Why do Merc dealers hide the year on all the 'Star Select' cars?

coylemj

Walked past Grange Motors in Deansgrange recently, nice line of 2nd hand Mercs (mainly C and E) outside the main showroom but every one of them has the numberplate covered with a generic 'Star Select' plate and the spec. sheet stuck to the passenger sun visor has no mention of the year. The spec. sheet has all the essential details - model, leather, auto, mileage etc. and the asking price but it's missing the detail that has the biggest effect on the price - the year the car was registered!

How are you supposed to judge if the price is good if they deliberately hide the year? I know you can walk in and ask but if there's six C180s outside and you can't tell which one is keenly priced relative to the others, would you be bothered going in and asking?

Big Nasty

Fair play to them!

It doesn't matter a fcuk what year it is - once the mileage is to your liking, the spec is to your liking and the service history is all there that's all that counts.

(Obviously we're talking about models with 1-2 years difference between them here)

mickdw

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fair play to them!

It doesn't matter a fcuk what year it is - once the mileage is to your liking, the spec is to your liking and the service history is all there that's all that counts.

(Obviously we're talking about models with 1-2 years difference between them here)

Thats just silly. So you would buy a car and decide on what you would pay without knowing if the car was an 08 or a 07 for example?

Big Nasty

mickdw wrote: »

Thats just silly. So you would buy a car and decide on what you would pay without knowing if the car was an 08 or a 07 for example?

I would yeah, just as they did pre -'87!:p

biko

Some people just stare at two things, year and county.
Some look at mileage, engine condition, rust, trim, service history and a million other little things.

mickdw

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I would yeah, just as they did pre -'87!:p

I know where you are coming from saying the condition/mileage etc should be the main factors but such a decision could be a costly one as the system now is far different than what it was in 1987. For one thing, on some cars the tax rate changes from 1600 for a 07 to 600 for an 08 and other cars going the opposite direction. It is foolish to suggest that this is not relevant. This tax difference can affect the price by many thousands. Silly as that may be,

coylemj

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fair play to them!

It doesn't matter a fcuk what year it is - once the mileage is to your liking, the spec is to your liking and the service history is all there that's all that counts.

Sorry but the year does matter. For starters it's the first thing a dealer will ask you when you're offering a trade-in so I find it strange that of all the details of a car which affect the price it's the one thing they're concealing.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fair play to them!
(Obviously we're talking about models with 1-2 years difference between them here)

'Obviously'? How do you come to that conclusion? The current C-Class (W204) was first shipped in 2007, that means that when you're looking at a secondhand model it could be 2007, 2008, 2009 or 2010 - big difference between 2007 and 2010 - unless you think otherwise.

Big Nasty

mickdw wrote: »

I know where you are coming from saying the condition/mileage etc should be the main factors but such a decision could be a costly one as the system now is far different than what it was in 1987. For one thing, on some cars the tax rate changes from 1600 for a 07 to 600 for an 08 and other cars going the opposite direction. It is foolish to suggest that this is not relevant. This tax difference can affect the price by many thousands. Silly as that may be,

Dead right on cars of that era but you know well where I'm coming from!

coylemj

biko wrote: »

Some people just stare at two things, year and county.
Some look at mileage, engine condition, rust, trim, service history and a million other little things.

Sorry, everyone looks at the year, no single item has as big a bearing on the price as the year. I know there's a price overlap between two cars of different years so that a 2008 C180 could easily be worth more than one from 2009 but once they're in the ballpark in terms of spec and mileage the year is the biggest factor which determines the price.

Big Nasty

coylemj wrote: »

'Obviously'? How do you come to that conclusion? The current C-Class (W204) was first shipped in 2007, that means that when you're looking at a secondhand model it could be 2007, 2008, 2009 or 2010 - big difference between 2007 and 2010 - unless you think otherwise.

'Obviously' I would be concerned with the difference between the extremes. Most models have a 6-8 year shelf life and there is no way I would pay the same money for a '96 E38 as opposed to a '01 model, however if I was looking at two cars with 1-2 years age diff between them I would pick an older, lower mileage, high spec car as opposed to a newer, higher mileage, paddy spec car at the same price. I.e: age ain't all!:p

OldmanMondeo

Also by looking at the year, you would know how much, if any, the original warranty is left or how far out this warranty is.

