Gerry Adams 'TD' Has he changed????

stephentbb2000

Gerry Adams said: "As Republicans, Sinn Fein is very aware of the symbolism of a state visit by Queen Elizabeth of England and of the offence it will cause to many Irish citizens.

"Particularly victims of British rule and those with legacy issues in this state and in the North. We are also very conscious of the attitude of our Unionist neighbours."

He added: "The president has invited the English monarch and Sinn Fein respects her right to do so.

"However we believe this visit is premature and we expect our views to be respected also."

When George V visited in 1911, he stayed in Dublin Castle - then the seat of British rule in Ireland.

This man wanted to rule on our behalf, have Sinn Fein changed?????

imme

'SF respects the right of her (the President) to..' invite the Queen to visit Ireland.

Wow, that's big of them.

Usual old tripe from SF. Adams talking about 'legacy issues'. No, he hasn't changed.

All he's done is bring his backward progress to a new stage by being elected a TD.

chucken1

OP..Why did you put TD in inverted commas?

stephentbb2000

To highlight the point he is an elected Representative speaking on behalf of his constituency and as a member of the Dail. The majority will say good luck to Finna Fail, me included but this is not the way forward.

caseyann

stephentbb2000 wrote: »

Gerry Adams said: "As Republicans, Sinn Fein is very aware of the symbolism of a state visit by Queen Elizabeth of England and of the offence it will cause to many Irish citizens.

"Particularly victims of British rule and those with legacy issues in this state and in the North. We are also very conscious of the attitude of our Unionist neighbours."

He added: "The president has invited the English monarch and Sinn Fein respects her right to do so.

"However we believe this visit is premature and we expect our views to be respected also."

When George V visited in 1911, he stayed in Dublin Castle - then the seat of British rule in Ireland.

This man wanted to rule on our behalf, have Sinn Fein changed?????

Link for this please?

Sinn Fein leader, Gerry Adams

There are still a lot of legacy issues that need to be resolved.

I don't think this is the right time for the English queen to come here. I don't think we can afford it, apart from anything else.

As we continue to build a new dispensation, then all of those things are possible, but not now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12652934

godtabh

stephentbb2000 wrote: »

To highlight the point he is an elected Representative speaking on behalf of his constituency and as a member of the Dail. The majority will say good luck to Finna Fail, me included but this is not the way forward.

Those views don't represent his constituency, he had Rhodes before he ever went near Louth

Inverse to the power of one!

Is it just me or do the northern unionist members of boards hold less hostility towards Adams and SF in general then their non-unionist southern fellows boardsies?

Maybe it's a conspiracy....

But I guess what also interests me is why a lot of Irish people are so openly hostile towards SF citing the past when most British are indifferent at this stage despite them having been the victims of the IRA's terrorism?

celtictiger32

what was the problem in him saying the visit would be premature i happen to agree i think we are a long way away from that yet. i wonder if micheal martin had of said that would it have gotten the same response

Erindoors

Gerry Adams...Does,nt sound very Irish does it!?

As far as i am concerned,he does,nt speak for me! I have never voted for him or his party. In fact everything that this man represents digusts me!

I asked a friend just before the recent general elections would he vote for Sinn Fíenn and his reply was that the only thing that sinn fíenn had to offer the people of his locality was E80 a night to stand in a shop doorway so that the proprietors and customers would be well protected!

Has Gerry Adams changed?...hmmm?...
The only inclination i will ever have that the man has changed is when he and the rest of the old guard resigns and a new sinn fíenn is reborn under a leadership born out of the peace process and not by those who would not apologise when the IRA where targeting civilian men women and children!

On several occassions i met the man, or at least stared him down from across a room full of people who either fully suported him or where in awe of his charisma, but i was in no doubth that he was as much the personification of Evil for what he represented as Joseph Geobbels was for the Nazi party!

I was in O,connel street when the love ulster parade was to happen, and all i saw of the aprentice boys was thier bus in the distance, and then i saw the destruction all about me and the Mob(being contained by the Garda near o,connel bridge), the bigest load of dirty scumbags i had ever seen in one place at one time, this was their political calling card...vandalism,violence and looting!
Sinn fíenn of course had the previous day warned all their political representatives to keep away from the parade,they had wind of the carnage that was to follow, or as i belive, they had organised it all!

If the British Queen comes to Dublin, then so be it, she will be welcome by me at least. I wont be waveing a union jack or indeed a tricolour(Green,white and orange!),but i will have my camera and i will mark the ocassion in my own way, and i will do so happy in the knowledge that when she is gone the trcolour will still be flying over Dublin Castle and that the sovereignty of the Republic of Ireland will still be in the hands of good and decent Irish politicians, and not Sinn Fíenn!

Gerry Adams will never change, he may indeed change coats to suit him, but for me at least, he is below contempt!

Manach

Whilst not a voter SF, due to their economic/social policies, they have changed the republician movement in a positive way in no small part to Mr. Adams. I'd take a middle road, in welcoming the Queen as a measure of our current friendship with the UK but also not forgetting our historical issues with England.

celtictiger32

Erindoors wrote: »

Gerry Adams...Does,nt sound very Irish does it!?

