Imagine sues Motorola

bealtine

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0228/motorola-business.html

Motorola Ltd is being sued for some €90m over alleged breach of agreements related to broadband services.
Telecommunications firm Motorola Ltd is being sued for some €90m over alleged breach of agreements related to the provision of broadband services in Ireland.

The proceedings were transferred today to the Commercial Court, which fast-tracks business disputes, by Mr Justice Peter Kelly. He made directions for the exchange of legal documents and returned the matter to June next.

The case has been brought by IBB Internet Services Ltd and Irish Broadband Internet Services Ltd - trading as Imagine Networks, and Imagine Communications Group Ltd (ICG) - all with addresses at Barrow Street, Dublin, against Motorola Ltd, with registered offices at Basingstoke, Hampshire, England. The first two plaintiffs are wholly owned subsidiaries of ICG.

Paul Sreenan SC, for the plaintiffs, said they had contracted with Motorola in 2009 for it to provide an end-to-end broadband network nationwide in Ireland, using WiMax technology.

His side was contending that there were significant failures by the defendant in meeting its contractual obligations, and that the plaintiffs had suffered losses of €17m so far, with the estimated total losses to the end of 2013 expected to be some €90m.

It is claimed the alleged failures of the defendant in meeting its obligations led to the plaintiffs being unable to meet known customer demand or to provide a network of the standard and specification contracted for.

The plaintiffs say their business plans envisaged that some 234 base stations would be installed by the end of 2010, but just 125 stations had been installed to date.

The delays have exhausted the plaintiffs' working capital, it is claimed. The effects of the delays continue to be felt on the plaintiffs' finances and the plaintiffs are in the process of restructuring their business, which will result in some 100 staff being made redundant as a cost saving measure, it is alleged.

Paul Gardiner SC, for Motorola, said it was contending it had abided by its contract.

The court also heard that Motorola is in the process if being taken over by Nokia Siemens Network (NSN). The plaintiffs claim, since October last, that the defendant has been unwilling to engage with the plaintiffs about remedying 'financial and technical problems of its own making' and instead had directed the plaintiffs towards NSN.

The plaintiffs say they have as yet no legal or technical relationship with NSN and do not know if that company is willing to resolve the alleged problems.

watty

What about Imagine misusing a Fixed Wireless licence for Mobile System?
What about Imagine buying a Mobile System for wrong band (3.6Ghz)?
What about Imagine's false claims of Unlimited and Speed?

I'm not surprised roll out is going badly. It's possible some of Imagine's losses and problems are Motorola's fault, but it smells of someone looking for a Scapegoat.

IBB was in bad shape with poor infrastructure when Imagine took over. Other ISPs didn't buy them because of those issues. Then Imagine adds Clearwire's Abysmal Irish Operation.

If Fibre roll out occurs Imagine are dead. In any of the UPC areas the UPC rollout will be killing them.

They can't compete on price with 3G/HSPA Mobile operators subsidizing their offerings with Voice revenue and "Imagine Wimax" is often no better, without the virtues of actually working nationally and "on the go" as they don't have a National Licence and the Frequency is too high (3.6GHz vs 2.1GHz is about twice as bad for mobile use).

Even if they had the claimed 234 base stations they are in trouble sooner or later.

It will be fascinating to see what Motorola says. Meanwhile Intel, the Mobile WiMax "sugar daddy" has all but abandoned the system throwing in with LTE, the winner in Next Gen Mobile. WiMax is good for Fixed, that's a successful market (loads of good systems here in Ireland). But for Intel that's no use, not Chips in Laptops and Notebooks, hence their switch to LTE and their goal of Intel WiFi/LTE chipsets in the Centrino Marketing Mould, which was the Mobile WiMax plan. Intel funded a lot of the Imagine switch from Ripwave (s-CDMA) to Mobile WiMax. I think there will be no more of that money.

NSN instead of Motorola. That will be "fun".

smelly sock

Does this mean that in turn we can sue Imagine?

Or motorlolla?

watty

No.
Read Imagine's T&C.

Also you have no contract, actual or implied with Motorola or Intel.

cgarvey

watty wrote: »

it smells of someone looking for a Scapegoat.

That it does! Imagine may have a legitimate claim against Motorola, but Motorola is far from the sole reason for the abysmal performance/roll out.

I'm sure that's not a defence for Motorola, mind, but we'll learn more of that soon!

.cg

lucernarian

I figured that IBB had a reasonably functioning network (ignoring Ripwave) before they ditched it for WiMax. Reports on boards suggest that a straight swap from Breeze to Wimax with external antenna resulted in worse quality of service. I'd expect a possible combination of poor commercial judgement and a breach of contract in play. The further details of this case will be interesting.

Tom Young

I am not a moderator here but I would really caution against any comments on the nature of the case.

clohamon

Tom Young wrote: »

I am not a moderator here but I would really caution against any comments on the nature of the case.

Why? And what do you mean by "the nature of the case"?

td1

I noted this story with great interest - so that's the reason for the crap service and the even worse customer service then eh ... If only I had an alternative provider in my area (Drogheda) ... anybody got any suggestions?

watty

Breeze worked better than Ripwave by far (Breeze= Like Fixed WiMax, Ripwave = Nomaic/Mobile S-CDMA, like obsolete version of 3G). But their infrastructure was very poor.

There was a Mobile WiMax version of the Ripwave Hardware tested in Central America long before Imagine took over IBB. It was better latency and not so poor under full load, but at light to low loads was no better than S-CDMA Ripwave at all. The later Ripwave gear was actually field upgradable via Firmware update to Mobile WiMax, virtually identical to the current "Imagine WiMax". But it wasn't economic as many Ripwave modems older S-CDMA only models and there was little advantage.

It was Intel that promoted the current deal with Motorola to switch almost the entirety of IBB/Imagine to Mobile WiMax and add more bases. Someone didn't do their Mobile/Nomadic homework re: 3.6GHz. It's a lot worse than 2.4GHz or 2.6GHz.

The logic was
1) Intel Backing
2) Mobile/Nomadic gear is easy & low cost customer addition. No Install team going around fitting external aerials for most people. Just like 3G/HSPA.

In practice the frequency used (3.6GHz vs 2.1GHz for 3G and 0.9 + 1.8 for GSM/EDGE) means it's very poor. Unlike actual 3G it's not really portable/Mobile and has no National licence. Just a circle at each licence location.

So quick customer acquisition without an install queue when a base goes live like 3G but, similar to 3G performance without actual real "on-the-go" National Mobile/Portable operation.

Their licence is for Fixed Wireless Broadband intended as alternative to DSL. They may not be actually legally breaking their licence, but they are breaking the spirit of it. Mobile/Nomadic can't ever economically deliver Broadband and wastes 7/8ths of the spectrum capacity!

cgarvey

Tom Young wrote: »

I am not a moderator here but I would really caution against any comments on the nature of the case.

I see nothing wrong with the thread so far. Care to enlighten me / us (privately, if you prefer)?

watty

Now who do Imagine sue?

http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/deals/51448-nokia-siemens-to-sell-wimax-business-to-newnet

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9RAG52O0.htm

Who are "NewNet"?

"Small privately owned firm"

A real infrastructure provider or ... ?

tsue921i8wljb3

JJ is going to struggle to make the new jingle catchy:

"Imagine TD dash LTE a comin' across the nation....":pac: