Roundabouts advice

bungler

I have seen the TV ads from RSA about what lane you should be in and thats great if it is just 4 exits but i live in Dublin and there are a fair few roundabouts that 5 or 6 exits and i wanted to know what lane you should be in for which exit because everyday i see people going arseways and nearly crashing.

If anyone has any advice or even diagrams it'd be great

DrivingTestTips: Brian

bungler wrote: »

I have seen the TV ads from RSA about what lane you should be in and thats great if it is just 4 exits but i live in Dublin and there are a fair few roundabouts that 5 or 6 exits and i wanted to know what lane you should be in for which exit because everyday i see people going arseways and nearly crashing.

If anyone has any advice or even diagrams it'd be great

Left or straight - left lane.
After the straight - right lane.

BUT!!!
If you can see where people are going wrong.... maybe you don't need the advice.
Observation will be your best asset.

ADIDriving

Say what roundabouts you are thinking of. Some are certainly more complicated, with three lanes. Greenhills and Swords spring to mind.

**Timbuk2**

Any exits from 7 o clock to 1 o clock, take the left lane, and any exits past, take the right lane!

Three lane roundabouts are a bit of a mystery zone. There's one north of Dundalk - three lanes, 5 exits, no road markings to indicate which lane is correct.

People usually get the left lane and right lane ok, but treat the middle lane as a "catch all" lane, no matter where they are going! Right, left, straight on, back the way they came - it's surprising how often people will just use the middle lane blankly!

What's appropriate for the Dundalk roundabout (and not necessarily other 3 lane roundabouts, as they aren't standard) is to use the left lane for going left or taking the second exit (11 o clock). The middle lane for the 1 o clock exit, and the right lane for the 3 o clock exit and going back the way you came.

If a roundabout isn't typical, for example with three lanes, there really should be road markings - but this isn't always the case. Even road markings aren't perfect, as in heavy traffic they are often blocked from view.

bungler

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

Left or straight - left lane.
After the straight - right lane.

BUT!!!
If you can see where people are going wrong.... maybe you don't need the advice.
Observation will be your best asset.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Any exits from 7 o clock to 1 o clock, take the left lane, and any exits past, take the right lane!

Three lane roundabouts are a bit of a mystery zone. There's one north of Dundalk - three lanes, 5 exits, no road markings to indicate which lane is correct.

People usually get the left lane and right lane ok, but treat the middle lane as a "catch all" lane, no matter where they are going! Right, left, straight on, back the way they came - it's surprising how often people will just use the middle lane blankly!

What's appropriate for the Dundalk roundabout (and not necessarily other 3 lane roundabouts, as they aren't standard) is to use the left lane for going left or taking the second exit (11 o clock). The middle lane for the 1 o clock exit, and the right lane for the 3 o clock exit and going back the way you came.

If a roundabout isn't typical, for example with three lanes, there really should be road markings - but this isn't always the case. Even road markings aren't perfect, as in heavy traffic they are often blocked from view.

One in particular is the Sandyford Industrial Estate roundabout. I cant paste a picture cause google maps wont let me. If you are coming off the M50 and hit this roundabout, the biggest problem is the exit onto the Leopardstown road, no one knows what lane to go into

Meant to say that i feel the above quotes are different to each other,can someone clarify?


EDIT.

Just found a great picture that explains it well. I was mainly talking about coming from point 6 and taking the exit at 2. so many times i have seen people in the outside lane coming around and nearly plowing into me.

http://www.roadwisedriving.ie/images/Roundabouts(2).jpg

**Timbuk2**

As for the quotes differing, Brian is an ADI, I am not, so his advice will of course override mine. (I'm speed-reading as my battery is about to go) But our advice doesn't seem to contradict.

I'll paste this here. It's the RSA response when a user of the Motors forum e-mailed them.

RSA wrote:

While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any, however as a general rule if taking any Exit between the 8.00am to 1.00pm positions, motorists should approach in the Left Hand Lane, Road Position or as dictated by Road Markings.
If taking any Exit from the 1.pm to 5.pm position motorists should approach in the Right Hand Lane or Position.