Doyler92

As far as I'm concerned if I'm paying that much money for something I want to know everything about it.

Discodog

It's a scam - just like the sticker over the mileage scam. And before someone comments about my lack of knowledge, I spent several years as a Sales Manager for a Mercedes dealership !.

Go into the dealership, insist of speaking to the DP or Sales Manager & point out that you won't be buying from them.

mickdw

Discodog wrote: »

It's a scam - just like the sticker over the mileage scam. And before someone comments about my lack of knowledge, I spent several years as a Sales Manager for a Mercedes dealership !.

Go into the dealership, insist of speaking to the DP or Sales Manager & point out that you won't be buying from them.

Surely all you need to do is walk in and ask about the cars you are interested in.

scoobymunster

Yes, but if your like me you'll want to be able to wander around the forecourt deciding yourself what your interested in without the sales assistant badgering ya.

Discodog

mickdw wrote: »

Surely all you need to do is walk in and ask about the cars you are interested in.

Or you will decide that if the dealer can't be totally open with you then they aren't worth dealing with. What else are they going to try & hide from you ?. It's the kind of tactic worthy of Del Boy & not a main dealer. It's incredibly unprofessional.

If ever it feels like a salesman is badgering you then he needs to get a new job so walk away.

mickdw

I cannot see how its a tactic to try to conceal the registration date for buyers, that is just silly. Id say its more a mercedes marketing idea to portray some sense of the used mercedes stock (star select) being untroubled by such things as age. It probably an attempt to show that they are as new (with star select plate) by making no reference to anything as crude as an age plate.

Discodog

mickdw wrote: »

I cannot see how its a tactic to try to conceal the registration date for buyers, that is just silly. Id say its more a mercedes marketing idea to portray some sense of the used mercedes stock (star select) being untroubled by such things as age. It probably an attempt to show that they are as new (with star select plate) by making no reference to anything as crude as an age plate.

I bet that the marketing manual uses similar terminology. Mercedes marketing in the UK was always about 10 years behind everyone one else. I came from BMW & the whole of Daimler Benz felt old fashioned. You don't instil trust by concealing. Yes some people will decide to find out the age but others will walk away. Especially in today's market you do not want to alienate anyone.

The facts are that many car salesmen & especially Mercedes salesmen have never had to sell. They weren't around or they have forgotten times before the tiger. I was approached to do a marketing exercise in 2002. I mystery shopped many dealers & not one tried to sell me a car.

By the way Star Select appears to be an Ireland only scheme. I suspect that Mercedes corporate would not be keen on dealers not displaying the age.

Anan1

MCMLXXV wrote: »

however if I was looking at two cars with 1-2 years age diff between them I would pick an older, lower mileage, high spec car as opposed to a newer, higher mileage, paddy spec car at the same price. I.e: age ain't all!:p

You might, but others won't. This fact alone makes age relevant. It's a bit like the whole Dublin vs country plates thing - I couldn't care less personally, but i'd still pay a less for a fresh S-Class with DL plates on it. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean that it magically disappears.

riccardo

Most prestige and luxury dealers are instructed from manufacturers to sell their approved usd cars under their rules.
If disco dog worked at a BMW dealership he would be aware of their AUC program.
So the dealer does not have any choice. I believe that year however should be on the display board.

So is isnt a scam, its not a underhanded..its Mercedes looking to have their used cars dislayed in a consistant and thorough fashion.

Discodog

But it does not appear to be Mercedes policy & seems to be unique to Ireland. Of course the dealers have a choice. We often disagreed with BMW policy & often got it changed. If I were considering a Star Select car I would contact Mercedes Benz Ireland & ask if it was their policy to conceal information. If so then I would tell them that I am buying somewhere else.
Irish buyers put up with far too much crap & rip off.

Anan1

riccardo wrote: »

Most prestige and luxury dealers are instructed from manufacturers to sell their approved usd cars under their rules.
If disco dog worked at a BMW dealership he would be aware of their AUC program.
So the dealer does not have any choice. I believe that year however should be on the display board.

So is isnt a scam, its not a underhanded..its Mercedes looking to have their used cars dislayed in a consistant and thorough fashion.

Regardless of who sanctions it, the deliberate concealment of relevant information from potential buyers is underhanded.

Discodog

Yes but this is Ireland so no one will complain to MB corporate. Like everything else we get the dealers that we deserve. We will know if the recession ever really affects the dealers when their servicing costs fall & they show signs of needing our business - don't hold your breath.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

Yes but this is Ireland so no one will complain to MB corporate. Like everything else we get the dealers that we deserve. We will know if the recession ever really affects the dealers when their servicing costs fall & they show signs of needing our business - don't hold your breath.

I have to admit, the motor trade in Ireland remains a bit of a mystery to me. Main dealerships that have been around since the fifties and before go under, entire workforces lose their jobs, and yet standards of customer service remain almost uniformly abysmal. I had assumed that the recession would sort the wheat from the chaff, but I sometimes wonder is there much wheat there at all?

Owen

The BMW AUC (Or BPS as it's known now) system covered the plate, but did two additional things. They have a windscreen price hangar which also includes the year, model and mileage - and on one of the passenger windows, they have an A4 sheet which shows the full spec, warranty and selection of photographs.

Discodog

Anan1 wrote: »

I have to admit, the motor trade in Ireland remains a bit of a mystery to me. Main dealerships that have been around since the fifties and before go under, entire workforces lose their jobs, and yet standards of customer service remain almost uniformly abysmal. I had assumed that the recession would sort the wheat from the chaff, but I sometimes wonder is there much wheat there at all?

I think that it is simply because you were a made man if you got the Irish franchise or a prime dealership. The demand became huge with everyone wanting to out do their neighbour. The imposition of VRT reinforced the cartel & got rid of any competition.

When I was selling in England an outfit set up a huge dealership that looked like genuine MB. There were personally importing cars & because we wouldn't discount, they offered big savings. This competition forced English dealers to improve.

Many Irish distributors/dealers have only really known good times. They have no idea how to sell in a recession - to get off their asses, out of the showroom & drum up business. Some showed their financial inability by investing in property & that has crashed their empires.

MSL have a huge ad in the Sunday Times for a Sales Manager. Loads of ridiculous "business speak" in the requirements like "be an agile self-directing task juggler" (that alone would put me off applying). There is no mention of the key requirement to be able to generate business in a recession.

Also consumers are finally getting wise. Today I was talking to a man who owns a transport business. For years he has bought his tyres from "a friend" because he could trust him to give a good deal. He has now realised that his "friend" has been ripping him off for years.

Benny Cake

Its ridiculous to suggest the year doesn't matter... For one thing, there's a significant tax difference between a 07 & 08 diesel of the same model.....

Discodog

I have emailed Mercedes Ireland & Mercedes AG - I will post here if either reply.

Mr.Boots

The only reason i can think of is to get the punter through the door so the sales team can work their "magic"

Ali Babba

What I find incredible is how people are still buying Mercedes cars at all? They haven't made a decent car since the 126 series S-class! The modern ones are totally over-rated and over priced. The new E class looks like something Kia turned out in the 1990's.

Ali Babba

Mr.Boots wrote: »

The only reason i can think of is to get the punter through the door so the sales team can work their "magic"

"Magic"? I always found their sales team aloof, rude and arrogant in most cases.

Mr.Boots

Ali Babba wrote: »

"Magic"? I always found their sales team aloof, rude and arrogant in most cases.

My sarcasim is lost......

-Chris-

Jesus, what a non-thread. Discodog, calling for conspiracy and complaining to the distributor.


http://mercedes.grangemotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search

I've had a look at the Mercs they have in stock, and unless I missed some, I only see one that has front and rear number plates covered.

The rest have a Star Select number plate on the front (for display reasons obviously) and the "normal" number plate on the back.

If you can't be bothered walking as far as the boot to see what the age is of the car you're considering spending €X0,000 on, then I don't know what to say to you... :rolleyes:

Discodog

-Chris- wrote: »

Jesus, what a non-thread. Discodog, calling for conspiracy and complaining to the distributor.

Nearly as bad as people not reading my posts - I emailed as in for clarification not as a complaint.

So we need to have a little hunt to discover the age - really inspires confidence in the dealer

Maybe it's a promotion - you discover the age & we will give you a discount !

Discodog

Ali Babba wrote: »

"Magic"? I always found their sales team aloof, rude and arrogant in most cases.