As far as i am concerned,he does,nt speak for me! I have never voted for him or his party. In fact everything that this man represents digusts me!

I asked a friend just before the recent general elections would he vote for Sinn Fíenn and his reply was that the only thing that sinn fíenn had to offer the people of his locality was E80 a night to stand in a shop doorway so that the proprietors and customers would be well protected!

Has Gerry Adams changed?...hmmm?...
The only inclination i will ever have that the man has changed is when he and the rest of the old guard resigns and a new sinn fíenn is reborn under a leadership born out of the peace process and not by those who would not apologise when the IRA where targeting civilian men women and children!

On several occassions i met the man, or at least stared him down from across a room full of people who either fully suported him or where in awe of his charisma, but i was in no doubth that he was as much the personification of Evil for what he represented as Joseph Geobbels was for the Nazi party!

I was in O,connel street when the love ulster parade was to happen, and all i saw of the aprentice boys was thier bus in the distance, and then i saw the destruction all about me and the Mob(being contained by the Garda near o,connel bridge), the bigest load of dirty scumbags i had ever seen in one place at one time, this was their political calling card...vandalism,violence and looting!
Sinn fíenn of course had the previous day warned all their political representatives to keep away from the parade,they had wind of the carnage that was to follow, or as i belive, they had organised it all!

If the British Queen comes to Dublin, then so be it, she will be welcome by me at least. I wont be waveing a union jack or indeed a tricolour(Green,white and orange!),but i will have my camera and i will mark the ocassion in my own way, and i will do so happy in the knowledge that when she is gone the trcolour will still be flying over Dublin Castle and that the sovereignty of the Republic of Ireland will still be in the hands of good and decent Irish politicians, and not Sinn Fíenn!

Gerry Adams will never change, he may indeed change coats to suit him, but for me at least, he is below contempt!

its very ironic that people like you think that gerry adams did all these bad things in the past, i.r.a etc. and you harp on about not voting for sinn fein for these reasons. yet your saying now that he hasnt changed when he has been instrumental in the bringing about of the peace process in the north, he has been an elected representitive for many years in west belfast, he now holds a seat in the dail as an elected t.d. these two sides of an argument are opposite ends of a scale so ask yourself again if you believe that he was that person has he changed...

Victor

Adams was talking to two constituencies in his statement. One the republican community, where the is saying he isn't happy. The other, the rest of the world, where he is saying he isn't as unhappy as he used to be.

At least he is now referring to his boss by her preferred name, although 'of England' is perhaps a bit petty. :pac:

godtabh wrote: »

Those views don't represent his constituency, he had Rhodes before he ever went near Louth

What does that mean?

A Dub in Glasgo

What is the problem if a republican is not too happy that a monarch is coming to visit. In a democratic country, people should be allowed to hold a different view to those that welcome a monarch. Do people here have a funtamental problem with people who are not entirely happy with royalty?

Erindoors

celtictiger32 wrote: »

its very ironic that people like you think that gerry adams did all these bad things in the past, i.r.a etc. and you harp on about not voting for sinn fein for these reasons. yet your saying now that he hasnt changed when he has been instrumental in the bringing about of the peace process in the north, he has been an elected representitive for many years in west belfast, he now holds a seat in the dail as an elected t.d. these two sides of an argument are opposite ends of a scale so ask yourself again if you believe that he was that person has he changed...

OK, so he has changed, we all do, but he has changed the way De Valera changed at the end of the war of independence, but not out of any love for humanity or the british!
What were Gerry or Dev to do? Continue with the bloodshed in contempt of the revulsion of the rest of the world? No, he did the good thing, something many thought impossible and others still in the IRA thought treasonous!
The peace process is a beautiful thing indeed and belfast asmuch as the rest of the six counties has benifitted from this new found peace and the prosperity that come from it!
Is,nt this the reason why the Real IRA is doing the Real IRA thing, a Fascist undertaking that says that if you dont agree with us the we will introduce your face to the ground!?
Real IRA, OLD IRA, Provisional IRA, lets see, who do we like the best?....
....Ieeeny, Meenny ,Mineey Mo?????....

Doesnt make any difference now(except for the Real IRA), all the rest are old men who have hung up their Kalashnikovs, and gerry Adams who incidentially has been qouted as saying the IRA has,nt gone away, Well he is a TD, and he has changed for the better, but if he ever takes power in the Republic, then i fear that that day will indeed live in Infamy!

Victor

Erindoors wrote: »

OK, so he has changed, we all do, but he has changed the way De Valera changed at the end of the war of independence, but not out of any love for humanity or the british!
What were Gerry or Dev to do? Continue with the bloodshed in contempt of the revulsion of the rest of the world? No, he did the good thing, something many thought impossible and others still in the IRA thought treasonous!

Surely, in 1921/1922 DeVelera and others should have seen that Ireland had been at war since 1914, the people were fed up with it and that it didn't need to be dragged on until 1923 and beyond?

And that Adams and others should have seen that in 1974?

