicone might work for you but it'll fail after a short while. It's not a lo g term solution.

vicwatson

If I may be so bold as to jump into this thread...

After seeing a problem in the ceiling downstairs I knew exactly what it was - by trial and error I think I located the area of the shower that was leaking (the corner), after lifting the plastic "beading" where the tiles meet the tray and let it dry for a few days and pumping silicone into it, and siliconed along the corner where the tiles meet the edge of the shower enclosure I thought I had it done but NOOOOOOO, grrrr. It's as bad as ever.

Had to take out more of the ceiling to search for the leak but all I can find is the following -

There is marine ply on the floor upstairs and the water is coming down at the points where a)there is a drill hole for electric cable and b) where the builders have drilled a hole for the waste to fit.

I've seemingly done all I can IN THE SHOWER but yet it's still leaking and leaking heavy but yet looking really closely I can't see any gaps/potential leaking spots in the shower.

Should I pull out all the silicone again and start again or am I wasting my time?

Failing that who is the "proper" person who does this work - a plumber, a plasterer, a carpenter?

Thanks for all/any help.

Sparkpea

Proper person is a plumber, theres no harm in sealing it again, make sure its completely dry before resealing. Use a hairdrier to dry it if you need to. Maybe use tech7 or ct1 as they are a stronger bond and can be used in water.

Failing that it could be the waste, tiles, tray moved or doors. Check seals on doors as well as silicone around door panels.

vicwatson

Thanks Sparkpea,

Will I get ct1 in a regular hardware store?

In fairness I understand It could be a multitude of things. I have access to the underside of the waste as I've taken down part of the ceiling and there is no water leaking around the under part of it anyway, I had aimed the shower head at this particular corner to start a trial and error session and it defintely seems the problem is stemming from that corner, hence me sealing the bejaysus out of it and I'm still having the damn problem - there is nothing obvious as to the leak on close, very close, inspection!

Sparkpea

you should be able to get ct1 from a regular hardware store. you will soon no if its the proper gear as its about 3 times more expensive than a regular tube of silicone.

its trial and error and if it doesn't work resealing then its probably a strip out job, doors off, tray out and put back in possibly with classi sealing and retiling 1 or 2 rows of tiles. are the tiles boast? if you tap them with your knuckles so they sound hollow or solid? are they on a dry plasterboard wall or on marine plywood or a solid brick wall?

vicwatson

are the tiles boast? if you tap them with your knuckles so they sound hollow or solid? are they on a dry plasterboard wall or on marine plywood or a solid brick wall?

Tiles sound ok, they are those little mosaic ones, the shower was "tanked" well, that's what we were told, infact I think what happened was that this grey rubber type solution was painted onto the dry plasterboard and then tiled on top of that, I wont say it was tanked in the traditional sense in that the whole area outside the shower was made watertight as it wasn't, tiler painted that stuff on only down as far as the top of the tray before tiling. Haven't a clue of the name of the stuff he painted on, he told me he wouldn't tile onto a dry plasterboard wall without putting this waterproof stuff on first.

Sparkpea

yeah thats tanking so tiles etc. should be ok

2 stroke

Have you had any trouble with rodents, I've seen a couple of cases where they ate into the waste pipe.

vicwatson

Have you had any trouble with rodents, I've seen a couple of cases where they ate into the waste pipe.

No trouble in that dept.

I can see the waste as I've removed part of the ceiling, there is no leaks there.

yeah thats tanking so tiles etc. should be ok

Next step I think - strip back all the silicone in place, dry it out and try using either of the two silicones recommended ????

Sparkpea

I think so, is it definitely only leaking when the shower is used? e.g. tiles/sealing/waste rather than the pipe(s) going to the shower maybe leaking?

If you're sure its only when the shower is used then I can't see how it can be anything else apart from sealing. Tbh if its tanked correctly it shouldnt even be the sealing between the tray and tiles, it must be the sealing around the doors. Take the shower head off and run the water around the door profiles where they meet the tiles and also where the base of the doors meet the tray, try and pinpoint the leak like that first before sealing.

zu

Always pay the extra for up stands when fitting a shower tray especially upstairs. Using silicone is like kicking the can down the road. You need to rip out the shower and start afresh. Even if you stop water coming through ceiling, it's likely that a weep will continue causing wet rot and structural failure in the medium to long term.

Buford T Justice

Was the floor tanked?

Sounds like its getting down either via the seal between the tiles and tray in the shower, or getting out the door and down the tiles outside the shower and running over the floor finding a way out.

Check the bottom corners of the shower tray where the door meets it. Common spots for water to leak out there.

Daibheid

I learned the hard way after getting a tiler in to redo a leaking shower that there's tanking and there's tanking. If your tiler didn't run the tanking down onto the tray itself and use a reinforcing strip to bridge onto the tray that's a likely source of your trouble.

Unfortunately after years of trying different sealants and seals and even that professional repair I had to take the tray out and replace it with one with upstands, tank it properly and retile.

Do satisfy yourself 100% it is not a leaking door or waste trap first or even a leak from a nearby handbasin or similar running along pipes near the shower first but if it is the tray joint you should put in a fix that you know will last. IF you don't the worst type of leak is the slow weep that won't drop your ceiling but will quietly rot your floor and stud wall leaving a near impossible mess to fix.