For people who make less than those on the dole...

ebixa82

There are many people out there with degrees, masters and other qualifications who can no longer find suitable work. Many have no option but to work demoralising minimum wage jobs, often coming out less than if they were on the dole and also lose their entitlements...

Instead of having to do this why don't these people just get the dole and all the benefits that go with it and either:

1) work without pay in an area that genuinely interests them (if at all possible)...who knows a paid position may arise down the line..

or

2) work voluntarily with one of the many organisations and charities that are underfunded by the government and under supported...homeless, elderly, disabled etc. or some kind of community based project such as caretaking of their local area..

People would gain much more satisfaction from doing so and be financially better off at the end of the week particularly when rent allowance etc are taken into consideration..

I personally would be happier to say I am on the dole but work 30-35 hours per week for say, Focus Ireland, than saying I work the nightshift in Abrekebabra...

This will then increase the number of positions for those who have no problem working in Abrekebabra and such establishments!

Tech3

< Dole = pointless job

Lambsbread

If you are on the dole you are supposed to be looked for employment. Not spending 30-35 hours doing volunteer work per week.

ebixa82

Lambsbread wrote: »

If you are on the dole you are supposed to be looked for employment. Not spending 30-35 hours doing volunteer work per week.

If you are in a recession there is no employment out there. And if you were to spend your time productively giving something back by doing voluntary work I'm sure you could still find time to look for a job.

gosuckonalemon

Agree with you 100% OP. So many NGOs and charities that need all the help they get out there especially as poverty rises and living standards fall in the recession.
You don't have to be getting paid to be doing a job you enjoy, but you shouldn't have to be miserable in a job just to make enough to scrape by in life..

ZRelation

Tech3 wrote: »

< Dole = pointless job

I don't understand your maths?!

Vicxas

Wait dont you have to volunteer now if you're on the dole?

stovelid

A prejudicial dole analysis think tank (with it's own office) much generate much needed jobs in Ireland, if only to stop thousands of people undertaking the work on a voluntary basis from their parent's houses every 2 or 3 days.

u140acro3xs7dm

You are not allowed volunteer if you are on the dole. It is Job Seekers Allowance/Benefit as in you have to spend all your day looking for a job. As far as i know if the dole office finds out you are volunteering they can cut your dole. It doesnt really make much sense seen as there is so little work out there people cant really spend 40 hours a week looking for a job.

Also min wage on a 40 hour week is 306 before tax the dole is 186 i think. I doubt they get taxed over 120 a week.

chicken fingers

ebixa82 wrote: »

There are many people out there with degrees, masters and other qualifications who can no longer find suitable work.

Just because you may have a masters in history or anthropology does not make you employable or somehow give you value.

common sense brigade

Why should taxpayers pay for somebody who wants to work in their dream job and not get paid as opposed to working a crap job and supporting yourself. i would love to quit my job get dole and benefits and fart about being being 'Arty', but the reality is its up to me to support myself in life, not expect the people who are working to fund my happieness in life.

dubbie82

Well OP....who is supposed to do the job in Abrekababra instead??

Riamfada

Fishing season and long days are starting. That was by far the only positive experience of my dole time. Long lazy days by the old swimming hole. Now I have to stupid work again this summer.

Yeay ... i think

ebixa82

Saylor Thundering Rainstorm wrote: »

You are not allowed volunteer if you are on the dole. It is Job Seekers Allowance/Benefit as in you have to spend all your day looking for a job. As far as i know if the dole office finds out you are volunteering they can cut your dole. It doesnt really make much sense seen as there is so little work out there people cant really spend 40 hours a week looking for a job.

Also min wage on a 40 hour week is 306 before tax the dole is 186 i think. I doubt they get taxed over 120 a week.

How many people spend all day looking for a job in reality. There is only so much searching for work that can be done in a recession. If someone devoted 2 hours per day searching for a job they could spend another 4 hours doing some work.
Voluntary work doesn't have to be that official, I mean cutting the grass or landscaping in the general areas of their estate, or calling on their elderly neighbours. Something that will give them satisfaction and prevent boredom..

dubbie82 wrote: »

Well OP....who is supposed to do the job in Abrekababra instead??

People who have no interest in doing voluntary work or working for free in a job that interests them etc.

kmick

Well a job in Abrakebabra is technically a job feeding the poor no?

ebixa82

Saylor Thundering Rainstorm wrote: »

You are not allowed volunteer if you are on the dole. It is Job Seekers Allowance/Benefit as in you have to spend all your day looking for a job. As far as i know if the dole office finds out you are volunteering they can cut your dole. It doesnt really make much sense seen as there is so little work out there people cant really spend 40 hours a week looking for a job.