Joey the lips

imme wrote: »

'SF respects the right of her (the President) to..' invite the Queen to visit Ireland.

Wow, that's big of them.

Usual old tripe from SF. Adams talking about 'legacy issues'. No, he hasn't changed.

All he's done is bring his backward progress to a new stage by being elected a TD.

Those that elected him dont see his progress as backward. You fail to realise that.

This is the papers contacting adams and asking him for his response. For my part i cannot care who visits

I do have a problem with the royals. i dont think anyone has the right to put themselves on a pedestal above me bar a doctor/teacher through knowledge

I have no respect for the royals and i think the money it will cost us in security is crazy. Its bull to say it will benefit tourism

IMO the only person who has the right to complain about the queens vist is those who have yet to get an apology from her

Namely those relatives of those shot on bloody sunday and those shot in the dublin/monaghan bombings.

This thread is quickly filling with the Anti/pro what ever sinn feinn say followers

But i except one thing. I do not like the royals and i dont want them here.

celtictiger32

Erindoors wrote: »

OK, so he has changed, we all do, but he has changed the way De Valera changed at the end of the war of independence, but not out of any love for humanity or the british!
What were Gerry or Dev to do? Continue with the bloodshed in contempt of the revulsion of the rest of the world? No, he did the good thing, something many thought impossible and others still in the IRA thought treasonous!
The peace process is a beautiful thing indeed and belfast asmuch as the rest of the six counties has benifitted from this new found peace and the prosperity that come from it!
Is,nt this the reason why the Real IRA is doing the Real IRA thing, a Fascist undertaking that says that if you dont agree with us the we will introduce your face to the ground!?
Real IRA, OLD IRA, Provisional IRA, lets see, who do we like the best?....
....Ieeeny, Meenny ,Mineey Mo?????....

Doesnt make any difference now(except for the Real IRA), all the rest are old men who have hung up their Kalashnikovs, and gerry Adams who incidentially has been qouted as saying the IRA has,nt gone away, Well he is a TD, and he has changed for the better, but if he ever takes power in the Republic, then i fear that that day will indeed live in Infamy!

you say yes he has changed but he still gets the argument of what happened in the past..
why should he change for the 'love or humanity of the british' i have no love for the british but it doesnt mean a thing regarding changing my ways

Wildlife Actor

Joey the lips wrote: »

But i except one thing. I do not like the royals and i dont want them here.

I don't like anybody but I know that other people think they're ok, so I just gotta not get stressed out about it. I mean Justin ffffing Bieber's going to be here next week. But hey, I'm just not going to go and I'm not going to throw things at him or anyone who's ok with him being here. The Queen's harmless in comparison.

Joey the lips

Love nor Money wrote: »

I don't like anybody but I know that other people think they're ok, so I just gotta not get stressed out about it. I mean Justin ffffing Bieber's going to be here next week. But hey, I'm just not going to go and I'm not going to throw things at him or anyone who's ok with him being here. The Queen's harmless in comparison.

Justin is not a head of state. Protesting against the queen is acceptable because she is a head of state. This is obvious dont you think.

I think its perfectly acceptable to protest against the queens visit

Just as much as its acceptable for macker and enda to hang the union jack on irish polls.

Wildlife Actor

Joey the lips wrote: »

Justin is not a head of state. Protesting against the queen is acceptable because she is a head of state. This is obvious dont you think.

Actually it's not obvious why you draw a distinction between heads of state and others. Why is it unacceptable to protest against others?

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think its perfectly acceptable to protest against the queens visit

Freedom of speech means you can protest against whatever you like. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Just as much as its acceptable for macker and enda to hang the union jack on irish polls.

Well you see, that's just made up isn't it?

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What is the problem if a republican is not too happy that a monarch is coming to visit. In a democratic country, people should be allowed to hold a different view to those that welcome a monarch. Do people here have a funtamental problem with people who are not entirely happy with royalty?

If anyone wants to fall off the chair laughing go check the history of posts from A Dub in Glasgo. 85% are about soccer.
This the SF 100% real republicans. Does No Foreign Games at Croke Park ring a bell.
I assume you live in Scotland and are paying you tax to the Queen's Government. I also assume you are getting the same treatment as any other citizen is living in the GB.
Republican................. Me arrrrse

A Dub in Glasgo

Yawn yawn yawn... please tell me you did not spend the last 15 hours thinking of that retort. Pitiful

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yawn yawn yawn... please tell me you did not spend the last 15 hours thinking of that retort. Pitiful

No , it only takes five minutes to flush out the SF wafflers

A Dub in Glasgo

Do you have a point here?

Fitzerb

Just for the record. Mr Adams not too long ago (I think 96 spoke out on radio regarding
The importance of MR Thomas “Slab” Murphy to the peace process and that he was a very legitimate respected business man and was getting harassed by the Gardaí.

Not long after this outrageous statement the home and yard of Slab Murphy was raided.

Here is what was found

30,000 cigs
8,000 Litres of Fuel
Several Fuel Tankers
200,000 £ in sterling

Not long after the seizure CAB investigated him and he was forced to pay €2.5 million in tax.

