customs checkpoint and driving a n.i reg car

trixyben

i had a loan o a mates car its a n.i. reg mondeo while mine is being repaired, was stopped at a custom checkpoint who are going to Fine me For driving a car not reg in the state and it is liable For vrt etc, i explained i only had the car For 3 days while mine was being repaired and what sense did it make what he was saying were is the logic where the car isnt mine, i have loan o the car For 3 days its taxed, tested and im insured to drive it surly he has to be worng...he took my number and said he would call to meet me so i could pay the Fine.. this was a year ago!!!! got a call today From him saying he wants to meet so i can pay Fine!!!

is he chancing him arm here? was i in the wrong? should i have to pay him anything?

any advise here would be great cheers

squod

trixyben wrote: »

got a call today From him saying he wants to meet so i can pay Fine!!!

is he chancing him arm here?

A call? What's he gonna do next, text you a summons. Get real.

questionmark?

Ah right :rolleyes: must have being a slow day at the office for him!

corktina

im afraid you were in the wrong as the only one entitled to drive a NI reg car in the republic is the owner resident in NI. A RoI resident is not permitted to drive it. ( Id not answer any more calls for a bit if I was you! )

johnos1984

Tell him to put it in writing

questionmark?

corktina wrote: »

im afraid you were in the wrong as the only one entitled to drive a NI reg car in the republic is the owner resident in NI. A RoI resident is not permitted to drive it. ( Id not answer any more calls for a bit if I was you! )

What if you hired a NI reg car from a rental company in the North and you were a rep. of Ire citizen or a German etc...

Wolverine_1999

Sounds like a chancer to say the least.. did you have 3rd party extension on your policy in Ireland? Check to see does it cover non Irish reg'd cars.

If not, your friend could more than likely have an extension on his UK policy to cover uninsured drivers. If he brings it any further, show him one of those documents and tell him to feck off

Esel

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

Sounds like a chancer to say the least.. did you have 3rd party extension on your policy in Ireland? Check to see does it cover non Irish reg'd cars.

If not, your friend could more than likely have an extension on his UK policy to cover uninsured drivers. If he brings it any further, show him one of those documents and tell him to feck off

Insurance is not the issue.....

kincaid

a friend was told a guy in cavan also fined €1400 for driving a UK reg car, no warning nothing..and it was actually impounded, he would not get out of the car to let them have it so they called the garda.
so now he has to pay the vrt and the fine as well... he only took it to the shop a mile down the road..
they also checked it for illegal diesel but was ok,if it had illegal that would be another €2500,

trixyben

if i ignore the calls he will land out at the house im sure...he is fineing me €500! how can a year go by and nothing heard then a call to say he wants his payment, should i go to a solicitor would it be worth it?

i feel that he is chancing his arm looking for the money if it was as he says he should have been on my back from day 1 looking for the money

slimjimmc

kincaid wrote: »

a friend was told a guy in cavan also fined €1400 for driving a UK reg car, no warning nothing..and it was actually impounded, he would not get out of the car to let them have it so they called the garda.
so now he has to pay the vrt and the fine as well... he only took it to the shop a mile down the road..
they also checked it for illegal diesel but was ok,if it had illegal that would be another €2500,

Ah yeah this brings back memories. The old "I was only going down the road" excuse that has been used for generations by people who were stopped for no tax, no insurance, exhaust hanging off, only 3 wheels, etc, etc, etc. Customs don't do warnings most of the time so you shouldn't expect one.

trixyben wrote: »

if i ignore the calls he will land out at the house im sure...he is fineing me €500! how can a year go by and nothing heard then a call to say he wants his payment, should i go to a solicitor would it be worth it?

i feel that he is chancing his arm looking for the money if it was as he says he should have been on my back from day 1 looking for the money

I think that under the Statute of Limitations Act 1957 there is no expiry on pretty much anything related to Customs so they could come after you in 10 years if they wanted, afaik.

Henry Ford III

trixyben wrote: »

if i ignore the calls he will land out at the house im sure...he is fineing me €500! how can a year go by and nothing heard then a call to say he wants his payment, should i go to a solicitor would it be worth it?

i feel that he is chancing his arm looking for the money if it was as he says he should have been on my back from day 1 looking for the money

Unlikely he'll just go away, and a solicitor probably won't help either.

Perhaps it was you who were chancing your arm driving the N.I. car?

Henry Ford III

questionmark? wrote: »

What if you hired a NI reg car from a rental company in the North and you were a rep. of Ire citizen or a German etc...

You could just show them the rental agreement. No issue.

Seth Brundle

questionmark? wrote: »

What if you hired a NI reg car from a rental company in the North and you were a rep. of Ire citizen or a German etc...

I'm quite sure that VRT must have been paid on any car driven in the RoI by an RoI citizen.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You could just show them the rental agreement. No issue.

However, I presume if you had the receipt and a good explanation, they would probably turn a blind eye.

trixyben

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unlikely he'll just go away, and a solicitor probably won't help either.

Perhaps it was you who were chancing your arm driving the N.I. car?

as i said i had the car for 3 days and was stopped on the 3rd day, i did tell the custom officer the car was being returned that evening as i had a lend of the car and this could all be confirmed with the owner of the car...sure what crime did i commit it would be a different storey if the car was reg to me and i was bluffing it didnt have tax or text was full of green (which he did check for) etc all was above board i was going to work...funny enough there was cars turning on the road to turn away from the checkpoint and they didnt even bother going after them...

slimjimmc

kbannon wrote: »

I'm quite sure that VRT must have been paid on any car driven in the RoI by an RoI citizen.

However, I presume if you had the receipt and a good explanation, they would probably turn a blind eye.

You don't have to be a citizen to fall foul, it's based entirely on residency.

An Irish citizen born and bred abroad, or resident abroad can drive a foreign reg car (with restrictions), but a foreign citizen resident here may not.

I know this link is about VRT but it answers many of the questions on driving foreign cars here.
http://www.vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=23

the culture of deference

Last time I rented a car in dublin airport it had an english reg

slimjimmc

trixyben wrote: »

as i said i had the car for 3 days and was stopped on the 3rd day, i did tell the custom officer the car was being returned that evening as i had a lend of the car and this could all be confirmed with the owner of the car...sure what crime did i commit it would be a different storey if the car was reg to me and i was bluffing it didnt have tax or text was full of green (which he did check for) etc all was above board i was going to work...funny enough there was cars turning on the road to turn away from the checkpoint and they didnt even bother going after them...

You broke the law which bans Irish residents from driving a foreign car in this State at any time except under certain clearly defined circumstances. Getting a lend of your mates car is not one of those circumstances.

Agreed it's not the crime of the century but it's still a crime and you are being brought to book. Your best chance now is to try to mitigate the fine as much as possible. If this guy persists I suggest you meet face to face and plead your case (I once heard a rumour that some Custom officials are still human ).

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

im afraid you were in the wrong as the only one entitled to drive a NI reg car in the republic is the owner resident in NI.

That's no true.
Anyone can drive NI registered car in ROI except from ROI residents.
Obviously the car has to be tested and insured. And the driver (if the car is not his, has to have a permission from the owner).
But there's nothing wrong with f.e. French resident driving NI car in ROI.

RoI resident is not permitted to drive it. ( Id not answer any more calls for a bit if I was you! )

That is correct.

kildare.17hmr

i wouldnt be handin any money over without a proper fine in writing thatg can be paid at the post office or that. iv never heard of fines being dished out over the phone and collected in person!

martin46585

trixyben wrote: »

i had a loan o a mates car its a n.i. reg mondeo while mine is being repaired, was stopped at a custom checkpoint who are going to Fine me For driving a car not reg in the state and it is liable For vrt etc, i explained i only had the car For 3 days while mine was being repaired and what sense did it make what he was saying were is the logic where the car isnt mine, i have loan o the car For 3 days its taxed, tested and im insured to drive it surly he has to be worng...he took my number and said he would call to meet me so i could pay the Fine.. this was a year ago!!!! got a call today From him saying he wants to meet so i can pay Fine!!!

is he chancing him arm here? was i in the wrong? should i have to pay him anything?

any advise here would be great cheers

usually the fine is imposed at the time that the car is impounded , and released when the fine is paid, so i would not be paying a fine, times are tight.....for everybody even the odd chancer:cool:

Seth Brundle

IIRC there was a thread exactly the same as this maybe two years ago. I can't recall how that one panned out though.

Dali Farmer

I imported a car from NI and drove it here on the Northern plates for 12months when I got stopped by customs. I had to pay a €200 on the spot fine (had to go to the ATM and return with the money), or they were going to lift the car. Got a notice to re-reg within 7days and a receipt and was told the car would be seized the next time I was stopped. Your guy sounds a bit dodge!

mickdw

kbannon wrote: »

IIRC there was a thread exactly the same as this maybe two years ago. I can't recall how that one panned out though.

Yes I remember that too. It seemed very odd as the customs guy wanted to meet and take cash in person and I dont recall any paperwork whatsoever being produced either.

trixyben

mickdw wrote: »

Yes I remember that too. It seemed very odd as the customs guy wanted to meet and take cash in person and I dont recall any paperwork whatsoever being produced either.

so should i ask for paperwork next time he calls? what would be the outcome if i refused to pay due to there being no paperwork

mfceiling

Tell him to meet you at your solicitors office and to have all his papework with him.
Do not let him meet you in a car park or garage or somewhere non specific.
Basically if he is telling the truth this will not be an issue for him but if he is chancing his arm then.....

mickdw

trixyben wrote: »

so should i ask for paperwork next time he calls? what would be the outcome if i refused to pay due to there being no paperwork

If its legit, he will have no issue with sending you a proper invoice/fine. I also assume that you should be then allowed to take that to the revenue office and pay it there with the reference number of the fine or whatever. It surely cannot be proper if he just meets you and takes cash off you then disappears.

Esel

slimjimmc wrote: »

I know this link is about VRT but it answers many of the questions on driving foreign cars here.
http://www.vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=23

From your link: "A State resident may not drive the vehicle."

slimjimmc

Esel wrote: »

From your link: "A State resident may not drive the vehicle."

Exactly!

The OP is a resident of Co. Louth.

corktina

and Louth is in a state like the rest of the country.:D

holuc

When he first pulled you over he should have provided you with some sort of paperwork to say you have been fined x amount or you should have received something in the post? He cant surely turn around a year later and say oh btw remember we pulled u last yr i want that money now! Tell him to provide paperwork and proof if he cant tell him where to go!!

Seth Brundle

trixyben wrote: »

so should i ask for paperwork next time he calls? what would be the outcome if i refused to pay due to there being no paperwork

If they are reluctant to provide any form of paperwork then do you really need to ask?

dr.fuzzenstein

slimjimmc wrote: »

You broke the law which bans Irish residents from driving a foreign car in this State at any time except under certain clearly defined circumstances..

Interesting law that, never heard of it, source please?
You can bring a foreign car in and drive it for a few months before having to register it.
The customs officer is being tick and ignorant, so best ignore him. If that doesn't work, complain him.
Also, if the car is back in NI, what exactly is the OP going to pay VRT on?
Irish customs so often try it on, the problem is that once the officer says something, no matter how preposterous, he cannot back down, most of these people are insecure bullies, so going over their head is the only way, proper complaints channels, ombudsman, etc...
The rule is always: Never argue with the official, he cannot back down, no matter how wrong he is, complain via the proper channels.

Reg'stoy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

customs............. most of these people are insecure bullies.........

Way to overgeneralise there, I suppose I could say that all sewage treatment workers talk smell of sh*te but then I've never met you.

Piri

This is against EU law
There is no such a thing that Irish resident We are all EU resident so you can drive any EU reg car in EU if you have insurance.

Jimmy Bottlehead

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You can bring a foreign car in and drive it for a few months before having to register it.

I was under the impression that you had 30 days from the date of import within which to present the car for inspection and registration?