BMW did a survey when they took over from the UK Concessionaires & were horrified to hear that this was one of the main reasons why people didn't come back. They mystery shopped & focussed on making some of the shoppers look unlike perceived BMW customers.

It was great for me because I got loads of business from customers that the other salesmen had deemed not worthy of bothering with.

-Chris-

Discodog wrote: »

Nearly as bad as people not reading my posts - I emailed as in for clarification not as a complaint.

So we need to have a little hunt to discover the age - really inspires confidence in the dealer

Maybe it's a promotion - you discover the age & we will give you a discount !

A little hunt??? It's on the bloody boot, in the conventional place for all registration plates. :P:D




As for:

Discodog wrote: »

It's a scam - just like the sticker over the mileage scam.

Discodog wrote: »

What else are they going to try & hide from you ?. It's the kind of tactic worthy of Del Boy & not a main dealer. It's incredibly unprofessional.

Discodog wrote: »

You don't instil trust by concealing. Yes some people will decide to find out the age but others will walk away.

I suspect that Mercedes corporate would not be keen on dealers not displaying the age.

Discodog wrote: »

If I were considering a Star Select car I would contact Mercedes Benz Ireland & ask if it was their policy to conceal information.

Seriously, I don't think I could over-emphasise this - it's on the boot.

Mr.Boots

-Chris- wrote: »

A little hunt??? It's on the bloody boot, in the conventional place for all registration plates. :P:D




As for:






Seriously, I don't think I could over-emphasise this - it's on the boot.

Discodog

Maybe they put them back on the boot after reading this

But whatever you say it is still a bit daft to use it as a technique to make people look at the car. The Star Select sign could easily go somewhere else.
I doubt if the posters here are paranoid but it is seen as negative by some. I wouldn't want to alienate any potential customer.

I would invite anyone who wants to have a bit of fun, in the interests of research, to visit your local MB dealer. Borrow a wreck, unless you already own one, & dress down (seriously down). See how the salesman reacts & maybe film it on your mobi - could make a great youtube clip !.

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

The Star Select sign could easily go somewhere else.

If you managed a Dealership you should know well the reason it goes there. The Plate is usually one of the first points of recognition on any car, so a consumer looking there seeing the Star Select plate is instantly informed that the car has been through the xxx point test.

Discodog

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If you managed a Dealership you should know well the reason it goes there. The Plate is usually one of the first points of recognition on any car, so a consumer looking there seeing the Star Select plate is instantly informed that the car has been through the xxx point test.

The plate is the first point of view because people want to know the age so why stop them or make it more difficult ?. Warranty signs used to go on the windscreen or roof until BMW introduced pylons. The problem with a "select" scheme is it suggests that non select cars are no good. Every used car in the dealership should be "select".

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

The plate is the first point of view because people want to know the age so why stop them or make it more difficult ?

It doesn't make it any more difficult at all. The BMW AUC/BPS system actually makes it more transparent. The price hangar inside the windscreen contains the Price, year, mileage, and model. That's far more information than you'll get from any numberplate.

Warranty signs used to go on the windscreen or roof until BMW introduced pylons.

Pylons? In my 7 years managing with BMW/MINI, we didn't use Pylons. We used Pylons for new cars in the showroom, but any used vehicle was always displayed as per above - numberplate hidden, but the information communicated clearly using price hangars and specificaiton sheets all clearly legible and visible on used vehicles.

The problem with a "select" scheme is it suggests that non select cars are no good. Every used car in the dealership should be "select".

Not at all, and it's a silly assumption from you to label them as such. 'Approved' cars get a warranty direct from the manufacturer and a year's breakdown assistance. We used to put the cars which wouldn't be eligible for the system though the same checks, they'd get a one year warranty from the Dealership instead of a European wide warranty, and no breakdown assistance - but as most people have that on their Insurance these days, it was no deal breaker. The reason cars weren't eligible, is that they either exceeded the mileage, or age clause - and we always pointed that out to people who realised quickly enough that once the same checks had been applied, that they were still getting a vehicle which was something we could stand over.

Discodog

PaintDoctor wrote: »

It doesn't make it any more difficult at all. The BMW AUC/BPS system actually makes it more transparent. The price hangar inside the windscreen contains the Price, year, mileage, and model. That's far more information than you'll get from any numberplate.

