Diesel converted classics

gyppo

Now that its looking like petrol is going to exceed 1.5E a litre, its becoming an even more expensive hobby to run a thirsty classic car.
Im talking mostly about classic status as opposed to vintage status cars.

Anyone here converted their classic car to an oil-burner engine in a bid to lower costs, and if so can you relay your experiences???

shawnee

Have a few friends considering converting merc 123s. However I have seen one an 84 with a more modern diesel engine in it and I'm told that it runs very well. Does take from the originality a bit though , doesn't it..:o

macplaxton

gyppo wrote: »

Im talking mostly about classic status as opposed to vintage status cars.

Car to expand on that definition? If it's a mid-80s sort of vehicle converted to diesel then it's only going to have to meet the requirements of Tax (b) and Diesel (b) below.

From a government tax perspective its:

a) VINTAGE - more than 30 years old
b) cc - under 30 years old to 30/06/2008
c) emissions - from 01/07/2008

From a goverment emissions testing (NCT) perspective its:

Diesel:
a) unmeasured / visible smoke check - prior to 01/01/1980
b) Between 01/01/1980 - 30/06/2008

Average smoke meter reading to be less than:

1. 2.5m-1 in the case of naturally aspirated diesel engines and
2. 3.0m-1 in the case of turbo charged or supercharged diesel engines.

c) From 01/07/2008

1. Maximum attainable engine speed is more than 90% of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer.
2. Average smoke meter reading is to be less than 1.5m-1.

Petrol/Gas:
a) unmeasured / visible smoke check - prior to 01/01/1980
b) Between 01/01/1980 - 30/09/1986

1. max 4.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 1000ppm @ idle

c) Between 01/10/1986 - 31/12/1993

1. max 3.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 750ppm @idle

d) Between 01/01/1994 - 30/06/2002

1. max 0.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 200ppm @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.

e) From 01/07/2002

1. max 0.2% CO @ idle
2. max HC 200ppm @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.
3. lambda 0.97-1.03 @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.

Rotary and two-stroke engines:
a) Exempt from emissions testing.

Note: Date first registration of car, not date of engine manufacture is used for emissions testing. If manufacturer's figures allow higher emissions, they override the figures laid down by the NCT test.

macplaxton

Haven't considered converting to diesel, I'd just buy a diesel in the first place. But I have considered (but yet to try) converting the electronic fuel injection to improve economy.

gyppo

macplaxton wrote: »

Car to expand on that definition? If it's a mid-80s sort of vehicle converted to diesel then it's only going to have to meet the requirements of Tax (b) and Diesel (b) below.

From a government tax perspective its:

a) VINTAGE - more than 30 years old
b) cc - under 30 years old to 30/06/2008
c) emissions - from 01/07/2008

From a goverment emissions testing (NCT) perspective its:

Diesel:
a) unmeasured / visible smoke check - prior to 01/01/1980
b) Between 01/01/1980 - 30/06/2008

Average smoke meter reading to be less than:

1. 2.5m-1 in the case of naturally aspirated diesel engines and
2. 3.0m-1 in the case of turbo charged or supercharged diesel engines.

c) From 01/07/2008

1. Maximum attainable engine speed is more than 90% of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer.
2. Average smoke meter reading is to be less than 1.5m-1.

Petrol/Gas:
a) unmeasured / visible smoke check - prior to 01/01/1980
b) Between 01/01/1980 - 30/09/1986

1. max 4.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 1000ppm @ idle

c) Between 01/10/1986 - 31/12/1993

1. max 3.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 750ppm @idle

d) Between 01/01/1994 - 30/06/2002

1. max 0.5% CO @ idle
2. max HC 200ppm @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.

e) From 01/07/2002

1. max 0.2% CO @ idle
2. max HC 200ppm @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.
3. lambda 0.97-1.03 @ 2500rpm or at a speed specified by the manufacturer.

Rotary and two-stroke engines:
a) Exempt from emissions testing.

Note: Date first registration of car, not date of engine manufacture is used for emissions testing. If manufacturer's figures allow higher emissions, they override the figures laid down by the NCT test.

The point I was trying to make was classic cars (20-30 years old, that are not eligible for the 48E vintage tax rate) cost significantly more to run on an annual basis.
Eg: I have an 1985 Mercedes 230E that costs circa 860E to tax per year.
Thats 800E that could have contributed to almost 100 gallons of petrol - this would practically cover my fuel costs for the year, based on 3000 miles p/a@25 mpg.

If my tax rate was 48E though, I would'nt be looking into the fuel costs.

Its the punitive motor tax rates based on engine capacity thats the killer in this country.

superfly35

I have actually a question about the road tax, I read somewhere that before 1987 the road tax price was different.

Could somebody remember how much it was for a 2.3 engine back then ?

Did you think about LPG ? It might be easier and without killing your vehicle spririt?

macplaxton

gyppo wrote: »

The point...Eg: I have an 1985 Mercedes 230E that costs circa 860E to tax per year.

Ok, at present rates / policy it's got another €3½k of tax to go regardless of what it burns (say like-for-like engine capacity). So weigh that against conversion costs, saving in juice and loss of originality.

Worth it? Nah.