And I copied that from this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652&page=1

DrivingTestTips: Brian

While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any,

This is the problem with your situation.
I think you know how to take roundabouts; you just need to apply common sense to what is a bad situation.

Also!
Well done on been able to see where other drivers are going wrong.
Where we may not always do what is correct; it is the making of a good driver to know what is correct.

Best Driving

I am a certified advanced driver with Gold level with ROSPA and special test level with DIA, only important so you know who is giving you advice. I am also an RSA approved ADI.

The RSA advert is clear by the rules of the road but doesn't spell it out enough. When they state straight ahead they mean at 12 o'clock. In the document marking guidelines for testers states that where an exit is in the 6 to 12 o'clock positions the approach should normally be made in the left lane, where the exit is after the 12 o'clock position it should be made in the right lane. exceptions are where the lane is blocked, road markings say otherwise or when directed by a Gardai.

www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf

Also look up a youtube video Roundabouts for indians, as the title suggests it was made for drivers from India moving to the UK system (which is the same as ours for roundabouts). The video gives the info perfectly with good diagrams and includes multilane roundabouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaqcCnduf3g

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Best Driving wrote: »

I am a certified advanced driver with Gold level with ROSPA and special test level with DIA, only important so you know who is giving you advice. I am also an RSA approved ADI.

The RSA advert is clear by the rules of the road but doesn't spell it out enough. When they state straight ahead they mean at 12 o'clock. In the document marking guidelines for testers states that where an exit is in the 6 to 12 o'clock positions the approach should normally be made in the left lane, where the exit is after the 12 o'clock position it should be made in the right lane. exceptions are where the lane is blocked, road markings say otherwise or when directed by a Gardai.

www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf

Also look up a youtube video Roundabouts for indians, as the title suggests it was made for drivers from India moving to the UK system (which is the same as ours for roundabouts). The video gives the info perfectly with good diagrams and includes multilane roundabouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaqcCnduf3g

Notice the use of the word normally.

cavemeister

Hi,

I use this roundabout every morning at the top of brewery road.
I come up brewery road and at the roundabout I never know what lane to be in as it's 2 lanes going in and 2 lanes going out. (See attached pic)

What lane should I be in ?

DrivingTestTips: Brian

cavemeister wrote: »

Hi,

I use this roundabout every morning at the top of brewery road.
I come up brewery road and at the roundabout I never know what lane to be in as it's 2 lanes going in and 2 lanes going out. (See attached pic)

What lane should I be in ?

Thanks for the pic................... you should be in left lane.


If you are driving in heavy traffic and the left lane is blocked with traffic going left; then use the right lane and go to the left lane after you enter roundabout. (this is just so you understand you can use the right lane on approach when the left lane is blocked with traffic going left)
If you are going straight and you are using the right lane; remember to check your left blind spot when you wish to exit.
Also all the advice you are getting is based on what we can see at that roundabout (your pic).
Observation will help you to understand what you should do in any situation.

bungler

cavemeister wrote: »

Hi,

I use this roundabout every morning at the top of brewery road.
I come up brewery road and at the roundabout I never know what lane to be in as it's 2 lanes going in and 2 lanes going out. (See attached pic)

What lane should I be in ?

This is the same roundabout i was talking about in my original post. I have added in paint where i am coming from if i am the yellow line am i following the right way?

**Timbuk2**

bungler wrote: »

This is the same roundabout i was talking about in my original post. I have added in paint where i am coming from if i am the yellow line am i following the right way?

Yes, both the blue and the yellow line look perfect to me!

You should always be in the left lane going straight ahead, but as Brian mentioned above, you can go in the right lane if the left lane is blocked, such as with traffic. However, only do this when there are two exit lanes at the exit - otherwise traffic will have to merge dangerously.