The thread is about Merc dealers not BMW.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The reason cars weren't eligible, is that they either exceeded the mileage, or age clause - and we always pointed that out to people who realised quickly enough that once the same checks had been applied, that they were still getting a vehicle which was something we could stand over.

In my day we only sold used cars that were covered by the manufacturer - we would trade out the older/high mileage cars.

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

The thread is about Merc dealers not BMW.

Lol, you're the one talking about BMW!

Discodog

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Lol, you're the one talking about BMW!

Funnily enough even then most Merc dealers would sell lots of a "non approved" used cars. I moved from BMW to Merc & it was like going back ten years. The first dealer that I visited had a Peugeot sitting next to an E class !. No wonder Merc took over many dealers.

kippy

Might have been said already but it is possible these cars are imports - yet to be transferred over.
I've seen a dealer or three in the Galway area do this with cars of late - stick a generic plate over the Northern/English one. Its usually easy enough to see what is on the plates underneath however.

VolvoMan

It's nothing new for dealers to have signs covering the number plates on used stock. Nearly all of them do it these days, including used car dealers.

riccardo

All relevant information should be attached to the car on an A4 spec sheet on a display board.

The point of the star select program is that the standards that are set for the sale, stocking and display of the used Mercedes Benz cars are consistant and very high.

Mercedes dealers will be star select audited 3 times a year. All relevant files include preparation invoices, valting checklist, Service check list etc Hpi check must also accompany the car.

This keeps the standards of used car display and preparation very high and above all consistant throughout Mercedes dealers in the ROI.

Failure to adhere to these standards is very high with penaltys of whatever volume bonuses a dealer may make.

Again the real winner is the customer, the standards are so high that it should make a person think twice about buying a used Mercedes Benz anywhere else other than in a Mercedes dealership.

coylemj

-Chris- wrote: »

Jesus, what a non-thread. Discodog, calling for conspiracy and complaining to the distributor.


http://mercedes.grangemotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search

I've had a look at the Mercs they have in stock, and unless I missed some, I only see one that has front and rear number plates covered.

The rest have a Star Select number plate on the front (for display reasons obviously) and the "normal" number plate on the back.

If you can't be bothered walking as far as the boot to see what the age is of the car you're considering spending €X0,000 on, then I don't know what to say to you... :rolleyes:

I'm the OP on this thread, did you visit Grange Motors Mercedes showroom in person or are you basing your response on looking at their website?

All of the secondhand Mercs parked outside the showroom have the front and rear number plates covered with 'Star Select' plates, I know because I've looked at all of them. And as I pointed out in my original post, the spec. sheet hanging on the passenger visor also makes no mention of the year.

-Chris-

I'll pop over tomorrow if you wish. At the moment I'm basing my info on the photos they took of the car and posted online.

Discodog

riccardo wrote: »

Again the real winner is the customer, the standards are so high that it should make a person think twice about buying a used Mercedes Benz anywhere else other than in a Mercedes dealership.

Thanks for the advert .

Alternatively one could buy privately or from the North, get just as nice a car, & save a fortune.

opinion guy

OK as a joe punter - bought a car last eyar. tHe attitude of every single dealer in the south was APPALLING. They all treated me like I was a moron, regardless of brand. THe number of times they lied to my face like I was friggin mentally deficient and wouldn't notice was shocking. Honestly I only came across ONE dealer who I felt was honest. And for the record I would find slappign a big sticker on the number plate dishonest. Because by the time I've walked over to the car, looked at the front, looked at the sticker and gone to the back and finally discovered the year, I would have wasted my time looking once, twice and three times. I would feel deceived and I would feel like I had my time wasted. If every car on the lot was the same I would become VERY pissed off very quickly and leave.

In the end I went up North. Dealers were professional, curteous, honest and actually listened to what I wanted and worked with me to get it instead of trying to talk me into liking whatever approximation they happened to have on the forecourt and were desperate to shift.

To those in the industry arguing with discodog - Discodog is 1000% correct and you actually need to listen to him for the betterment of your industry.

In the end I bought up North. Yes I saved money, but that wasn't the primary reason. In the end I went up North because I didn't feel I could trust any of the dealers down south. The extra year of warranty ay have had something to do with it too.