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Adams or O'Caolain-which has more credibility

  • 03-03-2011 8:03pm
    #1
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭


    Gerry Adams has announced himself as the new leader of Sinn Fein in the Dail. He is replacing Caoimhin O Caolain in this role. Having seen both men speak on many topics I find this a very strange move as Caoimhin O Caolain is clearly the more articulate, clear and concise in his expression of their party position on many items. On top of this are the obvious other credibility issues with Adams that will mean people don't respect what he says from a justice point of view.

    So my question: Does Adams taking this role reduce the chances of Sinn Fein being a viable and useful opposition party?
    I think it absolutely does but would like other views.


Comments

  • #2
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Adams will get more attention


  • #3
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams has announced himself as the new leader of Sinn Fein in the Dail. He is replacing Caoimhin O Caolain in this role. Having seen both men speak on many topics I find this a very strange move as Caoimhin O Caolain is clearly the more articulate, clear and concise in his expression of their party position on many items. On top of this are the obvious other credibility issues with Adams that will mean people don't respect what he says from a justice point of view.

    So my question: Does Adams taking this role reduce the chances of Sinn Fein being a viable and useful opposition party?
    I think it absolutely does but would like other views.

    O'Caolain has an unctuous quality which counts against him but then Baron Gerry has the whole "former leader of the IRA army council" thing going against him.

    Pearse Doherty would probably have been the better option if SF wanted to get more credibility with the wider public.


  • #4
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    another.....Sinn Fein....thread.........must....not......screammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


  • #5
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    Adams or O'Caolain-which has more credibility

    Ó Caoláin - see, it really wasn't that hard.

    I suppose the truest answer here is which ever of them annoy the Sunday Independent/Unionst/Blueshirt/West Brit crowd the most.

    /end thread.


  • #6
    imme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Credibility is a funny characteristic to chose OP imo.

    For a start you can't get any more Provisional SF than Gerry Adams can you. There's credibility for you.

    Will he be an effective leader of a Dail party is another question. Does he have a plan to use those elected for SF to develop their support, or will they be used as seat fillers in the Dail.

    I'm sure O'Caoileain as the longest serving TD could have expected to continue as leader. He's only the leader because he's the longest in the Dail imo. So, in a sense the role was thrust upon him.

    Will SF say if Gerry assumed the role of leader or was there an election in the parliamentary party.

    Another question, will SF be involved with this body http://www.britishirish.org/


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  • #7
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    As a non-SF supporter, I always found Caoimhin O Caolain to be atrocious in the position.
    I think Adams would be a significantly better.
    And Doherty probably better again.

    Obviously SF didn't have those choices until a week ago, so O Caolain made sense. The best of a bad bunch.
    Who else were they going to put?
    Aengus O Slowdig :rolleyes:


  • #8
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    He's the party leader, why would he not be Dail leader?


  • #9
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    He's the party leader, why would he not be Dail leader?

    Because when he tries to say something credible, people will see his association with bank robbers and Garda murders, etc. His links to this are more tenuous than Docherty or O Caolain. If they wanted to increase in the future that type of association is not the type they need now. Furthermore I feel it taints anything that someone like docherty says if they have Adams at their shoulder. Maybe thats just my opinion?


  • #10
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    It is convention that the party leader would also be the Dáil leader. I quite like Caoimhghín and think that he's a well spoken and articulate politician. I think that most people across the political spectrum respect him, regardless of their political persuasion.

    Alot of people have told me that they would like to see Pearse Doherty take up not only the role of leader of the Dáil, but leader of the party. Pearse is still young, and I believe he will be party leader someday - but his time is not yet. Let's see what Gerry has to offer - I believe he will be a strong voice of opposition.


  • #11
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    imme wrote: »
    Another question, will SF be involved with this body http://www.britishirish.org/

    They already are. Arthur Morgan and Barry McElduff were both members.


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  • #12
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    dlofnep wrote: »
    It is convention that the party leader would also be the Dáil leader. I quite like Caoimhghín and think that he's a well spoken and articulate politician. I think that most people across the political spectrum respect him, regardless of their political persuasion.

    Alot of people have told me that they would like to see Pearse Doherty take up not only the role of leader of the Dáil, but leader of the party. Pearse is still young, and I believe he will be party leader someday - but his time is not yet. Let's see what Gerry has to offer - I believe he will be a strong voice of opposition.
    Why wasnt Gerry 2nd Minister then?


  • #13
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Why wasnt Gerry 2nd Minister then?
    Didn't want to be seen in that position by his voters. Also didn't want his voters seeing him in westminster either.