Also min wage on a 40 hour week is 306 before tax the dole is 186 i think. I doubt they get taxed over 120 a week.

]

You come out with 240e or so net. However you are not entitled to near as many benefits...rent allowance, medical card etc.

seamus

Lambsbread wrote: »

If you are on the dole you are supposed to be looked for employment. Not spending 30-35 hours doing volunteer work per week.

Personally I would be more than happy to allow people to claim the dole and volunteer full time for charities. With caveats of course.

The likes of Concern don't need volunteer workers when their board members are arriving into work in €100,000 sports cars. But many other small charities could benefit massively from volunteer workers who are funded by the state. Volunteer work builds the person's skills and often leads to paid employment so I don't see the problem.

Acacia

chicken fingers wrote: »

Just because you may have a masters in history or anthropology does not make you employable or somehow give you value.

Eh... yes, it does actually.

Aside from areas that would specifically need somebody with a history or anthropology degree ( off the top of my head, charity work (anthro) or working in the heritage sector (history), not to mention teaching), I've seen many ads for office-based work that require a 3rd level degree of any kind,including Arts-based subjects.

Just because some people think they are worthless subjects,it doesn't mean they are.

u140acro3xs7dm

ebixa82 wrote: »

]

You come out with 240e or so net. However you are not entitled to near as many benefits...rent allowance, medical card etc.

Would you really get stung for that much?

Tech3

Tech3 wrote: »

< Dole = pointless job

Generally maybe, but hat’s off to those who work for works sake and love their jobs. For me I would rather earn a pittance for a job I love than get paid massively for one I hate. I have known quite a number of people working for very little money, but do it because they are doing it for the work not the money.

There are many people too who earn less than they are paying out on creche fees and the like. They still work even though it makes no financial sense. They work because they love their jobs.

Anyway, money is not all you get from a job. Work experience has a value too in the future.

dubbie82

So why would any company spend money on wages if you work for free just because feel the job is interesting??

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of jobseekers doing volunteer work for NGO's or community work etc. But it should not be taken as an excuse to replace a paid job.

Well I better go now, I have work do to so the taxman get's my money so you have the luxury to turn down another job that is below your qualification, interest or criteria!!

Gummy Panda

ebixa82 wrote: »

There are many people out there with degrees, masters and other qualifications who can no longer find suitable work. Many have no option but to work demoralising minimum wage jobs, often coming out less than if they were on the dole and also lose their entitlements...

So you are saying these people are too good for these jobs?

Who are these jobs good enough for?

Jim

I've tried to do Volunteer work while on the dole before. I went into my Social Welfare Office and told them I wanted to do volutneer work and could they please tell me what I can and can't do, how many hours I'm allowed to work etc. I got sent to three different hatches and then the last one the guy just gave me a form to fill out.

On the form you have to put down the name of the charity, what work you will be doing, how many hours you are doing, is anyone else doing the same work getting paid etc. So instead of them telling me what I can and can't do, so I can tell that to charities when looking for a job, I have to go out, get a volunteer job, fill out the form and bring it back to them so they can tell me if I'm allowed to do the job or not. Very frustrating.

Before recently you weren't allowed do any charity work because, as Lambsbread stated, they expect you to be looking for a job all day everyday. I know a couple of lads who got their dole taken off them because they were doing voluntary work on the sly.

Everything about our social welfare system to totally ridiculous. In the UK you get paid extra on the dole if you do voluntary work.

JoePie

ebixa82 wrote: »

1) work without pay in an area that genuinely interests them (if at all possible)...who knows a paid position may arise down the line..

There is a FAS scheme for exactly this.
or

ebixa82 wrote: »

2) work voluntarily with one of the many organisations and charities that are underfunded by the government and under supported...homeless, elderly, disabled etc. or some kind of community based project such as caretaking of their local area..

It's already been said, but if you're able to pursue any kind of work, then you have to be looking for it. The Government were talking about a scheme like this back in November, for those on JSB and JSA.

People would gain much more satisfaction from doing so and be financially better off at the end of the week particularly when rent allowance etc are taken into consideration..

ebixa82 wrote: »

I personally would be happier to say I am on the dole but work 30-35 hours per week for say, Focus Ireland, than saying I work the nightshift in Abrekebabra...

So you would be happy working for that long, and getting paid for just under 25 hours a week? When I was on the dole, I was offered part-time work, but there was no incentive as I would either get less on the dole, or have to work for the same amount.

I hate the way you use two full stops.

Jim

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So you are saying these people are too good for these jobs?

Who are these jobs good enough for?

He said demoralising, not demening or anything. Presumably if they spent 4 odd years in college getting a degree they are ambitious and want to work in their chosen field.

So yes, any other kind of job would be demoralising.

dubbie82

dubbie82 wrote: »

So why would any company spend money on wages if you work for free just because feel the job is interesting??

Lots of reasons. One example being that companies are competing with each other for the best employees. You pay top dollar for top people. Sometimes there is not enough people to fill all the jobs... there are some areas in software development right now with not enough people... so you have to pay to get the right ones. The reasons for high wages are a long list.

But many people work in areas where even dole money is higher than what they come out with. The sciences, especially in the area of research, would be a good example. A lot of research is very poorly paid, and what money does come in comes from hard slogging at chasing grants and donors and worrying where the next finance will come from if it comes at all. Yet many people work in this field simply for the love of discovery and science... some of them knowing that the answers they seek may be answers they never even find in the end... much research ends in failure. The thrill of discovery is better than any money for some people however.

Gummy Panda

Jim wrote: »

He said demoralising, not demening or anything. Presumably if they spent 4 odd years in college getting a degree they are ambitious and want to work in their chosen field.

So yes, any other kind of job would be demoralising.

So cause there is no positions in your dream role, you can refuse work you think below that?

Acacia

dubbie82 wrote: »

Well I better go now, I have work do to so the taxman get's my money so you have the luxury to turn down another job that is below your qualification, interest or criteria!!

I don't know anyone on the dole who would turn down a paying job , just because it is not necessarily what they want to do for a living, apart from the "career- dole-spongers". It's just it's incredibly hard at the moment to get any job so why not get experience in something that you have a qualification in?

The idea of the FAS scheme that was mentioned earlier isn't to replace a paying job. You're still expected to be looking for work and you can leave the placement if you find work. It's meant to be a short-term thing.

In any case , genuine people on the dole who can't find work just can't win. If you don't do anything all day ( except look for work) you're lumped in as a dole-sponger with those who have never woorked a day in their life. If you do voluntary experience in - shock horror- an area that you're actually qualified in , only because you can't find any other work, you're accused of using the tax-payer to fund your ideal job.

El Horseboxo

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So you are saying these people are too good for these jobs?

Who are these jobs good enough for?

I've spent 6 years in college, earned 2 degrees and learned another language for the one i'm in now. I worked hard to get to my current position and spent a lot of money to get here. Almost 100k on 2 years alone in the US as the course wasn't offered here at the time. And i never got any grants for the 4 years i done here. So yeah in a way i would feel i am too good or overqualified to work in a minimum wage job in a demoralizing sense. When you put so much effort into anything and then you don't get the expected or satisfying outcome it can be demoralizing. You can apply that logic to anything. Not just jobs.

Jim

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So cause there is no positions in your dream role, you can refuse work you think below that?

No? I never said that?

big_show

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So cause there is no positions in your dream role, you can refuse work you think below that?

Your putting words in other peoples mouths,

Who said they are refusing work?

sunflower27

Lambsbread wrote: »

If you are on the dole you are supposed to be looked for employment. Not spending 30-35 hours doing volunteer work per week.

FFS... It takes all of a few minutes to look on the major job websites (including FAS - and if you can find a job there that isn't WPP then fair f*cks to you).

I lost my job in December and have joined the fundraising committee of a charity that I feel strongly about. I absolutely love it.... it makes me feel as if I am contributing in some way. I look forward to our meetings and am always meeting new contacts. Love it.

Jim

sunflower27 wrote: »

FFS... It takes all of a few minutes to look on the major job websites (including FAS - and if you can find a job there that isn't WPP then fair f*cks to you).

I lost my job in December and have joined the fundraising committee of a charity that I feel strongly about. I absolutely love it.... it makes me feel as if I am contributing in some way. I look forward to our meetings and am always meeting new contacts. Love it.

I'm pretty sure that's not his personal opinion, rather he is stating the "rules" of being on the dole.

ebixa82

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So you are saying these people are too good for these jobs?

Who are these jobs good enough for?

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying I personally wouldn't do it.

If I had a choice of working night shifts in a fast food joint for fuc.k all money or to work for a voluntary organisation and claim the dole I would do the latter.