If not, then one could just bring in an import, use it for a few months and then pay up the VRT when it suits a few months later.

coylemj

If he's phoning you so long after the event and is arranging to 'meet' so you can pay the fine it stinks to high heaven. I've never encountered this situation personally but if that period of time has elapsed I would expect to get a letter from the local excise office saying that they had determined that I should pay a fine of xxx which I could appeal and that if I didn't want to appeal I needed to present the payment at any one of a list of excise offices around the country.

Getting a phone call from the individual saying that he wants to meet face to face to collect the 'fine' has a serious whiff about it.

Ask him to show you a paper record of the determination of the fine, make sure he is still in the Customs & Excise service by asking him to you show you ID and get a receipt.

If the fine is already determined then you have nothing to lose by contacting the local excise office or they probably have an internal investigations unit in Dublin, outline the situation to date to somebody senior to this guy and if they suspect this dude of pulling this type of stroke before, they may ask you to co-operate in a sting to nail the guy in which case you'll probably be let off paying any fine for your efforts.

irish pavee

dont pay its not your would hie pay if it was yours

irish pavee

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I was under the impression that you had 30 days from the date of import within which to present the car for inspection and registration?

If not, then one could just bring in an import, use it for a few months and then pay up the VRT when it suits a few months later.

not now all new laws

corktina

Piri wrote: »

This is against EU law
There is no such a thing that Irish resident We are all EU resident so you can drive any EU reg car in EU if you have insurance.

grand so. lets all go get our cars from the Uk ..we'kll tell Customs you said it was Ok

corktina

irish pavee wrote: »

not now all new laws

you have 7 days to book an appointment and 30 days to complete the process.

Big Nasty

irish pavee wrote: »

dont pay its not your would hie pay if it was yours

Cant!

Jimmy Bottlehead

irish pavee wrote: »

dont pay its not your would hie pay if it was yours

irish pavee wrote: »

not now all new laws

Not to be a dick, but can you please type a little clearer? It costs nothing to use a few more words which would make it much easier to read.

taram

So let me get this straight: when I drive back to Ireland next time with my English reg car, I cannot lend it to my dad, despite the insurance saying I can?

slimjimmc

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Interesting law that, never heard of it, source please?

Here you go : Finance Act 1993

Sect 130 bans vehicles not registered here except in circumstances which are clearly defined in Sect 135. Note that "person established outside the State" excludes state residents.
Sect 139 makes it an offence.

Sect 130:

(4) A person shall not have in his possession or charge after the 1st day of January, 1993, an unregistered vehicle or a converted vehicle as respects which the prescribed particulars in relation to the conversion have not been declared to the Commissioners unless the person is an authorised person or the vehicle is the subject of an exemption under section 135 in force for the time being.

Sect 135:

Temporary exemption from registration.
135.—A vehicle which is temporarily brought into the State may be exempted by the Commissioners from the requirement to be registered, in such manner and subject to such conditions, restrictions and limitations as the Minister may prescribe by regulations made by him under section 141 if the vehicle is—

(a) brought into the State by a person established outside the State for his private or business use,

(b) brought into the State solely for the purpose of a competition, exhibition, show, demonstration, or similar purpose and is not intended to be sold or offered for sale in the State and is intended to be taken out of the State on the fulfilment of such purpose, or

(c) designed or specially adapted as professional equipment brought into the State by a person established outside the State for use exclusively by such person or under his personal supervision.

Sect 139:

(3) It shall be an offence under this subsection for a person, in respect of a vehicle in the State—

(a) to be in possession of the vehicle if it is unregistered unless he is an authorised person or the vehicle is the subject of an exemption under section 135 for the time being in force and the vehicle is being used in accordance with any conditions, restrictions or limitations referred to in section 135 ,

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You can bring a foreign car in and drive it for a few months before having to register it.

Not as a general rule, only if you meet the requirements as shown above or have authorisation from Revenue. If you're importing you had to declare by next business day of entry, this has been upped to 7 days with new VRT assessment system. You mightn't be given an Irish registration number for ages and therefore would still be displaying foreign plates but because you've already declared with Revenue you're ok.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The customs officer is being tick and ignorant, so best ignore him. If that doesn't work, complain him.

Perhaps, but he's acting within his lawful authority albeit slowly.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Also, if the car is back in NI, what exactly is the OP going to pay VRT on?
Irish customs so often try it on, the problem is that once the officer says something, no matter how preposterous, he cannot back down, most of these people are insecure bullies, so going over their head is the only way, proper complaints channels, ombudsman, etc...
The rule is always: Never argue with the official, he cannot back down, no matter how wrong he is, complain via the proper channels.

True, he can't impose VRT since the vehicle is not being registered here. Most likely the OP was being given the option to pay VRT if he wanted to continue driving it here. Obviously this is not something the OP will be doing.
However the OP mentioned a fine of €500, I expect this is probably for being in charge of an unregistered car. Customs can offer you the choice of a fine or a court summons (which could lead to a heavier penalty).

corktina

taram wrote: »

So let me get this straight: when I drive back to Ireland next time with my English reg car, I cannot lend it to my dad, despite the insurance saying I can?

not if he's an Irish resident you can't.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I was under the impression that you had 30 days from the date of import within which to present the car for inspection and registration?

If not, then one could just bring in an import, use it for a few months and then pay up the VRT when it suits a few months later.

+1, top of the class, /thread
I'm pretty sure there's no Irish law stating otherwise, the customs officer may be referring to "Oirish" law, somewhere along the lines of "look, I'm the authorata figure here and you don't be arguing with me now to be sure"
Arms, legs and other bodyparts here being chanced, don't get bullied OP and stand your ground.

Seth Brundle

When must I Register?

If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad you must make an appointment with an NCTS Centre within 7 days of the vehicle arriving in the State, in order to register and pay the VRT (and any other tax liabilities due on the vehicle). Confirmation of this appointment must be kept in the vehicle at all times until the registration process is completed and the registration number is displayed on the vehicle. You must then complete the registration process within 30 days of the vehicle arriving in the State.

Where a vehicle is not registered within this time, an additional assessment of VRT may be raised for the period the vehicle remained unregistered in the State. In this regard, you are advised to retain possession of the documentation relating to the shipping or storage of the vehicle, if the date of the invoice is more than 30 days earlier than the date of registration. It should be noted that an unregistered vehicle may be detained by Revenue officials or by An Garda Síochána.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vrt-guide.html#section2

Tropheus

I've had my Audi serviced with Agnews in Belfast a few times. They always gave me a replacement car if there was major work being done and of course it was NI registered.

I know they get a few customers from the South so they must do this regularly.

I had no problem transferring my insrance temporarily on to their car, but never got stopped. I'll think again before doing that.

There are a few garages up there that get business from the South as they're the only franchise dealer for that marque on the island. I suppose the risk is with the person driving the car as they'll get fined, not the garage.

slimjimmc

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

+1, top of the class, /thread
I'm pretty sure there's no Irish law stating otherwise, the customs officer may be referring to "Oirish" law, somewhere along the lines of "look, I'm the authorata figure here and you don't be arguing with me now to be sure"
Arms, legs and other bodyparts here being chanced, don't get bullied OP and stand your ground.

It is currently 30 days to complete the registration process, but you must start it within 7 days. That amendment only came into force on 16th Aug 2010, prior to that you had only until the next business day to start the process.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter because the fact is the OP was not importing the car, he only got a loan of it and admitted this to the customs officer. He is therefore prohibited from driving a foreign registered car as per the 1993 Act. The customs officer was enforcing the law as it is written, not making it up as he went along to make himself look like a big man.

ABEasy

OP did you give him your name and address? If so did they ever send you any correspondence? It seems so unusual to be calling you asking to meet it might be possible they may not have or mislaid your details and only had your phone number (probably a long shot). If it were me I'd wait till I got a fine in writing in the post and ignore his calls.

Plus is there a set fine for this offence or does it depend on the mood of the customs official.