This street-view indicates how it could be done (this is in Northern Ireland - remember that road markings override the basic rules of roundabouts). Note the two lanes marked M1, where the M1 is the 12 o clock exit. It's a three-lane roundabout so the process is slightly different, but the idea is that those in the middle lane of the roundabout, exit on the right lane of the exit road, whereas those on the left lane of the roundabout exit on the left lane of the exit road.

RosieJoe

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Yes, both the blue and the yellow line look perfect to me!

You should always be in the left lane going straight ahead, but as Brian mentioned above, you can go in the right lane if the left lane is blocked, such as with traffic. However, only do this when there are two exit lanes at the exit - otherwise traffic will have to merge dangerously.

This street-view indicates how it could be done (this is in Northern Ireland - remember that road markings override the basic rules of roundabouts). Note the two lanes marked M1, where the M1 is the 12 o clock exit. It's a three-lane roundabout so the process is slightly different, but the idea is that those in the middle lane of the roundabout, exit on the right lane of the exit road, whereas those on the left lane of the roundabout exit on the left lane of the exit road.

Not always the case, even the RSA Ad states it - You must follow what is signed/marked locally!

Roundabout up from the Beacon Hospital, here, is a prime example of this. 3 lanes entering the roundabout. 1st is marked left only, 2nd is marked left or straight on and the 3rd is marked for straight on or right. The number of times I have been in the middle lane turning left and I nearly get side swiped from some muppet in the left only lane going straight. :mad:

The last time the idiot who did this was indicating right whilst talking on his mobile :mad:

**Timbuk2**

RosieJoe wrote: »

Not always the case, even the RSA Ad states it - You must follow what is signed/marked locally!

Yep, of course! I mentioned in my post that road markings/signs override the basic rules!

When I was driving in Castlebar last year, most roundabouts seemed to be marked that the left lane was for turning left only. I'm not sure why - I was caught out a few times, especially when there was heavy traffic blocking the road markings (they really should have actual signs as opposed to road markings only).

RosieJoe

You could just do the following, seems to work for some people!

On entering a roundabout, use any lane. This is for the "which lane to where" game!
Do not indicate coming onto the roundabout, on the roundabout or leaving the roundabout. The suspense of what you will do next will amuse other road users no end.
Finally, you are Alonso, you are sitting behind the wheel of a GP car, you will use all lanes on the roundabout, hitting the apex of each bend as you go!

thesimpsons

the rules on roundabouts all talk about 9o'clock, 12 o'clock exits, straight on or whatever. However, what about in the cases where exits are not standard. I regularly use 2 roundabouts where I enter at 6 o'clock and the straight ahead exit is actually the 3rd exit. What then is the rule - right hand lane for 3rd exit or left hand lane for straightahead ?

Also, what is the rule (is there any) for a minor exit/entry to the roundabout when the entry/exit road isn't even indicated on the traffic signage (eg the 4 roads off are all N roads but the minor is an R road not even mentioned on the roadsign).

**Timbuk2**

thesimpsons wrote: »

the rules on roundabouts all talk about 9o'clock, 12 o'clock exits, straight on or whatever. However, what about in the cases where exits are not standard. I regularly use 2 roundabouts where I enter at 6 o'clock and the straight ahead exit is actually the 3rd exit. What then is the rule - right hand lane for 3rd exit or left hand lane for straightahead ?

Just follow the clockface rule - it nearly always works. If straight ahead is the 3rd exit, then use the left lane! Be wary on any non-typical roundabouts (be wary always!) of people who may think the right lane is correct.

thesimpsons wrote: »

Also, what is the rule (is there any) for a minor exit/entry to the roundabout when the entry/exit road isn't even indicated on the traffic signage (eg the 4 roads off are all N roads but the minor is an R road not even mentioned on the roadsign).

Not sure... I don't think I've seen this. Usually they are indicated as an exit, but it might not necessarily say where it goes to, or they might have All Routes one exit, Local Traffic another exit.

Regardless of the sign, you'd probably treat it as if it was on the sign. Although I can see the difficulty in choosing a lane if you are unfamiliar with the roundabout.