    Gerry Adams isn't credible anyway. But he will get more attention.


  • #14
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Didn't want to be seen in that position by his voters. Also didn't want his voters seeing him in westminster either.

    Um, Martin McGuinness doesn't sit in Westminster either - What's your point?


  • #15
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Gerry Adams isn't credible anyway. But he will get more attention.

    Credible to who? He was credible enough for his constituents, receiving more votes than any other politician in the north as an MP, and received one of the highest amount of votes in Louth in the recent elections for TD.


  • #16
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Credible to who? He was credible enough for his constituents, receiving more votes than any other politician in the north as an MP, and received one of the highest amount of votes in Louth in the recent elections for TD.
    Most Irish people don't vote for him.
    Um, Martin McGuinness doesn't sit in Westminster either - What's your point?
    Mcguinness is the same. But Adams didn't want republicans seeing him being deputy first minister of a different country. Seems Martin has a bit more dignity than that.


  • #17
    Hannibal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Most Irish people don't vote for him.
    Most Irish people didnt have the chance to vote for him but the ones that did voted for him to represent them


  • #18
    nesf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Most Irish people don't vote for him.

    Eh, what? We can't vote for the vast majority of politicians. It doesn't mean anything about someone's credibility.


  • #19
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    nesf wrote: »
    Eh, what? We can't vote for the vast majority of politicians. It doesn't mean anything about someone's credibility.
    Gerry works on an all ireland basis by standing in Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.


  • #20
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Seanchai wrote: »
    I suppose the truest answer here is which ever of them annoy the Sunday Independent/Unionst/Blueshirt/West Brit crowd the most.

    /end thread.

    Ah, Unionist=those who have problems with the facilitation of murder and terror eh? By that warped logic, Republicans=those who yearn for and cheer murder and terror.


  • #21
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,091 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    If Jarry can't remember that he was a member.....

    [ to paraphrase a song on Liveline yesterday ]

    Not your ornery onager



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  • #22
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Keith, I find it best not to discuss anything with you. You seem to be confused on the most basic issues with regards to elections. Only those who are registered to vote in a constituency can vote.


  • #23
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Keith, I find it best not to discuss anything with you. You seem to be confused on the most basic issues with regards to elections. Only those who are registered to vote in a constituency can vote.
    Eh? My point is Gerry moved down to the republic and failed to get even into the top 3. I think FF got more votes than him. If he was loved by the public as some claim, he would of done better.


  • #24
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Eh? My point is Gerry moved down to the republic and failed to get even into the top 3. I think FF got more votes than him. If he was loved by the public as some claim, he would of done better.

    Um firstly, he was in the top 3 - Only Enda Kenny and Shane Ross received more votes than him. Secondly - Are you suggesting that because he received only the 3rd highest amount of votes out of 166 seats, it isn't a good result? (And no, no Fianna Fáil politician received more votes than him - Mícheál Martin received 5000 votes less than Gerry infact).

    It's clear you don't understand the election results when you making silly statements like "Most Irish people didn't vote for him".


  • #25
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Einhard wrote: »
    Ah, Unionist=those who have problems with the facilitation of murder and terror eh? By that warped logic, Republicans=those who yearn for and cheer murder and terror.
    The Unionists have never had any problems been closely associated with those with the importation of arms for the facilitation of murder and terror of catholics throughout the troubles and openly encouraged it,especially ones massive vote returns.


  • #26
    imme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Why wasnt Gerry 2nd Minister then?

    -Gerry didn want to be Dep 1st Min because he felt it would look like a true acceptance of the situuation (sic), if Martin was there he could say, well we know this is a short term part of our project, i.e. uni Ire.

    -He wanted to be seen as a Mandela-figure, even though Mandela was President for one term, Gerry thought being Dep 1st Min wouldn't have the same stauus.

    -He wanted to be free to write yet more books on his history, give his analysis, further the wants of those oppressed minorities worldwide, Basque separatists, FARC supporters etc


  • #27
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    imme wrote: »
    -Gerry didn want to be Dep 1st Min because he felt it would look like a true acceptance of the situuation (sic), if Martin was there he could say, well we know this is a short term part of our project, i.e. uni Ire.

    -He wanted to be seen as a Mandela-figure, even though Mandela was President for one term, Gerry thought being Dep 1st Min wouldn't have the same stauus.

    -He wanted to be free to write yet more books on his history, give his analysis, further the wants of those oppressed minorities worldwide, Basque separatists, FARC supporters etc
    You buy into that from him? Please tell me you don't take read his 'work'..


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