Could you just imagine the self righteous indignation from the Shinners if this connection of Slab Murphy was with any other political party.

Gerry and his band of plastics republicans are gangsters to the core


Has he Changed.......... He has like hell

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Do you have a point here?

Yes. I do.

You are quite happy to live under the rule of the British Government with Queen and all, then you want to slag off people in a different Country than the one you live in for inviting her.

I find it laughable but normal for the SF supporters.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fitzerb wrote: »

Not long after this outrageous statement the home and yard of Slab Murphy was raided.

Several Oil Tankers

Feckin hell that is one big home and yard. Where each of them this big?



How did he store that many away from the sea?

A Dub in Glasgo

Fitzerb wrote: »

Yes. I do.

You are quite happy to live under the rule of the British Government with Queen and all, then you want to slag off people in a different Country than the one you live in for inviting her.

I find it laughable but normal for the SF supporters.

You need to learn to read. I was identifying the democratic right of anybody to be against a monarchy [hint is in the name republican]. I know quite a few people here who would support the dissolution of the monarchy and replace them with an elected President. You would also call these guys wafflers as well? If not, why not?

I think you are confused about terminology and the idea of democracy.

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Feckin hell that is one big home and yard. Where each of them this big?



How did he store that many away from the sea?

I guess for you I should have made it clear they were road oil tankers. I forgot it was you. Now how about an answer.... I guess not

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What is the problem if a republican is not too happy that a monarch is coming to visit. In a democratic country, people should be allowed to hold a different view to those that welcome a monarch. Do people here have a funtamental problem with people who are not entirely happy with royalty?

Fitzerb wrote: »

If anyone wants to fall off the chair laughing go check the history of posts from A Dub in Glasgo. 85% are about soccer.
This the SF 100% real republicans. Does No Foreign Games at Croke Park ring a bell.
I assume you live in Scotland and are paying you tax to the Queen's Government. I also assume you are getting the same treatment as any other citizen is living in the GB.
Republican................. Me arrrrse

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You need to learn to read. I was identifying the democratic right of anybody to be against a monarchy [hint is in the name republican]. I know quite a few people here who would support the dissolution of the monarchy and replace them with an elected President. You would also call these guys wafflers as well? If not, why not?

I think you are confused about terminology and the idea of democracy.

Well I find the thinking of most Shinners to be confusing. Please see above your post and my reply. Please note I have highlighted Visit and Welcome. I don’t see any mention in the post that I responded to from you about the views of the few people you know or the dissolution of the monarchy.
And it will be a very, very very sad day if the supporters of SF have to teach me about democracy.

Learning to read?????? Confused ????? Terminology?????
Tell me about it

Erindoors

celtictiger32 wrote: »

you say yes he has changed but he still gets the argument of what happened in the past..
why should he change for the 'love or humanity of the british' i have no love for the british but it doesnt mean a thing regarding changing my ways

I can understand somewhat with people having a gripe with the british Monarchy, but whats wrong with the british people themselves?
Remember that we the Irish had lived under the rule of the crown for 800 years and to the greater extent we benifited from that union!

Yes we also suffered, and in many cases worse than those of the same class on British soil. But all in all we the people of the British Isles suffered together, not so much the fault of the crown as such a thing was merely a figure head without any real power over those that really caused the hardships, the politicians of their time supported and encouraged in their policies by the Nobility and later on by the Bourgeois industrialists who made up no more than 7% of the population, yet controlled in the region of 70% of the total yearly income of the british isles!...
they are the real culprits in regards to history!

Back off in regards to the British people, wether they be Scot, welsh,cornish or indeed ulster scots...their fine by me!

Hannibal

The queen was the Commander in chief of the British armed forces for the last half century and never once commented on the Troubles. This visit should be used for her to apologise to the Irish people for what happened under her reign and the reign of previous members of her family. If that were to happen then that would be a major point in moving the process forward.
No Irish person should bow to her either.

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yawn yawn yawn... please tell me you did not spend the last 15 hours thinking of that retort. Pitiful

Same old Shinners,,,,,, All the smart answers but no facts

Erindoors

Victor wrote: »

Surely, in 1921/1922 DeVelera and others should have seen that Ireland had been at war since 1914, the people were fed up with it and that it didn't need to be dragged on until 1923 and beyond?

And that Adams and others should have seen that in 1974?

Yes people were fed up with the war from 1914, after all by christmas of 1914 it hadnt ended, nor by christmas 1915,or 1916 and so on. But remember for most of the war conscription was not an issue for in regards to the Irish! They fought not for King nor Kaiser..but for Ireland. and to a greater extent the people of Ireland supported them as they marched off to the front!
Of course the Easter riseing of 1916, that grand but failed experiment brought about a renewed sense of Irish political patriotism that snow balled into outright rebellion. and for what? for what was all that blood spilt for? Exactly what the british were going to give us prior to the outbreak of hostilities...Home rule!

History has a tendency to repeat itself, but it would seem that the Irish just loves the pity that comes from getting a bloody nose from the big bad bully next door!
There was an alternative in 1974...The social and Democratic labour party! If it was,nt for Sinn Fíenn and the IRA, maybe we wouldnt be having this discussion right now!?

Exile 1798

Erindoors wrote: »

I can understand somewhat with people having a gripe with the british Monarchy, but whats wrong with the british people themselves?
Remember that we the Irish had lived under the rule of the crown for 800 years and to the greater extent we benifited from that union!

We haven't lived under the crown for 800 years.

This is an common gripe which you seem to have mistaken as historical fact.

Erindoors wrote: »

Yes people were fed up with the war from 1914, after all by christmas of 1914 it hadnt ended, nor by christmas 1915,or 1916 and so on. But remember for most of the war conscription was not an issue for in regards to the Irish! They fought not for King nor Kaiser..but for Ireland. and to a greater extent the people of Ireland supported them as they marched off to the front!

"Neither King nor Kaiser" was a Nationalist, anti-conscription and anti-war slogan. You seem to have confused it for a pro-war rallying cry.

KeithAFC

Dotsey wrote: »

The queen was the Commander in chief of the British armed forces for the last half century and never once commented on the Troubles. This visit should be used for her to apologise to the Irish people for what happened under her reign and the reign of previous members of her family. If that were to happen then that would be a major point in moving the process forward.
No Irish person should bow to her either.

Irish unionists?

stephentbb2000

Has he changed? Well maybe as a party they are more involved in current political debates, but underneath i believe Adams and Co have not really changed. Why do they still refer to the past as opposed to looking forward to a healthier relationship with our neighbors.

Look at WW2, how many of these countries who massacared each other are still holding bitter grudges to this day. I am as Republican as the next person. i think the visit of any head of state, monarch or not is a step in the right direction.

Fitzerb

Dotsey wrote: »

The queen was the Commander in chief of the British armed forces for the last half century and never once commented on the Troubles. This visit should be used for her to apologise to the Irish people for what happened under her reign and the reign of previous members of her family. If that were to happen then that would be a major point in moving the process forward.
No Irish person should bow to her either.

I don’t disagree with your post. If she were to place a wreath at Arbour Hill it would show recognition for the aspiration of the people in the 26 Counties to have an united Ireland. It would also avoid any significant connection to the recent troubles. If that was to happen people could move on.
What I don’t want to see is the SF thugs getting involved in silly little protests that will achieve nothing other than bad publicity for ireland Inc across the World.
I have no great desire to see the Queen here, but my protest will not involve me shouting abuse at her and letting my Country down on the world stage. I just wont attended any of the public engagements she is doing. The majority of people support the visit so people who share my view of not wishing the visit to take place should respect the majority view…… Hard to see SF respecting anyone with a different view so I expect our Country to be embarrassed once more by SF

danbohan

Erindoors wrote: »

Gerry Adams...Does,nt sound very Irish does it!?

As far as i am concerned,he does,nt speak for me! I have never voted for him or his party. In fact everything that this man represents digusts me!

I asked a friend just before the recent general elections would he vote for Sinn Fíenn and his reply was that the only thing that sinn fíenn had to offer the people of his locality was E80 a night to stand in a shop doorway so that the proprietors and customers would be well protected!

Has Gerry Adams changed?...hmmm?...
The only inclination i will ever have that the man has changed is when he and the rest of the old guard resigns and a new sinn fíenn is reborn under a leadership born out of the peace process and not by those who would not apologise when the IRA where targeting civilian men women and children!

On several occassions i met the man, or at least stared him down from across a room full of people who either fully suported him or where in awe of his charisma, but i was in no doubth that he was as much the personification of Evil for what he represented as Joseph Geobbels was for the Nazi party!

I was in O,connel street when the love ulster parade was to happen, and all i saw of the aprentice boys was thier bus in the distance, and then i saw the destruction all about me and the Mob(being contained by the Garda near o,connel bridge), the bigest load of dirty scumbags i had ever seen in one place at one time, this was their political calling card...vandalism,violence and looting!
Sinn fíenn of course had the previous day warned all their political representatives to keep away from the parade,they had wind of the carnage that was to follow, or as i belive, they had organised it all!

If the British Queen comes to Dublin, then so be it, she will be welcome by me at least. I wont be waveing a union jack or indeed a tricolour(Green,white and orange!),but i will have my camera and i will mark the ocassion in my own way, and i will do so happy in the knowledge that when she is gone the trcolour will still be flying over Dublin Castle and that the sovereignty of the Republic of Ireland will still be in the hands of good and decent Irish politicians, and not Sinn Fíenn!

Gerry Adams will never change, he may indeed change coats to suit him, but for me at least, he is below contempt!

the sovereignty of the Republic of Ireland will still be in the hands of good and decent Irish politicians,

indeed , thats why its now in the hands of the imf /eu i suppose

KeithAFC

Erindoors wrote: »

Gerry Adams...Does,nt sound very Irish does it!?

As far as i am concerned,he does,nt speak for me! I have never voted for him or his party. In fact everything that this man represents digusts me!