ADIDriving

Left lane is generally the correct position for straight even if it is the third exit.

thesimpsons wrote: »

Also, what is the rule (is there any) for a minor exit/entry to the roundabout when the entry/exit road isn't even indicated on the traffic signage (eg the 4 roads off are all N roads but the minor is an R road not even mentioned on the roadsign).

If the road is there,it is there. So signal and position as if it were a normal exit off the roundabout. Almost ignore the fact that it is not signposted. However, use your knowledge of that road to be aware that many others will not know of it, ignore it or not be taking that turn.

thesimpsons

see attached roundabout 1. If I'm entering at the roundabout at N7 Ennis Road and continuing to N18 Ennis Road it is the 3rd exit. So I should take left lane even though it is 3rd exit which is normally the right hand lane.

the second example would be where coming from N20 and taking 2nd exit to come off at R526 - is this still considered "straight ahead" and left lane even though people who don't know the area will consider it as the 9o'clock exit.

J_R

Hi,

people would have no problem understanding roundabouts if they understood that the exit numbers do not count. It is the POSITION of the exit that dictates what lane to use.

Simply ignore completely what exit number it happens to be, just follow basic rules of the road.

RoTR, if going straight ahead or taking a left turn, stay left. On a roundabout this translates to any exit before or at 12 O'clock - use left lane

RoTR, if turning right - go right, keep right. On a roundabout, translates to if exit after 12 O'clock use right lane.

Exceptions: First exit, irregardless of position stay left.

If the roundabout has dedicated lanes or has lanes which merge and split then there can be no standardised explanation so motorists must follow the signage and lane markings, which override the basic rules.

Forget the exit numbers they are totally, completely, utterly irrelevant (except 1st)

ADIDriving

thesimpsons wrote: »

see attached roundabout 1. If I'm entering at the roundabout at N7 Ennis Road and continuing to N18 Ennis Road it is the 3rd exit. So I should take left lane even though it is 3rd exit which is normally the right hand lane.

If there are two lanes on that road the left hand land is more correct.

the second example would be where coming from N20 and taking 2nd exit to come off at R526 - is this still considered "straight ahead" and left lane even though people who don't know the area will consider it as the 9o'clock exit.

Looking at the map I would not consider this to be 'straight'. It is not physically straight, but more importantly it is not following the same road. The N20 ends at that roundabout, the R526 continues through it. There for if there are two lanes on the approach, the right lane would be more correct.

Terms and conditions apply. This is all subject to road markings. No cars were hurt in the making of these roundabouts (I hope).

ADIDriving

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

people would have no problem understanding roundabouts if they understood that the exit numbers do not count. It is the POSITION of the exit that dictates what lane to use.

Simply ignore completely what exit number it happens to be, just follow basic rules of the road.

RoTR, if going straight ahead or taking a left turn, stay left. On a roundabout this translates to any exit before or at 12 O'clock - use left lane

RoTR, if turning right - go right, keep right. On a roundabout, translates to if exit after 12 O'clock use right lane.

Exceptions: First exit, irregardless of position stay left.

If the roundabout has dedicated lanes or has lanes which merge and split then there can be no standardised explanation so motorists must follow the signage and lane markings, which override the basic rules.

Forget the exit numbers they are totally, completely, utterly irrelevant (except 1st)

Generally true, but not that black and white. (Yet another spanner to throw into the works.)
If you are driving on the 'R123' and the second of three other exits is the same 'R123', but is positioned at 1 o'clock with no road marking, the left of two lanes would still be more correct. 'Straight' can mean 'following the road'.

The rules are simple when the roads are simple. Unfortunately, there are loads of variations. Common sense and observation are what is needed to deal with all the different situations one may come across.

thesimpsons

tks ADIDdriving for clarifying - thats the way I do approach these roundabouts and where there are signposts and roadmarkings things are very simple BUT (as always in Ireland) so many of our roads have worn-off markings, no signpostings, too many road users who just use the left lane for every exit, so many off standard roundabouts or councils (thinks its Mayo) who use road markings to make their roundabouts different to rest of the country.