Some people may be disgusted at this but or social welfare system allows me to this. By doing voluntary work while on the dole I would feel I am contributing to society alot more than those who do nothing all day (which our system also allows).

ebixa82

Deleted User wrote: »

Generally maybe, but hat’s off to those who work for works sake and love their jobs. For me I would rather earn a pittance for a job I love than get paid massively for one I hate. I have known quite a number of people working for very little money, but do it because they are doing it for the work not the money.

There are many people too who earn less than they are paying out on creche fees and the like. They still work even though it makes no financial sense. They work because they love their jobs.

Anyway, money is not all you get from a job. Work experience has a value too in the future.

There's a big difference between working for very little because you love your job and working for very little in a job you hate.

Like it or not in Ireland you have a choice of (if your lucky) working a shi.t job for minimum wage, or claiming welfare and doing some voluntary work which you might enjoy and gain satisfaction from..

MidlandsM

dubbie82 wrote: »

Well OP....who is supposed to do the job in Abrekababra instead??

dem for-hen-ers

Gummy Panda

big_show wrote: »

Your putting words in other peoples mouths,

Who said they are refusing work?

Maybe I'm reading the op wrong but I read it as:

They have a degree but they don't want to do a shítty role.
Let them keep their dole and benefits so they can volunteer.
Thus keeping the shítty role open for others with less ambitions.

ebixa82

ebixa82 wrote: »

There's a big difference between working for very little because you love your job and working for very little in a job you hate.

Yea... that is the point I am making alright.

I guess to make explicit the point I am making implicitly in my posts, is that too many people are too keen to measure the "worth" of a job to a person in solely monetary terms. Self satisfaction, self worth, work experience, education and more are all measures too and therefore the generalisation, such as the one above of < DOLE = worthless job, does not hold in many cases.

common sense brigade

lost my job in December and have joined the fundraising committee of a charity that I feel strongly about. I absolutely love it.... it makes me feel as if I am contributing in some way. I look forward to our meetings and am always meeting new contacts. Love it.

Well we can only hope your stamps will run out soon and you will be forced to go out and find work in order to support yourself. and you can do your charity work at weekends and in evenings if you love it so much. i cannot believe i am paying tax in order to keep people like you happy.

Dravokivich

ebixa82 wrote: »

1) work without pay in an area that genuinely interests them (if at all possible)...who knows a paid position may arise down the line..

eh... I'm currently working in IT and came very close to losing my job recently, but got lucky and had a transfer to another account. As a few other boardsies here may be aware, it's been an issue for me for the last 9 or so months.

I would work any job to stay off the dole as long as it payed me enough to get rent / food / bills sorted.

Give me a brush, pay me the wage, and i'd sweep the fúcking streets.

Dole is a priviledge and a source of aid, not a fúcking entitlement...

Fair fúcks to anyone who has high qualifications and the humility to work in a job that's perceived as "below them."

ebixa82 wrote: »

2) work voluntarily with one of the many organisations and charities that are underfunded by the government and under supported...homeless, elderly, disabled etc. or some kind of community based project such as caretaking of their local area..

There are companies out their that employ professional carers... get the training then get a job in it. The idea of voluntary work, would be that you ustilise your spare time doing it. While on the dole, you are not utilising your spare time doing it, as siad many times through this thread already, the Dole is there to aid you monetarily while you are looking for work, not while doing "Free work."

Duggy747

I'm 6 months into my 9 month WPP1 scheme working 9-5, Mon-Fri as a IT technician for an organisation and I cover 60 centres around the county with 1 other techie.

If you're qualified in whatever area, can't find work then I HIGHLY recommend you take on FAS WPP for experience. I'm back up to date since my last IT job, have more certs under my belt now and I've gained far more experience than I would have had I took an average paying IT techie job since I'm on a one-to-one basis with the other IT guy. I've covered a shìtload of stuff.

I also get bumped up to Network Administrator the odd week while the other guy goes on holidays / courses :pac:

Really can't diss the FÁS scheme, myself. I saw the job on their site, went for it and I love being back in this job.......................even though I don't get paid :P

Schism

Saylor Thundering Rainstorm wrote: »

Also min wage on a 40 hour week is 306 before tax the dole is 186 i think. I doubt they get taxed over 120 a week.

The thing about that is a lot of people on minimum wage aren't getting 40 hours a week. People are working jobs from 6 to 30 hours a week.

ebixa82

Dravokivich wrote: »

eh... I'm currently working in IT and came very close to losing my job recently, but got lucky and had a transfer to another account. As a few other boardsies here may be aware, it's been an issue for me for the last 9 or so months.

I would work any job to stay off the dole as long as it payed me enough to get rent / food / bills sorted.