I asked a friend just before the recent general elections would he vote for Sinn Fíenn and his reply was that the only thing that sinn fíenn had to offer the people of his locality was E80 a night to stand in a shop doorway so that the proprietors and customers would be well protected!

Has Gerry Adams changed?...hmmm?...
The only inclination i will ever have that the man has changed is when he and the rest of the old guard resigns and a new sinn fíenn is reborn under a leadership born out of the peace process and not by those who would not apologise when the IRA where targeting civilian men women and children!

On several occassions i met the man, or at least stared him down from across a room full of people who either fully suported him or where in awe of his charisma, but i was in no doubth that he was as much the personification of Evil for what he represented as Joseph Geobbels was for the Nazi party!

I was in O,connel street when the love ulster parade was to happen, and all i saw of the aprentice boys was thier bus in the distance, and then i saw the destruction all about me and the Mob(being contained by the Garda near o,connel bridge), the bigest load of dirty scumbags i had ever seen in one place at one time, this was their political calling card...vandalism,violence and looting!
Sinn fíenn of course had the previous day warned all their political representatives to keep away from the parade,they had wind of the carnage that was to follow, or as i belive, they had organised it all!

If the British Queen comes to Dublin, then so be it, she will be welcome by me at least. I wont be waveing a union jack or indeed a tricolour(Green,white and orange!),but i will have my camera and i will mark the ocassion in my own way, and i will do so happy in the knowledge that when she is gone the trcolour will still be flying over Dublin Castle and that the sovereignty of the Republic of Ireland will still be in the hands of good and decent Irish politicians, and not Sinn Fíenn!

Gerry Adams will never change, he may indeed change coats to suit him, but for me at least, he is below contempt!

They really should take the orange out of the tri colour to be honest. I cringe when i see it. They don't deserve the colour of william of orange on that flag.

walrusgumble

KeithAFC wrote: »

They really should take the orange out of the tri colour to be honest. I cringe when i see it. They don't deserve the colour of william of orange on that flag.

Out of interest, why don't "they deserve teh colour of william of orange"?

Like King James, the 1689-1691 war was a war over two English Kings and not about the independence of Ireland. Neither Kings gaved a damn about Ireland really, William, like James fecked off not long after, never to set foot amongst "their peoples" again.

Not every person on this island of the various branches of the Protestant faith considers themselves to be British or Unionist you know. (Despite the "payback" some were treated to over the next number of years) Whilst in practice, its not the same, but I did not realise that being a member of a particular church meant you had a certain political/national view point (again, in practice, looking at other countries and here, thats not really that true)

I assume that you know why the colours are on the tricolour. Its not to claim over the protestant faith but a symbol of peace between them. You are also well aware of a substantial number of members of the protestant faith who have campaigned one way or another for an independent Ireland, whether with some link to Britian or a complete cut off.

On the lighter view, all the anti papist will note the occassion green white and gold (ala the vatican flag on white and gold)

Adams changed? yes and no. Looks its a sop to his crowd and no more so he won't be considered as a sell out. I don't think anyone , even unionist minded people would be keen on footing the bill. Adams should stay in bed that day. Its a head of state coming to Ireland. Sadly, there will be all sorts of self important people eg Walter, O'Toole, Madam Editor, Duddley Edwards, Myarse, Harris, Bruton Snr etc waffling on about how great we are in "maturing" etc. There will be far too much exposure etc. But look, it was going to happen one day, better off get on with it. Its rather silly considering that UK are our allies when at European Council etc yet we can't have their head of state pop over, despite they receiving at least two of our heads of state (robbo & macca)

I really would wish Gerry and his crowd just does not embarrass us. Grand, they can complain and protest in the Dáil but leave it at that. Saying that, I hope Enda does not do a John Bruton. Funny, the former Offical IRA (different group compared to PIRA) lads like De Rossa and allegedly Gilmore will be there.

It would be good if the Queen at least makes a strong acknowledgment and apology for the past, (hey Blair did it, Australia did it with the abogrines, France & Germany kissed and made up) and then the IRA can do so for their attacks on mainland UK.

The Nationalist up North tended to come down here during 12th July, and bring money into the economy, maybe some might head up there and return the favour, lol

KeithAFC

Out of interest, why don't "they deserve teh colour of william of orange"?

Like King James, the 1689-1691 war was a war over two English Kings and not about the independence of Ireland. Neither Kings gaved a damn about Ireland really, William, like James fecked off not long after, never to set foot amongst "their peoples" again.

Not every person on this island of the various branches of the Protestant faith considers themselves to be British or Unionist you know. (Despite the "payback" some were treated to over the next number of years) Whilst in practice, its not the same, but I did not realise that being a member of a particular church meant you had a certain political/national view point (again, in practice, looking at other countries and here, thats not really that true)

I assume that you know why the colours are on the tricolour. Its not to claim over the protestant faith but a symbol of peace between them. You are also well aware of a substantial number of members of the protestant faith who have campaigned one way or another for an independent Ireland, whether with some link to Britian or a complete cut off.