If it stings that much, chop it in for a pre '80 (or pre '81 if you don't mind jumping through the NCT hurdle annually.) Alternatively, skip the country and pay a little bit more in fuel tax in the say the UK and enjoy dirt-cheap insurance costs instead. Instead of moaning about 860 yoyo motor tax, you can moan about council tax instead. Horses for courses.

If you like the car that much and like the country, then just live with it. 3k miles annual isn't a lot of miles to paying €1.50 a litre on.

As you say, it's hefty tax for that example regardless of what it guzzles.

gyppo

Well, after all my spouting, even though I gave my present car scenario as an example, I don't think I could bring myself to do a diesel conversion on it - It passed its NCT yesterday with flying colours.

However, I would deffo consider doing a diesel conversion on something like a poverty spec early 80's cortina, etc..

corktina

gyppo wrote: »

However, I would deffo consider doing a diesel conversion on something like a poverty spec early 80's cortina, etc..

we would track you down and have you dealt with if you did....:cool:

gyppo

corktina wrote: »

we would track you down and have you dealt with if you did....:cool:

Would'nt a nice 1.3l mk4/5 cortina sound wonderful with a transit tddi engine installed:D

macplaxton

gyppo wrote: »

I don't think I could bring myself to do a diesel conversion on it ....
However, I would deffo consider doing a diesel conversion on something like a poverty spec early 80's cortina, etc..

Well you've half seen the light now

(Poverty spec models are arguably rarer than than higher spec models of a given marque though)

corktina

gyppo wrote: »

Would'nt a nice 1.3l mk4/5 cortina sound wonderful with a transit tddi engine installed:D

much nicer with a V6.....

apc

Read an article of a volvo amazon that was converted to a diesel with one from a montego ( perkins ). The original engine was knackered, He was very pleased with it

jerryg

This company is offering Diesel conversions ,I wonder what the results are like any one here use their services?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1739332

Bigus

corktina wrote: »

much nicer with a V6.....

Yeah a V6 jag diesel !

Basil Fawlty

Are you men or mice you could get a V8 into a Cortina! Diesels into classic cars, you lot should be shot. Really all that effort to ruin a nice old car. I used to be sick when I'd find old Jags with nissan patrol engines etc. Only a miser would do that to a nice car.

gyppo

ciarancapri wrote: »

I used to be sick when I'd find old Jags with nissan patrol engines etc.

Hey, do you know if theres any about!! Save me a load of bother:D

MercMad

jerryg wrote: »

This company is offering Diesel conversions ,I wonder what the results are like any one here use their services?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1739332

............I know the chaps involved, not well, but I know who they are. They have modified and restored plenty of cars and carried out these diesel conversions on many.

If you were considering using them PM me.

jerryg

If you were considering using them PM me.

pm sent.
Jerry

millington

andreas_220D

gyppo wrote: »

Anyone here converted their classic car to an oil-burner engine...

mine's a 1971 W108 with a 3 Litre Diesel Engine. Runs perfectly on veggie oil as well

carchaeologist

apc wrote: »

Read an article of a volvo amazon that was converted to a diesel with one from a montego ( perkins ). The original engine was knackered, He was very pleased with it

Was a P6 knocking round these parts with a Montego diesel in it, nice neat coversion, i never drove it though. Sad thing about it was the P6 was obviously one time a well minded minter, but with the Diesel in it was used as a day to day hack and wrecked.
Also a Jensen Interceptor with a 3 litre merc diesel in it, a horrendous thing. Completely ruined the character of the car. If you cant afford the juice, dont buy the car, simple enough!

Problem with most old diesels is while they are economical, they are usually rattly old nails of things.

MercMad

Diesels of the 70's and 80's were particularly coarse. The Merc and Nissan engines were pretty much the only common 6 cylinder units around and were therefore more popular as they were somewhat smooth and quiet. However engine encapsulation, as seen on the W124 Mercs, would be pretty hard to replicate successfully on a classic, and if standard rubber engine mounts are used, instead of hydraulic, a lot of the vibration and harsheness is transmitted through to the cabin.

Personally........I'd love a 220SE Fintail with a 320CDi engine and box mated to a W108 4.5 rear axle !!

superfly35

Hi lads,

I have a porsche 924 with a diesel engine.

I did not do it, I just have the car.

I will be greatfull to know which engine is in it.
I can tell you it has a hydrolic clutch and I think it is a 2.8, but not sure.






The car does not drive there is a serious problem on the sterring, it steer oval not round....

MercMad

Looks like a JAP diesel to me.......Mitsubishi ?

superfly35

MercMad wrote: »

Looks like a JAP diesel to me.......Mitsubishi ?

Could be possible I have absolutely no idea.
Do you have a idea how to check for definite ?

Cheers

JabbaTheHut

superfly35 wrote: »

Could be possible I have absolutely no idea.
Do you have a idea how to check for definite ?

Cheers

A quick jiffy of google with your rocker cover brings up these guys www.cyclonediesel.com . Have no idea of whether it's connected to them or not, but considering it's a 924, it may have. Was it born in the US?

It does have that Jap oil filler cap on it alright. Maybe if you can get the engine number from the block, you could probably identify it. (the last few numbers would probably not make a difference as that would just be in sequence. It's the letters, and maybe the first few numbers that you'd need to pay attention to.)

I did some work on a late 70's XJ12 with a 80's HiAce diesel engine in it a good few years back. The Jag was auto, and was a complete mess. Kinda like owing a zepplein, running on coal.