Give me a brush, pay me the wage, and i'd sweep the fúcking streets.

Dole is a priviledge and a source of aid, not a fúcking entitlement...

Fair fúcks to anyone who has high qualifications and the humility to work in a job that's perceived as "below them."



There are companies out their that employ professional carers... get the training then get a job in it. The idea of voluntary work, would be that you ustilise your spare time doing it. While on the dole, you are not utilising your spare time doing it, as siad many times through this thread already, the Dole is there to aid you monetarily while you are looking for work, not while doing "Free work."

Do you think even the most hardest searching people spend 8 hours a day looking for work that's not there?

Searching for a job suited to your qualifications on the net etc. wouldn't take up much more than a few hours a day. Your not defrauding the system just because you are not searching 8 hours a day.

The rest of the time you could be doing something that contributes to your community or a voluntary organisation...

ebixa82

JoePie wrote: »

I hate the way you use two full stops.

Sometimes I use three in fairness...

ebixa82

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading the op wrong but I read it as:

They have a degree but they don't want to do a shítty role.
Let them keep their dole and benefits so they can volunteer.
Thus keeping the shítty role open for others with less ambitions.

That's it in a nutshell...reducing the competition for shi.ttier roles.

Dravokivich

ebixa82 wrote: »

Do you think even the most hardest searching people spend 8 hours a day looking for work that's not there?

Searching for a job suited to your qualifications on the net etc. wouldn't take up much more than a few hours a day. Your not defrauding the system just because you are not searching 8 hours a day.

The rest of the time you could be doing something that contributes to your community or a voluntary organisation...

by that logic i should have been unemployed and on the dole for the last 5 years...

i'm trained and qualified as a sound engineer. i had a hard time finding work in my choosen profession so went on and got other jobs i was able to do.

menial jobs at that far below what i should be doing. i've worked part time in a petrol station and in a stock room for a shop for 4 months before getting into it callcentres.

maybe i should just quit... hop on the dole... do some charity work?

becuase thats what you are telling me to do...

ebixa82

Dravokivich wrote: »

by that logic i should have been unemployed and on the dole for the last 5 years...

i'm trained and qualified as a sound engineer. i had a hard time finding work in my choosen profession so went on and got other jobs i was able to do.

menial jobs at that far below what i should be doing. i've worked part time in a petrol station and in a stock room for a shop for 4 months before getting into it callcentres.

maybe i should just quit... hop on the dole... do some charity work?

becuase thats what you are telling me to do...

I'm not telling anybody to do anything!

What I'm saying is, if I were to find myself unemployed; instead of working a job I detested I would claim the dole and keep occupied by doing some type of voluntary work until I found a job that suited my qualifications or that, at the least, I didn't hate!

common sense brigade

common sense brigade wrote: »

Well we can only hope your stamps will run out soon and you will be forced to go out and find work in order to support yourself. and you can do your charity work at weekends and in evenings if you love it so much. i cannot believe i am paying tax in order to keep people like you happy.

+1

ebixa82 wrote: »

I'm not telling anybody to do anything!

What I'm saying is, if I were to find myself unemployed; instead of working a job I detested I would claim the dole and keep occupied by doing some type of voluntary work until I found a job that suited my qualifications or that, at the least, I didn't hate!

Glad to see this attitude didn't die out with the Celtic Tiger. God forbid you should ever have to do anything remotely difficult in life. Who do you think would be paying into the system if everyone had your attitude and decided to ditch their jobs and do what they really loved? It's a lazy, entitled, pampered attitude. Here's a thought. There are 24 hours in a day. Most people get two entire days off per week. It's perfectly possible to do a job you consider beneath you for some of those hours, to pay the rent and bills, and spend the rest of your time looking for your dream job and doing voluntary work.

man.about.town

deciding to be on the dole over working is the most pathetic thing i have ever heard. these moralizing jobs you talk about shows us all that you either have a very high opinion of yourself or a snob. your a loser OP plain and simple

Jim

It's not really ethical to take advantage of our Social Welfare system and tax payers so you can avoid a job you might dislike.

Everyone has to work, that's the basis of society. Do your crappy job and find ways to fullfill yourself when you're not earning your living.

saywhatyousee

ebixa82 wrote: »

I'm not telling anybody to do anything!

What I'm saying is, if I were to find myself unemployed; instead of working a job I detested I would claim the dole and keep occupied by doing some type of voluntary work until I found a job that suited my qualifications or that, at the least, I didn't hate!

Why not just work a job that does not suit your quailifaction till a suitable job comes up?