Catholics and Protestants have been fighting most of the time on the island. The Orange flag represents william of orange. Why they need to put it on the tri colour i don't know.

Perhaps they should just have the green flag with the harp on it, after all that represents a republic much better than it does the tri colour because the vast majority of protestants hate the tri colour.

RandomName2

walrusgumble wrote: »

Out of interest, why don't "they deserve teh colour of william of orange"?

Like King James, the 1689-1691 war was a war over two English Kings and not about the independence of Ireland. Neither Kings gaved a damn about Ireland really, William, like James fecked off not long after, never to set foot amongst "their peoples" again.

Not every person on this island of the various branches of the Protestant faith considers themselves to be British or Unionist you know. (Despite the "payback" some were treated to over the next number of years) Whilst in practice, its not the same, but I did not realise that being a member of a particular church meant you had a certain political/national view point (again, in practice, looking at other countries and here, thats not really that true)

I assume that you know why the colours are on the tricolour. Its not to claim over the protestant faith but a symbol of peace between them. You are also well aware of a substantial number of members of the protestant faith who have campaigned one way or another for an independent Ireland, whether with some link to Britian or a complete cut off.

On the lighter view, all the anti papist will note the occassion green white and gold (ala the vatican flag on white and gold)

Adams changed? yes and no. Looks its a sop to his crowd and no more so he won't be considered as a sell out. I don't think anyone , even unionist minded people would be keen on footing the bill. Adams should stay in bed that day. Its a head of state coming to Ireland. Sadly, there will be all sorts of self important people eg Walter, O'Toole, Madam Editor, Duddley Edwards, Myarse, Harris, Bruton Snr etc waffling on about how great we are in "maturing" etc. There will be far too much exposure etc. But look, it was going to happen one day, better off get on with it. Its rather silly considering that UK are our allies when at European Council etc yet we can't have their head of state pop over, despite they receiving at least two of our heads of state (robbo & macca)

I really would wish Gerry and his crowd just does not embarrass us. Grand, they can complain and protest in the Dáil but leave it at that. Saying that, I hope Enda does not do a John Bruton. Funny, the former Offical IRA (different group compared to PIRA) lads like De Rossa and allegedly Gilmore will be there.

It would be good if the Queen at least makes a strong acknowledgment and apology for the past, (hey Blair did it, Australia did it with the abogrines, France & Germany kissed and made up) and then the IRA can do so for their attacks on mainland UK.

The Nationalist up North tended to come down here during 12th July, and bring money into the economy, maybe some might head up there and return the favour, lol

+1

RandomName2

KeithAFC wrote: »

Catholics and Protestants have been fighting most of the time on the island. The Orange flag represents william of orange. Why they need to put it on the tri colour i don't know.

Perhaps they should just have the green flag with the harp on it, after all that represents a republic much better than it does the tri colour because the vast majority of protestants hate the tri colour.

To be perfectly frank orange traditionally represents Holland (the reason why William was 'of Orange' in the first place if memory serves me right!) - so the Dutch could claim that unionists are out of step using that colour!

And as for the protestants being williamites - well being anti-Jacobean was far more pragmatic... but do remember that they were technically siding against the reigning king (even if James II made a complete hash of his tenure)!

Mind you it was the Catholic Old English who remained loyal to Charles I in the first place, and the protestants in Ulster who sided with the Roundheads back during the Civil War.

Of course the Irish also supported Charles I at that time... as Cromwell well remembered

KeithAFC

RandomName2 wrote: »

To be perfectly frank orange traditionally represents Holland (the reason why William was 'of Orange' in the first place if memory serves me right!) - so the Dutch could claim that unionists are out of step using that colour!

And as for the protestants being williamites - well being anti-Jacobean was far more pragmatic... but do remember that they were technically siding against the reigning king (even if James II made a complete hash of his tenure)!

Mind you it was the Catholic Old English who remained loyal to Charles I in the first place, and the protestants in Ulster who sided with the Roundheads back during the Civil War.

Of course the Irish also supported Charles I at that time... as Cromwell well remembered

William was dutch but Protestants in Ulster joined his ranks. Hince why the Orange is used and why imo they have the right to use it.

Fitzerb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You need to learn to read. I was identifying the democratic right of anybody to be against a monarchy [hint is in the name republican]. I know quite a few people here who would support the dissolution of the monarchy and replace them with an elected President. You would also call these guys wafflers as well? If not, why not?

I think you are confused about terminology and the idea of democracy.

Fitzerb wrote: »

Well I find the thinking of most Shinners to be confusing. Please see above your post and my reply. Please note I have highlighted Visit and Welcome. I don’t see any mention in the post that I responded to from you about the views of the few people you know or the dissolution of the monarchy.
And it will be a very, very very sad day if the supporters of SF have to teach me about democracy.

Learning to read?????? Confused ????? Terminology?????
Tell me about it

I missed your response (Post 30#). Perhaps I should have checked the Man Utd board today to see it.

del_c

KeithAFC wrote: »

Catholics and Protestants have been fighting most of the time on the island. The Orange flag represents william of orange. Why they need to put it on the tri colour i don't know.

Perhaps they should just have the green flag with the harp on it, after all that represents a republic much better than it does the tri colour because the vast majority of protestants hate the tri colour.

Kind of ironic that the tricolour inspires such spite among unionists....probably due to the last 40 years of history as anything else. I'd be interested to know how Orangemen / Loyalists see the Orange band on the flag...do they see any kind of welcoming intent in it at all, or is it regarded as a statement of hegemony??

I love the tricolour myself; I like the fact that the two traditions on this island are represented in equal measure on the flag. It's a noble intent, worthy of the spirit of Wolfe Tone, and reflective of the fact that after 400 years, I think it's time we accepted that Orangemen are Irish too....


If you were to change the flag to the harp emblem in a united Ireland situation, then probably St. Patrick's Blue would be the fairest solution to the background colour...this was used to represent Ireland in the past: personally I think taking green out of the national falg would be a step too far.

junder

del_c wrote: »

Kind of ironic that the tricolour inspires such spite among unionists....probably due to the last 40 years of history as anything else. I'd be interested to know how Orangemen / Loyalists see the Orange band on the flag...do they see any kind of welcoming intent in it at all, or is it regarded as a statement of hegemony??

I love the tricolour myself; I like the fact that the two traditions on this island are represented in equal measure on the flag. It's a noble intent, worthy of the spirit of Wolfe Tone, and reflective of the fact that after 400 years, I think it's time we accepted that Orangemen are Irish too....


If you were to change the flag to the harp emblem in a united Ireland situation, then probably St. Patrick's Blue would be the fairest solution to the background colour...this was used to represent Ireland in the past: personally I think taking green out of the national falg would be a step too far.

The thing is the tricolour does not represent the two traditions on this island, it represents only one tradition. When I see a tricolour all I see is the flag of the republic of Ireland, nothing else.

RandomName2

del_c wrote: »

Kind of ironic that the tricolour inspires such spite among unionists....probably due to the last 40 years of history as anything else. I'd be interested to know how Orangemen / Loyalists see the Orange band on the flag...do they see any kind of welcoming intent in it at all, or is it regarded as a statement of hegemony??

I love the tricolour myself; I like the fact that the two traditions on this island are represented in equal measure on the flag. It's a noble intent, worthy of the spirit of Wolfe Tone, and reflective of the fact that after 400 years, I think it's time we accepted that Orangemen are Irish too....

Yes - it was a remarkably progressive symbol for the self-proclaimed 'soldiers of destiny' to embrace.

Hannibal

Fitzerb wrote: »

I don’t disagree with your post. If she were to place a wreath at Arbour Hill it would show recognition for the aspiration of the people in the 26 Counties to have an united Ireland. It would also avoid any significant connection to the recent troubles. If that was to happen people could move on.
What I don’t want to see is the SF thugs getting involved in silly little protests that will achieve nothing other than bad publicity for ireland Inc across the World.
I have no great desire to see the Queen here, but my protest will not involve me shouting abuse at her and letting my Country down on the world stage. I just wont attended any of the public engagements she is doing. The majority of people support the visit so people who share my view of not wishing the visit to take place should respect the majority view…… Hard to see SF respecting anyone with a different view so I expect our Country to be embarrassed once more by SF

Its not SF thugs that will be the aggressive type protesters. I expect Eirigi and the likes to go over the top and the likes of random stone throwing yobs who hijacked the Love Ulster as an excuse for a riot. I was on the scene at the beginning of that march and I can guarantee you the people involved werent members of political groups. The garda were a bit heavy handed and handled the situation wrong initially and it went nuts pretty soon after and some people saw it as an excuse to loot shops.

We have to approach it in a grown up way, while I dont believe the visit is right it shouldn't be used by her to go visiting toffs and people like Magnier and McManus's studs. It should be used to build bridges and apologise and recognise the horror the British inflicted on this country.

You mention Arbour Hill and yes thats something she should do and she should also take a tour of Kilmainham Gaol.

I am a republican and I don't agree with the whole concept of monarchies but while maintaining a prominent dignified protest, it shouldn't be violent or riot like and hopefully Ireland won't put on a horror show for the world but instead show everybody while we disagree we've put our violent past behind us.

SF and Ogra SF are not the danger here, its more Eirigi and groups affiliated with the RIRA and CIRA who will be intent on causing damage.

Erindoors

Exile 1798 wrote: »

We haven't lived under the crown for 800 years.

This is an common gripe which you seem to have mistaken as historical fact.

"Neither King nor Kaiser" was a Nationalist, anti-conscription and anti-war slogan. You seem to have confused it for a pro-war rallying cry.

Well i suppose you are correct, but lets not split hairs here as it was indeed a long time!
As for the nationalist war cry, i had a fair idea i was going to get feedback in that regards, but still i cannot imagine that for the most part the men going off to the front "singing its a long way to tipperary" had any kind of devotion to either king or Kaiser, so in that regards it would seem apt that supposedly paddy would have said it as he looked out over the somme or Verdun!?